Covid 19 Vaccine

[BackInTheGame78]

The difference between a man taking charge of his life and weighing the odds and a man viewing data through fear.
Others always think you are stupid or dumb or ignorant for making the best choice for you. How could they think otherwise. They believe their thoughts are the center of the universe.

Good luck...you are about to be social outcasts. Modern day lepers from biblical times. People are about done talking about it. Now they just will shun you.

After months of vaccine incentives, nation changes course

A rising chorus of states, cities and private sector titans have implemented new vaccine requirements for their employees and patrons. It marks a new, less negotiable phase in the fight against the coronavirus, after months of cajoling and material goodies leading the vaccination campaign...

www.yahoo.com

 

[mjb3617]

Good luck...you are about to be social outcasts. Modern day lepers from biblical times. People are about done talking about it. Now they just will shun you.

After months of vaccine incentives, nation changes course

A rising chorus of states, cities and private sector titans have implemented new vaccine requirements for their employees and patrons. It marks a new, less negotiable phase in the fight against the coronavirus, after months of cajoling and material goodies leading the vaccination campaign...

www.yahoo.com

The government failed to convince people to take the vaccine so now they're getting the private sector to do their bidding.

If you do not see the issues with this, then you neither deserve or enjoy your freedom.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Do you think that is a helpful post?

Do you think that people who choose not to get vaccinated SHOULD be shunned?

Because that is exactly what it sounds like. Be careful what you wish for - things can turn 180 on a dime, and you may need help one day from a "social outcast".

If I choose not to get vaccinated and am treated poorly, you can bet that is what I will give in return.


You are calling for some serious societal problems here. Very serious, as in civil unrest serious.

Not sure honestly. You are making a decision that will likely lead to a virus mutating into one that will likely be able to evade the vaccine that was developed and was very effective until others like you(mostly not through their own fault as India's vaccine program was beyond terrible) allowed it to mutate into it's current form likely leading to many more unnecessary deaths that could have been prevented.

So you are cool with having your own freedoms but other people as a group don't have the same freedom. Why can we not choose to not associate with the unvaccinated? Always funny how that works.

When society at large chooses what is and isn't acceptable you can choose to be a part of it or not. And the consequences for choosing not are ones that you need to accept. Again. It's your choice. People choose to live off the grid because they don't want to be a part of that society for various reasons. Cool...they do their thing and make their own choice. The difference is they aren't hurting others by their choice, unvaccinated people are.

And trust me... society at large is far closer to my thinking than yours at this point. You are in the dwindling minority. Kinda like the people thinking crypto is going to be gone in 5 years.

 

[mjb3617]

Not sure honestly. You are making a decision that will likely lead to a virus mutating into one that will likely be able to evade the vaccine that was developed and was very effective until others like you(mostly not through their own fault as India's vaccine program was beyond terrible) allowed it to mutate into it's current form likely leading to many more unnecessary deaths that could have been prevented.

So you are cool with having your own freedoms but other people as a group don't have the same freedom. Why can we not choose to not associate with the unvaccinated? Always funny how that works.

When society at large chooses what is and isn't acceptable you can choose to be a part of it or not. And the consequences for choosing not are ones that you need to accept. Again. It's your choice. People choose to live off the grid because they don't want to be a part of that society for various reasons. Cool...they do their thing and make their own choice. The difference is they aren't hurting others by their choice, unvaccinated people are.

And trust me... society at large is far closer to my thinking than yours at this point. You are in the dwindling minority. Kinda like the people thinking crypto is going to be gone in 5 years.

You can choose to associate with whomever you please, but when you begin restricting what people can or cannot do based on vaccination status, you have crossed a line.

When you start mandating that people "show their papers" in regards to vaccination status, that is not freedom.

If the hysteria surrounding the virus, the suppression of information that runs counter to the preferred narrative, the hypocrisy and double standard of public officials in regards to covid mandates, and the overall narrative of do as I say, not as I do weren't so prevalent, you would most likely see a more cooperative stance on vaccination.

