Daily DJ observations

[WestCoaster]

Since I've become a DJ, or at least not an AFC, I've really noticed things I didn't notice before, like AFCism, neg-hits, and our strange societal norms. OK, here are a few observations from last week (if you get bored with this, just move on).

At the ice cream shop, clerk gal (solid looking, nothing incredible, nothing bad either ... nice ta-tas -- OK, Water Tiger, kill me for that comment!) gets neg-hitted by this guy, who really wasn't that clever, he just kind of insulted her for making his friend's coffee too hot. This gal was suddenly star-struck by this guy. Her eyes followed him all the way out the door.

I'm trying to surpress laughter, so I decide to see what happens when I'm really polite, AFC, and nice as I leave. I tell her thanks and am very nice ... she practically ignores me! I was cracking up, this neg-hit stuff really works.

Another story:

On the 4th of July I run into a guy I went to high school with. He's now working for the crappy communications/media company I worked for about 10 years ago ... pay is lousy and he's working half-time and working his brains out. He asks me if I'm married (he's married and has two kids) and I say no, never have been.

He gives me the condescending pat on the back like, "It's OK, son, you'll find someone." I wanted to say, "He dork-wad, I have a better job than you; I'm not on the time clock with my wife and after the fireworks I may go hit it with some friends at the local pub and get back real late. Then again, I might not ... it's up to me! I didn't say that. This guy NEVER dated in high school and I never saw him with a gal ever. So I'm guessing he probably didn't strike gold in the marriage dept.

Since learning about DJism I find it humorous when people act like you have a terminal illness because you're not married!

 

[WaterTiger]

Originally posted by WestCoaster
At the ice cream shop, clerk gal (solid looking, nothing incredible, nothing bad either ... nice ta-tas -- OK, Water Tiger, kill me for that comment!)

Ta-Tas? TA-TA'S??? In the words of the great Erin Brockovich: "They're called B00BS!"

Originally posted by WestCoaster
Since learning about DJism I find it humorous when people act like you have a terminal illness because you're not married!

You think that's tough? Try being a female!
Them: Are you married?
Me: No.
Them: Divorced then?
Me: No.
Them: Ah...kids?
Me: No.
Them: (whispering) Are you gay?
Me: No.
Them: Oh....(confused silence)

 

[Genghis Juan]

WestCoaster,

I think that you are overanalyzing a trivial and meaningless interaction between people. Engaging in C&F at times is good and at times its not. Just because you were polite to the girl at the counter doesn't mean she wasn't interested. She was just going about her job.

I wanted to ask you a question. I remember you were saying that you were dating a girl "off-and-on". I have never found myself in that situation before up until now. What is the nature of the interaction? Is it that the dating pace is random and sporadic with a few weeks going by without contact, and then a return?

Just curious.

WaterTiger,

In your many years of experience, how has the field of available men looking for relationships changed? Has it vastly diminished as you got older, and if so, around what age did you notice this? I know you are a Don Juanette but you analyze the field and are able to see these things.

 

[WestCoaster]

Some answers -- hopefully

Dating off and on, usually for me means more off than on. And usually it means you're going out now and then but dating others, too. So actually you're "dating" in the truest sense, but you're not "relationshipping" if that makes sense.

WaterTiger is right, not being married as you get older means in the eyes of others that you have the plague, a terminal illness, or you're mentally unstable.

Nevermind that the people "judging" you have the worst marriages on this planet, can't wait to ditch their spouse but are locked in financially and with kids, and envy your freedom like nothing else in the world.

* The gal with the ta-tas (sorry WT, college roommate coined them that at a dance many years ago and I can't get it out of my head ... or the gal's ta-tas out of my head) was really neg-hitted bad, it was funny and I really wasn't interested either. Just DJ testing in real life.

 

[WaterTiger]

Originally posted by Genghis Juan
WaterTiger,
In your many years of experience, how has the field of available men looking for relationships changed? Has it vastly diminished as you got older, and if so, around what age did you notice this? I know you are a Don Juanette but you analyze the field and are able to see these things.

I do analyze the hell out of things (it's a Virgo thing) and that's always been my problem.

In my youth (18-23) It wasn't the men available for relationships, it was if I'd give them the time of day. See, I had my life & career ALLLL planned out. I was going to college, moving to NYC and paint book covers for Sci-Fi books. If the guys I met didn't fit into my pre-described plan, then I had no time for him.

