Critique my diet & routine

[Kirro]

How's it going guys....I'm just looking for a few pointers suggestions my current diet routine.(looking especially for Fuglydude)

I usually work an evening shift til midnight so I get 8-9 hours & usually wake up around 10am or so.

Meal 1(1 scoop gold standard whey protein, 1 scoop gold standard casein protein).

I workout(bus ride is about 20-30 mins to & from)

Meal 2(2 scoops gold standard whey protein)

Meal 3 - 3 slices turkey breast on 1 slice of whole wheat bread(3 if its a weightlifting day) with 4-5 egg whites 1 yolk.

Meal 4 - 3-5 pieces of fish/chicken/beef w/ veggies(usually cabbage, spinach, lettuce, carrots or tomatoes)

Meal 5 - same as 4

Meal 6 - same as 4.

Meal 7 - 2 scoops casein. (protein before bed)

Workout routine.

Monday(Legs) - Lunges(with dumbbells), Squats, Deadlifts, Calf raises. (thinking of adding hang cleans & stiff legged squats).

Tuesday - 20 min interval cardio. 5 mins at 60%, 2 mins at 80% 1 min at 90% 10 mins at 80% 2 mins at 90-100%

Wednesday(Back & Chest) - Wide grip pull ups, chin ups, Dumbbell Row, Incline Bench Press, Flat Bench Press, Pec Fly, Push ups.

Thursday - same as Tuesday

Friday(Shoulders, Triceps & Biceps) - Shoulder press(with dumbbells), Delt front raise, Delt side raise, Delt rear raise, Dips, kickbacks, tricep press(not sure on the name), standing pronated bicep curls, standing alternating hammer curls.

I work abs on all weightlifting days.

Stats.

Age - 20
Race - Afro Caribbean(Black)
Height - (between 5'10 & 6ft)
Weight - 199lbs
Body fat% - 15%

Where I was - I used to always be a rather skinny kid, around 17 I became a bit bigger & was slender with slight definition, coming to the US I ate a ton of crap & sleep a lot(due to some personal issues), then I became skinny fat.

Where I am - No longer skinny fat, I can see ghost abs, I have a naturally wide back & well built shoulders.

Where I wanna be - I want to be balanced, I want great abs but with decent muscle mass on my shoulders, chest, back & arms. I have pretty good thighs but a little more mass & definition would make them perfect. Beyond making getting laid a lot easier, I want to look in the mirror & impress myself.

You have the floor guys....fire away.

 

[Kirro]

bump

 

[Pimp-sicle]

How's it going guys....I'm just looking for a few pointers suggestions my current diet routine.(looking especially for Fuglydude)

I usually work an evening shift til midnight so I get 8-9 hours & usually wake up around 10am or so.

Meal 1(1 scoop gold standard whey protein, 1 scoop gold standard casein protein).

I workout(bus ride is about 20-30 mins to & from)

Meal 2(2 scoops gold standard whey protein)

Meal 3 - 3 slices turkey breast on 1 slice of whole wheat bread(3 if its a weightlifting day) with 4-5 egg whites 1 yolk.

Meal 4 - 3-5 pieces of fish/chicken/beef w/ veggies(usually cabbage, spinach, lettuce, carrots or tomatoes)

Meal 5 - same as 4

Meal 6 - same as 4.

Meal 7 - 2 scoops casein. (protein before bed)

Workout routine.

Monday(Legs) - Lunges(with dumbbells), Squats, Deadlifts, Calf raises. (thinking of adding hang cleans & stiff legged squats).

Tuesday - 20 min interval cardio. 5 mins at 60%, 2 mins at 80% 1 min at 90% 10 mins at 80% 2 mins at 90-100%

Wednesday(Back & Chest) - Wide grip pull ups, chin ups, Dumbbell Row, Incline Bench Press, Flat Bench Press, Pec Fly, Push ups.

Thursday - same as Tuesday

Friday(Shoulders, Triceps & Biceps) - Shoulder press(with dumbbells), Delt front raise, Delt side raise, Delt rear raise, Dips, kickbacks, tricep press(not sure on the name), standing pronated bicep curls, standing alternating hammer curls.

I work abs on all weightlifting days.

Stats.

Age - 20
Race - Afro Caribbean(Black)
Height - (between 5'10 & 6ft)
Weight - 199lbs
Body fat% - 15%

Where I was - I used to always be a rather skinny kid, around 17 I became a bit bigger & was slender with slight definition, coming to the US I ate a ton of crap & sleep a lot(due to some personal issues), then I became skinny fat.

Where I am - No longer skinny fat, I can see ghost abs, I have a naturally wide back & well built shoulders.

Where I wanna be - I want to be balanced, I want great abs but with decent muscle mass on my shoulders, chest, back & arms. I have pretty good thighs but a little more mass & definition would make them perfect. Beyond making getting laid a lot easier, I want to look in the mirror & impress myself.

You have the floor guys....fire away.

1) What's your goal? You say you wanted to balanced, but the reality is your either trying to add mass or your trying to cut weight, although if your into fasting you can accomplish both based on your macros and consistency.

2) Pre-work meal is imbalanced, you need CARBS to supply energy for your workout, your just guzzling protein powder. On training days your biggest carb meal should be your post workout meal OR your pre-workout meal. Also eat a good portion of carbs for breakfast to break the catabolic cycle your body goes into quickly upon waking. Taper carbs the rest of the day, but use bf % and the mirror to judge your progress on that.

3) Post-work out meal is also imbalanced: your not going to grow by just pounding protein. You will repair muscle tissue, but when your too low on carbs and fat, protein gets used as a primary energy source in glycogen production, not a good place to be. You will be dragging @ss through your work outs and risk over-training, injury and burnout.

4) Why are you eating 7 meals a day? Esp considering how low calorie some of those meals are? I hope you aren't doing that because you believe that your metabolism will speed up if you eat smaller meals throughout the day? That is just a flat out myth. The reason most eat 5-6 meals a day is when they are BULKING and can't manage to eat such large meals, its easier to break it up into smaller sizes. Its all about calories in vs calories out, with a little bit a smart sense to make sure your getting proper pre and post-workout nutrition, which right now your not.

5) What are your maintenance calories? How many grams of protein are you eating each day? How many carbs and how much fat? If your guessing on this, you will not reach your goal, esp when you try to cut into single digit bf.


6) Training looks alright, the interval training will help shed bf, and I like that your not going crazy on weights 6x a week like some noobs.


----------------

Its really comes down to diet, and right now you haven't been clear on your goals, so I can't give you advice on how to change your diet, except for the fact that your meals are very imbalanced.

Give us more details




PIMP

 

[Kirro]

1) What's your goal? You say you wanted to balanced, but the reality is your either trying to add mass or your trying to cut weight, although if your into fasting you can accomplish both based on your macros and consistency.

2) Pre-work meal is imbalanced, you need CARBS to supply energy for your workout, your just guzzling protein powder. On training days your biggest carb meal should be your post workout meal OR your pre-workout meal. Also eat a good portion of carbs for breakfast to break the catabolic cycle your body goes into quickly upon waking. Taper carbs the rest of the day, but use bf % and the mirror to judge your progress on that.

3) Post-work out meal is also imbalanced: your not going to grow by just pounding protein. You will repair muscle tissue, but when your too low on carbs and fat, protein gets used as a primary energy source in glycogen production, not a good place to be. You will be dragging @ss through your work outs and risk over-training, injury and burnout.

4) Why are you eating 7 meals a day? Esp considering how low calorie some of those meals are? I hope you aren't doing that because you believe that your metabolism will speed up if you eat smaller meals throughout the day? That is just a flat out myth. The reason most eat 5-6 meals a day is when they are BULKING and can't manage to eat such large meals, its easier to break it up into smaller sizes. Its all about calories in vs calories out, with a little bit a smart sense to make sure your getting proper pre and post-workout nutrition, which right now your not.

5) What are your maintenance calories? How many grams of protein are you eating each day? How many carbs and how much fat? If your guessing on this, you will not reach your goal, esp when you try to cut into single digit bf.


6) Training looks alright, the interval training will help shed bf, and I like that your not going crazy on weights 6x a week like some noobs.


----------------

Its really comes down to diet, and right now you haven't been clear on your goals, so I can't give you advice on how to change your diet, except for the fact that your meals are very imbalanced.

Give us more details




PIMP

1) Me Currently - http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k620/rudebwoy21/002.jpg?t=1302933899

Where I wanna be in 6 months(black version of this guy) - http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k620/rudebwoy21/John-Morrison.gif?t=1302933999

Where I wanna be in a year or beyond(black version of this sort of) - http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k620/rudebwoy21/JinKazamaT6.jpg?t=1302934076

2) Okay got it, any meal suggestions? If I am to eat a heavy breakfast how long should I wait until I train? I usually don't have that much time as I have to rush back home before work.

3) Hmmm....noted, I wanna avoid all of that bad stuff, meal suggestions?

4) Ouch....how do I fix it?

5) Convicted & guilty, I really have no clear idea the amount of calories, carbs, fat & I have a vague idea of how much protein I'm taking in..(somewhere between 290-340g). The entire idea of calculating my caloric intake seems complicated & time consuming.

