Could really use support, stuck in a huge rut.

[Droz88]

Thank you for taking the time to read this. Hopefully, if you ever find yourself in a similar rut then this thread might be of value to you.

24 years old here. The problem is that I'm utterly discouraged. I've been into this online PUA training thing for about 4-5 years now. I think i've had just about the worst results you can have for all that time reading this material and practicing talking to women. The only girl I've ever been with that I was sexually very attractive to was a 14 month relationship that started when I was 19 and ended with her dumping me. The ONLY reason I got her in the first place was because I read online that jerks get women and I was an aggressive jerk to her. We had sex all the time and it was ****ing great! Eventually that ran its course and I really haven't had a girl that i've been proud of since then. There have been about 6-7 more women that I slept with since her, and 4 of them I met through online sex sites...and none of them I considered attractive at all. The other 2 I picked up in bars. 1 had a nice body but she was too short to really get me excited (5'2"), and another one looked pretty fine in the clothing but once she took them off she had A LOT of extra loose skin on her that almost made me puke while having sex (she went from weighing over 250lbs to 150lbs in about 1 year).

There were quite a few other women who I have gone on dates with and nothing happened between us...usually because I wasn't really attracted to them in the first place and so our dates weren't that exciting. I see all these good looking ones walking around and I'm thinking "Are a lot of these girls going home alone as much as me or do they have a steady stream of men that they frequently have good sex with? And why the **** aren't I one of them for just ONE of this girls?"

So I read and read and read through all these lists of do's and dont's, articles on what women are attracted to, signs that she is interested, etc. And wow it's just all **** for me. Every girl that I find attractive rejects me in some way, while the girls I don't find attractive I could easily bed...which I have done already and can't bring myself to do anymore because bad and passionless sex is just painful to experience.

-I never buy women drinks
-I don't buy into their head games and don't tolerate their BS
-I'm 6'1" tall, athletic body, relatively average/good looking, smart
-I'm aware of my capabilities and am confident that I can do anything I put my mind to...except women apparently
-I'm independent, have my own car, support myself while going through school, etc.
-Good hygeine
-The list goes on with all this crap that I do that these articles tell me are what I should be doing in order to attract women. Basically I try to display as many alpha male traits as I can but the only women who come after me are the ones I'm not really attracted to.

God damn what the **** is left to do except to lose faith in all this DJ stuff? Either it doesn't work or there is something fundamentally wrong with my attitude or personality that turns good looking women away. I'll admit I really don't have friends although I do talk to some people (work, school, old roommates). I don't know what to do anymore; it's just so ****ing discouraging to not be getting the results I want....meanwhile I just moved into a new apartment a few weeks ago and one of my new roommates brings his hot girlfriend over and I have to listen to them having sex in the next room all night...believe me I've never worse than lying there, sexually frustrated, feeling defeated, and then having no choice but to listen to and visualize that hot girl screwing another guy just a few feet on the other side of my wall....truly a low point. I'm currently doing an internship right now while in school and my performance is going down because I'm just ****ing hopeless...if I can't get a good sexual release with a hot girls at least ONCE in 5 ****ing years after following all these tips and guides then I lose motivation to do anything.

At this point I'm willing to post pictures of myself for critcism or be as brutally honest with any questions you guys think would help to know the answer to.

Once again, that you for reading.

 

[Mike32ct]

This game can be brutal at times, so I know how you feel.

It's hard to pin down someone's exact issue from one post. I'm gonna have to just go with my gut.

1. The most common mistake guys make is overdoing the c&f. Please don't take offense to this, but you might be acting like too much of a jerk to girls. Women only tolerate that behavior from HOT guys. I'm sure you are a decent looking fella, but might not be considered by girls to be the true hot douchbag that could pull that off. So only females that find you hot (and are into jerky guys) will respond.

Drop the c&f and other forms of jerk game. Be normal, interesting and use kino. I never got a ONS by being a jerk. I'm not saying jerk game doesn't work. I'm saying women only respond to it from certain guys.

 

[Trump]

Bro first of all your attitude has to change ASAP. Your acting like girls owe you something because you've followed all the rules and play by the book. Girls don't care about that, girls care about how you make them FEEL at that moment in time.

