Confused and in need of advice

MovinOnUp

Don Juan
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Everyone,

I've been seeing a woman as of late -- we've gone out three times and have always had fun. I went for the kiss at the end of the second date, and although it seemed to take her by surprise, and she actually kind of made a joke afterwards like she was going to shake my hand and say goodbye, she had this big goofy grin on her face and then let me kiss her again. In fact, when it ended and I went to back away, she stepped forward and kissed me again. So I walked away thinking "great. She was a little hesitant, but maybe she was just nervous."

I tell you this because she really threw me for a loop last night. I invited her over to my place to have dinner and throw darts. I made some decent food and we ate and joked around -- you know, the usual flirty chit-chat, with me making fun of her when she missed the dart board, accusing her of cheating, and just otherwise teasing her. She laughed and gave it right back. She seemed to be having a good time and so was I. But I think I came across as a little nervous or tight because her body language was VERY closed off. She tended to stand with her arms crossed and kept more than an arm's-length of distance most of the time. She didn't object to me touching her here and there, but she didn't reciprocate. When we went for a brief walk outside, and it was obvious she was freezing, I put my arm around her, but she stayed closed off with her arms crossed. So I just sort of took my arm back.

Well, after that, we sat down to watch a movie. At one point, she leaned forward in her seat, so I kind of scratched her back a bit and when she was fine with that, I sort of moved my hand up to her neck. She made it pretty clear that she was uncomfortable with that, so I stopped and withdrew my hands altogether. About five minutes later, though, she turned in her seat and made a point of resting her hand on my shoulder. Long story short, I took it as a cue to go back to what I was doing and we spent the rest of the evening sort of huddled up with my arm around her. No big deal. It was nice.

So then I need to turn in. I had no reason to expect that she would want to stay or anything, given how much of a stretch it was to get her to respond to my touch, and as I expected, she said she was heading home. So I walked her to the door, expecting to at least get a kiss, and she said "bye" and turned and walked out.

I know this all sounds pretty bush-league, but I would appreciate your thoughts on the situation. I am inclined to just back-off and see if she makes any effort to contact me (she has always accepted my invitations, but doesn't seem inclined to make much contact on her own).

What would you do?
 

Snow Plowman

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STOP LOOKING FOR IOIs and IODs...your being reactive in sense that based on what you think her behavior is saying will determine what you'll do. It should be the other way around...

Man = Action
Woman = Reaction

Take action...you should've went for the kiss way back on the first meet or first date. She's in your house, and having fun...GO FOR IT!!!

So longs the chick is standing there talking to you, she wants to ****, regardless if she's giving IOIs or IODs...you missed the window of opportunity making you...CHODE!!!
 

MovinOnUp

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Alright Plowman, fair enough. I see your point.

But I just don't comprehend how one goes about "going for it" when a woman is acting so closed off. I initiated kino several times, DESPITE the fact that she was closed off, and she eventually responded --ever so slightly -- when I backed away. Short of just grabbing her, I'm not sure what else I could have done. I already admitted that her actions threw me off my game a bit, so I guess maybe I was coming across as fumbling and nervous.

As for not being able to kiss her, I was giving her a moment to gather her things and then had every intention of initiating a kiss when she turned back to face me. But she turned her back on me, opened the door, and walked away so fast that it sort of took me by surprise. Again, I suppose I could have just ran out and grabbed her again and made her come back, but I didn't. I was just sort of stunned because I didn't expect it.

In the grand scheme of things, I suppose it doesn't matter. But I want to learn something practical from this.
 
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1. Instead of asking a bunch of crack heads on the internet you should be having this convo with her.

2. She may have some intimacy issues or is pushing some kind of date contract on you such as no sex until 12 dates so that you don't think she is a slut. I have pimped girls out of those same contracts by just straight forward communication.
 
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You should have asked for a kiss instead of waiting for her to give you one. But you already know you were acting uncomfortable. You have to be relaxed around a chick or you won't go as far as you would like. You need to be in a relaxed state so you can use whatever tension is in the air to your advantage. It seems like you still have some chance with her, so just make sure you take it easy next time. Don't take it too seriously, and yes a little bit of talking with her to see how she is feeling is in order. Find out if she does indeed have some sort of rule as to when she does what. Be sly as you can though. Happy hunting.
 