You keep preaching how the unvaccinated are the problem and that's your opinion. But consider the optics of your opinion in the contexts I just illustrated. Unless you are completely brain washed to believe everything you're being told, you'll see my point. If not, then we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

You can choose to associate with whomever you please, but when you begin restricting what people can or cannot do based on vaccination status, you have crossed a line.

When you start mandating that people "show their papers" in regards to vaccination status, that is not freedom.

If the hysteria surrounding the virus, the suppression of information that runs counter to the preferred narrative, the hypocrisy and double standard of public officials in regards to covid mandates, and the overall narrative of do as I say, not as I do weren't so prevalent, you would most likely see a more cooperative stance on vaccination.

You keep preaching how the unvaccinated are the problem and that's your opinion. But consider the optics of your opinion in the contexts I just illustrated. Unless you are completely brain washed to believe everything you're being told, you'll see my point. If not, then we will have to agree to disagree.

Really? Try sending your kid to school without them being vaccinated against about 8-14 things depending on the state you live in and let me know how that works for you. People already ARE excluded for vaccination status. Have been for decades.

Comical that people think this would be something new.

 

[Billtx49]

Let’s let it play out. All of our decisions have been made. Over half the Marine Corps refuses. Which of you are going to take their place? I haven’t even looked at the other services.

Yes, DOD and top military brass are actively pursuing mandatory vaccines, and some soldiers have previously refused voluntarily vaccination, but Not one person will take their place. Thinking they can quit or will be fired is naive at best. When the USMC orders you, you do it. Period.
Welcome to the real world.
Semper Fi

 

[Fruitbat]

For the record, I am comfortable and believe in the vaccine. I believe this is a genuine pandemic, and I take it on face value.

I do, however, respect anyone’s right not to take a vaccine. It’s up to them. It’s they who will pay, if they are comfortable with the risk, so be it. The numbers are small.

a fair way would be to allocate a certain amount of hospital resource to vaccinated and non vaccinated. Therefore the unvaccinated would not clog up hospital beds for the vaccinated. Or simply refuse Covid related treatment to those unvaccinated - that would be the ultimate fair treatment.

as for this two tier system, definitely don’t want that. It’s not fair, however, that an unvaccinated person could take an ICU bed from a vaccinated person.
ICU isn’t just for Covid. Imagine your child puncturing a lung in a car crash but the beds been taken by an anti vaxxer.

basically the consequences of your actions should be met fairly. That’s why I say, any Covid treatment for an anti vaxxer should either be limited or at their personal expense. No insurance, no state cover. Pay the price and put your money where your mouth is. That would be fair.

I write this from the position of a person with a socialised health system - NHS. Everyone gets the same healthcare essentially. This is why here, being un vaxxed actually does impact others. It takes resource from others.

you can’t seriously expect the same treatment as someone who has taken the risk to protect themselves by taking a vaccine. Let the action meet its consequences.

a simple disclaimer that not accepting a vaccine means limited or last in the queue treatement for Covid would be fair - and you could weigh this up for yourself. Of course, if you don’t believe it’s a risk, it’s overblown, your immune system is strong, or it’s a dangerous experimental vaccine etc, you don’t believe Covid is a risk, so hence you will take the risk that if you’re wrong, you are likely to be in trouble. If you’re thinking that you want to have the same treatment but not have the jab, that’s called having ones cake and eating it too!

what wouldn’t be fair is people refusing the vaccine being treated equally to someone who has in good faith taken the vaccine.

I would assume all would agree this is a fair and logical solution to the problem.

 

[Fruitbat]

Most of us are in the US.

So if you don’t have healthcare, and you’re struggling to breathe, without cover they leave you to die?

I thought you had some level of cover for people without insurance?

even so, within your insurance pool, the insurer could prioritise treatmennt for vaccinated.

insurance and the NHS are the same anyway, the difference is we pay by tax and everyone is in. Within your insurance pool you could achieve the same result.