6) Good to know I'm doing something right.

Details on my goals are in reply number 1. Fire away.

 

[Kirro]

Come on guys, really in need of some guidance here & have posted all the info I possibly could.

 

[Pimp-sicle]

1) Me Currently - http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k620/rudebwoy21/002.jpg?t=1302933899

Where I wanna be in 6 months(black version of this guy) - http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k620/rudebwoy21/John-Morrison.gif?t=1302933999

Where I wanna be in a year or beyond(black version of this sort of) - http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k620/rudebwoy21/JinKazamaT6.jpg?t=1302934076

2) Okay got it, any meal suggestions? If I am to eat a heavy breakfast how long should I wait until I train? I usually don't have that much time as I have to rush back home before work.

3) Hmmm....noted, I wanna avoid all of that bad stuff, meal suggestions?

4) Ouch....how do I fix it?

5) Convicted & guilty, I really have no clear idea the amount of calories, carbs, fat & I have a vague idea of how much protein I'm taking in..(somewhere between 290-340g). The entire idea of calculating my caloric intake seems complicated & time consuming.

6) Good to know I'm doing something right.

Details on my goals are in reply number 1. Fire away.

---------------------

Kirro: Its great you have goals and wanting to look like Ryu from Street Fighter is ambitious haha, but you can dramatically change your body once you dial in your diet and training, its all about doing what works for you, not following some standardized prescription you read online or elsewhere.

Throw away your current meal program it sucks! haha First thing you want to do is calculate your maintenance calories. If you don't know how to do this, I suggest Googling the info. You will likely find a variety of formulas, but like anything else the important thing to do is pick one formula and work off this consistently so you have a reference point and can easily make adjustments if your not seeing results.

-Secondly start tracking your bf, I'd say based on your picture your in the 13-15% range, you can look impressive quick if you can shed some body fat and put on a bit of muscle mass. Again there's a wide variety of ways to do this, I use calipers, not the most accurate, but consistency is the important point here so you can figure out if your headed in the right direction.

Once you calculate your maintenance calories you will want to make adjustments to them based on your goal. For example, my maintenance calories are 2,400 a day. So if I want to gain I will add calories to this, if I want to lean out I will subtract calories from this. A typical set up for me might look something like this:

Monday: 2800 calories Workout Day

Tuesday: 2400 calories Off Day

Wednesday: 3000 calories Workout Day -I slightly increase calories on legs day

Thursday: 2400 calories Off Day

Friday: 2800 calories Workout Day

Saturday: 2400 calories Off Day

Sunday: 2800 calories Workout Day


**Key Points**

1) I always make sure to get 1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight. Some guys go waaaaaay too crazy on the protein intake, not realizing that excess calories will turn into body fat period. Aim for 1 gram of protein per lb of bodyweight, if you are feeling excessively sore 2-3 days after a workout, then you might want to bump up your protein intake since that is a clear sign that your not recovering from your workouts.

2) Fat is an often ignored macronutrient. Get at least 0.5 grams of fat per lb of bodyweight. The balance of your calories should come from carbs.


3) If you don't know how to calculate these ratios, here's an example:

2,800 calories Current Weight: 161 lbs

Protein is 4 calories per gram: So I'm aiming for at least one gram of protein per lb of bodyweight. So 161 grams x 4 = 644 calories.

Fat is 9 calories per gram: If I start out at 0.5 grams of fat per lb of bodyweight I will be at: 161 grams x 0.5 = 81 grams. 81 x 9 = 729 calories

So adding 729 + 644 = 1,373 calories. Subtracting this from my daily total of 2,800 = 1,427 calories. This is my balance for carbs.

So to get the number of grams we do the opposite of what we were doing above. Carbs are 4 calories per gram, so divide 1,427 by 4 = 357 grams.

So my breakdown would be 161 of protein, 357 grams of carbs and 81 grams of fat.

Its important to note this would be for BULKING for my specific needs. Typically I would run this for 2 weeks, then re-measure body fat, weight and strength gains in the gym. As long as I'm not gaining too much fat, I would then slightly bump up calories. If I was gaining too much fat, I would slightly reduce calories.

When I say "slightly," to me that means about 150-200 calories either way.


Now there's a lot of other myths you hear and one that you seem to believe is that eating carbs in the evening will turn into fat. That is COMPLETE HORSE-SH%T! Excess calories makes you fat, remember that!

Carbs at night gets a bad wrap because most people BINGE EAT late at night. If your eating clean foods and not going over your portions you will be fine. Further more when you look at your current meal set up, you eat only veggies from the early afternoon all the way til night. Then you wake up the next morning and eat ZERO CARBS, then workout! Talk about a recipe for disaster and frustration!

If your first meal of the day is your pre-workout meal, have at least a small amount of carbs, something like a bagel, some oatmeal or some potatoes. Again, the specific amount will depend on your maintenance calories, the specific day and your goals. I didn't realize that your first meal was your pre-workout meal in my first reply, so don't eat a "heavy breakfast" if you keep your training in the morning. Something moderate like 300-400 calories would be ideal. A protein shake with some oats blended in is perfect.

As far as how long to wait after eating. It honestly doesn't really matter since this is not a huge meal. But if you do a shake with oats, I'd say wait 15-20 minutes. Which might be the bus ride over to the gym.

And I ASSURE YOU that your not taking in 290-340 grams of protein currently! One protein shake is anywhere from 25-40 grams depending on the protein you use and how many scoops. 340 grams would be the equivalent of 8-9 protein shakes a day with 2 scoops just so you get the idea.


Other things note to forget about:


Water intake!! Drink water between your meals, and lots of it. Water intake will keep you lean, help you look dry and stop you from having a bloated face due to dehydration.

Take a multi-vitamin, most of the are crap, but most don't get all the nutrients they need strictly through diet, so get on a daily multi. I like Orange Triad or any of the Men's multi's from GNC....(which is the only thing I'd ever buy from the rip off store! LOL)

I like to taper my carbs and cycle my carbs.

Tapering Carbs: On NON-TRAINING days I typically eat a huge breakfast, lots of everything. From there I decrease the amount of carbs per meal while keeping fat higher. Everything is a balance, so if you are eating 200 less calories on non-training days as per the example above and you eat less carbs on these non-training days, you need to increase something to counter the decrease in carbs. Fat is the best source because it keeps you full longer.

So in summary: Training Days: More carbs, less fat, protein 1 gram per lb of bodyweight

Non-training Days: Less carbs, more fat, protein the same


You will have to adjust and tweak this several times as you progress to see how your body responds because everyone is different.

Some dudes need to eat 4500 calories and 500 grams of carbs to gain because their metabolism is super fast.

Some guys stare at carbs and gain..... so figure out where you stand by playing around with these ratios.


Alright, that's a lot of info, might be confusing so read through it and let me know if you have any questions or something doesn't make sense.






PIMP

 

[Kirro]

---------------------

Kirro: Its great you have goals and wanting to look like Ryu from Street Fighter is ambitious haha, but you can dramatically change your body once you dial in your diet and training, its all about doing what works for you, not following some standardized prescription you read online or elsewhere.

Throw away your current meal program it sucks! haha First thing you want to do is calculate your maintenance calories. If you don't know how to do this, I suggest Googling the info. You will likely find a variety of formulas, but like anything else the important thing to do is pick one formula and work off this consistently so you have a reference point and can easily make adjustments if your not seeing results.

-Secondly start tracking your bf, I'd say based on your picture your in the 13-15% range, you can look impressive quick if you can shed some body fat and put on a bit of muscle mass. Again there's a wide variety of ways to do this, I use calipers, not the most accurate, but consistency is the important point here so you can figure out if your headed in the right direction.

Once you calculate your maintenance calories you will want to make adjustments to them based on your goal. For example, my maintenance calories are 2,400 a day. So if I want to gain I will add calories to this, if I want to lean out I will subtract calories from this. A typical set up for me might look something like this:

Monday: 2800 calories Workout Day

Tuesday: 2400 calories Off Day

Wednesday: 3000 calories Workout Day -I slightly increase calories on legs day

Thursday: 2400 calories Off Day

Friday: 2800 calories Workout Day

Saturday: 2400 calories Off Day

Sunday: 2800 calories Workout Day


**Key Points**

1) I always make sure to get 1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight. Some guys go waaaaaay too crazy on the protein intake, not realizing that excess calories will turn into body fat period. Aim for 1 gram of protein per lb of bodyweight, if you are feeling excessively sore 2-3 days after a workout, then you might want to bump up your protein intake since that is a clear sign that your not recovering from your workouts.

2) Fat is an often ignored macronutrient. Get at least 0.5 grams of fat per lb of bodyweight. The balance of your calories should come from carbs.


3) If you don't know how to calculate these ratios, here's an example:

2,800 calories Current Weight: 161 lbs

Protein is 4 calories per gram: So I'm aiming for at least one gram of protein per lb of bodyweight. So 161 grams x 4 = 644 calories.