MovinOnUp

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Thanks for the responses. I do want to talk to her about it. But I have been led to believe that asking a woman about or for anything is pretty much the kiss of death. It seems like every time I have ever asked a woman about some relationship issue, or in any way made it clear that I want more than I am getting, she bolts pretty soon after that. It happens the same way every time, so I can only assume that I am doing something wrong. I guess when it comes down to it, I KNOW I'm not capable (right now) of communicating on that sexual level with women.

The funny thing is, I like to think I have come a long way in terms of NOT being nervous or chump-ish; but the older I get, the LESS able I am to keep women around. So I think I may be deluding myself. I haven't had a real LTR in years. I usually get about one to two months and that's it. The last few women that have started out liking me make it about 2-3 dates.

So I definitely suffer from the scarcity mindset.

Anyway, I appreciate the advice.
 

Big B

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First thing I would do is shut down contact unless it is her contacting you. If she can't even pick up the phone to call or send you an email then her interst level really isn't that high. I know this is hard to do when you are interested in a woman. If you really want her then you have to make her want you. If she contacts you don't tell he things like you miss hanging out with her etc. You have to secretivly let her know that your life is great with or without her in it and that you have other options out there. Whether she is truly interested in you or not she still wants some kind of attention from you saying that you are interested in her. As soon as you withdraw that kind of attention that you are giving her she will probably wonder why it changed for you. Next thing you know, she wants you more than ever because now you are a challange to her. Women love to have anything they want and if they can't have it they will go to pretty extreme lengths to ensure they get it. This has been my experience with this in the past. In short, flip the script on her and if she reacts, great. If not then she lost the prize and its time to move on. That's what we do as DJ. Good luck man.
 

Rounder

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So she's gone out with you more than once? How many times total?

When you were walking and she was cold and you put your arm around her and her arms were folded - take her arm and put it around you as well. Be funny with it. Give her a piggy back ride to keep the wind off her. Whatever. Just shake up her world if you have to.

Touch is important - but find places for it to be natural. Make it you. Don't force it. Don't touch her EVERYTIME there's a chance.

Say to her "Do you want to kiss me?" - say it in a - do you want to kiss me or not? kind of way. If she says maybe or yes, get after it.

The language and tone of your post sounds like you are very unsure of your actions, thoughts and timing. I translate this in to being unsure of your actions/thoughts/timing on your date as well.

Lead her. Don't look for her to make decisions. YOU make them.
 

Snow Plowman

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MovinOnUp said:
Alright Plowman, fair enough. I see your point.

But I just don't comprehend how one goes about "going for it" when a woman is acting so closed off. I initiated kino several times, DESPITE the fact that she was closed off, and she eventually responded --ever so slightly -- when I backed away. Short of just grabbing her, I'm not sure what else I could have done. I already admitted that her actions threw me off my game a bit, so I guess maybe I was coming across as fumbling and nervous.

As for not being able to kiss her, I was giving her a moment to gather her things and then had every intention of initiating a kiss when she turned back to face me. But she turned her back on me, opened the door, and walked away so fast that it sort of took me by surprise. Again, I suppose I could have just ran out and grabbed her again and made her come back, but I didn't. I was just sort of stunned because I didn't expect it.

In the grand scheme of things, I suppose it doesn't matter. But I want to learn something practical from this.
It's a total mindfuvk...because so many things could've been the reason why she'd be acting like that and in terms of actual moving it forward, it's irrelevant.

YES I think it was because you were being reactive that it just fuked everything up, and also you can't be saving up the kiss unless she knows 100% that you could've gone for the kiss but you chose to wait to build up some tension...These chicks could read all the subtle sh!t that's going on...

Reason I said don't look at IOIs and IODs...so longs she's standing there it's ON!!! Is because I've had MANY chicks who have done stuff like this and I've madeout and pulled. There is a saying that when you draw state from within, chicks will pull away all interest to see if your holding your state...

YOU MUST BE TOTALLY UNREACTIVE

I've had chicks who showed me no traditional IOIs and I madeout with, I've had a MLTR that when we first met all she did was sit there and just observe me. I've approached chicks who weren't laughing, saying anything and just watching me LOVE when I escalate hard on them.

I've also seen chicks running up to me saying "I love you" and then one little distraction and she completely forgot about me...hahaha
 
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