Couples Counseling - Calling Rollo Tomassi

[Nutz]

I remember reading something RT wrote a while back about how counseling is a waste of time and if the relationship had gotten to that point that it's already doomed. Can you guys give me a revamp of what he wrote and/or post the link to that post?

 

[runner83]

RT will get the exact link. I can't find it.

Basically comes down to the fact that attraction is not a negotiation or compromise, it is spontaneous.

If you are not attracted to someone, all the logic of counselling is not going to help one bit (especially if you are a woman, driven so strongly by feelings).

Negotiating or attempting to compromise (oh ok honey, if you agree to have s!x 3 times a week, as long as I am more sensitive to your feelings) is for chumps.

It basically comes down to another of RT's rules:

Whoever care least controls the relationship.


This one is also gold:

Iron Rule of Tomassi #3

Any woman who makes you wait for sex, or by her actions implies she is making you wait for sex; the sex is NEVER worth the wait.

When a woman makes you wait for sex you are not her highest priority. Sexuality is spontaneous chemical reaction between two parties, not a process of negotiation. It's sex first, then relationship, not the other way around. A woman who wants to ƒuck you will find a way to ƒuck you. She will fly across the country, crawl under barbwire, climb in through your second story bedroom window, ƒuck the sh!t out of you and wait patiently inside your closet if your wife comes home early from work - women who want to ƒuck will find a way to ƒuck. The girl who tells you she wants a relationship first is the same girl who ƒucked the hot guy in the foam cannon party in Cancun on spring break half an hour after meeting him.

If a girl is that into you she'll ƒuck regardless of ASD or having her friends in the room videotaping it at a frat party. All women can be sluts, you just have to be the right guy to bring it out in them, and this happens before you go back to her place. If you have to plead your case cuddling and spooning on the bed or getting the occasional peck on the cheek, you need to go back to square one and start fresh.

 

[Zarky]

Keep in mind that there are two types of relationships:

1) Where the girl wants to screw the guy.
2) Where the girl wants a "partner" to help her through life.

Couples counseling is not for relationship #1.

 

[OamImrsNemo]

Originally Posted by Rollo Tomassi
Iron Rule of Tomassi #3

Any woman who makes you wait for sex, or by her actions implies she is making you wait for sex; the sex is NEVER worth the wait.

When a woman makes you wait for sex you are not her highest priority. Sexuality is spontaneous chemical reaction between two parties, not a process of negotiation. It's sex first, then relationship, not the other way around. A woman who wants to ƒuck you will find a way to ƒuck you. She will fly across the country, crawl under barbwire, climb in through your second story bedroom window, ƒuck the sh!t out of you and wait patiently inside your closet if your wife comes home early from work - women who want to ƒuck will find a way to ƒuck. The girl who tells you she wants a relationship first is the same girl who ƒucked the hot guy in the foam cannon party in Cancun on spring break half an hour after meeting him.

If a girl is that into you she'll ƒuck regardless of ASD or having her friends in the room videotaping it at a frat party. All women can be sluts, you just have to be the right guy to bring it out in them, and this happens before you go back to her place. If you have to plead your case cuddling and spooning on the bed or getting the occasional peck on the cheek, you need to go back to square one and

Yes but it also seems this girl is never relationship type. She will go through all those things to fvck other men too.... At least thats what I see....

 

[Bible_Belt]

A good counselor will actually tell you to break up if the relationship has little chance of being healthy...which is the same advice you'd get on sosuave.

 

[sodbuster]

Since a woman is never wrong, if she doesn't listen to counseling-- you are wasting time and money,the only advantage is---- you get time to hide some money and make a list/move out the stuff you want to keep after the divorce. Copies of pictures,legal papers, guns, trophies etc.

Search counseling

 

[Colossus]

A good counselor will actually tell you to break up if the relationship has little chance of being healthy...which is the same advice you'd get on sosuave.

This is true. I've never been to "relationship" counseling, but I'm sure there are situations where it could prove helpful. I think it really depends on how willing both people are and who the counselor is. You need someone who wont bullsh!t either of you and milk you session after session for money.

 

[Nutz]

My take on it is that attraction is NOT a choice, and no amount of counseling will make your SO attracted to you again. That's the first thing that's required for a relationship. All the rest are just levels of compromise and compatibility. Without that raw animal attraction the rest is for naught.

 

[Burroughs]

Keep in mind that there are two types of relationships:

1) Where the girl wants to screw the guy.
2) Where the girl wants a "partner" to help her through life.

Couples counseling is not for relationship #1.

Good point.

To add to the confusion: I imagine a fair number of guys are clueless enough to believe their girl is #1 for them when she is actually #2.

The only way to effectively clarify this solution is to have legalized prostitution in all 50 states. That would go a long way to equalize the male/female sexual-social imbalance. I can't imagine 90% of guys would consider marriage in the current climate if we had an Amsterdam style system in place.

 

[Victory Unlimited]

Couples counseling is always a dicey proposition.

