Could really use support, stuck in a huge rut.

[NewAndImproved]

I spent the first two years out of college going to big clubs. Had some success but a lot of the time girls just flaked. I think I read somewhere that some girls have a rule that they just won't "date" someone they met at a club. Who knows?

My third year now I've become a regular at a couple of local bars as well as expanded my social circle, becoming friends with girls for really the first time ever. Actually, in the past I had girls who were friends but I didn't want them to be friends, lol. Now I put them in the friend zone but there's still that sexual tension.

I'm much more successful now. I really think that if you're in your mid 20s+ you should start focusing on social circle game.

Good luck!

 

[Droz88]

I'll be brutally honest. You've been working at it for 4-5 years and aren't progressing. You should be well past the point where you are making progress by now.

The underlying problem to all of this is that you don't see what you're doing wrong.

What you need to do is to find an experienced wingman who can point out your flaws. You need someone on the side who can pick out the details you can't see, be brutally honest, and lay them out to you.

FIND that person. Just like a person trainer who helps those who haven't been able to build muscle after years of exercising, you need to find someone who is successful and experienced at pickup who can help you out.

All the pointers you'll get on this forum will be on the basic stuff (work out, get hobbies, become more confident yada yada). After reading tons of stuff out there I'm sure you know about all this stuff. I'm guessing this is a smaller thing that none us will be able to pick up from what you write in a post.

Thank you for your honesty, jhl.
That would be ideal. I’ll see what I can do if I can find someone. My current roommate whose banging his gf seems to have a new gf every month so maybe if I talk to him one day we can go out. The problem with him though is that he’s avoidant of all of us other roommates and every conversation I’ve had with him so far has been fleeting. If, however, I find another guy who is good at this then I’ll try to do what you suggest. In the past, I’ve gone out with other roommates and I kind of “made” them be my wingmen but they all sucked…didn’t even have the balls to talk to a woman.
After thinking about it more, the case may also be that I never dedicated myself to this “game” and self improvement too much. I mean I have read enough and have practiced enough to overcome my fear of approaching a woman but at some point after that I just stopped reading and developing. As you can tell I’m a new user here with a small post count so that might be an indicator of how active I really was. The last 3-4 days I’ve been reading these forums and other guides for at least 4 hours a day and I can already see a change in my attitude. Perhaps If I keep this up I’ll get even better results than a wingman.

While the above is all good input, I should point out that at this point your success of lack thereof might not have much or anything at all to do with your game. It might be a matter of target audience. Mike32ct pointed out something similar.

It might not even be that there is "one last thing" wrong with your game that you are not being honest about - although I respect the comment above me and it might be right, I'm simply presenting another view. Except if you define that "one last thing" as what I'm about to say.

Two thoughts:

• Even if your game isn't bad, how much you reap depends on how much you sow. If your social circle isn't big - mine isn't - or you don't go out too much - I don't - you won't pull as much as other guys who do.
• The target audience thing from above; as per your age, your 'target audience' probably is the 18-25 age range. In this range, what Mike32ct said applies fully; in my experience, if you're not the loudest most obnoxious guy in the room, you just won't succeed. For the girls aged 18-25, it's not about what your qualities truly are (even counting 'being alpha'), it's about how well you pretend to have these qualities and how exciting you are.

I really feel for you because it's similar for me, although I've pulled a bit more. My social circle isn't big and I don't need it to be, I have few but good friends. I don't go clubbing because I hate it, I meet people through ballroom dancing, by chance or through my peers. But, still, it's not a big group to pick from.

What you will eventually realize, especially if you're smarter, is that this is no big loss, as most girls are just a bother to talk to. Of course, this is not what you're after; you want to get your knob wet. But eventually you will appreciate that having your peace and quiet is a thousand times better than having to listen to whatever is going through some pretty girl's empty head just to get it around your penis.

Especially when the few girls that are NOT a pain in the bottom to talk to make up for it.

Thanks Eastwind. I’m also now thinking that there isn’t “one last problem”. After thinking about what jhl wrote and now reading your line of “reading what you sow”, I’m getting convinced that I just never devoted myself enough to this to begin with. I think I did get a return on what I put in, meaning I would read an article here and there and would talk to a girl here and there, usually drunk. This site is loaded with probably the best information any man can ask for about living and I’m just starting to realize it now. What you said about being loud and obnoxious I don’t really find to be true. I’ve seen a lot of cool dudes my age who have women hanging around them precisely because they have no ego and are “quietly confident”.

THIS.

Every time i enter a new social circle there is almost one girl in the group that i'm able to bang. MY downfall has been sealing the deal. But there's usually at least one single girl that is open to my approaches.

What you might need is a change in scenery. maybe you can't move, but have you tried increasing your social circle? You might want to join clubs, organizations, or sit in on a few classes (just for fun, not for credit) and chat up other students.

And if you make new guy friends, who knows, maybe they won't **** block you and introduce you to their friends who are girls.

Thats actually how i've been meeting most of the girls that I ask out. A guy friend invites me to his party and I hit on the girls there. I've also had a few of my older coworkers offer to hook me up with the girls they know.

More power to you, CostaDeSol. If that’s the case for you, then you are a person who can socialize and win people over and make them a close acquaintance or friend. I’ve never “stepped into a new social circle” and stayed there for a considerable period of time. I’ve been a loner almost my whole life except in elementary and middle school. After those years during high school I developed a very bad anxiety disorder and just kept to myself and have been like that ever since. I’m interested to hear about what you mean when you say your downfall has been sealing the deal. Can you elaborate on that?

