Constructive Discussions

[Fruitbat]

This is one highly negative place

It was one argument in about 3 months, which was full of ********.

How the f has it descended to this!

Cheer up people. People have gripes and if you knew the wider context, we’re both happy.

“Ooh you’re now justifying your own shortcomings. It’s all going to fall to shyt and you’ll have yourself to blame”

“One day you’ll wake up to the truth, that any minor relationship gripe means instant divorce and admonishment”

“You had one argument in 3 months - you have absolutely no frame and you’re going to end up lonely and divorced, probably with some wasting disease, while players like us would have regulated that b1tch and they’d come running with sandwiches and beer saying “you’re so wonderful, let me worship at your crotch””

 

[AJ84]

Married for 11 years here.


No idea about your witchiness, but it is certainly funny that you are coming to this poor guy's aid. A woman is the only person agreeing with him. Oh, I certainly know how this goes, I used to be this guy.

Fruitbat, do what you're going to do. We'll be here when you need us.

Glad to have brought some humour your way .

But I wasn’t referring to you. I agree with what you posted about listening but letting her figure it out. I think in general this is a good way for anyone, man or woman to gain the skills to be resilient and deal with the ups and downs of their own lives, rather then learn to depend on others to sort it out for them.

She’s much younger than him and I can’t speak for him but maybe he feels as someone with more life experience he can walk her through this, and he sees it’s not working.

Hopefully he can gleam something from the advice here.

 

[Fruitbat]

The book you mention has some merit, but it was written by an extraordinarily effeminate man. I found myself having to take some of what he said with a grain of salt.

The modern philosophy is that we men are “supposed to” suppress common sense and rationality by constantly biting our tongues while she prattles on about her issues. I reject that.

I’m fortunate in that my woman doesn’t do that at all. And lo and behold, when she talks, I listen!

“Normal and balanced” is not what women are today. They are by and large not sane. They are unable to think clearly and are positively addicted to emotion. This is why they need male guidance.

There’s nothing wrong with just listening when you see that she is figuring out a solution on her own. What I won’t allow is for a woman to use me a a barf bag, just spilling her guts with an implied threat that I will be in her doghouse if I offer some help.

That is abuse at the man’s expense. This is abnormal and an indication of corrupt thinking.

Does anyone think women were this way 60 or 70 years ago? Or in the old West when every day was a challenge to survive? No, they didn’t dump on their men with all this emotion. They were too busy living and surviving and raising a family.

The problem is too much television and other media, and too much free time to sit on their asses soaking all that poison in.

I repeat that women need male guidance in order to function normally. The fact is, though, that there are very few male guides left.

Most men are sitting around trying to figure out how to avoid offending women. Our grandfathers’ generation on back through history could never have even dreamed that things would become like this.

There’s nothing wrong with listening to a woman talk about what’s bothering her unless she gets stuck on it and expects you to just listen quietly over and over. That’s when the foot comes down. Dump on your friends, not on me.

Right, thank you for a decent contribution.

The one thing that has been misinterpreted, is that I actually sat her down after a few minor whinges on where she was going in life and said “practically, how are we going to solve that. What do you want to happen?”
Very much as my boss does with me, and my career coach.

This then led to her wandering round in circles and not fully engaging. I think I made that abundantly clear.

If doing that, and just avoiding the topic is better, fair enough, but I see it as my duty and role as a man to try to help her because o deeply feel that most women are NOT CUT OUT to logically solve their issues and need this from a partner. Indeed, I feel this is the primary role of a husband and father - to bring order into chaos.

 

[AJ84]

she’s not agreeing with me, she’s being sarcastic...I guess being married 11 years has put you out of the game. If you actually believed she was being legit, then that shows how out of shape you are. All good though, enjoy your married life, no sarcasm.

Being married for 11 years means he may know a thing or two about relationships and a woman has chosen him as her life partner, women don’t choose just anyone for that believe it or not.
Don’t be butt hurt over it.

 

[speed dawg]

she’s not agreeing with me, she’s being sarcastic...I guess being married 11 years has put you out of the game. If you actually believed she was being legit, then that shows how out of shape you are. All good though, enjoy your married life, no sarcasm.

I was saying she is agreeing with Fruitbat, i.e. a woman telling him what he wants to hear. Wasn't talking about you.

 

[Fruitbat]

Glad to have brought some humour your way .

But I wasn’t referring to you. I agree with what you posted about listening but letting her figure it out. I think in general this is a good way for anyone, man or woman to gain the skills to be resilient and deal with the ups and downs of their own lives, rather then learn to depend on others to sort it out for them.

She’s much younger than him and I can’t speak for him but maybe he feels as someone with more life experience he can walk her through this, and he sees it’s not working.

Hopefully he can gleam something from the advice here.