In my mid-to late-20's, reality started to settle in (That sucked! ) This is when I noticed that the all the available guys vanished. Even the really nerdy, doofy guys were married to some one. I had to totally change my "Perfect Guy Check List". No man on the planet was going to be what I thought I wanted. Most of my friends were married, having kids, joining the PTA and doing the family thing. I also started seeing those marriages crash & burn.

In my 30's, the market opened up again but they guys were mostly divorced, very bitter, had 2-3 kids and a b!tchy ex-wife. I remember sitting around with my friends ranting about how stupid their husbands were, how their jobs were miserable, the kids were driving them nuts...and they had the gall to ask ME when I was getting married!

Now that I'm over 40, statistics say that I have a better chance of being abducted by aliens than getting married. Oddly enough, there seems to be plenty of guys looking for relationships. Go figure!

 

[Genghis Juan]

Water Tiger,

Its suprising you say that all the available guys seemed to vanish in your mid-to-late 20's. I am assuming you lived in SF, I would think there would be plenty of guys you could meet by chance.

If you were looking for Mr. Right in your mid-to-late 20's, what were the most common places you went to meet these prospects and what were some of the problems the few available men in this age group had?

Did you ever run into a dilemma (probably in your early 20's) where you ran into a guy who was quite probably Mr. Right, but you pushed him away because you got "freaked out" or just wasn't ready, and instead pursued other dudes whom you knew were just good for a short period of time? If so, did you ever check up on the potential Mr. Right's to see what they were up to?

 

[Chrispy]

Originally posted by Genghis Juan


Did you ever run into a dilemma (probably in your early 20's) where you ran into a guy who was quite probably Mr. Right, but you pushed him away because you got "freaked out" or just wasn't ready, and instead pursued other dudes whom you knew were just good for a short period of time? If so, did you ever check up on the potential Mr. Right's to see what they were up to?

It's funny you should mention that. There's a girl who's doing that to someone I know. She's telling him that she's afraid of the relationship because "he knows her so well" - what does that mean? My gut instinct is she's brushing him off, but I'd like a second opinion.

 

[Ebach]

WaterTiger, what used to be your perfect guy? Why is it so hard for you to get into a relationship? There are always guys looking for relationship, same way there are always single women.

If you had your career and everything planned out, how did it work? Did you get rich?

btw, were you looking for women advice to find this message board?

 

[WaterTiger]

Originally posted by Genghis Juan
Water Tiger,

Its suprising you say that all the available guys seemed to vanish in your mid-to-late 20's. I am assuming you lived in SF, I would think there would be plenty of guys you could meet by chance.

If you were looking for Mr. Right in your mid-to-late 20's, what were the most common places you went to meet these prospects and what were some of the problems the few available men in this age group had?

Actually in my 20's I was in Central Florida, (where "dressin' up" means a clean T-shirt & wiping the horse sh!t off your boots) and it was the 80's, so I'm not sure how relevant the information is now. I always hated the bar/club scene and usually met guys at work or at the mall. As for the guys, they had only one mutual problem and that was me. I just wasn't about to hop in their pick-up truck and be their red-neck, beer chugging, trailerpark wife. (EEEEWWW! ) When I did move to SF, my first roommate was gay so most of the guys I met were gay as well. As for the straight men I did meet...let's just say there's lots of very strange people in this City. (How strange you ask? Okay, the last guy I was dating was a physist, 160 IQ, 47 years old, politically active, charming manners, great kisser...He was also on the FBI's "Unibomber" suspect list!) There's also a strong club scene here which bores me to sleep. So the internet is my meeting venue of choice for now.

Originally posted by Chrispy
It's funny you should mention that. There's a girl who's doing that to someone I know. She's telling him that she's afraid of the relationship because "he knows her so well" - what does that mean? My gut instinct is she's brushing him off, but I'd like a second opinion.

My guess is the guy is seeing through her games and she has totally lost power in the relationship. This is scaring the hell out of her because she doesn't trust him and feels vulnerable. If she trusted him it wouldn't matter if he had all the power.

Originally posted by Ebach
WaterTiger, what used to be your perfect guy? Why is it so hard for you to get into a relationship? There are always guys looking for relationship, same way there are always single women.

If you had your career and everything planned out, how did it work? Did you get rich?

btw, were you looking for women advice to find this message board?

Once up on a time ...I had that 217 item check list about my "dream guy". Now I've got it down to 7 "MUST HAVES" and 6 "DEAL BREAKERS". Like I said, reality settled in! No one is perfect, not even a DJ. Perfect doesn't exist.

