Damnit ... silver

[Vice]

http://www.commodityonline.com/news...ns-of-gold-1200-tons-of-silver-40594-3-1.html

This was released ten minutes after the closing bell today.

Next week will be crazy.

 

[CoolBlue]

How are you guys doing now?

 

[Mr.Positive]

How are you guys doing now?

Real good. Still up about 150% or so. Hoping this dip is a good one, I'd like to see mid $20's, that would be a great buying opportunity, imo.

 

[Quiksilver]

How are you guys doing now?

That trip to Fiji--payed for entirely with silver profit-taking--was lovely thank you.

I'm heading to South Africa in January, and I will be disappointed if my PM profits between now and then don't cover the return trip.

--

Meanwhile, in the international share market ...

 

[azanon]

Real good. Still up about 150% or so. Hoping this dip is a good one, I'd like to see mid $20's, that would be a great buying opportunity, imo.

You'll be there soon. Just pick your point that you want to jump off the crashing train. I'd prefer to sell at the higher point if i actually owned this disaster of an investment though.

BTW, the pump-and-dumpers sold last April.

 

[Julius_Seizeher]

This is in response to the economics teacher who laughs at the concept of investing in gold or silver. You'll note that this sentiment is shared by nearly every teacher, practitioner and proponent of modern Keynesian economics (the real destroyer of Europe and the US).

Your economics teacher laughs at silver because he does not live in reality. He lives in the ivory tower of Keynesian economics, where reality can be whatever a bureaucrat (or a college professor) deems it to be. But reality can only be evaded at the cost of destruction to those who evade it.

In reality, silver and gold are real--and paper is not. In reality, wealth (and all human values) must be produced, the most basic example of which is a mining company digging gold and silver out of the ground. Paper is a child's fantasy based on the idea that you can magically wish a printing press to represent a valid, earned value; reality says you cannot.

It is for this reason that the value of precious metals appreciate every time the printing presses are turned on--there exists a class of investors who prefer to live in reality, which means: they prefer to take the paper money they are issued and use it to buy something real.

Keynesianism is to economics what astrology is to astronomy. Yet these are the economics that have seduced mainstream intellectuals and bureaucrats the world over, for the reason that the political corollary of Keynesianism is statism. Keynesian economics grant to governments unheard, unreal, irrational powers to regulate interest rates and the value of money at a whim. If you look into it, you will discover that Keynesianism is the economics of fascism, in it's specific and literal definition. It was through economics, not politics, that fascism was smuggled into America--and it was the political left, not the right, who was the smuggler.

 

[iwanttofight]

JP Morgan wasn't that the company that was in the Boiler Room movie with Vin Diesel

 

[Julius_Seizeher]

Increasing the absolute size of the money supply (or any degree of manipulation) is only useful in achieving short run changes in real economic variables like consumer spending. But it begs the question whether cheap credit is really desirable at a time when the average American/British household is leveraged to the hilt.

Monetary growth mainly involves an expansion of bank credit, which augments the supply of loanable funds. It's effectively a subsidy to the banking industry. Either way its a transfer of wealth from lenders to borrowers which actively encourages further borrowing (and discourages savings) through depressing interest rates. The idea is that investment in other productive areas should rise. Therein lies the problem. Investors are so risk averse that all this new money is flowing into typically safe assets like gold.

Although because it takes time for people to adjust to interest rate changes there are real effects. In the long run any interest rate changes trail off and we're ultimately left with higher inflation (too much money chasing too few goods). It's a stall for the inevitable drastic reduction in our living standards which is coming whether we like it or not. Too much jam today means no jam tomorrow. I'm part of a generation where for the first time in a hundred years most people don't think they'll be better off than their parents. That's sad.

Your attitude is both defeatist and irrational. I know, you probably think you're being realistic; you're not.

It is not a crisis of living standards, capitalism is not dying, the factors of production are not going to dissolve.

