Crossfit

[TheException]

You are obviously a bodybuilder and I respect that completely. However, please don't weigh in advice specifically for max-strength athletes when that isn't your onus or training goal. You won't know as much as someone who has made a career from it. I've chatted to DanZy a lot about fitness, he knows what's up when it comes to my area of specialty. He may not have the degrees like I do, but degrees and knowledge are different if correlated.

Its obvious huh? Your dead wrong.
-I have a 4 yr degree in Exercise Science (from a top US college)
-Nationally certified Personal Trainer through ACSM
-Special background in athletes ranging from college athletes to high school athletes.

The US is light years beyond other countries in fitness and personal training. So....I am actually "qualified" to speak on this topic.

So I am a personal trainer. To elite level athletes in my country. I agree with DanZy.

Nice accomplishment.

I would say this though.....you can have the most impressive resume, but if I were to see you training athletes and you mentioned to them that training with good form is not important....you would not be hired.

Because while sitting on your curl bench it is easy to tout about perfect form, the reality of the matter is this: Every body is different. A good example is the deadlift: Some people like to look up, others forward, one client I have looks DOWN to keep his neck straight!

I dont disagree with this, and wouldnt say that whether you look straight ahead or down is poor form. Id be much more concerned with bending from the hips, chest up, etc.

In fact, there are actually physiological functions you might not have heard of which make it advantaged and even SAFER to lift with "bad" form sometimes.

Why try to lift "safer" with bad form? Teach good form to begin with and you wont have a safety issue.

Back onto Crossfit, I don't like it. Here's why:
1) Bad form for the sake of more reps is repetive strain in a bottle.
2) No specializing.
3) Often lifts stressing a certain area are grouped together in WODS. Ie, cleans, then snatches, the power press. Goodbye rotator cuff.

Id agree with all 3.

The main issue that I had was switch commenting that "you cant lift more than 220lbs with perfect form" and was advocating to use sh1tty form in order to simply lift more weight. Danzy was making a similar claim..."sacrifice form for more weight". The complete opposite is true. Once form starts compromising on lifts, you dont allow the individual to move up in weight.

So my question to you Jack is do you agree with their statement? That form is a secondary priority and lifting heavy weight is first? If so....if an individual is performing heavy squats....and the angle of their back starts leaning forward on their last few reps....you would allow them to add more weight on their next set?

 

[DanZy]

This is so utterly pointless. I said form is important but sometimes you can let your form go a little to get the weight up, additionally people move differently and thus textbook perfect form can be very uncomfortable for some. You clearly didn't read what I wrote, I did not advocate using bad form; just not perfect form every now and then.

You can have all the qualifications in the world but that doesn't mean you know your stuff, especially in the fitness industry. The sh1t taught at PT courses tends to be god awful and totally out of date.

Good luck producing any decent strength athletes if you never let them move up just because their form isn't perfect. There's a reason professional oly and powerlifters allow their form to be imperfect every now and then to get the weight up.

Just with regards to the question you threw at Jack: You do realise that many people, typically taller athletes, tend to lean forward when squatting so as to keep the weight in the optimal position?

 

[Jack Wealthy]

Before I get into this, you may or may not be multilingual- I'll refrain from making inference based guesses on you character that may shock me- but you can read translations of the Eastern European strength journals. I read about the benefits of vitamin C for fat loss in one. This was an article from the early 2000's, which Charles Poliquin and other top (American) strength coaches have just seemed to uncover recently. Other regurgitated principles include 5x5 from Bulgaria, Milk squats from Russia and Escalating Density Training from the same. Arguably the greatest gains to the industry have actually come from Eastern Europe and Japan, then been restudied in America. I follow the former two, because I'm not bias towards the research of any culture so long as the methodology is sound.

Back on topic, before I continue: I take the same view of DanZy in that I don't think form is paramount 100% over function. That is ridiculous to me, I used to compete as an athlete and I train athletes. I know that makes no sense.

See, Jimmy should use text-book (for him) form 99%of the time. however, after five years of lifting, when doing a very heavy powerlift, Jimmy may instinctively shift form. No, not shape shift- just change his execution. The reason for this is the same as your reason for not doing it: safety.

The problem with not being willing to adapt is this: Our only physical advantage in the animal kingdom is adaptability. Say dexterity then look at a monkeys limbs.

How is it more safe to use slightly different form? Well, usually intra-abdominal pressure play a part. Ever seen someone pink sock? They usually have textbook form. Unfortunately. See, their body wanted to hunch a little to keep it in. In fact, my client- black belt in Aikido- once said to me he saw his best friend in hospital after pink socking. He said to him "My back wanted to curl but I wouldn't let it." Then his organs fell out his ass. He can never lift again.

Another good example is the squat. No flat feet? Well, someone with the congenital condition actually has superior support in that position. Arches in the shoes would lead to faulty knee+hip lines and severe instability.

If you need more than three examples, please realize I could go on all day. This isn't about specifics, it is the vague concept.

Sometimes, picture perfect form doesn't matter. Good technique and safety do.

 

[TheException]

If you need more than three examples, please realize I could go on all day. This isn't about specifics, it is the vague concept.

Sometimes, picture perfect form doesn't matter. Good technique and safety do.

What a contrary statement^

Dont want more examples.....I want you to answer the questions.

1.) What is the number 1 priority for you as a trainer.....heavy weight or form? Which of those two is more important?

2.) If form was compromised on a set of squats and the individual wanted to add weight on their next set.....would you be ok with that?

Now you keep using the words "perfect form" and thats not exactly what im saying here. Sure.....it might not be "textbook" but to suggest that an individual can keep moving up in weight or worse....that a trainer would let them, when their form is sh1tty is unprofessional and amateur. Looking forward to you answers for the two questions above.