Fat is 9 calories per gram: If I start out at 0.5 grams of fat per lb of bodyweight I will be at: 161 grams x 0.5 = 81 grams. 81 x 9 = 729 calories

So adding 729 + 644 = 1,373 calories. Subtracting this from my daily total of 2,800 = 1,427 calories. This is my balance for carbs.

So to get the number of grams we do the opposite of what we were doing above. Carbs are 4 calories per gram, so divide 1,427 by 4 = 357 grams.

So my breakdown would be 161 of protein, 357 grams of carbs and 81 grams of fat.

Its important to note this would be for BULKING for my specific needs. Typically I would run this for 2 weeks, then re-measure body fat, weight and strength gains in the gym. As long as I'm not gaining too much fat, I would then slightly bump up calories. If I was gaining too much fat, I would slightly reduce calories.

When I say "slightly," to me that means about 150-200 calories either way.


Now there's a lot of other myths you hear and one that you seem to believe is that eating carbs in the evening will turn into fat. That is COMPLETE HORSE-SH%T! Excess calories makes you fat, remember that!

Carbs at night gets a bad wrap because most people BINGE EAT late at night. If your eating clean foods and not going over your portions you will be fine. Further more when you look at your current meal set up, you eat only veggies from the early afternoon all the way til night. Then you wake up the next morning and eat ZERO CARBS, then workout! Talk about a recipe for disaster and frustration!

If your first meal of the day is your pre-workout meal, have at least a small amount of carbs, something like a bagel, some oatmeal or some potatoes. Again, the specific amount will depend on your maintenance calories, the specific day and your goals. I didn't realize that your first meal was your pre-workout meal in my first reply, so don't eat a "heavy breakfast" if you keep your training in the morning. Something moderate like 300-400 calories would be ideal. A protein shake with some oats blended in is perfect.

As far as how long to wait after eating. It honestly doesn't really matter since this is not a huge meal. But if you do a shake with oats, I'd say wait 15-20 minutes. Which might be the bus ride over to the gym.

And I ASSURE YOU that your not taking in 290-340 grams of protein currently! One protein shake is anywhere from 25-40 grams depending on the protein you use and how many scoops. 340 grams would be the equivalent of 8-9 protein shakes a day with 2 scoops just so you get the idea.


Other things note to forget about:


Water intake!! Drink water between your meals, and lots of it. Water intake will keep you lean, help you look dry and stop you from having a bloated face due to dehydration.

Take a multi-vitamin, most of the are crap, but most don't get all the nutrients they need strictly through diet, so get on a daily multi. I like Orange Triad or any of the Men's multi's from GNC....(which is the only thing I'd ever buy from the rip off store! LOL)

I like to taper my carbs and cycle my carbs.

Tapering Carbs: On NON-TRAINING days I typically eat a huge breakfast, lots of everything. From there I decrease the amount of carbs per meal while keeping fat higher. Everything is a balance, so if you are eating 200 less calories on non-training days as per the example above and you eat less carbs on these non-training days, you need to increase something to counter the decrease in carbs. Fat is the best source because it keeps you full longer.

So in summary: Training Days: More carbs, less fat, protein 1 gram per lb of bodyweight

Non-training Days: Less carbs, more fat, protein the same


You will have to adjust and tweak this several times as you progress to see how your body responds because everyone is different.

Some dudes need to eat 4500 calories and 500 grams of carbs to gain because their metabolism is super fast.

Some guys stare at carbs and gain..... so figure out where you stand by playing around with these ratios.


Alright, that's a lot of info, might be confusing so read through it and let me know if you have any questions or something doesn't make sense.






PIMP

Now to be accurate its Jin Kazama from Tekken 6 As I type this I'm googling info on the maintenance calorie thing.

I really appreciate you taking the time to write out such a detailed reply & I thank you for that.

I'm wondering if I'm going to have to buy any apparatus to properly weigh & calculate my calorie intake. I'm kind of intimidated by the idea of counting calories but if that's what it takes to reach my best form I'm willing to do it.

You gave your daily calorie intake but could you also post what you eat? Also could you suggest what kind of rep/system I should use when I lift, I hear a variety of different things.

You've seen my pic & I've given my current height & weight, in conjunction with my goals what would be ideal?

I'm also a very impatient person & I wanted to start seeing decent progress by July but it seems that may not be a reality.

Again thank you.

 

[cuzza]

Your routine looks good, ensure there's progression on the main lifts and you'll be set.

Big goals for yourself, but doable in time... though potentially more than you're aiming for. You look to have the potential for a solid build, good luck.

I'm no nutritional expert so can't really help you out there.

 

[Kirro]

Your routine looks good, ensure there's progression on the main lifts and you'll be set.

Big goals for yourself, but doable in time... though potentially more than you're aiming for. You look to have the potential for a solid build, good luck.

I'm no nutritional expert so can't really help you out there.

Thanks, I'm going to need every bit of luck I can get to make this happen.

EDIT - Okay did the calculations on freedieting.com(don't know in what esteem you guys would hold that to) & I have some more info.

My daily calorie needs = 2832

That's 318g(1272 cal) of Carbs, 212g(850 cal) of Protein & 78g(708 cal) of Fat per day.

So if I eat 6 meals per day thats 53g of carbs, 35.3g of protein & 13g of fat per meal.

My waist is 34 inches.
Body fat - 13.25%
Fat Weight - 26.4 lbs
Lean Weight - 172.6 lbs

I want the super abs(8 pack), I wanna shave off 2-3 more inches off my waist & get down into the single digits. How do I do this without having lose muscle mass as well?

Used the weight gain calculator on the same site. Here's what it says.

Daily Calorie Intake: 3427


GRAMS PER MEAL
CARBOHYDRATES - 63.5g

PROTEIN - 36.3g

FATS - 19g

GRAMS PER DAY
C - 381g

P - 218g

F - 114g

The problem I have is, to eventually look anything like Jin(there's a poster here on SS who has a similar build), I have no clue how much I'd weigh so I have no clear goal weight in mind but for sure I want to look ripped.

 

[Pimp-sicle]

Thanks, I'm going to need every bit of luck I can get to make this happen.

EDIT - Okay did the calculations on freedieting.com(don't know in what esteem you guys would hold that to) & I have some more info.

My daily calorie needs = 2832

That's 318g(1272 cal) of Carbs, 212g(850 cal) of Protein & 78g(708 cal) of Fat per day.

So if I eat 6 meals per day thats 53g of carbs, 35.3g of protein & 13g of fat per meal.

My waist is 34 inches.
Body fat - 13.25%
Fat Weight - 26.4 lbs
Lean Weight - 172.6 lbs

I want the super abs(8 pack), I wanna shave off 2-3 more inches off my waist & get down into the single digits. How do I do this without having lose muscle mass as well?

Used the weight gain calculator on the same site. Here's what it says.

Daily Calorie Intake: 3427


GRAMS PER MEAL
CARBOHYDRATES - 63.5g

PROTEIN - 36.3g

FATS - 19g

GRAMS PER DAY
C - 381g

P - 218g

F - 114g

The problem I have is, to eventually look anything like Jin(there's a poster here on SS who has a similar build), I have no clue how much I'd weigh so I have no clear goal weight in mind but for sure I want to look ripped.

Before I forget: I got a stainless steel food scale from Target, for 15 bucks. Cheap, effective and lasts forever. You will probably need to learn how to convert ounces to grams and vice versa to get an accurate measure of your food. After measuring my food, I use a food log site like www.fitday.com or www.nutritiondata.com where I can keep track of my totals without having to write everything down. This way its also easy for me to see if I'm hitting my totals everyday and how to adjust accordingly.

For my diet I like to keep it really simple:

Carb sources: potatoes (lots of them) in all forms; sweet potatoes, yams, russet potatoes, red potatoes. Steel cut oats, fruit, veggies and occasionally I will eat some rice or bread, but very very rarely. I eat all whole foods, no processed garbage. You can eat processed food and still reach your goals, I just don't like eating fake crap.

Protein: lean meats like bison, beef, lamb, eggs (lots of them), whey protein powder, fish on occasion.

Fats: coconut oil -I cook in this its the bomb, butter,


Generally if you eat your portions of protein and carbs you will get sufficient fat. You might need to supplement a meal or two with a bit of butter, esp on non training days where fat should be higher anyways. Don't forget to count your cooking oil in your daily calorie totals. One tbsp of my oils has 120 calories and 14 grams of fat. So if I cook a piece of meat in oil, I usually count that as half a tbsp since ALL the oil doesn't get used, some sticks to the pan, some evaporates etc.

-----------------------------

What's your weight training experience???? Are you new to lifting, been lifting for a couple years??? I'm assuming you just started lifting based on your original post?

I would recommend varying your rep scheme as your body gets use to the new demands of weight training. Whenever your new to weights it shocks your body. The most important thing is to develop your stabilizer muscles FIRST, before you jump into any serious weight training. This will help you gain quicker down the road and prevent injury.

So here's what I recommend to client's starting out like you:

Month 1 (4 weeks) Stabilization Phase: 12-25 reps per set. Because reps are high you will use lighter weights in this phase to focus on proper lifting form and developing stabilizers. Also the number of sets should be kept on the lower side since you are doing so many reps. Total sets should be around 12-16 here.