I never had trouble getting IN a relationship, I have trouble staying in one. I'm one of those sentimental idiots with rose colored glasses that sees all the virtues and none of the faults, and a Loser Radar that is absolutely amazing! While I'm paging through Modern Bride Mr. Right is hitting on the check out girl. When I finally wise up, I'm shattered and sobbing for months. Now if I even THINK he might have ever thought about being a "Bad Boy" I'm gone. Players need not apply!

As for my career plans...I did just fine for myself, but not quite in the way I planned. (You notice my address is SF not NY.) I didn't get rich, but I don't owe anybody anything either. What I have, I bought it with my own money. I've got what I need and most of what I want.

How did I find this board? I put "MEN" and "DATING" into my Yahoo search and got linked here!

 

[Jay Gatsby]

Originally posted by WaterTiger
While I'm paging through Modern Bride Mr. Right is hitting on the check out girl. When I finally wise up, I'm shattered and sobbing for months. Now if I even THINK he might have ever thought about being a "Bad Boy" I'm gone. Players need not apply!

This is a very interesting statement by WaterTiger. Now that she's older and wiser, she expresses revulsion (slightly exaggerated, of course) to the idea of dating a Bad Boy or a Player, even a reformed one. The problem with this perspective is that men have found that it is an absolute necessity for them to adopt certain characteristics of the Bad Boy or Player in order to achieve success with women. Once those characteristics have been adopted and success with women has been achieved, those same men won't -- and in fact can't go back to being the nice guy that WaterTiger clearly seeks at this point in her life.

A possible reason why WaterTiger finds herself wanting men who aren't and never have been Bad Boys or Players is found in her advice to Chrispy, in which she stated that:

My guess is the guy is seeing through her games and she has totally lost power in the relationship.

Furthermore, what WaterTiger perceives as her Mr. Right hitting on the check out girl might simply be a DJ that is engaging in a bit of harmless flirting, perhaps even testing whether he's still attractive to other women while he's with WaterTiger. This type of behavior is no different than that engaged in by women -- even married women -- who are constantly seeking reassurance that they are still attractive to the opposite sex. Such women might argue that they do this because their husbands don't pay them enough attention or give them enough compliments, but I'm more inclined that they just want the ego boost. Supporting my perspective is the common situation where the husbands to such women catch them flirting with the cabana boy, waiter, etc... and they accuse him of being jealous, controlling or insecure.

 

[WaterTiger]

Originally posted by Jay Gatsby

Furthermore, what WaterTiger perceives as her Mr. Right hitting on the check out girl might simply be a DJ that is engaging in a bit of harmless flirting, perhaps even testing whether he's still attractive to other women while he's with WaterTiger. This type of behavior is no different than that engaged in by women -- even married women -- who are constantly seeking reassurance that they are still attractive to the opposite sex. Such women might argue that they do this because their husbands don't pay them enough attention or give them enough compliments, but I'm more inclined that they just want the ego boost. Supporting my perspective is the common situation where the husbands to such women catch them flirting with the cabana boy, waiter, etc... and they accuse him of being jealous, controlling or insecure.

Nice analysis Jay Gatsby!
If you're dating multiple people, then this behavior is perfectly acceptable. If you are dating exclusivly, I have a problem with it.

I see the need for a constant "ego-boost" as low self esteem and a weakness in one's personality. If you need constant reassurance of others to bolster your own self worth, then there is something wrong. And if a woman you are with engages in "harmless flirting", you guys pitch a fit and condem her as an attenion wh0re. The true DJ, as I understand it, would consider this behavior beneath him and AFC. He would find this unacceptable in the women he dates and justifyably dump them.

 

[Jay Gatsby]

I'm not so sure that it is unacceptable in an exclusive relationship. Most exclusive relationships still include a substantial amount of game-playing, just at a different level and for different purposes. For example, there is the textbook question "Honey, do I look fat in this dress?". I'm sure 99.9% of the women who ask that question already know the answer, but are looking for reassurance that they are still attractive. I don't perceive this as being any different than flirting, albeit the source of the reassurance is not from the husband, but from a third party. Both situations demonstrate a degree of insecurity.

At the same time, and as you point out, flirting with members of the opposite sex in the presence of your significant other may be perceived in a negative way. Most people would probably get jealous, while the small minority of emotionally-secure people would consider such behavior disrespectful. If it persists, then the relationship is on its way towards ending.