 

[TheStig]

It never occurred to me before that a pink sock could happen, but knowing that it has truly scares the sh1t out of me.

 

[Jack Wealthy]

What a contrary statement^
No no friend, good form is not "perfect" form, good form is safe form. Perfect form is inhibiting, intellectual and not instinctual. It's great in the lab though, where all people are figures.

Dont want more examples.....I want you to answer the questions.

1.) What is the number 1 priority for you as a trainer.....heavy weight or form? Which of those two is more important?
That's a close minded question. It can't be correctly answered within those parametres, because neither A nor B is priority. I guess if I had to, I would say form, but not form for the sake of form. Form for the sake of the exercise.

2.) If form was compromised on a set of squats and the individual wanted to add weight on their next set.....would you be ok with that?

That depends what you mean by if form was compromised. Of course if it became dangerous I would stop them. If it was just a different form, to lift a heavier weight, no because I'm not a spoil sport. That's how weights work.

Bold answers.

 

[speed dawg]

So I am a personal trainer. To elite level athletes in my country.

I love these 'qualifying' phrases. Why not just let your message content speak for itself?

Before I get into this, you may or may not be multilingual- I'll refrain from making inference based guesses on you character that may shock me- but you can read translations of the Eastern European strength journals. I read about the benefits of vitamin C for fat loss in one. This was an article from the early 2000's, which Charles Poliquin and other top (American) strength coaches have just seemed to uncover recently. Other regurgitated principles include 5x5 from Bulgaria, Milk squats from Russia and Escalating Density Training from the same. Arguably the greatest gains to the industry have actually come from Eastern Europe and Japan, then been restudied in America. I follow the former two, because I'm not bias towards the research of any culture so long as the methodology is sound.

I'd disagree. I'd say the U.S. is way ahead of Eastern Europe and Japan. That's why people like Arnold come here to train. Who knows where it all started, and who really cares.

 

[TheException]

That's a close minded question. It can't be correctly answered within those parametres, because neither A nor B is priority. I guess if I had to, I would say form, but not form for the sake of form. Form for the sake of the exercise.

It can be answered correctly. You just did. Form not for the sake of exercise....form for the sake of safety.

That depends what you mean by if form was compromised. Of course if it became dangerous I would stop them. If it was just a different form, to lift a heavier weight, no because I'm not a spoil sport. That's how weights work.

I mean exactly as stated....form compromising....as in full range of motion cannot be achieved, muscle imbalanced overcompensate for weak muscles, incorrect/unsafe form in order to lift weight,etc.

From the answers you provided me....then why do you agree with Danzy who said

occasionally form can be sacrificed to get the weight up. Try smashing a new max deadlift whilst keeping perfect form, not going to happen?

You contradict yourself.

 

[DanZy]

Dude you have textbook knowledge but it it seems like you have zero real world experience.

 

[MartinARMT]

So I did crossfit for a little over 6 weeks. I stopped because I moved to a new state. I guess I'll give a review.

First I am no way new to oly lifting or lifting in general. I am in no way an expert but I have been lifting since I was a teenager. Second the gym I was at had an actual oly lifting coach. Form was always first priority.

Pros
Lots of compound lifts no isolation lifts.
For the most part wods are well structured but I believe it is due to which program is uses.
The workouts are intense and varied.

Cons
Doing a ridiculous amount of reps sometimes
Workouts could use more barbell lifts instead of bodyweight movements.

All in all iI enjoyed crossfit. If I happen to find a gym I like I'll probably do it again.

 

[synergy1]

As someone who plays sports and works out for the purpose of becoming better at said sport, Crossfit came into my crosshairs in about 2009. Prior to that, I had done lifting, and than training for rugby using Olympic lifts. Thinking I was in good shape, most of the crossfit workouts as prescribed were simply too much. I scaled the workouts, or outright replaced some of the routines with sport specific ones of equivalent difficulty. The result was obvious both on my physique, and how good I became at the sport. Overall Crossfit for me ( at a regular gym doing it on my own) was a success story.

Crossfit started becoming a fad only a few years ago. The workouts have gradually gotten harder, if not impossible to do. The comments/ posts of people either online or at a gym further exemplified this. Most people lie about what they lift in order to get a higher rank on the daily WOD board. For example, one of my friends at his gym had to find their 1 RM for deadlifts. His wasn't too great, something sub 300 and when he was done, he offered to unload the bar for the next older out of shape women who was there. She declined the offer and stacked weight on. After one failed feeble attempt of moving the bar, she went over to the WOD board and wrote that she pulled a 300+ lb deadlift.

And herein lies the problem with the fad of crossfit. Its a bunch of pretenders who do it, lie about it, and get nothing out of it. With the cycle of lies that propagate, the workouts only get harder and harder. Now you have workouts that require pulling 350 lb deadlifts, 100 pullups, and running 5 miles just to warm up! Of course every blow hard says they complete these types of workouts RX ( as prescribed) Bull ****.

And as others have said, its expensive as fvck. 200 dollars per month at a gym usually.

In conclusion, I believe the idea coupled with the right dedication and correct scaling of workouts will benefit you. It has worked for me. But overall the culture, and stupidity of most ( not all) participants makes Crossfit today an abhorrent activity.

 

[eli77]

I for one love crossfit .i live in miami where it is big.Pros?It get you fit fast.It also has some of the best looking girls I have seen fit bu no that manly.Cons it will have to be the certification process .I also belive mor gyms should have people use kettlebells.Another flaw it is expensive but I guess there is a reson for that.But is not a fad and it is here to stay for sure!!