Month 2 Strength Phase: After you develop your stabilizers you move on to the strength phase. Here reps are scaled back to 10-15, because the weight is increased and the number of sets increase as well. Total sets should be around 20-22.

Month 3 Hypertrophy Phase: The typical bbing style of lifting. Reps scaled back to 6-12 per set, sets are increased, intensity is increased as well. Total sets should be between 24-30 depending on the individual.

there are a lot of variables to take into account as you progress: amount of rest between sets, how you increase the weight, supersets etc etc. Just keep it simple, focus on developing a strong foundation so you can progress over the years.

Your Tekken boy didn't build that physique in 3 months. Weight Lifting is a marathon sport, big changes can be seen relatively quickly, but keep you eyes on the prize through consistency and intensity.

Also focus on the big compound lifts: squats, bench press, deadlifts etc. Too many pretty boys come to the gym and do a bunch of isolation work, which is really a waste of time for newbies. Starting Strength is a good program, Google it.

------------------------------------

First off get "weight" out of you head. Its really irrelevant in the grand scheme, body composition is far more important. I often laugh and guys who get so excited that they "weigh" 180 or say 200lbs. When they take their shirt off if they don't have abs and good muscle mass, do you think anyone is going to be impressed with a "soft" 180 lbs dude? I'm in no way saying you should lift to impress others, but as anyone who is in great shape will tell you, it comes with the territory.

Your primary focus right now should be adding some size in my opinion. Yes you will likely gain some more body fat and not have abs in the immediate future. But once you "bulk" to a certain level and have the mass, then you can cut and get super shredded and get into single digit bf with creative training and diet techniques.

Your Tekken dude has abs, but he also has more muscle mass. You need to add some quality mass to your frame before you think about abs.

The number for your daily calorie needs you came up with is 2832. Is that your maintenance calories? Or is this maintenance plus some more that you added in to be able to gain? Just curious.

Your protein, carbs and fat numbers look solid. So the only thing left to do is start implementing this program.

However here's some key points.

1) You absolutely 100% DO NOT need to eat 6 meals a day. Get that out of your head, I promise you that you will gain just fine on 4 meals a day or whatever total you wish. Meal frequency is a complete myth...do some research on that in your free time.

2) You will want your largest meal to be POST-WORKOUT. So you cam up with X amount of carbs per meal, X amount of protein etc etc. I would go noticeably higher on that number post workout, then cut that down in another meal. So for example: If you eat 55 grams of protein, 90 g of carbs and 12 grams of fat post workout, you can easily subtract that from you daily total to know how many carbs you have left for the day.

3) After your post workout meal, start tapering carbs for the rest of the day. Note taper does not mean only eat veggies like you were doing before. Lets say PRE-WORKOUT you have 35 grams of carbs. Post workout you have 90 grams of carbs, thats 125 grams. So you have 87 grams of carbs to eat for the rest of the day. So maybe your next meal you go 55, then you next meal you go 20 and your last meal of the day should be almost no carbs, which it would be at 12 grams. As you taper carbs, make sure that fat intake goes up. Remember when one macronutrient goes down, another should go up to balance it.

4) ON NON-WORKOUT days, cut carbs back about 10-15% percent and increase fat intake. Remember on non-workout days your not burning as many calories, so no need for the excess calories, this will minimize fat gain. Yes its a slower process, but it will avoid the need for you to do any heavy dieting when it comes time to cut.

So lets say you eat approximately 2,900 calories on workout days. You should raise that slightly on the day you train legs, so say 3,100 on leg days and then whatever your maintenance is on non-training days. This is strictly for GAINING, just in case you didn't know.

When it comes time to cut, you adjust and eat below maintenance on non training days in case you didn't figure that out already. Point being, make sure you adjust your macros accordingly. So if your going 212 grams of carbs on workout days. You go 212 x 4 = 848 calories. Now divide 848 by your daily calories total for the day, which is 2,832. That is 30% of your calories coming from carbs for the day.

So if you on your NON TRAINING days you are eating, say 2,500 calories. The way to figure out your carbs would be to simply take 2,500 multiple it by point 30 or (2,500 x .30) = 750 calories. Now divide this by 4 since carbs are 4 calories per gram, to get your gram total. That is 188. So on non training days you will eat 188 grams of carbs, which is about 30 grams less than non training days.

You do the exact same formula to calculate your protein, but make sure protein is always 1g at least no matter what.

For fat it is the same formula, except fat is 9 calories per gram as I mentioned last time. So instead of 4, input 9.

Now try that out for a 3-4 weeks and then re-measure bodyfat, weight and take note of strength gains in the gym. If you don't make any progress then you know that you need to bum up calories and corresponding grams of protein, carbs and fat.

If on the other hand your gaining, but notice your gaining too much fat, then you know you need to slightly reduce calories.

It takes a little trial and error to find your sweet spot because everyone is different. By different I mean metabolic rate, age, activity level, stress level etc etc. So just because 2 guys are 5'10 and weigh 180 lbs with 10% bf, does NOT mean they should both eat the exact same diet.


Hit me back and let me know if this all marinates,




PIMP

 

[Kirro]

I like that diet, I may steal most of it....

I started lifting last fall, got sick & only continued last month. So I haven't been lifting for very long at all.

I guess now would be a good time to tell you what I can so far.

Last max squat was 155lbs, could only do 3 reps.

Started doing deadlifts today at 105lbs with relative ease so I could probably do more.

I did weighted lunges at 105 lbs but I can probably do more.

I can bench 85 but I think I can do a lot more.

For dumbbell rows I can go up to 40lbs.

I can only do about 7-8 pull ups straight.

For all deltoid raises(front, side, back) I can go up to about 15lbs max.

For shoulder press I can go up to 80 but I think I can do 90 or more.

I can do about 15-18 body weight dips straight.

I can go up to about 60-70lbs with the tricep press.

I can curl 25lbs(pronate & hammer).

So based on my current capabilities, is there any exact system I should use?

(checking out the starting strength thing as we speak.........)

I'm well aware that to build a body like the Tekken dude it may take far longer than 3 months but I'm truly obsessed with achieving that first & foremost to impress myself.

I will make it my mission to master all the compound lifts & I ain't that pretty so I won't make that mistake.

Awww, I gotta bulk first? I really wanted that 8 pack oh well its all about the best long term results. 2832 is supposedly my maintenance calorie intake.

It all makes perfect sense but it looks like it will be a headache to implement, however if that's what it takes to go from "decent" or "barely above average" to "awesome", I'm willing to put in the work.

Oh & what about cardio? What kind would you recommend?

 

[Fuglydude]

I'm acutely sleep deprived right now, so please take anything I say with a grain of salt!

Pimp gave you wicked awesome advice and I'll back up pretty much all of what he says. Based on what I understand, your goals are to have a lot of muscle mass and also have very low bf%.... I think most people have these goals! Keep in mind that being really low bf% < 6-7% is HARD, unless you're a freak. Your diet has to be near perfect. Unless you have something specific to train for, like a bodybuilding comp/photoshoot, etc its very tough to achieve and maintain that level of leanness. I think it would be a much more pragmatic goal for you to try and stay in the high single digit range.

Personally I think you need to add more overall mass first. Given your training history and numbers as listed on your last post, you need to get bigger and stronger before you think about cutting. Its a lot easier to cut when you have more muscle mass, as your metabolic rate will be way higher. In addition you'll look a lot bigger when you have more muscle mass, a great upper back/shoulders and a small waist.

I would STRONGLY recommend you take the next year and pack on as much meat as you can. Get as big and as strong as you can. I'd aim for the 3-4-5, or bench 300, squat 400, deadlift 500. You're young, your test levels should be high. In addition, in my experience, many Jamaican people (not sure if you're from Jamaican) have fantastic muscle potential. Long, full muscle bellies that respond to any form of training. I stripped w/ a couple of guys who always were huge and cut and barely trained... obviously these guys are freaks, but I definitely think your ethnicity gives you an advantage.

If you train properly, eat well, and supplement smart, there's NO reason why you can't put on 40-50 lbs in a year. Since you're still a beginner, you shouldn't have too many issues maintaining a reasonable bodyfat% as long as your diet is on point. Just eat tons of whole, unrefined clean food. I'll include a sample bulking diet for you later on. Imagine being 240 w/ 17% bf... that's around 200 lbs lean body mass. You can easily cut that down to 220 in the single digits bf%, and look totally jacked. I've worked with a couple of strippers that had stats like that, and they did VERY well!

Don't expect anything to come fast man. Lifting is a lifelong pursuit, and should be something you do until your flame is extinguished. At the beginning its fantastic because your weight will shoot up and you'll be happy with progress, but when you've been lifting as long as I have, every small little victory counts! I'm ecstatic if my max DL/squat increases by 5-10 lbs!