Finally, and as I pointed out in my initial response, the problem I see with the situation you describe is that it is often a double-standard. Women can engage in harmless flirting, but if men do it, they're "dogs" who can't control themselves. As a general matter, none of us can keep our eyes off of an attractive member of the opposite sex, absent blind love or superhuman mental discipline. Some people will act on their instinctive impulses. I'd like to think that my significant other trusts me not to do so.

 

[WaterTiger]

Originally posted by Jay Gatsby
I'm not so sure that it is unacceptable in an exclusive relationship. Most exclusive relationships still include a substantial amount of game-playing, just at a different level and for different purposes. For example, there is the textbook question "Honey, do I look fat in this dress?". I'm sure 99.9% of the women who ask that question already know the answer, but are looking for reassurance that they are still attractive. I don't perceive this as being any different than flirting, albeit the source of the reassurance is not from the husband, but from a third party. Both situations demonstrate a degree of insecurity.

Perhaps it's that "different level and for different purposes" is where we differ. I agree that there is still "games" going on in any relationship, any any level, at any time. But it's the PURPOSES for the game is where I find a problem. Saying to the waitress: "Hey Sweetheart, if I say pretty please can we get some more mustard?" is nothing that should upset a wife/girlfriend/significant other. Saying:"Wow Joe, this is a great sandwich. Maybe you can show me later how you spread the sauce!" IS NOT acceptable.

Originally posted by Jay Gatsby
Finally, and as I pointed out in my initial response, the problem I see with the situation you describe is that it is often a double-standard. Women can engage in harmless flirting, but if men do it, they're "dogs" who can't control themselves. As a general matter, none of us can keep our eyes off of an attractive member of the opposite sex, absent blind love or superhuman mental discipline. Some people will act on their instinctive impulses. I'd like to think that my significant other trusts me not to do so.

I don't have a problem with harmless flirtation! If th guy I'm with gives an attractive girl a sideways stare and whispers DAMN! under his breath...no worries! I'm cool with that and I don't think he's a dog or a pig or any other farm yard animal. If he yells out a comment on how hot her butt looks, then I will be rather offended. Just as he would be annoyed if I said "Dude! Nice package!" to a passing male.

 

[FratAndDiddy]

As you all know, i have been married 3 times and could also count one relationship as the "4th." After the 3rd divorce, i was a bit ashamed of my terrible wedding bells track record. However, as I observed and listened to many other divorced people thru conversations, i realized that having been married 3 times is not a big deal in the USA anymore. What a shame. When I was a kid, people who had been married and ****-canned that many times was labled a loser, deadbeat, or whatever negative icon society could post on their forehead.

So, to all out there whom have never been married, I wouldn't feel like an alien, although I can understand why. I catch myself having the same reaction when I meet a female in her mid-thirties to mid-forties when they respond with no kids, and never been married. I tend to have thoughts on why they have never taken the big plunge. It doesn't mean a person is not marrying material, it means (in my opinion) that society has taken a flip-flop view on long-term bachelorhood.

On the topic of flirting, all people do it all the time. It's part of life. Some people just don't have any class when they do it. What some people may perceive as a flirt, others may see it as no big deal. What i have noticed thru life so far is that women tend to be better flirts than men. I think they have more practice at it than men.

As far as flirting while with your mate or married other, people do it all the time for reassurance. Hell, its America, and America is now driven by profit. This mentality tells us all to grab what we can while we can, and if you get caught at doing the evil deed, then sorry you for not playing the game correctly.

 

[bbc]

Originally posted by WaterTiger

How did I find this board? I put "MEN" and "DATING" into my Yahoo search and got linked here!

WaterTiger,

I put some search words in google and end up with forum where they praise AFC and encourage people to behave like AFC.
Sadly, most folks there were women.

You are quite a phenomenon here Why did you chose to see
this forum with...more male oriented philosophy?

 

[biker_gixxer]

Originally posted by WestCoaster
Since I've become a DJ, or at least not an AFC, I've really noticed things I didn't notice before,

I noticed quite a few things myself since reading the DJbible and the different threads on here. I'll sit back in a public place and watch guys make complete fools of themselves.

 

[WaterTiger]

Originally posted by bbc
WaterTiger,

I put some search words in google and end up with forum where they praise AFC and encourage people to behave like AFC.
Sadly, most folks there were women.

You are quite a phenomenon here Why did you chose to see
this forum with...more male oriented philosophy?

You've never peeked in a door that said "DO NOT ENTER"?
Where better to get a truer idea of the male mind than on a male dominated website?

Besides, I like to think I add a different perspective to the mix, a little insight into the female mind.