The issues are debt, paper money and statism. And it is only a matter of time before the media pundits and journalists and bloggers realize what has been crudely obvious to me for some time--this country has been going to the left for 100 years. We have been surrendering our liberty, one inch at a time, to the same collectivist horde that destroys Europe every couple decades or so.

But we have gone so far to the left that we cannot go any further without degrading into some crappy European socialist welfare state. It isn't going to happen here, I'm not sorry to say. This country is getting ready to start a big move back to the right, regardless of what the liberal media says (because no one believes them anymore), and when we do the result is going to be: freedom, liberty, sound money, a drastically reduced government, an exploding productive sector, and an even better quality of life than we've ever known.

You want to lay down and die? It's your choice.

 

[Mr.Positive]

You'll be there soon. Just pick your point that you want to jump off the crashing train. I'd prefer to sell at the higher point if i actually owned this disaster of an investment though.

BTW, the pump-and-dumpers sold last April.

The paper silver pump and dumpers sold, not physical silver. BTW, we already were there. I grabbed a couple of 10 oz bars when silver hit the mid twenties, around $26 an ounce.

Silver is two types of investments. Paper trading, and physically owning the silver. I don't paper trade personally. Paper trading is a short term investment. Physical ownership, is a long-term investment.

I don't count my physical in $ price. I count it in ounces. When the $ price dips, I just buy a little more. Personally, I like these low prices.

I also agree with Danger, and others. All fiat currencies eventually fail. It's by design, Keynesian economics. It's not a matter of 'if', but just a matter of when. It's a game of musical chairs. Keep the music going, and your investments earning more than the currency is being devalued....you are fine. When the music stops though, everyone will be fighting for any chair that's open. Those chairs, are gold and silver. I just choose to get my chair early, before the music stops. It's a small chair, but a chair nonetheless. I'll keep adding to the chair a little at a time.

 

[Mr.Positive]

Sadly, there has been no country that survived the typical lifespan of a usury currency. They all follow the same path..

I strongly urge everyone to read this one simple statement. ^^^ Then, think on it...come back, and read it again.

It's true. Now you know. If you don't believe Danger's statement, research it. If you wish to keep your head in the sand and ignore it, do as you wish.

All it takes is to open your eyes, and do your own research. Then, and only then, you can feel comfortable taking the proper steps to have a happy and safe future.

 

[Mr.Positive]

Mr Positive,

Azanon is just trying to be inflammatory.

What he doesn't realize is that the paltry 3% he earns on his CD's is actually losing value due to the real CPI being well over 6%. Not even counting the tax on those nominal only gains.

Talk about a train-wreck of an investment!

I don't know why he has this personal anger towards silver though.

Azanon,

Let's pretend you went back 50 years and had a quarter in your hand. That quarter was made of silver.

If you invested that quarter in a CD at 3% return, it would be worth $1.10 today.

If you kept that quarter instead, however, it would be worth close to $6 today.

All because of inflation! :yes:

Don't get pissed at silver, get pissed at the idiots printing and spending money (debt).

 

[Poonani Maker]

The dumbest womanly advice on gold/silver: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1V7n3qRRM60 How did she land the reporter job? I kinda feel sorry for her, but then again, she as well as most women in business who don't know d!ck, probably don't even Care about fvcking up because in their minds they never make mistakes. It's all about their makeup and how they Sound, 90% of them.

 

[Konada]

Hey guys,
I got interested in silver and am willing to invest $500 in it. Anything in particular I have to take note of?

I'm sourcing for price graphs of silver over the past few decades and also legit silver bullion companies in Singapore.

 

[Crissco]

Bumping this thread. Going to buy silver this week

 

[metoo]

we're going to collapse into disease, anarchy, cannibalism, not merely socialism. Silver won't help. I buy a bit of gold, because it's 10x as portable as silver. 1/10th oz coins can be cut in half, and still be accepted. Use to buy a bushel of grain, and make porridge, not trade the entire thing for one lousy loaf of bread, like an idiot. Gold wont matter for a yeaar or more, tho, until most are dead and the killing stops.