"Unfortunately" since you're sitting around 200 lbs, you're gonna have to take in a shiit load of calories. Be prepared to feel pregnant at the start... Its not pretty, but its what it takes man. Here's a sample bulking diet for your program:

Meal 1: 2 cups oatmeal + 50 g whey isolate (pre-WO). Wake up earlier if you need to. Make sure you drink tons of water before your WO.

Meal 2: Post WO meal: 1 cup oatmeal or 6-8 oz of yams, w/ 50 g whey isolate and higher GI fruit such as bananas, etc. If you're interested you may consider a supplement called waxy maize around training time as well.

Meal 3: 6-8 oz of red meat w/ 2 cups brown rice or 1-2 cups of oatmeal. Add veges as you desire. If you're gonna have a salad use macademia nut oil or simply virgin olive oil for your salad dressing.

Meal 4: Weight gain shake w/ 2 cups skim milk. Aim to get in 700-800 calories and at least 50 g protein.

Meal 5: 4-6 whole eggs. 1 oz of walnuts/cashews. 1/2 cup cottage cheese.

Meal 6: 1/2-1 cup cottage cheese. 4 oz of chicken/fish w/ 1 serving veges.

Supplements:

- Multivitamin (GNC has some decent ones)
- EFAs (fish oil: aim for at least 3-5 g of actual EPA/DHA per day)
- Antioxidant formula: pick vitamin C, E, beta carotene, NAC, etc. etc
- Whey isolate.
- Mass gainer

Meals 1, 2 can be consumed around your WO time: Meal 1 right after you get up, and then meal 2 for post training. I've used whey isolate shakes here as it'll get your blood amino acid levels up fast, and its easy and quick to make and consume as is oatmeal/fruit/veges, etc.

You should take 3 meals to work with you. I'm assuming you get at least 2 breaks. Eat your meals 3 and 5 during your breaks, and have your weight gainer shake when you're at your work station, etc. Most places allow you to drink stuff on the job. Hell I work in an ICU and I do it all the time. Meal 6 will be after you get home from work.

This diet will give you a reasonable nutritional base for getting enough calories and protein you need to start growing.

I can barely keep my eyes open, so I won't get into training... save it for another day. Never forget that diet is 3/4 of fitness. If your diet isn't solid you won't get to where you wanna be.... especially in your case as your aim is to have a lot of muscle mass w/ low bf%.

Holla back if you have any questions.

 

[Kirro]

I'm acutely sleep deprived right now, so please take anything I say with a grain of salt!

Pimp gave you wicked awesome advice and I'll back up pretty much all of what he says. Based on what I understand, your goals are to have a lot of muscle mass and also have very low bf%.... I think most people have these goals! Keep in mind that being really low bf% < 6-7% is HARD, unless you're a freak. Your diet has to be near perfect. Unless you have something specific to train for, like a bodybuilding comp/photoshoot, etc its very tough to achieve and maintain that level of leanness. I think it would be a much more pragmatic goal for you to try and stay in the high single digit range.

Personally I think you need to add more overall mass first. Given your training history and numbers as listed on your last post, you need to get bigger and stronger before you think about cutting. Its a lot easier to cut when you have more muscle mass, as your metabolic rate will be way higher. In addition you'll look a lot bigger when you have more muscle mass, a great upper back/shoulders and a small waist.

I would STRONGLY recommend you take the next year and pack on as much meat as you can. Get as big and as strong as you can. I'd aim for the 3-4-5, or bench 300, squat 400, deadlift 500. You're young, your test levels should be high. In addition, in my experience, many Jamaican people (not sure if you're from Jamaican) have fantastic muscle potential. Long, full muscle bellies that respond to any form of training. I stripped w/ a couple of guys who always were huge and cut and barely trained... obviously these guys are freaks, but I definitely think your ethnicity gives you an advantage.

If you train properly, eat well, and supplement smart, there's NO reason why you can't put on 40-50 lbs in a year. Since you're still a beginner, you shouldn't have too many issues maintaining a reasonable bodyfat% as long as your diet is on point. Just eat tons of whole, unrefined clean food. I'll include a sample bulking diet for you later on. Imagine being 240 w/ 17% bf... that's around 200 lbs lean body mass. You can easily cut that down to 220 in the single digits bf%, and look totally jacked. I've worked with a couple of strippers that had stats like that, and they did VERY well!

Don't expect anything to come fast man. Lifting is a lifelong pursuit, and should be something you do until your flame is extinguished. At the beginning its fantastic because your weight will shoot up and you'll be happy with progress, but when you've been lifting as long as I have, every small little victory counts! I'm ecstatic if my max DL/squat increases by 5-10 lbs!

"Unfortunately" since you're sitting around 200 lbs, you're gonna have to take in a shiit load of calories. Be prepared to feel pregnant at the start... Its not pretty, but its what it takes man. Here's a sample bulking diet for your program:

Meal 1: 2 cups oatmeal + 50 g whey isolate (pre-WO). Wake up earlier if you need to. Make sure you drink tons of water before your WO.

Meal 2: Post WO meal: 1 cup oatmeal or 6-8 oz of yams, w/ 50 g whey isolate and higher GI fruit such as bananas, etc. If you're interested you may consider a supplement called waxy maize around training time as well.

Meal 3: 6-8 oz of red meat w/ 2 cups brown rice or 1-2 cups of oatmeal. Add veges as you desire. If you're gonna have a salad use macademia nut oil or simply virgin olive oil for your salad dressing.

Meal 4: Weight gain shake w/ 2 cups skim milk. Aim to get in 700-800 calories and at least 50 g protein.

Meal 5: 4-6 whole eggs. 1 oz of walnuts/cashews. 1/2 cup cottage cheese.

Meal 6: 1/2-1 cup cottage cheese. 4 oz of chicken/fish w/ 1 serving veges.

Supplements:

- Multivitamin (GNC has some decent ones)
- EFAs (fish oil: aim for at least 3-5 g of actual EPA/DHA per day)
- Antioxidant formula: pick vitamin C, E, beta carotene, NAC, etc. etc
- Whey isolate.
- Mass gainer

Meals 1, 2 can be consumed around your WO time: Meal 1 right after you get up, and then meal 2 for post training. I've used whey isolate shakes here as it'll get your blood amino acid levels up fast, and its easy and quick to make and consume as is oatmeal/fruit/veges, etc.

You should take 3 meals to work with you. I'm assuming you get at least 2 breaks. Eat your meals 3 and 5 during your breaks, and have your weight gainer shake when you're at your work station, etc. Most places allow you to drink stuff on the job. Hell I work in an ICU and I do it all the time. Meal 6 will be after you get home from work.

This diet will give you a reasonable nutritional base for getting enough calories and protein you need to start growing.

I can barely keep my eyes open, so I won't get into training... save it for another day. Never forget that diet is 3/4 of fitness. If your diet isn't solid you won't get to where you wanna be.... especially in your case as your aim is to have a lot of muscle mass w/ low bf%.

Holla back if you have any questions.

I'm understanding perfectly why I should bulk first.....I actually think it will be easier for me since I'm ALWAYS HUNGRY & I love eating a ton of meat

Well I'm not Jamaican, I'm Barbadian however most of the males in my family are strong, fast & athletic. During the course of this I'll be sure to keep you & PIMP posted to see if I am indeed a freak like my Jamaican cousins.

Me at 240lbs? I can't even imagine being that large. I need to know though, beyond being strong & looking awesome wouldn't that be a lot of stress for my bones? Wouldn't it slow me down while running or swimming(I plan to do a course to become a life guard). I pride myself on my agility, I don't want to toss all of it through the window.

Seriously though Fuglydude, you're expecting me to bench 300, squat 400 & deadlift 500 by when exactly??? Doesn't that take years????

To this day I don't understand how I could be 200lbs naturally, I used to be 145 just 2 years ago & yet look so skinny & be so soft....sigh. The problem isn't eating more calories its just effectively measuring my food so I know I'm taking in the right amounts.

Now here's the problem with myself & oatmeal, how do I prepare it so it doesn't turn into hard, disgusting slop? Unless I just leave it up to my mom. & might I say, though this diet seems effective, it looks like it mostly tastes like crap. Honestly man, this is probably the worst part of your posts......>_>. Oh well even saying that I'm probably still going to end up trying it out anyways. All in the pursuit of self improvement I guess.

(Note all questions I ask can be answer by both you & PIMP)

I was curious about 3 guys I know, one is my cousin, another is a long time friend & another is one of my current managers at work.

They all got into shape before their teens, they built lean muscle & all had low BF%. Yet all 3 can now chop down on utter crap & have been doing so for YEARS & still retain their awesome shape. They also seemed to transform right before my eyes(referring to friend & cousin here). One second they were as skinny as I was then BOOM....looking like they hopped out of a video game.

Was it easier for them to get in shape because they were younger & smaller & thus eating a caloric surplus was easier?(& Thus their macro-nutritional needs were much smaller?)

The impact of weights on young growing muscles sparked a rapid hypertrophy?

& given a naturally hyper male metabolism especially for such young boys made it easier to keep body fat% low?

& now at ages 19(friend), 22(cousin) & 24(manager), & having all that muscle keeps their metabolism in a constant state of burn thus keeping body fat off?