Biggest thing is that you are valuing hot girls way too much. If can attract the ugly ones no problem, it means you have the ability. Don't value hot ones so much, knock them down, bruise their ego, and they will come. A hot girls ego is as tall as a building but as thin as glass, one crack in the right place and you're in.

And dude, why don't you tell your roommate gf to shut it down while you are sleeping? He will tell her to scream louder next time they have sex because he knows it annoys you and you won't do anything about it.

 

[Night-hawk]

Golden advise. All of it.

A hot girls ego is as tall as a building but as thin as glass, one crack in the right place and you're in.

NICE

 

[mikey2012]

Bang a HO and turn the streak around .

 

[Droz88]

This game can be brutal at times, so I know how you feel.

It's hard to pin down someone's exact issue from one post. I'm gonna have to just go with my gut.

1. The most common mistake guys make is overdoing the c&f. Please don't take offense to this, but you might be acting like too much of a jerk to girls. Women only tolerate that behavior from HOT guys. I'm sure you are a decent looking fella, but might not be considered by girls to be the true hot douchbag that could pull that off. So only females that find you hot (and are into jerky guys) will respond.

Drop the c&f and other forms of jerk game. Be normal, interesting and use kino. I never got a ONS by being a jerk. I'm not saying jerk game doesn't work. I'm saying women only respond to it from certain guys.

Thanks for the input, Mike32ct. I don’t do the C&F routine at all…I supposed I could work on it a little and give it a shot. As of now, my approach when talking to a girl is to be relaxed, ask questions about her, throw a joke or two in, and then when I gauge her reaction to me it’s usually non receptive…so then I go ahead and try to get a phone number anyway because I have nothing to lose and then I get rejected.

This is good advice. I used to do this and it works against you. Just be an interesting guy and use KINO. I think you are over analayzing "the game" too. What I mean is when you are hitting on chicks you prob overthink your approach, your interaction, and she can totally feel the vibe of you being akward and trying too hard. If there is one thing women can do, its the ability to FEEL your vibe. Their intuition is incredible. So howwever youre feeling they are feeling the same way. You need to relax and stop thinking so much. The chicks your are banging are just chicks who dig your looks. But if youre going to catch the big fish you need personality, smoothness, confident aura plus your looks. Its all in your head. You need to work out your head games first.

Thank you, Meast1525. I have to read up on KINO because I don’t understand it yet. I always read that you should not touch a girl first; you should wait for her to touch you. Even then you’d want to withhold a bit because it’ll drive her crazy and wanting you more and then she’ll touch you even more…at that point touching and “KINO” should just come naturally. Yes I don’t typically feel any type of good vibe when talking with women. I used to feel a very awkward vibe but in the last year or so I have felt more excitement but the girl still gets scared off. This is a difficult one because it’s tied into confidence. Confidence is very hard to get and to maintain…especially when you finally find the mindset that you’re the **** and you still get rejected and go home alone and have to listen to your roommate’s girlfriend moan during sex with another guy who is obviously doing something right.
I’m beginning to suspect that my success with women might be hampered until I work out the headgames with a therapist. I had a bad childhood and even today I struggle with feelings of sadness and depression when I think of my family…it’s hard to let it all go and go off into the world and suddenly turn into a ****y and fun loving guy when I sometimes get strong feelings of anger and hatred towards my parents. However, I also suspect that this issue is something that I can overcome myself…it is part of the hand that I have been dealt and something in my path which I can conquer and will be stronger for doing so.

Bro first of all your attitude has to change ASAP. Your acting like girls owe you something because you've followed all the rules and play by the book. Girls don't care about that, girls care about how you make them FEEL at that moment in time.

Biggest thing is that you are valuing hot girls way too much. If can attract the ugly ones no problem, it means you have the ability. Don't value hot ones so much, knock them down, bruise their ego, and they will come. A hot girls ego is as tall as a building but as thin as glass, one crack in the right place and you're in.

And dude, why don't you tell your roommate gf to shut it down while you are sleeping? He will tell her to scream louder next time they have sex because he knows it annoys you and you won't do anything about it.