Can it work?

Sometimes.

Does it work MOST times?

Probably not.

But a lot of times, the answer to that last question depends on what you consider a "working relationship". In my view, a working relationship is one that RARELY seems like work. A working relationship, again in "my view", should be a relationship where both parties experience more good times, smooth sailing, and mostly "pain-free" compromises.

And this is not to say that relationships don't require sacrifices, adjustments, and a certain amount of selflessness from time to time. It's probably not a popular notion with many men even here in the Mature Man Forum, but the reality is---------------THAT'S part of being an ADULT, really.

But the trade off should always be that the two of you should be happier, more fulfilled, and better off in IMPORTANT ways "together" than you'd be "apart".

Sure, there'll be times where one person has to bite the WHOLE bullet on some things----but those cases should be rare, and it should NEVER always be the SAME person. iF ANYBODY is in a situation like this, then that person is definitely NOT in a relationship that I would think of as a "good" one.

The potential problem that marriage counselors face by the time that they finally enter the picture is that either one person in the relationship doesn't really give a damn ABOUT the relationship anymore---------or, one person in the relationship is on a mission to use the marriage counselor to further their own "one-sided" agenda.

This is what makes couples counseling dicey.

By contrast, when couples are already healthy, they're usually too busy to even consider couples counseling. Instead, when they have trouble working through problems, they tend to use their foundational physical attraction, their compatible core values, and their TRUE commitment as inspiration and motivation to SOLVE the problems THEMSELVES.

You see, folks in strong relationships tend to be ABLE to settle their bullshyt at home and behind closed doors----MOST of the time. That's why you'll sometimes never even know they've even been having any problems. And sometimes, they don't even tell their closest friends about what's been going on until long AFTER that crisis is over.

Why?

Because couples in relationships that are truly committed to each other DO NOT tend to elevate the danger-level of every internal skirmish that they may have with each other to the status of being "A REAL THREAT" to the continuance of their relationship.






PEACE...one day.




V.U.

 

[Warrior74]

I'll tell you a story about one of my coworkers. He's a good ole boy who likes to hunt and fish and smoke a little herb every now and then. He said when he was younger his wife was on is back every day, nagging him about this and that to the point where he just would start coming home late or spend the weekend out hunting or fishing. That really burned her up. She hated his hunting and fishing and wanted to make him stop. Finally she dragged him to couples counseling. He said he went into it thinking this lady counselor was going to beat up on him because he's the man and the man is always wrong. But he was pleasantly surprised when the counselor told his wife that she was the problem. And that if she wanted to stay married she has to let him do his thing and she has to find something of her own to do. The man she fell in love with likes to fish and hunt and smoke doobie every now and then and if that's all he's doing wrong then the problem is in her head.

He said it made his wife take a step back and take a look at her behaviors and motivations. She was trying to keep up with the jones and wanted him to act like mr. Jones instead of Mr. Good Ole boy. She realized she did have a good thing and he said now she's his biggest supporter, helping him prepare when he goes on his fishing tournaments.

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I think it depends on the situation and the people involved.

From personal experience, by the time my ex wanted to go to counseling. I had had enough. Nothing was going to fix it. Hope it works out for you.

Good luck.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

marriage / relationship counseling = last stop before toll

Have a read of the Desire Dynamic thread for a good primer on this. Men tend to initiate or agree to counseling because they see it as a last resort to get back to a previous time where he had his wife's genuine desire to ƒuck him. Women tend to see counseling as a means to control men's behaviors and need some kind of authoritative arbitrator to convince him to comply with her frame.

In both of these scenarios the key element that's lost on them both is a lack of genuine desire. As I've stated in many a thread, genuine desire cannot be negotiated. All counseling becomes is a more formal means of negotiations. It makes it worse in that counseling codifies desire based on and mitigated by obligation. "You do the dishes twice a week, and I promise to give you a blow job on wednesday nights." That's behavioral modification based on mutual exchange, not genuine desire to perform. Now mix in more nebulous terms for compliance like "be more sensitive to my needs and I'll be more attentive to yours" and you can see the slippery slope more clearly.

 

[Burroughs]

.

In both of these scenarios the key element that's lost on them both is a lack of genuine desire. .

You are a 1000% percent right.

Trouble is many marriages are initiated with very small amounts of desire to begin with especially on the part of aging women reaching their expiration date. The man is a provider not a stud. How can a women ever feel anything for such a chump.

But I have enough empathy for the chump/AFC to question the validity of an economic/legal system that PROPS UP female hypergamy when PRODUCTIVITY is still largely initiated by males.

Its interesting how many marriages begin to crumble as soon as the man hits a rocky patch... even among high net worth folks: His venture capital money dries up, he doesn't get the promotion, the merger doesn't go through...its at THAT MOMENT that the women insists they need to go into counseling...a better solution might be a good ******* with aggressive suction.

Dave Chapelle's 4 criteria for women

1. suck ****
2. lick balls
3. make sandwich
4. don't talk so much