I spent the first two years out of college going to big clubs. Had some success but a lot of the time girls just flaked. I think I read somewhere that some girls have a rule that they just won't "date" someone they met at a club. Who knows?

My third year now I've become a regular at a couple of local bars as well as expanded my social circle, becoming friends with girls for really the first time ever. Actually, in the past I had girls who were friends but I didn't want them to be friends, lol. Now I put them in the friend zone but there's still that sexual tension.

I'm much more successful now. I really think that if you're in your mid 20s+ you should start focusing on social circle game.

Good luck!

Good input, NewAndImproved. You, CostaDeSol, and others are all speaking of the same thing with expanding the social circle. I’ll definitely look into it. Any good guides out there that any of you would recommend?

 

[CostaDeSol]

More power to you, CostaDeSol. If that’s the case for you, then you are a person who can socialize and win people over and make them a close acquaintance or friend. I’ve never “stepped into a new social circle” and stayed there for a considerable period of time. I’ve been a loner almost my whole life except in elementary and middle school. After those years during high school I developed a very bad anxiety disorder and just kept to myself and have been like that ever since. I’m interested to hear about what you mean when you say your downfall has been sealing the deal. Can you elaborate on that?

I'm actually one of the biggest loners i know. But I've learned to step in and out of different social groups to get and learn what i need.

What i mean by sealing the deal is that I will meet plenty of girls but I don't play the game the right way after I first meet them. I get intimidated by good looking girls pretty easily, so i become very hesitant to ask them out.

Often, i meet a girl who seems into me, but i don't even ask for her number, and don't put up the effort to contact her on facebook.

And then when i do land a date, I usually get picky and get turned off by their personality and i decide not to push for a second date.

Good input, NewAndImproved. You, CostaDeSol, and others are all speaking of the same thing with expanding the social circle. I’ll definitely look into it. Any good guides out there that any of you would recommend?

what do you mean by guides? do you mean articles to read on the internet?

 

[CostaDeSol]

here's a good read from askmen.com

http://www.askmen.com/grooming/project/top-10-habits-that-let-you-meet-women.html

I've done all of them except for number 1. But i am working on it, so there is hope.

 

[Droz88]

Thanks for the link; I'll give it a read tomorrow after work. By guides I was talking about guides for expanding social circles.

So you've learned to just jump in and out of circles despite being a loner? That sounds like a very usefull skill you have that I would benefit from if I understood how you do it. If you care to explain your method I'm sure many of us here would appreciate it. It might be the guide I was asking about.

I can relate to everything else you said. Does it every feel like you are doing the right thing by not asking for a phone number or adding on facebook? To me it seems that that is "ignoring" them or "playing it cool" which many of the DJ stuff I've read said is good to do because it makes them want you more. And yes, like I said in my very first post in this thread, I have gone on dates and gotten picky and the date fizzled out. Sometimes I wonder if "getting picky" is just an excuse we are making up to avoid the challenge of escallating physical touch and getting rejected so we make that up so we do the rejecting first.

 

[jhl]

Your post count really doesn't have to do with where you're at. Don't put yourself down. You're halfway there.

I think that your open-mindedness to the situation and input of others are positive signs for improvement.

Good luck and I hope you can find a wingman!

 

[TillTheEndOfTime]

I'm much more successful now. I really think that if you're in your mid 20s+ you should start focusing on social circle game.

Bingo! If you're not successful making friends, how could you be successful with getting dates? The same rules apply, other than sexual escalation & attraction.

You don't want to be a loner hanging out at clubs every night trying to pick up women. Anyone who has tried that knows it is a losing battle on most nights. You can also usually pick those people out right away.

Besides, meeting through friends is the #1 way that people end up dating these days. So expanding your social circle is the best way to join that club and meet a decent girl.

 

[CostaDeSol]

So you've learned to just jump in and out of circles despite being a loner? That sounds like a very usefull skill you have that I would benefit from if I understood how you do it. If you care to explain your method I'm sure many of us here would appreciate it. It might be the guide I was asking about.

I would have to know more about you in order to give you tips that are specific to your situation. Otherwise I can only say broad things about what i do.

But speaking in general terms, I've been very successful in increasing my social circle by joining clubs or classes whether are for a political organization, art enthusiasts groups, a sports team, shared interests or hobbies. I usually just show up and try to engage both guys and girls and get to know people.

I never go in with an "i will get laid here" mentality, I usually just go for fun and the lays come naturally.

The things about clubs/groups is that they will only give you as much as you put in. The more effort you put in to it, the more it will reward you. So if you join a social group, prepare to host an event for it because people will respond positively to your efforts. I usually do help host events and i find that when i do, more people reach out to me, because they know that my place is where the party is at.

I can relate to everything else you said. Does it every feel like you are doing the right thing by not asking for a phone number or adding on facebook? To me it seems that that is "ignoring" them or "playing it cool" which many of the DJ stuff I've read said is good to do because it makes them want you more. And yes, like I said in my very first post in this thread, I have gone on dates and gotten picky and the date fizzled out. Sometimes I wonder if "getting picky" is just an excuse we are making up to avoid the challenge of escallating physical touch and getting rejected so we make that up so we do the rejecting first.

I think what has happened with me, is that I got used to thinking that after I meet a chick for the first time, i will soon run into her again at another party/social, so there is no need to connect with her well in person the FIRST time we meet.

so I guess i think "i'll see her around, no need to get her number now, I'll just get her number later."

BUT THEN i never do see her again, and so the introduction failed. I think i just need to be more aggressive that first time i meet them.

I do agree with you that "getting picky" is just finding reasons not to escalate. Its a bad habit, that i need to work on breaking. Its almost as i give up the chase just as we get off the starting line.