Capacity is limited, an insurer would be within their rights to prioritise jabbed people.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

apples and oranges. Unproven vaccination tech that hasn’t gone through proper testing. Standard vaccinations are proven. A plethora of previous attempts were abandoned because they weren’t safe.
Obviously we are just yacking and yacking and it means nothing. Let’s let it play out. All of our decisions have been made. Over half the Marine Corps refuses. Which of you are going to take their place? I haven’t even looked at the other services.

It's been around since the 70s. It's been tested far better than most think.

 

[Fruitbat]

If you are poor, you get it for free through the healthcare act and the tax payers pay for it through taxation.

People around the world come here to get quality treatments. I guess their healthcare isn’t that great.

we get the same. We spend a lot less per capita on healthcare than you do though.

the us spends 18% of your GDP on healthcare and we spend 10.2%


U.K. are 15th in the world healthcare index.
USA are 31st, one behind Malaysia.

I would still wager that your specialist treatements are world leading as you have one of the highest GPD per capita in the world.
Hence your rich are really, really rich, and the best doctors will go to work there.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Hey then you are good to go. Why tell me? I don’t care what they think. Our medical profession kills more people than auto accidents. Pharmaceutical industry kill so many people with their drugs, especially pain killers that I don’t think you could add it all up. I say keep going with what you do.

But for sure, I seriously doubt that you would be the one holding people at gun point or holding them down so they get a shot. You wouldn’t dare risk your life for that one.

This isn't a drug. It's a vaccine. Huge difference. And if you understood the technology it is literally nearly impossible for it to have any type of negative effect that lasts longer than 8 weeks.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Hey you are good to go. I couldn’t care less. Want to see long term like our laws demand.
Understand it very well.
The mere fact that there is a social pressure to get it is enough to make me recoil.
Social pressure in a failing world leads to more failure.

Social pressure comes when the time to prevent a global catastrophe is running short.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Actually we don’t. I was deployed three times. Our swear in oath clearly covers it. We only follow laws. Nothing here is a law. I am highly active in veterans affairs and high suicide rates. You know nothing.
STFU. What were you, an 01, motor pool, supply? A reservist? Keep politics out of this.
Do you even know what your General Orders are? Top brass are politicians. They want to keep their jobs. You are bringing political poges into this? We will let you know.

You’re just a dude behind a computer or phone.

Not a law yet. But may be very soon.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

In your opinion and what you’ve been told.

Apparently only once we reach the level of the Black Death that wipes out half the world's population will qualify for you. Or is that too little still? Maybe if it's only you and your neighborhood left?

 

[Fruitbat]

In your opinion and what you’ve been told.

Do you dispute that smoking causes cancer and disease?
Do you believe obesity causes illness?
Do you believe that rusty nails cause tetanus?
Do you believe that poor sanitation causes dysentery?

These are similarly things we’ve been told, yet we believe them.

 

[RickTheToad]

True, but if kept in proportion to unvaccinated, it's like .1% (as what the heading of the first article says if anyone reads the paragraph).

The problem has always been about statistics. Serious side-effects are rated in various documents of being in decimal point percentages. Break-through cases are also in decimal point percentages. If it was something like 50/50% or even 10/90 that would be a big deal. The USA has 350 million people on it. Hundreds are like a handful with a population like that.

The problem with social media, grapevine, etc... you tend to hear a concentration of stories so that even something that's .1/.01% chance of happening to you will feel like a 50/50 chance of happening when it's a rare chance.

Stats are usually flawed. Just showing that a jab or three will not protect a person from the virus. It will not even protect a person from going to the hospital. As the virus mutates the original vaccine becomes weaker. Thus, a booster is always and will always be needed. It's a catch-22 and the politicians are doing everything wrong. Fauci should be remanded and sent back to NIH. Let the CDC director, his boss, provide appropriate guidance. How she stands there while allowing her subordinate state something completely different at times than her is crazy.