That advice was made by about 5 people and I gratefully took it.

Your last but one paragraph was exactly what I mean.

What I took issue with was basically acting an arrogant prat and the source of all wisdom, and making pretty far reaching assumptions about my character to get a few cheap digs, to which my attitude is always FRO

 

[kingvavy]

I was saying she is agreeing with Fruitbat, i.e. a woman telling him what he wants to hear. Wasn't talking about you.

Understood

 

[Fruitbat]

Being married for 11 years means he may know a thing or two about relationships and a woman has chosen him as her life partner, women don’t choose just anyone for that believe it or not.
Don’t be butt hurt over it.

I’ve been married for 11 too, but my ex wife developed schizophrenia and I had to manage that, she had no family so it took me a few years to not allow her to be a statistic or homeless, which meant it took a while to remarry.

 

[kingvavy]

Being married for 11 years means he may know a thing or two about relationships and a woman has chosen him as her life partner, women don’t choose just anyone for that believe it or not.
Don’t be butt hurt over it.

Butt hurt over what? Lady, I was married for ten years, have two kids, and have been in an LTR for over 4 years now. I get laid on demand and my woman happily takes care of my kids when I’m at work. She has a rock solid body, is a decent cook, and most importantly—takes care of herself, respects me, and respects the rules of the relationship. I attribute 80% of the success of my current relationship to having survived being married to an NPD fema-hag who tried (unsuccessfully) to destroy me and my relationship with my kids. The other 20% is due to advice I learnt on this forum.

I was very much like Fruitbat when I first joined. The older members of the forum told me what would happen, and gave me advice. I rejected the advice and almost EVERYTHING THEY SAID took place. Life’s a ***** but it’s also a great teacher if you can survive it.

 

[kingvavy]

it took me a few years to not allow her to be a statistic or homeless,

Ok...you’re co-dependent, rescue complex, white Knight, etc. Many guys are. You’re going to keep making the same mistake over and over again until you can step out of your mind and take a critical look at your long term pattern with women.

Good luck. The right therapist can help, no sarcasm.

 

[AJ84]

Butt hurt over what? Lady, I was married for ten years, have two kids, and have been in an LTR for over 4 years now. I get laid on demand and my woman happily takes care of my kids when I’m at work. She has a rock solid body, is a decent cook, and most importantly—takes care of herself, respects me, and respects the rules of the relationship. I attribute 80% of the success of my current relationship to having survived being married to an NPD fema-hag who tried (unsuccessfully) to destroy me and my relationship with my kids. The other 20% is due to advice I learnt on this forum.

I was very much like Fruitbat when I first joined. The older members of the forum told me what would happen, and gave me advice. I rejected the advice and almost EVERYTHING THEY SAID took place. Life’s a ***** but it’s also a great teacher if you can survive it.

Yikes, this explains things.

OP seems to have had some bad history with an ex too. Many people do of course. What doesn’t kill us makes us stronger.
Not sure how belittling him when he shared some info on his past relationship helps. Maybe that approach worked for you but may not for other people.

He has said he is taking some of the advice shared here. Hopefully it all works out.

 

[kingvavy]

Yikes, this explains things.

OP seems to have had some bad history with an ex too. Many people do of course. What doesn’t kill us makes us stronger.
Not sure how belittling him when he shared some info on his past relationship helps. Maybe that approach worked for you but may not for other people.

He has said he is taking some of the advice shared here. Hopefully it all works out.

Listen Canuck, the only one doing any belittling here is you, with your passive aggressive “yikes” that completely belittles my experiences.

OP asked a question, and he was given a direct answer. You have some maple syrup stuck between your tongue and your cheek. Your fake niceness doesn’t fool me. On ignore list.

 

[Spaz]

Tell her straight up that you are not interested in hearing her whine ever again. Period. Then don’t.

She is clearly more interested in whining than finding a solution. Quit engaging her whining. If she presents you with a goal she wants help to achieve, than she earns a meaningful conversation and your advice.
Clarify the purpose of her talking with you, at that time. Ask her, Is she actually looking for help from you or is she wanting you to just listen? Then decide if you want to.
She acts childish and you allow it. Better stop that pattern now.

She also wants YOU to bring her the golden eggs. She is not interested in working for them.
She’s not interested in your solutions. Can’t you tell yet??? Actions over words!
If she had stayed single, and you had not made her your gf and now wife, as quickly as you did, she would have been out in your city doing a whole lot more for herself, by now. She may have when she was single already. Her survival would have demanded it. You’ve allowed her, her excuses, and her playing dependent, to the degree she has. You’ve made it ok. I suspect you like her dependence and portrayed helplessness, on some level, otherwise you would have expected and demanded more from her, by now.
You are incorrectly assuming you have frame. You clearly don’t. She is not listening to you. She is not being respectful of you, your time, or the advice you give her. Get honest with yourself.