Thank you, Trump. One thing you mention here is what I think is totally helpful to remember when talking to girls…that is to deal with them on an emotional level…laughing, excitement, mystery…and not on a logical one…being straightforward and serious. I definitely do my best to avoid valuing hot girls too much. I think about how they have to **** like everyone else and they are flawed like everyone else…but I do get turned on by their bodies and so I kind of value and don’t value them at the same time…not sure what to do about this one.
Why would I tell the roommate to shut it down if it’ll only make him tell his girlfriend to scream louder?

 

[Droz88]

It seems like the only common recurring theme in my personal thoughts about myself is that I don't have the type of confidence needed for this.

I know I can do anything I put my mind do but that kind of confidence only helps with things like getting into a certain school/getting into a certain profession/learning a new skill for a hobby. However, this type of confidence doesn't seem to apply so well when it comes to women. Dealing with women and people I think requires a different confidence that is about social ability or something like that...it's hard to put my finger on it.

 

[Desdinova]

Cold approaches are probably the most difficult ones to be successful at. I've been successful occasionally, but most of the women I've dated either came from mutual friends or from places that the both of us frequent. Using your resources will make you much more successful.

Another thing to keep in mind is that most of the attractive women are taken, so you're going to be trying to steal her away from a pre-existing bf. You need to offer her the things that her bf isn't giving her. Most of the time, the things she needs are the same: excitement, emotional fluctuation, and a man with confidence. Go in with this knowledge and offer to fulfill the things he isn't giving her, and your chances of stealing her away will greatly increase.

I have to read up on KINO because I don’t understand it yet. I always read that you should not touch a girl first; you should wait for her to touch you.

Kino alone will greatly help you with the women you meet. When it comes to *any* woman I'm interested in, I ALWAYS look for a reason to touch her. If you're chatting with her at a bar, tell her "I'll be right back" and touch her on the shoulder or arm. Damn near every woman I've initiated kino with turns into a date. With kino, you break the sexual barrier, you display confidence, and you cause her emotional fluctuation. Kino is the way to jumpstart a woman's attraction toward you.

Put Kino into your approaches and you'll have much more success.

 

[Mike32ct]

Not to sound negative or defeatist, but there is reason why a lot guys do pretty well at school, work, and other areas of their lives, but struggle with women.

It has to do with what we control vs. what we don't control.

At school, study hard, get your assignments done well, etc., and you can get the good grades. This is mostly under your control.

At work, be on time, get your work done, make your boss look good, etc., and you will do fine. This is largely under your control.

With women, there are no guarantees that she will be receptive to your approach no matter what you do. By all means step up and start talking to her, but the rest is out of your hands.

That is probably the most frustrating part. Since they chose, it's out of our control.

All you can really do is believe in yourself. She might or might not agree with you. I still struggle with this myself.

 

[Droz88]

Cold approaches are probably the most difficult ones to be successful at. I've been successful occasionally, but most of the women I've dated either came from mutual friends or from places that the both of us frequent. Using your resources will make you much more successful.

Another thing to keep in mind is that most of the attractive women are taken, so you're going to be trying to steal her away from a pre-existing bf. You need to offer her the things that her bf isn't giving her. Most of the time, the things she needs are the same: excitement, emotional fluctuation, and a man with confidence. Go in with this knowledge and offer to fulfill the things he isn't giving her, and your chances of stealing her away will greatly increase.



Kino alone will greatly help you with the women you meet. When it comes to *any* woman I'm interested in, I ALWAYS look for a reason to touch her. If you're chatting with her at a bar, tell her "I'll be right back" and touch her on the shoulder or arm. Damn near every woman I've initiated kino with turns into a date. With kino, you break the sexual barrier, you display confidence, and you cause her emotional fluctuation. Kino is the way to jumpstart a woman's attraction toward you.

Put Kino into your approaches and you'll have much more success.

So the first bolded part is such a good point...without friends or somewhat of a social circle you are at a big disadvantage. The hot GF I had when I was 19 I met at work...since then it's been mostly cold approaches and it is difficult. Expanding your social circle is hard as hell too. Besides some companionship, there is almost nothing I want or need from other men. I find them to be brash and undesirable as people to know. I've been a loner for quite some time now and it's hard to build a social circle when you don't already have one. I literally have no friends that I see on a regular basis and share activities or interests with. Maybe this is my problem all along?

