Crips Leader Executed...Was it Justifiable?

[Derek Flint]

Also, is there any evidence that anything "Tookie" did helped deter gang-violence?

Compare that with the gang he helped co-found (co-find?) and the 100's or possibly 1000's of murders the Crips commited.

Not to mention the rapes, robberies, beatings, drug-dealing and the damage to society, morally, physically, emontionally and economically.

 

[DJ_in_making]

Did u guys see that dude?! Why in the hell did he need a gang in the first place? IHe's like a 1 man gang right there!!1

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by Derek Flint
I can't understand why the Black community rallied around this guy.

Lack of quality leadership. People are looking for a cause, any cause that gives them meaning; purpose. Consider the current leaders of the community. They can't compare to a Malcolm or a Martin. Their assassinations have turned "the movement" onto its ear.

Yeah, there are others who may have the capacity to become better influences to the community but unfortunately they are all politicians "on the wrong side" of government. They are ostracized as being sell outs to the system.

It's sad, the work of Malcolm and Martin was to integrate the culture into that same system. Now that people are there, they're denounced. Sometimes people can't win for loosing.

Well, I've done my part to turn this into a political thread. Shoot the flaming arrows before the thread is closed.

 

[Porky]

Writing those books didn't redeem him for the shotgun murders of those 4 people or for founding arguably the worst gang in the history of America.

BUT - if he had lived, who knows what good he might have done with his books and the message he was sending, whether it was heart-felt or only skin-deep?

I'm not saying he should have been set free - that fucker deserved to rot in prison for the rest of his life in the worst legal conditions possible. However, Worker is right - he could have actually saved some lives if they'd let him live.

I'm not sad he's dead and I bear no misconceptions that he was innocent. I have no idea if he was even redeemed. But, for selfish reasons or not, he was doing some good in the world, and should have been given life without parole.

Finally, Bling, for the sake of the rest of us who are trying to have a mature discussion, please stay out of this thread with your "liberal this" and "jesse jackson that" bullshit. you're ruining this for everybody and coming off as an ass.

 

[Paintballguy]

I'm glad they killed him... He deserved it.

I mean comeon, he started one of the worst gangs in the country and killed 4 innocent people. Its not like there was questionable evidence.

 

[backbreaker]

I mean... anytime you kill more than one person you can't really knock the death penalty, regardless of who it was.

It's good that he turned his life around somewhat, but he still has to suffer the consiquences of what he did earlier.

I don't liked the dealth penalty, not because I don't believe they should die, ,because I do... however, who knows how many innocent people have been put to death... I wouldn't be able to sleep at night

 

[PRMoon]

He deserved to die. Yes he wrote childrens books telling them to stay out of gangs but he was in no way redeemed. He refused to "snitch" on the rest of his gang members which is the only way I could picture him being redeemed but at the same time that would of gotten him killed.

He was on the road do death and disaster ever since he founded the crips.

 

[WORKEROUTER]

The point is simple.

Redeemed or not, he DID have something VERY valuable to offer to society. Killing him destroyed this.

 

[piranha45]

he should have been killed off years ago.

 

[Shiftkey]

BTW, I used to live about a mile from San Quentin Prison, which is in one of the most affluent parts of CA, and some of us went up there some years ago to talk to with some of the anti-death penatly protestors who were there protesting a different execution.

Trying to use reason and logic with these people was the most pointless exerices ever imaginable.

I think you have to be at least a little bit nutty to stand outside in a big group yelling slogans and waving home made signs

Not all anti-death penalty people are illogical.

 

[PRMoon]

Originally posted by WORKEROUTER
The point is simple.

Redeemed or not, he DID have something VERY valuable to offer to society. Killing him destroyed this.

What did he have that was of value? Since the publishing of his books gang violence has gone UP.

The only thing valueable that he had that I can see was information concerning the structure and memeber names of the crips and he wasn't giving any of that up.

Roll on 8.

 

[Derek Flint]

I can't believe how people are being conned by this con.

"He had something valuable to offer"

BS

And, do you think "Tookie" would have been so "generous" had he not been caught?

This guy was a punk and a thug, who had nothing of value to offer society.

Don't believe the hype - it was all a desperate effort to save the life of a cold-blooded murderer.

Ask these people what they think "Tookie" has to offer society:

Click here

 

[Nocturnal]

The government's primary purpose is to protect the rights of its citizens.

The moment he initiated force and violated the victims rights' by killing them was the moment he surrendered any claim to his own rights, including the right to his own life. It is in the people's best interest to deal with him by killing him, in order to avoid the steep price of keeping him alive and in containment.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by WORKEROUTER
The point is simple.

Redeemed or not, he DID have something VERY valuable to offer to society. Killing him destroyed this.

I completely missed it. What did he have to offer? Does it compare to the likes he took or those he corrupted?

 

[Shiftkey]

Originally posted by Nocturnal
It is in the people's best interest to deal with him by killing him, in order to avoid the steep price of keeping him alive and in containment.

I used to argue this point in the favor of the death penalty. Then the person I was debating showed me credible evidence that it is more expensive to execute a prisoner than to keep them in prison for the rest of their life. Unfortunately I didn't save those links, but it's an idea you may want to look into.

 

[Centaurion]

Due to all the appeals etc, it's actually more expensive to execute prisoners than to keep them alive.

I think Tookie was a useless piece of ****. He killed 4 people. Think about it. HE KILLED 4 PEOPLE! Nothing he does can redeem him for that.

 

[Derek Flint]

That's why we should streamline the process.

Sitting on Death Row for 24 years while tying up the courts with frivilous appeals is costly, not to mention unfair to the family of the people he killed.

Tookie should have been taking the big dirt nap long, long ago.

Here's some pics of Tookie's "work":

http://www.johnandkenshow.com/blogimages/tookievictim3adweb.jpg

http://www.johnandkenshow.com/blogimages/tookievictim1adweb.jpg

http://www.johnandkenshow.com/blogimages/tookievictim2adweb.jpg

I bet those pics weren't in his kids books.

 

[CLOONEY]

Its a hard call.

People change.

He did win a nobel peace prize and most definately saved lives.

The man also took lives.

Depends how you see it I guess. In Australia the man would have probably been out on parole in a few more years. In the United States, he received the death scentence.

He certainly did a lot of time for his crimes, but lets face it, isnt the point of jail to try and change one from their criminal ways? Most of the time it does not work, for him it did (or at least seemed too).

Either way, its a tough call. The man did both bad and good in the world.

And like I said before, people do change.

Then again, tell that to the families of people he murdered!

As far as him founding the crips, if he didnt take his large part in the founding of the crips, a gang of the sort would have been founded anyways. And if it wasnt, even more gang killings would have taken place as there would have been even more gang warfare between numerous smaller gangs. With possibly, far larger detrimental consequences. Either way, these "gang bangers" choose this way of life for whatever reason, and as the saying goes, "you do the crime, you do the time", weather that means death or loss of liberty!

 

[Adone]

Originally posted by Bling
Unless you can prove you're innocent, you take your punishment.

Actually, it should be "Unless someone can prove you're guilty, you are innocent"...

 

[diplomatic_lies]

Damn, after passing the death sentence, Arnold should have said, "Hasta la vista, baby!".