I'm also curious at the fact that they're all in what I consider Super shape yet I still weigh more than all of them(I'm slightly taller as well), to a degree I can keep up with them athletically as well. Does this mean that if I also get into "super shape", would I surpass them?

One more question, is there something wrong with me? Since coming to North America I've had a vision, being able to work at the same time has made me believe I can finally accomplish one of my life's goals(getting in great shape), I've wanted to do it since I was little but something always got in the way now I finally have the finances & time to make it a reality however it feels like I'm unable to close when it comes to women, in the time I've been here 2 girls have literally thrown themselves at me & I've rejected them, many girls have given me signs & I've ignored them on purpose, one girl I work with is basically counting down the days till I invite myself over...I don't plan to & there's a cougar trying to sniff my mane who I wouldn't smash in any universe. Point is, I only want to mess with women until I'm at a point physically where I'M satisfied with myself. I want to deal with women in my best possible form at my highest point of ability.

The Kirro you see in the pic is considered to be good looking, attractive, I don't see that, I see a scrawny weakling with no abs......point is there are a group of men far superior to me physically, I can't stand that. I'm known for my confidence, my charisma, my brashness, well I can't properly channel my personality with the body I have currently. I don't know if this makes sense but my personality is best used in a body that is full of muscle & ripped. So yeah, is there something wrong with feeling/thinking this way?

EDIT - Oh & thank you both for all your time & energy & knowledge, rest assured none of this is falling on deaf ears, BTW Pimp I'm heading over to Target after payday to buy that stainless steel food scale.(now to find one near me)

 

[Pimp-sicle]

To this day I don't understand how I could be 200lbs naturally, I used to be 145 just 2 years ago & yet look so skinny & be so soft....sigh. The problem isn't eating more calories its just effectively measuring my food so I know I'm taking in the right amounts.

Bro your a young pup, and now your getting into serious training, weight, muscle, strength, size etc will all come. Your already 175-180ish, you'll hit 200lbs no problem if you seriously train.

Now here's the problem with myself & oatmeal, how do I prepare it so it doesn't turn into hard, disgusting slop? Unless I just leave it up to my mom. & might I say, though this diet seems effective, it looks like it mostly tastes like crap.

I love all the food I eat, tastes awesome, I'm sure Fugly will agree that when you get into this lifestyle, you learn how to cook and learn how to become a damn good cook! haha In either case food is fuel to me, I don't always think about taste, I think about giving my body the nutrition it needs to hit my goals.

As for the oatmeal, just put a little extra water in it when you prepare it. If you do instant oats, pour the oatmeal in a bowl, the water should be slightly above the oatmeal. Same for if you do steel cut and make them on the stove, although that takes way longer.

(Note all questions I ask can be answer by both you & PIMP)

Thank you for that honor....haha


I was curious about 3 guys I know, one is my cousin, another is a long time friend & another is one of my current managers at work.

I'm going to answer your questions, but will preface by saying, STOP comparing yourself to anyone but YOU. Yeah its hard to not want to see what a kid similar to your age might be lifting when your at the gym. But as you progress, you'll learn to leave your ego at the door and focus on one thing: getting stronger.

They all got into shape before their teens, they built lean muscle & all had low BF%. Yet all 3 can now chop down on utter crap & have been doing so for YEARS & still retain their awesome shape.

You don't "have to" eat completely clean all the time. I personally do, because I feel better that way and like knowing I'm not eating a bunch of artificial crap, fillers, etc etc. However you need to separate health and bodybuilding, they are two completely different subjects. Most guys, esp at your age only care about "looking" a certain way. They don't care about the potential damage or long term effects that the crappy food has on their body.

With that said, I hardly doubt that these 3 people you mention eat complete garbage all day around the clock. The bottom line though is its all about calories in vs calories out if you want to simplify it. Its easier to eat 4,000 calories a day if your mixing in an ice cream sandwich and a burger here and there as opposed to eating completely clean foods. Not to mention that most guys are lazy, they don't want to plan ahead, so they do it last minute and run to a fast food joint so they don't starve.


They also seemed to transform right before my eyes(referring to friend & cousin here). One second they were as skinny as I was then BOOM....looking like they hopped out of a video game.

My first year of serious weight training, I put on 24 lbs eating pretty clean and consistently training in 6 months. Now if I gain a quarter inch on my arms or an inch on my thighs I'm stoked. These are all newbie gains. You will blow up, which is why Fugly is saying 200 lbs will be no thang for you. But you have to be consistent.....that's the number one thing.

Was it easier for them to get in shape because they were younger & smaller & thus eating a caloric surplus was easier?(& Thus their macro-nutritional needs were much smaller?)

When you first start working out you are shocking your nervous system. Muscle growth, strength gain etc etc is an adaptation by the body to a outside stimulus (weight training). Again stop comparing and worry about yourself and your Tekken dreams. Growth will only occur when calories in exceed calories out. Now how that growth occurs can be different in everyone, one might gain 10 lbs of water and fat if they don't know what they're doing. One might gain 3 lbs of lean muscle and drop 2% body fat, which is impressive despite seeing such small numbers. Generally speaking if these guys were much smaller than you when they started, yes gains will "appear" to come quicker because they're smaller and shorter. Short dudes can look jacked quick because they their muscles are shorter than a tall dude like yourself. However once you get jacked, you will always look more impressive than a short dude.

The impact of weights on young growing muscles sparked a rapid hypertrophy?

Hypertrophy is a style of lifting. You will often read training logs that say "hypertrophy phase." What this is referring to is the rep range, scheme of weight increase, intensity and rest period.

& given a naturally hyper male metabolism especially for such young boys made it easier to keep body fat% low?

Metabolism technically doesn't slow down as we age, it ADJUSTS to our lifestyle. For example, think of the typical 16 year old. He's likely active in sports, lifts weights, hangs out with his friends, plays with his dog etc. In other words, he's very active. Now 20 years later, he's married, he has a desk job sitting on his @ss from 9-5. He comes home and he's starving so he eats a crap load of food, then he maybe watches some tv and hits the sack. When he gains 35 lbs of lard he will say "Oh my metabolism slowed down." When in reality its not his metabolism that actually slowed down dramatically, its his lifestyle that has changed, causing his body to adapt. If that guy suddenly got motivated, joined a gym and became close to as active as he was 20 years ago, he will get in excellent shape pending any serious health problems. Most people have excuses as to why they're fat and out of shape, they will always be fat and out of shape in the long run.

& now at ages 19(friend), 22(cousin) & 24(manager), & having all that muscle keeps their metabolism in a constant state of burn thus keeping body fat off?

Working out definitely increases metabolic rate...if your ever interested in proving this, take your body temp with a thermometer 20 minutes after eating, just before working out. Then take it 20 minutes after the gym. Unless you had a HUGE meal b4 you worked out, your metabolism will be elevated after the gym by way of an increased body temp. These 3 guys have a head start on you, your a beginner, they're likely somewhere in the middle.

I'm also curious at the fact that they're all in what I consider Super shape yet I still weigh more than all of them(I'm slightly taller as well), to a degree I can keep up with them athletically as well. Does this mean that if I also get into "super shape", would I surpass them?

Weight doesn't mean jack shiat! I mean it does, but it really doesn't. Body composition is everything. If I found a kid who weigh 145 lbs, but had 7% bf and put him right next to you...guess who would look more muscular? He would, because if your holding 14% body fat he has more or just about the same "lean muscle mass" on his 145 lb frame as you do. I know guys who weigh 200 lbs and can't lift close to the poundages of 150 lb guys. Its all about getting a good base, learning proper lifting technique (form) and diet.


Continued below...

 

[Pimp-sicle]

One more question, is there something wrong with me? Since coming to North America I've had a vision, being able to work at the same time has made me believe I can finally accomplish one of my life's goals(getting in great shape), I've wanted to do it since I was little but something always got in the way now I finally have the finances & time to make it a reality however it feels like I'm unable to close when it comes to women, in the time I've been here 2 girls have literally thrown themselves at me & I've rejected them, many girls have given me signs & I've ignored them on purpose, one girl I work with is basically counting down the days till I invite myself over...I don't plan to & there's a cougar trying to sniff my mane who I wouldn't smash in any universe. Point is, I only want to mess with women until I'm at a point physically where I'M satisfied with myself. I want to deal with women in my best possible form at my highest point of ability.

Its called priorities! haha Most guys come to these boards because they want female attention period and are sick of letting women slip through their fingers. Sounds like you have a strong desire to have great physique (which is a great goal) and realize that once you a truly happy with yourself inside and out, is when people become drawn to you.

I'm very similar to you in that regard and its what separates the men from the boys. But I'm a perfectionist so maybe its a whole other issue! lol

One last thing I will say on that topic; most guys revolve their self worth around women. Its the select few that learn that women will always come and go, if you strive for your goals and constantly improve yourself, girls will always be on your jock.

The Kirro you see in the pic is considered to be good looking, attractive, I don't see that, I see a scrawny weakling with no abs......point is there are a group of men far superior to me physically, I can't stand that. I'm known for my confidence, my charisma, my brashness, well I can't properly channel my personality with the body I have currently. I don't know if this makes sense but my personality is best used in a body that is full of muscle & ripped. So yeah, is there something wrong with feeling/thinking this way?