Here is a great article about this topic. Do me a favor and read it at your earliest convenience and tell me what you think:
http://www.menshealth.com/sex-women/best-places-meet-women

The second part I bolded is hard to swallow. How do you know this?

 

[Droz88]

Not to sound negative or defeatist, but there is reason why a lot guys do pretty well at school, work, and other areas of their lives, but struggle with women.

It has to do with what we control vs. what we don't control.

At school, study hard, get your assignments done well, etc., and you can get the good grades. This is mostly under your control.

At work, be on time, get your work done, make your boss look good, etc., and you will do fine. This is largely under your control.

With women, there are no guarantees that she will be receptive to your approach no matter what you do. By all means step up and start talking to her, but the rest is out of your hands.

That is probably the most frustrating part. Since they chose, it's out of our control.

All you can really do is believe in yourself. She might or might not agree with you. I still struggle with this myself.

Mike that is an excellent observation and totally true. Achieving the goal of becoming the type of man who has frequent lays by attractive women is one particular goal where the steps are not linear and we just cannot control what another human being will think or do...really this is like the ultimate challenge.

 

[Droz88]

Cold approaches are probably the most difficult ones to be successful at. I've been successful occasionally, but most of the women I've dated either came from mutual friends or from places that the both of us frequent. Using your resources will make you much more successful.

Another thing to keep in mind is that most of the attractive women are taken, so you're going to be trying to steal her away from a pre-existing bf. You need to offer her the things that her bf isn't giving her. Most of the time, the things she needs are the same: excitement, emotional fluctuation, and a man with confidence. Go in with this knowledge and offer to fulfill the things he isn't giving her, and your chances of stealing her away will greatly increase.



Kino alone will greatly help you with the women you meet. When it comes to *any* woman I'm interested in, I ALWAYS look for a reason to touch her. If you're chatting with her at a bar, tell her "I'll be right back" and touch her on the shoulder or arm. Damn near every woman I've initiated kino with turns into a date. With kino, you break the sexual barrier, you display confidence, and you cause her emotional fluctuation. Kino is the way to jumpstart a woman's attraction toward you.

Put Kino into your approaches and you'll have much more success.

So the first bolded part is such a good point...without friends or somewhat of a social circle you are at a big disadvantage. The hot GF I had when I was 19 I met at work...since then it's been mostly cold approaches and it is difficult. Expanding your social circle is hard as hell too. Besides some companionship, there is almost nothing I want or need from other men. I find them to be brash and undesirable as people to know. I've been a loner for quite some time now and it's hard to build a social circle when you don't already have one. I truthfully have no friends that I see on a regular basis and share activities or interests with. Maybe this is my problem all along? Yesterday evening I was on my computer all night and went downstairs to get something from my car...on the way there I passed by the apartment below me and saw 2 guys and 2 girls around my age who were hanging out inside, talking, drinking beer. I thought, "one of those guys probably knows one of those girls and he introduced his buddy to that girl and her friend tonight...and now they are at a house talking and gettting to know each other...these guys are in such an easy environment and position to talk to those girls and build a sexual rapport..the girls aren't at some bar where they can just walk away because everyone is a stranger and they are all at a public place". You see now that's the power of having a social circle and having friends.

Here is a great article about this topic. Do me a favor and read it at your earliest convenience and tell me what you think:
http://www.menshealth.com/sex-women/best-places-meet-women

The second part I bolded is hard to swallow. How do you know this?

 

[Desdinova]

The second part I bolded is hard to swallow. How do you know this?

Do you mean the whole 'hot women have bfs' part?

How do I know? Because I've stolen them away. They've told me that I was much more fun / interesting / exciting / confident / happy / masculine than the guy they were with, so they dumped him.

Women are branch swingers. They are terrified of being alone. They won't leave a guy until they've got a secure hold on another one.

 

[Droz88]

Do you mean the whole 'hot women have bfs' part?

How do I know? Because I've stolen them away. They've told me that I was much more fun / interesting / exciting / confident / happy / masculine than the guy they were with, so they dumped him.

Women are branch swingers. They are terrified of being alone. They won't leave a guy until they've got a secure hold on another one.