 

[azanon]

Mr Positive,

Azanon is just trying to be inflammatory.

What he doesn't realize is that the paltry 3% he earns on his CD's is actually losing value due to the real CPI being well over 6%. Not even counting the tax on those nominal only gains.

Talk about a train-wreck of an investment!

Bad guess. I'm in 100% low-cost (Vanguard) stock mutual funds, 40/60 US/Foreign, 1/5th of the foreign is emerging market, and 50% large cap vs. mid-small cap. According to morningstar, my "basic materials" positions is actually approaching 10% overall, so I probably have a decent representation of gold and silver. I conservatively expect my portfolio to produce 6% REAL return over my career (~9% nominal), and possibly much more than that. And I'll do it at a much lower risk level than some ameteur that dumps oversized positions into a very narrow asset class, such as silver. Stocks are the best long-term investment there is; always has been, always will be.

I see Silver is still near a 52-week low. Why isn't everyone excited? You know, you're supposed to get excited when the price is low, not when its high. For some reason, the thread gets active when the prices is high. Ok, sure, It'll probably continue to move towards its long term average return of 0% nominal, but still, buy low, sell high, right?

I'm either trying to be inflammatory, or I'm trying to save some sosuave brothers from losing their a$$ on an investment fad. Don't be so negative, and assume that the latter is true.

* Anyone who doubts the superiority of stocks at least pick up a copy of "Stocks for the Long Run, 4th edition, by Jeremy Siegel". You can read it for free if you google "Stocks for the long run epub" and download it.

 

[azanon]

Now what would a post by Azanon be without cherry picking information?

Tell me Azanon, in your lame attempt at gloating, why did you fail to include this post of mine?

I thought I just responded to your most recent post in the thread. You make it sound like I dug up a post in the middle of the thread.

Keep raving about your 6% real return, and that only assumes that the CPI is actually correct, which anyone who knows their $hit would know that is a truly incorrect number.

Even if you only wanted to talk nominal, stocks absolutely destroy any alternative using any historical measurement. To be clear, I am no genius in saying this. A beginner investor who's only read 2 or 3 books will quickly be clued in that there's stocks, and there's everything else.

You were at least right to hope that I owned CDs. I suspect you won't dare to suggest stocks are a poor investment. I practically dare you to say otherwise.

If you want a real lesson on how things work, try Zeal and his essay on the Century of the Dow. Then you may understand a bit of the reason why stocks and commodities have alternating bull markets every 20 years or so.

Commodities had a recent short lived bull market. No one doubts that. As they say, even the sun shines on a dog's ass some days. Even the worst of investments can have a good year or a good few years. You'll never hear me say otherwise.

But there's really only one choice that's been proven for long-term investing. In my experience, the people that I knew who were out to "make a killing", just ended up getting killed, metaphorically speaking. If there ever was a fad investment trend now, precious metals has no equal.

Oh, and for what it's worth, I am getting VERY excited about reloading my commodity positions. But then if you paid attention in this thread, you would know that I had shorted silver in the high $40's. Taking gains on the way up, and on the way down.

Shorting silver makes about as much sense as investing in it, given it's long-term return that matches inflation. Since there are typically costs involved in investing, your average long-term return should be approximately inflation minus investment costs.

Given that precious metals have no earnings, and no fundamentals to judge like you would a company, the only way to invest in them is using speculation. In the investment world, "speculating" is something that you should try not to do.

 

[azanon]

I promise to not let the thread die though, even as silver moves into the teens and single digits. Ok!

 

[Mr.Positive]

I promise to not let the thread die though, even as silver moves into the teens and single digits. Ok!

Thanks for bumping this thread.

Right now is a great time to buy silver at a stable low, a solid floor. It's jumped up a bit today, but anywhere near the $26 an ounce price is fantastic.

I don't think we'll see sub $26 silver. Every time it goes this low it bounces back up.

Remember, silver is manipulated by the big banks. They make money on it on every move. The little guys, like us, need to take these opportunities to buy it when we can.