You are also more interested in pleasing her than she is in pleasing you.

You want her to focus on goals. Clearly she had no interest in actually focusing on goals, or she would be. She’s not, not because of her poor English but because she does not really want to. You’ve allowed what is and already made it acceptable.

Before you even married her, I believe you posted multiple times about how unmotivated she was back then and how much it frustrated you and you did not understand it. I think you posted about her not even keeping up with the basics of keeping a clean house and how it frustrated you. I think you may have even said you felt she was lazy. You not only stayed with her you went ahead and married her.

If you married her expecting her to change into someone else, I think you are in for a very rude awakening. People are who they are.

She is not interested in being different right now, otherwise she already would be or she at least would be actively be working on it. If she really wanted help to set new goals for herself, or as a couple, SHE would already be taking action AND having constructive conversations, to further that. She doesn't. She just chooses to whine.

You use her lack of knowing the language well, after 2 years there, as the reason she needs to be so dependent on you. As I recall she lived in your area without you, just fine, before you two met. Why is it an acceptable excuse now?

If I recall correctly, you two were having unprotected sex, with the intent of her getting pregnant and having your first child, at any time now. If you still are, I HIGHLY recommend you stop that and use contraception. I think you are going to realize that there is a bigger divide between your fantasy and the reality, in your relationship than you were anticipating. Reality of who she is and what life will be like together can be a rough ride. Not all make it.

Facing that without a child is one thing. Facing the possibility someday, of splitting up and having your child suddenly moved, away to her home country, and then potentially being forced to move there too, in order to be part of your child’s life, is way beyond worth the risk, IMHO, at least at the moment, as things are playing out as they are. While you may think divorce will never happen to you, and I hope it doesn’t, it happens to people everyday, who also thought it would never be them. Make wise choices. Each one counts. They add up over time. Bringing a child into the world does NOT make your relationship with your wife better or closer. It amplifies everything that already isn’t working. Don’t think you are immune.

People aren’t specifically wanting you to fail. People caution you from their experience. Be wise to consider it. Be honest with yourself about the issues at hand and address them straight up rather then letting them continue to fester in your relationship.

TL;DR I suspect she is not personally interested in making changes herself, as much as she just wants you to give her more of an exciting life.

Well well well...ain't this grand.

The only women in this forum that has NOT consistently spewed female imperative drivel.

And yes u r correct in ur assessment of fruit man here and where it's headed.

With heightened feminity u r also blessed with heightened empathy but it's also a cursed as you're easily hurt - a conundrum of sorts.

 

[Spaz]

There’s nothing wrong with listening to a woman talk about what’s bothering her unless she gets stuck on it and expects you to just listen quietly over and over. That’s when the foot comes down. Dump on your friends, not on me.

When it's repetitive (on the same topic) then this is the masculine response and the proper leadership expected from a man towards his women.

 

[Spaz]

You were warned. Many of them aren’t even that coy anymore. i.e. they actively advertise as being affiliated with Wiccah. Google ‘coven book club’ Feminism has never had the interests of your family unit at heart. Feminism has always been about the destruction of the family unit.

I’ll still be here when you’re wife leaves you and you’re living at your Mom’s, lying on her couch, crying yourself to sleep at night because you can’t see your kids anymore, and you had to take a night gig working as a walmart greeter to make your support payments. I’ll also still be here when you’re posting about how wrong you were, and how you’ve ‘now’ finally red pilled.

I may NOT be here when a Canadian team finally wins the Stanley cup. What is it, 25 years now? lol

Dude, stop all this talk about witches.

If you continue then only the looneys will be ur audience.

Let's stick to workable facts and not the supernatural.

 

[LiveYourDream]

What to do: Be present with her, hold the imaginary garbage can, let her talk. Even ask her, "What else?" She will talk and talk fill it till she is suddenly done. There is nothing left, at the moment. She will suddenly feel lighter and happier and better because she got it all out. She'll tell you so. She will be really appreciative. Simply put down the garbage can and move on. Makes no sense I know. That's a woman. Consider it a win that you could make her happy, even if how, makes no sense to you. In the end she connects suddenly feeling happier feeling, TO YOU.

There’s nothing wrong with listening to a woman talk about what’s bothering her unless she gets stuck on it and expects you to just listen quietly over and over. That’s when the foot comes down. Dump on your friends, not on me.