Mark my words, when the hysteria calms down the politicians who are locking people down again will pay. Cuomo and de Blasio are done. Cuomo will be gone in a couple of months and de Blasio is retiring at the end of the year. There will be no negative consequences for these two. However, the other elected officials will have something coming towards them when we're past the hysteria. How long do you think a population of 332 million people will take being told what to do, where to do it and how to live? This is not the USSR, Russia, Cuba or China.

This is not a political post as both sides are crazy. This is a logical post. Red or blue, they are both clueless in this. FYI, they came to me today and said they wanted me to get the vaccine or leave. I said are you sure, because I will resign within 24 hours if you'd like. I am sure all the doctors, nurses and other PA's here would love the additional workload. Not to mention, I am sure most will also join me. The HR admin got back to me and said, we're just requesting everyone to be tested every other day who doesn't want to get the vaccine, but it's strongly encouraged. I said, fine, test all you like. However, that vaccine is not getting into my body.

Nurses, PAs and doctors in NYC are leaving because of de Blasio's vaccine mandate. Boston, MA governor and dozens of other cities and states have also said the mandate imposed by Cuomo and de Blasio is ridiculous. Prob. should rethink this and start listening to people who actually know what they are saying and doing. Fauci is a major problem. This dude needs to be fired! Walensky seems much more on the ball than this dude. He changes his tune every freaking day. How can anyone take guidance from this dude?

 

[BackInTheGame78]

If it isn’t made into a law by the legislative branch then it’s just a mandated idea from a non governing elected body. States are not required to follow.

Just like North Dakota doesn’t follow OSHA. They have their own public safety rules and governing. They didn’t even have to wear masks along with some other states. What’s their rate of death compared to other states with lockdowns? There, that should give you something else to go sift through the degenerate mews media we have. We are independent states. Not a collective morass. It is this way by design. You and your state cannot tell others what to do.

Hard to spread diseases when you live 20 miles from your nearest neighbor and there are more cows than people. Population centers with many people in close proximity always are at greatest risk. C'mon man...do better than that.

 

[corrector]

This is a logical post. Red or blue, they are both clueless in this.

How is the Red clueless on this? The hospital should provide like $ 1 Million dollar vaccine injury insurance if they are asking people to take a jab.

 

[Bokanovsky]

Do you dispute that smoking causes cancer and disease?
Do you believe obesity causes illness?
Do you believe that rusty nails cause tetanus?
Do you believe that poor sanitation causes dysentery?

These are similarly things we’ve been told, yet we believe them.

Do you believe that masks are ineffective against COVID? (Medical "expert" Anthony Fauci said so just last year)
Do you believe that COVID came from a wet market (and not the nearby biolab with notoriously lax safety protocols that was conducting experiments on coronaviruses)?
Do you believe that there are 137 genders and that women can have d!cks and men can "chest feed"?
Do you believe that gay people are "born that way" even though there is no evidence of a "gay gene"?

There are many things that we are told that are complete and utter nonsense. This is why some people are skeptical about what the so-called experts say about vaccines.

 

[Fruitbat]

Do you believe that masks are ineffective against COVID? (Medical "expert" Anthony Fauci said so just last year)
Do you believe that COVID came from a wet market (and not the nearby biolab with notoriously lax safety protocols that was conducting experiments on coronaviruses)?
Do you believe that there are 137 genders and that women can have d!cks and men can "chest feed"?
Do you believe that gay people are "born that way" even though there is no evidence of a "gay gene"?

There are many things that we are told that are complete and utter nonsense. This is why some people are skeptical about what the so-called experts say about vaccines.

none of the things you mention are mainstream scientific ideas. They are ideas which are reported widely by certain media outlets for the very fact that they stand out as being odd.

The above are matters of opinion. Most of them are coming out of non scientific disciplines.

If this is your view, we might as well do away with science altogether.

the reason you aren’t dying at 43 in a pile of your own shyt with rotten teeth is because the scientific method works.

the moment Europe had an enlightenment and stopped following religious dogma birthed the greatest civilisation in the modern era.

If you’re pulling a few off the wall ideas which aren’t even coming from scientists for the most part, then you might as well go full Ted Kazynski!