Eventually, and this will happen...the banks manipulation will end. Supply and demand guarantee this. It will happen. When that happens, and silver is free to meet it's true market price. Silver will be well over $100 an ounce, maybe 5 times that. Buy it while it's cheap and on sale.

 

[Poonani Maker]

Yesterday morn, I just closed out a ongoing bet started 3 weeks ago placed on the downside (a crash, if you will) in the markets. I was too early. This investment was THE MOST dangerous one could ever think to put their money in in that it only goes up in a catastrophe, like a nuke, a crash, Euro disbanding, etc. Lost 51% before I said, "I can't take it anymore!" and sold yesterday. It was like I was being Murdered each and every day I watched the crazy as5 investment Bleed 14%, 10%, 25% in consecutive days. I was like I was being Sawed, nailed, and butchered by some crazy chainsaw massacre killer, just blood everywhere. Soooooo painful. It wiped out a fifth of my trading account. Reminded me of a Sektor 304 song, just violent blood n' gutted like a pig.

I've finally said that I will never follow my own path again. I will From now on, (I paid for professional help as of Monday evening) Mirror the professional traders to get my fvckin money back. You have to be unbelievably discipline to beat the street, because it is so highly manipulated, by the big boys, by the High Frequency Trader BOTS. You must get in and hold no longer than a week and then get the fvck out! because they can See your stops and they (Goldman Sacs, the big boy investment banks etc) will drive the market down or up to do a "Run on the stops" which creates a "headfake" and then they turn right around and Short! screwing all the retail investors. Then, of course, there's government risk that you've gotta worry about, such as printing more fvcking money to prop up the markets Which Should Go Down! given the bad data all around out there. Political risk, news risk, is so unpredictable, because these crooks can just print money out of thin air.

This is where silver and gold come in. They can only print money out of thin air to fix our problems world-wide. It's certainly Not production and smart new business (so hard for small businesses more than ever to grow up and succeed due to regulations placed upon them by Big business (big business owns our government and get all the tax breaks/laws in their favor).

All they can do Now is print. Therefore, commodities is Not a fvcking fad dude, and will be the only real money left when it all comes down, this Debt bubble, sooner rather than later. QE3 squared ends in December. I suspect then, interest rates will catapult and everything will get extremely more expensive. This economy is not going to experience any REAL growth, just charts and graphs displaying Fake growth. It's all window dressing from here on out. The crooks are in power. The people are weak/stupid. These people would have been guillotined much sooner if they were so blatantly Stealing in the olden days as they are doing today. Wars will come when our people start losing everything, people still aren't losing their lifestyles and those who have are either too weak or still content with having less, but they will have even less soon.

All the money was made for our parents and grandparents. That was the era that an individual could go into the market and improve their wealth by being savy and riding the wave of the 80's and mostly 90s early 2000s. We, from gen x onward have no opportunities to improve our wealth standing quickly unless your family is tied to Goldman Sacs, the big money club people. You have to be Born into being on the right side of insider information.

Speculators are gonna get crushed like I just did. The market doesn't represent reality anymore. The daily volume in the markets is making new record breaking lows all throughout this year and has been falling every since the crash of 2008. Most retail investors have exited this ongoing scam of printing money to window-dress the charts and news stories dictated by Wall Street who pays the press what to write - they both make money on the bogus news stories. They both have insider info. If you're not on the inside, you will lose.

'They' call silver and gold, "Barbaric." They've been manipulating gold and silver (oil too) with raising the margins and outright shorting it (Political risk). We are heading back to "barbaric" times of extreme poverty due to the recklessness of the central banks, the fed, deregulation of big business (anti-trust), etc etc. In barbaric times, only physical assets will matter, not this fake money they keep printing. When fiat collapses (due to wildy out of control debt to the bankers worldwide - determining value of anything cannot be achieved today and in the future), hopefully you will have purchased all the Physical assets you need to purchase in order to survive, because those physical assets (like food) will become more and more pricey up until fiat crumbles like confetti worldwide.