So your saying your really Batman, but your currently trapped in Bruce Wayne's body? Look there's something to be said about feeling good about yourself. You basically just defined what makes you feel good about YOU. There's nothing wrong with that, just don't let those thoughts dip too far off the deep end and make you depressed. Be excited that you are on the verge of change; its a long road, filled with peaks and valleys, but its worth it.

EDIT - Oh & thank you both for all your time & energy & knowledge, rest assured none of this is falling on deaf ears, BTW Pimp I'm heading over to Target after payday to buy that stainless steel food scale.(now to find one near me)[/QUOTE]

You don't have to go to Target, that's just where I found mine. Look it up online, I'm sure Amazon has them, or you can even order it online from Target. I like this stainless steel one because its got a big tray, so I can quickly measure my food. I use to use these 5 dollar plastic ones that would take forever, always break and the actual scale part is so small I had to squint to accurately read it...



Last thing I will say, based on your lifting experience and current poundages. I would really REALLY REEEEEEEEEEEALLLY recommend starting on a stabilization routine, even before you start doing Starting Strength fully.


Muscles grow faster than tendons, ligaments and joints. Joints don't actually grow, but adjust to weight training. You will avoid many injuries if you work on developing your stabilizer muscles, to prevent synergistic dominance, muscle imbalances and over-compensation.

I recommend for 4 short weeks, doing a program focused on high high reps 12-25 reps per set, lower sets and low intensity. Focus on good form, getting your body use to the movement and not over-compensating. Again, check the ego at the door, who cares if someone see's you benching with only 10lb plates on the side, if they're so worried about you, they likely have a terrible physique.

Do a lot of work on a stability ball, this will indirectly work your core, help your stabilizers develop and eventually make you stronger when you get to a traditional bodybuilding, hypertrophy phase.


So for example: Most people who do chest on a particular day will do: Chest and say Triceps, or what is referred to as a "split routine." Where they break up body parts and work them out on different days, typically 4-5x a week

-Barbell Bench 8-12 reps 45 seconds-2 minutes rest between sets, 3-4 sets
-Incline Bench same for each
-Decline Bench same
-Flyes same


Well what I would do for you is design a total body program like this:

Chest:

-Dumbbell bench on stability ball 12-25 reps 2 sets, 30 seconds rest
-Stability ball push-ups 12-25 reps 2 sets 30 seconds rest

Back:

-Prone (lying stomach down) Stability Ball Rows

Shoulders:

-Stability Ball Dumbbell Presses

-Legs:

Step Ups with light weight: all rep ranges would be consistent in the 12-25 range with minimal rest

Squat Jumps

Core:

-Supine Marches
-Prone Cobra

Do this routine for 4 weeks and i guarantee all your current lifts will go up right off the bat. How? Because you would have developed all your stabilizers, added some strength to your core and worked on your reactive and balance abilities.

A strong core and stabilizers will help you dramatically increase lifting poundages.

After 4 weeks depending on your progress you could then advance to the next phase. After another 4 weeks you would be ready to start Starting Strength full fledge.

Note: Its always a good idea to cycle back to a stabilization phase once every 8-12 weeks. Weight training is a stress on the body, and periodically its good to give the body a little bit of a break, some guys like to take a week off once every 3 months, others will go "light," which is what the stabilization phase is all about. Whatever you do, don't ignore those stabilizers, I can't stress that enough if you want to avoid injury and rehab.


Edit: Forgot to add that if your maintenance calories are indeed 2,832. Then to bulk you will need to add calories to this (duh) to start towards your goal. With clients I base this off their current body fat level, to determine how many calories over maintenance I will add. So for example, your at 13-14%, I would probably add 300 calories over maintenance for you if that bf % is accurate. Eat at maintenance on non-training days. As you get to a hypertrophy phase down the road, I would adjust again.

Measure bodyfat % and weight once every 2 weeks and track progress. Make the necessary adjustments based on what they say; this is where its all individual to the person and cookie cutter approaches will fail ESPECIALLY when you try to diet down.





PIMP

 

[Kirro]

Bro your a young pup, and now your getting into serious training, weight, muscle, strength, size etc will all come. Your already 175-180ish, you'll hit 200lbs no problem if you seriously train.

XD@ calling me a young pup, I rather the term "cub" as in lion cub, I already have a mane thing going on.

I love all the food I eat, tastes awesome, I'm sure Fugly will agree that when you get into this lifestyle, you learn how to cook and learn how to become a damn good cook! haha In either case food is fuel to me, I don't always think about taste, I think about giving my body the nutrition it needs to hit my goals.

As for the oatmeal, just put a little extra water in it when you prepare it. If you do instant oats, pour the oatmeal in a bowl, the water should be slightly above the oatmeal. Same for if you do steel cut and make them on the stove, although that takes way longer.

Well thanks for the tips, I'll just have to get used to it won't I?



Thank you for that honor....haha

You're very welcome. Its the least I could do after getting all this in-depth advice.


I'm going to answer your questions, but will preface by saying, STOP comparing yourself to anyone but YOU. Yeah its hard to not want to see what a kid similar to your age might be lifting when your at the gym. But as you progress, you'll learn to leave your ego at the door and focus on one thing: getting stronger.

I can't help comparing things & myself, I'm critical & competitive person.

You don't "have to" eat completely clean all the time. I personally do, because I feel better that way and like knowing I'm not eating a bunch of artificial crap, fillers, etc etc. However you need to separate health and bodybuilding, they are two completely different subjects. Most guys, esp at your age only care about "looking" a certain way. They don't care about the potential damage or long term effects that the crappy food has on their body.

With that said, I hardly doubt that these 3 people you mention eat complete garbage all day around the clock. The bottom line though is its all about calories in vs calories out if you want to simplify it. Its easier to eat 4,000 calories a day if your mixing in an ice cream sandwich and a burger here and there as opposed to eating completely clean foods. Not to mention that most guys are lazy, they don't want to plan ahead, so they do it last minute and run to a fast food joint so they don't starve.

One of them used to clean but due to his inflexible schedule is forced to eat fast food a lot. Another barely eats & when he does its junk & my cousin eats more natural food but some of the things aren't usually recommended.


My first year of serious weight training, I put on 24 lbs eating pretty clean and consistently training in 6 months. Now if I gain a quarter inch on my arms or an inch on my thighs I'm stoked. These are all newbie gains. You will blow up, which is why Fugly is saying 200 lbs will be no thang for you. But you have to be consistent.....that's the number one thing.

The thought of that makes me anxious, perhaps maybe too anxious. In a sense I think of myself in my best shape as my true physical form, when I start seeing proper results I would have started to become what I call "physically enlightened".

When you first start working out you are shocking your nervous system. Muscle growth, strength gain etc etc is an adaptation by the body to a outside stimulus (weight training). Again stop comparing and worry about yourself and your Tekken dreams. Growth will only occur when calories in exceed calories out. Now how that growth occurs can be different in everyone, one might gain 10 lbs of water and fat if they don't know what they're doing. One might gain 3 lbs of lean muscle and drop 2% body fat, which is impressive despite seeing such small numbers. Generally speaking if these guys were much smaller than you when they started, yes gains will "appear" to come quicker because they're smaller and shorter. Short dudes can look jacked quick because they their muscles are shorter than a tall dude like yourself. However once you get jacked, you will always look more impressive than a short dude.

Well all of these guys aren't short, they're all close to my height right now but obviously back then they were shorter.

Hypertrophy is a style of lifting. You will often read training logs that say "hypertrophy phase." What this is referring to is the rep range, scheme of weight increase, intensity and rest period.

Oh. More ya know I guess.

Metabolism technically doesn't slow down as we age, it ADJUSTS to our lifestyle. For example, think of the typical 16 year old. He's likely active in sports, lifts weights, hangs out with his friends, plays with his dog etc. In other words, he's very active. Now 20 years later, he's married, he has a desk job sitting on his @ss from 9-5. He comes home and he's starving so he eats a crap load of food, then he maybe watches some tv and hits the sack. When he gains 35 lbs of lard he will say "Oh my metabolism slowed down." When in reality its not his metabolism that actually slowed down dramatically, its his lifestyle that has changed, causing his body to adapt. If that guy suddenly got motivated, joined a gym and became close to as active as he was 20 years ago, he will get in excellent shape pending any serious health problems. Most people have excuses as to why they're fat and out of shape, they will always be fat and out of shape in the long run.

Didn't know it worked that way. Damn you hear so many different things about this stuff.


Working out definitely increases metabolic rate...if your ever interested in proving this, take your body temp with a thermometer 20 minutes after eating, just before working out. Then take it 20 minutes after the gym. Unless you had a HUGE meal b4 you worked out, your metabolism will be elevated after the gym by way of an increased body temp. These 3 guys have a head start on you, your a beginner, they're likely somewhere in the middle.

Of course they have a head start on me, a giant one.