Oops i forgot to bold it. I meant the part where you said that "most attractive women are taken". That's a hard pill to swallow because it helps to imagine them like me spending most of their time alone. If I imagine them as actively going from guy to guy then it's a total turn off to know she's getting railed all the time and it's intimidating at the same time. I know, we cannot allow ourselves to be intimidated but thinking that most attractive women are taken does that to me. I have had the same thing happen to me too where a woman i'm seeing will tell me how much better I am than her previous guy.

 

[jhl]

Thank you for taking the time to read this. Hopefully, if you ever find yourself in a similar rut then this thread might be of value to you.

24 years old here. The problem is that I'm utterly discouraged. I've been into this online PUA training thing for about 4-5 years now. I think i've had just about the worst results you can have for all that time reading this material and practicing talking to women. The only girl I've ever been with that I was sexually very attractive to was a 14 month relationship that started when I was 19 and ended with her dumping me. The ONLY reason I got her in the first place was because I read online that jerks get women and I was an aggressive jerk to her. We had sex all the time and it was ****ing great! Eventually that ran its course and I really haven't had a girl that i've been proud of since then. There have been about 6-7 more women that I slept with since her, and 4 of them I met through online sex sites...and none of them I considered attractive at all. The other 2 I picked up in bars. 1 had a nice body but she was too short to really get me excited (5'2"), and another one looked pretty fine in the clothing but once she took them off she had A LOT of extra loose skin on her that almost made me puke while having sex (she went from weighing over 250lbs to 150lbs in about 1 year).

There were quite a few other women who I have gone on dates with and nothing happened between us...usually because I wasn't really attracted to them in the first place and so our dates weren't that exciting. I see all these good looking ones walking around and I'm thinking "Are a lot of these girls going home alone as much as me or do they have a steady stream of men that they frequently have good sex with? And why the **** aren't I one of them for just ONE of this girls?"

So I read and read and read through all these lists of do's and dont's, articles on what women are attracted to, signs that she is interested, etc. And wow it's just all **** for me. Every girl that I find attractive rejects me in some way, while the girls I don't find attractive I could easily bed...which I have done already and can't bring myself to do anymore because bad and passionless sex is just painful to experience.

-I never buy women drinks
-I don't buy into their head games and don't tolerate their BS
-I'm 6'1" tall, athletic body, relatively average/good looking, smart
-I'm aware of my capabilities and am confident that I can do anything I put my mind to...except women apparently
-I'm independent, have my own car, support myself while going through school, etc.
-Good hygeine
-The list goes on with all this crap that I do that these articles tell me are what I should be doing in order to attract women. Basically I try to display as many alpha male traits as I can but the only women who come after me are the ones I'm not really attracted to.

God damn what the **** is left to do except to lose faith in all this DJ stuff? Either it doesn't work or there is something fundamentally wrong with my attitude or personality that turns good looking women away. I'll admit I really don't have friends although I do talk to some people (work, school, old roommates). I don't know what to do anymore; it's just so ****ing discouraging to not be getting the results I want....meanwhile I just moved into a new apartment a few weeks ago and one of my new roommates brings his hot girlfriend over and I have to listen to them having sex in the next room all night...believe me I've never worse than lying there, sexually frustrated, feeling defeated, and then having no choice but to listen to and visualize that hot girl screwing another guy just a few feet on the other side of my wall....truly a low point. I'm currently doing an internship right now while in school and my performance is going down because I'm just ****ing hopeless...if I can't get a good sexual release with a hot girls at least ONCE in 5 ****ing years after following all these tips and guides then I lose motivation to do anything.

At this point I'm willing to post pictures of myself for critcism or be as brutally honest with any questions you guys think would help to know the answer to.

Once again, that you for reading.

I'll be brutally honest. You've been working at it for 4-5 years and aren't progressing. You should be well past the point where you are making progress by now.

The underlying problem to all of this is that you don't see what you're doing wrong.

What you need to do is to find an experienced wingman who can point out your flaws. You need someone on the side who can pick out the details you can't see, be brutally honest, and lay them out to you.

FIND that person. Just like a person trainer who helps those who haven't been able to build muscle after years of exercising, you need to find someone who is successful and experienced at pickup who can help you out.