Let me be clear, as I see it, this is something a man may do for his woman a few times a year, maybe less. This is not to be done, by a man, on a regular basis, in any way. A woman needs to manage her own emotions. She'll process herself or when needed phone a mother, sister, friend, co-worker and get it all out of her system, before she sees her man again. Sometimes due to logistics of where she is when something really upsetting occurs, it may be that a man and his woman are together, when she gets that profoundly upsetting text or call. The instruction was offered, as a tool a man can use on these rare occasions if chosen. In doing so, a man can assist his woman in re-cenetering herself, in a profound way for her, and without compromising his masculinity in the process. This was the intent, of what I shared previously.

 

[Bible_Belt]

A lot of what LYD is saying is in the book "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus." You are supposed to listen to her problems without trying to fix them, at least if you want a happier relationship.

 

[Fruitbat]

Ok...you’re co-dependent, rescue complex, white Knight, etc. Many guys are. You’re going to keep making the same mistake over and over again until you can step out of your mind and take a critical look at your long term pattern with women.

Good luck. The right therapist can help, no sarcasm.

Letting someone you’ve loved waltz into ruin and trying to assist that person is not a saviour complex, it’s called being a decent human being.

If you’re thinking like that, it’s because you’re self centred and didn’t properly develop in early childhood and see the world in terms of its value to you.

I presume if your wife or girlfriend developed cancer you’d be off at the first diagnoses?

Take a look at yourself. Using someone’s personal tragedy to get a cheap dig. There isn’t much difference, the mind absolutely boggles that you think trying to support a wife of 8 years who developed a serious, life changing illness is co dependency. Utter cretin. Compete scum of the earth, you get your own therapist.

Go **** yourself you piece of ****

 

[kingvavy]

Utter cretin. Compete scum of the earth, you get your own therapist.

Go **** yourself you piece of ****

You’re the one who made the decision to seek advice on a public forum, which for the record was not about your schizophrenic ex, but about your current girlfriend that you want to ‘fix’. People have taken time out of their day to give you what they feel is honest advice. You don’t like the advice you’re being given, so you turn around and attack the messengers.

You do this because you’re thin skinned, and can’t handle being told advice that doesn’t square up with what you want to hear. In fact, all of your responses throughout this entire thread are defensive critiques of the red pill solutions being offered to you. The people challenging you, myself included, want to help you, not get ‘digs’ or ‘belittle’ you to use some of the millennial, feminized language that Aj84 a.k.a ‘Dudley do-right’ mentioned earlier.

If you choose to post painful, personal details about yourself on a public forum, you need to accept that what people say in response may not always be what you want to hear. If you can’t handle the responses (which you clearly can’t), don’t post painful, personal details about yourself. Look at some of my older posts, specifically the one where I seek advice on helping my LTR cope with depression. Many of the responses were ‘dump her now...’ I didn't challenge those responses. I engaged in thoughtful discussion, took the advice that seemed plausible, and ignored the responses that were knee jerk. I am going on 4 plus years with the same woman, and the advice I received on this forum is a big reason why my LTR is healthy.

I’ve noticed that this forum has become highly femanized since I first starting hanging around here. Lot’s of words like ‘belittle’ and ‘you hurt my feelings...’, guys telling other guys that responses are ‘hurtful’, etc.

another men’s group taken down from within...adios amigos. Have fun at your tea party, and watch out for the book clubs.

 

[Fruitbat]

You’re the one who made the decision to seek advice on a public forum, which for the record was not about your schizophrenic ex, but about your current girlfriend that you want to ‘fix’. People have taken time out of their day to give you what they feel is honest advice. You don’t like the advice you’re being given, so you turn around and attack the messengers.

You do this because you’re thin skinned, and can’t handle being told advice that doesn’t square up with what you want to hear. In fact, all of your responses throughout this entire thread are defensive critiques of the red pill solutions being offered to you. The people challenging you, myself included, want to help you, not get ‘digs’ or ‘belittle’ you to use some of the millennial, feminized language that Aj84 a.k.a ‘Dudley do-right’ mentioned earlier.

If you choose to post painful, personal details about yourself on a public forum, you need to accept that what people say in response may not always be what you want to hear. If you can’t handle the responses (which you clearly can’t), don’t post painful, personal details about yourself. Look at some of my older posts, specifically the one where I seek advice on helping my LTR cope with depression. Many of the responses were ‘dump her now...’ I didn't challenge those responses. I engaged in thoughtful discussion, took the advice that seemed plausible, and ignored the responses that were knee jerk. I am going on 4 plus years with the same woman, and the advice I received on this forum is a big reason why my LTR is healthy.

I’ve noticed that this forum has become highly femanized since I first starting hanging around here. Lot’s of words like ‘belittle’ and ‘you hurt my feelings...’, guys telling other guys that responses are ‘hurtful’, etc.

another men’s group taken down from within...adios amigos. Have fun at your tea party, and watch out for the book clubs.

Well, I’m about to feck my wife for the 2nd time today.

Good luck with all your PUA theories.