Weight doesn't mean jack shiat! I mean it does, but it really doesn't. Body composition is everything. If I found a kid who weigh 145 lbs, but had 7% bf and put him right next to you...guess who would look more muscular? He would, because if your holding 14% body fat he has more or just about the same "lean muscle mass" on his 145 lb frame as you do. I know guys who weigh 200 lbs and can't lift close to the poundages of 150 lb guys. Its all about getting a good base, learning proper lifting technique (form) and diet.

Makes sense.


Continued below...[/QUOTE]

 

[Kirro]

Its called priorities! haha Most guys come to these boards because they want female attention period and are sick of letting women slip through their fingers. Sounds like you have a strong desire to have great physique (which is a great goal) and realize that once you a truly happy with yourself inside and out, is when people become drawn to you.

I'm very similar to you in that regard and its what separates the men from the boys. But I'm a perfectionist so maybe its a whole other issue! lol

One last thing I will say on that topic; most guys revolve their self worth around women. Its the select few that learn that women will always come and go, if you strive for your goals and constantly improve yourself, girls will always be on your jock.

I haven't gotten laid in over 2 years. Now I could end this drought but what with what...7s? The occasional 8? The rare 9? I don't like those odds, I rather stay dry for the next 2 years if that's what it takes to reach my goals. I want women I'm actually truly attracted to....example.

http://i56.tinypic.com/2j64xh5.jpg - Chick on the right obviously, I consider that body type 9-10 range regardless of race or colour. I will on pursue women in my best form but moreso I will only feel truly alive in my best form. I love martial arts, running & friendly fights.....I want to do them all in my best form. I live now for self improvement & enlightenment both mentally & physically


So your saying your really Batman, but your currently trapped in Bruce Wayne's body? Look there's something to be said about feeling good about yourself. You basically just defined what makes you feel good about YOU. There's nothing wrong with that, just don't let those thoughts dip too far off the deep end and make you depressed. Be excited that you are on the verge of change; its a long road, filled with peaks and valleys, but its worth it.

Too late!!! I've already been in & out of mild depression(hence why I came here to the H&F section for help). I'm really unable to enjoy many things right now & being in another country & having to communicate to my closest friends via IM sucks, I don't like most of the people who like me so there isn't much to distract me from my own thoughts. It feels like I'm in a vicious cycle or quicksand.


You don't have to go to Target, that's just where I found mine. Look it up online, I'm sure Amazon has them, or you can even order it online from Target. I like this stainless steel one because its got a big tray, so I can quickly measure my food. I use to use these 5 dollar plastic ones that would take forever, always break and the actual scale part is so small I had to squint to accurately read it...

Thanks for the tip. I'll get on that Thursday morning before I go running.



Last thing I will say, based on your lifting experience and current poundages. I would really REALLY REEEEEEEEEEEALLLY recommend starting on a stabilization routine, even before you start doing Starting Strength fully.

Oh?

Muscles grow faster than tendons, ligaments and joints. Joints don't actually grow, but adjust to weight training. You will avoid many injuries if you work on developing your stabilizer muscles, to prevent synergistic dominance, muscle imbalances and over-compensation.

I recommend for 4 short weeks, doing a program focused on high high reps 12-25 reps per set, lower sets and low intensity. Focus on good form, getting your body use to the movement and not over-compensating. Again, check the ego at the door, who cares if someone see's you benching with only 10lb plates on the side, if they're so worried about you, they likely have a terrible physique.

Do a lot of work on a stability ball, this will indirectly work your core, help your stabilizers develop and eventually make you stronger when you get to a traditional bodybuilding, hypertrophy phase.


So for example: Most people who do chest on a particular day will do: Chest and say Triceps, or what is referred to as a "split routine." Where they break up body parts and work them out on different days, typically 4-5x a week

-Barbell Bench 8-12 reps 45 seconds-2 minutes rest between sets, 3-4 sets
-Incline Bench same for each
-Decline Bench same
-Flyes same


Well what I would do for you is design a total body program like this:

Chest:

-Dumbbell bench on stability ball 12-25 reps 2 sets, 30 seconds rest
-Stability ball push-ups 12-25 reps 2 sets 30 seconds rest

Back:

-Prone (lying stomach down) Stability Ball Rows

Shoulders:

-Stability Ball Dumbbell Presses

-Legs:

Step Ups with light weight: all rep ranges would be consistent in the 12-25 range with minimal rest

Squat Jumps

Core:

-Supine Marches
-Prone Cobra

Do this routine for 4 weeks and i guarantee all your current lifts will go up right off the bat. How? Because you would have developed all your stabilizers, added some strength to your core and worked on your reactive and balance abilities.

A strong core and stabilizers will help you dramatically increase lifting poundages.

After 4 weeks depending on your progress you could then advance to the next phase. After another 4 weeks you would be ready to start Starting Strength full fledge.

Note: Its always a good idea to cycle back to a stabilization phase once every 8-12 weeks. Weight training is a stress on the body, and periodically its good to give the body a little bit of a break, some guys like to take a week off once every 3 months, others will go "light," which is what the stabilization phase is all about. Whatever you do, don't ignore those stabilizers, I can't stress that enough if you want to avoid injury and rehab.


Edit: Forgot to add that if your maintenance calories are indeed 2,832. Then to bulk you will need to add calories to this (duh) to start towards your goal. With clients I base this off their current body fat level, to determine how many calories over maintenance I will add. So for example, your at 13-14%, I would probably add 300 calories over maintenance for you if that bf % is accurate. Eat at maintenance on non-training days. As you get to a hypertrophy phase down the road, I would adjust again.

Measure bodyfat % and weight once every 2 weeks and track progress. Make the necessary adjustments based on what they say; this is where its all individual to the person and cookie cutter approaches will fail ESPECIALLY when you try to diet down.





PIMP

Okay, I'll do as you say & keep you posted. I'll try to start as early as next week by then I should have every piece of apparatus I need. Any gym wear or shoes you'd like to recommend while you're at it?

EDIT - I really wanna try those stability ball exercises....I replace my current routine with what you just listed yeah?(I'm not so sure I can use one of the stability balls they have there, I can ask but they look like they're reserved for personal trainers & clients.)

 

[Fuglydude]

Pimp gave you solid advice about training. I don't agree with ALL of it, but generally there's tons of great points that he mentioned. Haha, you should seriously consider paying him for the kind of info he's giving you and the breadth of his explanations, etc.

I'm goin on holidays and won't be available for around a week... so I'll give you my 2 cents after I get back.

The diet/lifting lifestyle is weird and tough to stick to at the start, but soon can become almost like a habit. Just stay consistent and stick to it until you die and your life will be incalculably better!!!!

 

[Kirro]

Enjoy your holidays Fugly & I'll be looking forward to your 2 cents(more like 2, 000 dollars in value).

 

[Fuglydude]

Kirro,

The 300-400-500 level that I highlighted is actually quite modest. There's dudes like Colossus even on this "how to pick up chics" forums that have 600+ lb deadlifts and 500 lb squats. I've been lifting for around 12 years and still am not at this level. I'm close, but not there yet... but then again I don't train solely to be strong.

As some of the guys said, a program like starting strength is a good place to start. If you put together a reasonable strength/hypertrophy/conditioning program combined with a good diet, there's absolutely no reason you won't be able to hit 230-240 lbs within a year. I'm a huge believer of initially adding mass and developing a muscular/metabolic "base" before you try and cut and get lean.

Remember, muscle is very metabolically expensive to maintain. Having lots of muscle will jack up your metabolic rate and make it much easier for you to burn fat. Muscles are like metabolic armor... I remember one of my pharmacology profs who is an expert in potassium channels, stating that having a good amount of active muscle mass was one of the easiest ways to avoid diabetes/metabolic syndrome, etc.

The routine that I'll recommend to you is what I recommend to most newbies. Its a very simple format w/ 3 weight days/week:

1. Squats/chins w/ accessory work.
2. Upper body push/pull w/ accessory work.
3. Deads/Dips w/ accessory work.

Work abs every day you train. This program uses the principle of antagonist muscle groups to get the most work out of your body. By only training 3 days/week you are unlikely to overtrain. Rest assured that if executed properly it can be a very productive program for a beginner. Let me know if you're interested and I can give you a more detailed break down.

Your agility/conditioning will suffer at the start as your body struggles to adapt to the new weight, but you'll see that its quite easy for your body to adjust to new body mass as long as its lean mass. There will be an adjustment period, but if your conditioning and body composition are good you won't have issues even at higher weights. I personally find that I can't really jog that much anymore since I'm heavier... my ankles and achilles tendons can't take it. I do have "loose" ankles though.

Regarding your comments about the food tasting shiity, just remember that its just fuel... not food. You'll get to eat plenty of good stuff, but will have to gag down shiit that you don't like once in a while. If you like eating meat you'll be happy as I'm gonna recommend that you get 1-1.5 lbs of meat/day along w/ other protein sources from whey, eggs, nuts, etc.

Overall man, just get onto a functional strength program w/ some hypertrophy elements and work on building your base up for a year or so. You're still VERY young and have a ton of time to grow and develop. Just be consistent and train and eat smart.