All the pointers you'll get on this forum will be on the basic stuff (work out, get hobbies, become more confident yada yada). After reading tons of stuff out there I'm sure you know about all this stuff. I'm guessing this is a smaller thing that none us will be able to pick up from what you write in a post.

 

[Voice]

Do you mean the whole 'hot women have bfs' part?

How do I know? Because I've stolen them away. They've told me that I was much more fun / interesting / exciting / confident / happy / masculine than the guy they were with, so they dumped him.

Women are branch swingers. They are terrified of being alone. They won't leave a guy until they've got a secure hold on another one.

This.

I can tell you your problem right off the bat. You are focusing on the wrong thing. You are forgetting that this whole process is supposed to be FUN. DON'T ever take a girl seriously. You're single so just go out there and have fun, talk to girls to see if they are good enough for YOU. Look for a girl who YOU like, don't settle for a girl who likes you. Don't worry so much about your game. Some little tips here and there are ok. But don't over think things.

One thing I've read from Pook that I would never forget is there are only 3 things needed to be a DJ.

1. YOU are the prize
2. Fun should be the focus
3. Be sexual

That's it!

Most of your misery is self-inflicted. Life is full of ups and downs, all you need to do is ride the waves.

 

[EastWind]

While the above is all good input, I should point out that at this point your success of lack thereof might not have much or anything at all to do with your game. It might be a matter of target audience. Mike32ct pointed out something similar.

It might not even be that there is "one last thing" wrong with your game that you are not being honest about - although I respect the comment above me and it might be right, I'm simply presenting another view. Except if you define that "one last thing" as what I'm about to say.

Two thoughts:

• Even if your game isn't bad, how much you reap depends on how much you sow. If your social circle isn't big - mine isn't - or you don't go out too much - I don't - you won't pull as much as other guys who do.
• The target audience thing from above; as per your age, your 'target audience' probably is the 18-25 age range. In this range, what Mike32ct said applies fully; in my experience, if you're not the loudest most obnoxious guy in the room, you just won't succeed. For the girls aged 18-25, it's not about what your qualities truly are (even counting 'being alpha'), it's about how well you pretend to have these qualities and how exciting you are.

I really feel for you because it's similar for me, although I've pulled a bit more. My social circle isn't big and I don't need it to be, I have few but good friends. I don't go clubbing because I hate it, I meet people through ballroom dancing, by chance or through my peers. But, still, it's not a big group to pick from.

What you will eventually realize, especially if you're smarter, is that this is no big loss, as most girls are just a bother to talk to. Of course, this is not what you're after; you want to get your knob wet. But eventually you will appreciate that having your peace and quiet is a thousand times better than having to listen to whatever is going through some pretty girl's empty head just to get it around your penis.

Especially when the few girls that are NOT a pain in the bottom to talk to make up for it.

 

[TillTheEndOfTime]

Being a DJ and PUA are NOT the same thing.

And trying to display alpha traits means that you are NOT alpha.

 

[CostaDeSol]

Cold approaches are probably the most difficult ones to be successful at. I've been successful occasionally, but most of the women I've dated either came from mutual friends or from places that the both of us frequent. Using your resources will make you much more successful

THIS.

Every time i enter a new social circle there is almost one girl in the group that i'm able to bang. MY downfall has been sealing the deal. But there's usually at least one single girl that is open to my approaches.

What you might need is a change in scenery. maybe you can't move, but have you tried increasing your social circle? You might want to join clubs, organizations, or sit in on a few classes (just for fun, not for credit) and chat up other students.

And if you make new guy friends, who knows, maybe they won't **** block you and introduce you to their friends who are girls.

Thats actually how i've been meeting most of the girls that I ask out. A guy friend invites me to his party and I hit on the girls there. I've also had a few of my older coworkers offer to hook me up with the girls they know.

 

[Desdinova]

I truthfully have no friends that I see on a regular basis and share activities or interests with.

I don't have any regular friends either, but I DO have my regular hangouts where I see the same people nearly every time. You need to figure out ways to create these social connections. Figure out something you're interested in and see if you can find a way to make connections with that interest. Meetup.com might be a good place to start.