condemnation, pimps, and happiness. click here!

[icepick]

"Taming of the Shrew" - Shakespeare

I rest my case.

Hey, you brought him up first!

 

[iqqi]

eyecandy (are you really ), when i am talking about the hypocrisy of pac, i really think that it is a lot deeper than women, son. it is society. it is MEN who make other men feel the need to "prove" themselves as men. that is why i think the subject of tupac deserves its own thread. do you wanna go ahead and start one? i'll meet you there!

 

[iqqi]

Re: Origins of hate

Originally posted by Bonhomme

Trying to convince such people to change is a fool's mission.

hey hommes.

trying to change i agree.

but showing another perspective is something i feel we should always be doing. as long as you are listening to the otherside.

this is one of my favorite quotes of all time:
"Never look down on someone unless you're helping them up"
~Rev. Jesse Jackson

 

[Eyecandie4ya]

Originally posted by iqqi
eyecandy (are you really ), when i am talking about the hypocrisy of pac, i really think that it is a lot deeper than women, son. it is society. that is why i think the subject of tupac deserves its own thread. do you wanna go ahead and start one? i'll meet you there!

Wouldn't you like to know!

Why quote something from someone when you can't relate to , daughter? You can ask bulldikers about females and they will tell you, they feel this sh*t we deal with. Well on this thread, we are talking about the female aspect of it since you brought up Pac's name.

it is MEN who make other men feel the need to "prove" themselves as men

Elaborate more on what you are saying here.

 

[Bonhomme]

Gotcha, iqqi

Yes, one can get enough into the game that they forget they're dealing with real live people.

(How fukcing un-player-like of me to say this )

 

[iqqi]

Originally posted by Eyecandie4ya
Wouldn't you like to know!

Why quote something from someone when you can't relate to , daughter? You can ask bulldikers about females and they will tell you, they feel this sh*t we deal with. Well on this thread, we are talking about the female aspect of it since you brought up Pac's name.

i can't relate because i'm female? fcuk it, you can't relate then, because YOU ain't pac! lets stop being silly here, i can relate to a lot of what another human being believes because i am also human. this is why music is so universal, period. and i am not even speaking on pac being a man. i am being specific and speaking on pac being an entertainer, a golden boy. so unless you are a famous rapper, then YOU can't relate, if that is how you want it. cuz that is what i'm talking about.

Originally posted by Eyecandie4ya



Elaborate more on what you are saying here.

start a new thread. pac and his hypocrisy as an entertainer/man, is a whole nother thing. are you following me yet?

 

[Bonhomme]

I've met and known A LOT of entertainers.

Some genuinely cool, some *******s, some wise, some fools.

Let's just say I don't ask for autographs, and leave it at that. They're just folks like the rest of us.

 

[Player_Supreme]

this right here is a whole debate of its own, having a lot to do with society, media, and image. i believe that when he wrote this song, and others like this one, this came from his soul. but he is not here to agree, so who am i to say what he meant?



Iggy, I'll bet your one of those girls who cried when he died. Tupac was a pimp with words baby. He read the art of war and Nitche while in prison.

This shows me that you can be pimped iggy. Your philosophizing about why he said this or that....you've given him immortal powers far above normal men and women...which didn't save him from those numerous rape charges over his carreer.

It behoves me to defame my fellow brotha. My purpose is to shed a moment of light on this hysteria over tupacs words. I know they reach you and speak to you. You probably bought his after death cds and played them for days on end in your home sitting there all alone feeling the black mans pain. Yes babygirl the paid. It's always about the pain. You have pain and we have pain so we have something in common. We are both missunderstood.

 

[Player_Supreme]

Oh iggy the taming of the shrew was a good play and movie (elizabeth taylor and richard burton).

And

"i can't relate because i'm female? fcuk it, you can't relate then, because YOU ain't pac! lets stop being silly here, i can relate to a lot of what another human being believes because i am also human. this is why music is so universal, period. and i am not even speaking on pac being a man. i am being specific and speaking on pac being an entertainer, a golden boy. so unless you are a famous rapper, then YOU can't relate, if that is how you want it. cuz that is what i'm talking about."

watch as I lift my right hand in the air my fist clenched and yell out:

"Solid" -undercover brother

 

[iqqi]

Originally posted by Player_Supreme
Your philosophizing about why he said this or that....[/B]

actually i said, and hell, i quote:

but he is not here to agree, so who am i to say what he meant?

and to answer the rest of your Q's, all are um...no. you don't have to even be a fan to hear what someone is saying.

i did cry when left eye died, (sigh). she reminded me of myself.

 

[Player_Supreme]

You didn't answer my question...but sorry babygirl gotta run.

 

[Eyecandie4ya]

Originally posted by iqqi
i can't relate because i'm female? fcuk it, you can't relate then, because YOU ain't pac! lets stop being silly here, i can relate to a lot of what another human being believes because i am also human. this is why music is so universal, period. and i am not even speaking on pac being a man. i am being specific and speaking on pac being an entertainer, a golden boy. so unless you are a famous rapper, then YOU can't relate, if that is how you want it. cuz that is what i'm talking about.

You can't relate because you never been "with a female" unless you do a little carpet munching sometimes.

Pac spoke from his "experiences" with women. A lot of cats can relate to what he is saying without being a "famous rapper". It doesn't take status for someone to understand what going on when it happens to regular cats everyday. This my dear is something you cannot understand unless you are diking.

 

[iqqi]

you are misunderstanding me. you are clinging on to pac. this isn't the point. the point is that the tactic being advised is a disguised form of hatred of women. there is nothing honest being said. unfortunate, weak women are targeted here, but just realize that all women are not weak and unfortunate. if you want a weak woman, then you are a weak man. why are you weak? why do you hate? and before you respond, read what has already been written here, don't just skim.

 

[icepick]

Originally posted by iqqi
if you want a weak woman, then you are a weak man.

This whole debate just gives me a migrane.

We are not debating black and white here but shades of grey.

Weak has many connotations. I don't want a woman that is strong and forceful, because both people can't lead in the dance.

When I was a weak-willed AFC, however, I DID want a woman that was strong. (To make up for my weakness.) I only ended up with more 'dominant' s1utty type girls. That was NOT satisfying to me.

We all have our different goals. Some guys like stronger women, but those are the weaker guys. (Not that there is anything WRONG with that, that is perfectly fine.) Just as some women are stronger, and like weaker men. (Again, there is nothing WRONG with this either!)

Example: I take it you are not a girly-girl type icky. You and me would probably not mix well if this is true. Just the way it is. I find I am more attracted to type of girls that do not like to think about things like this, and would rather have fun.

The man and woman have to stand back to back facing different issues of life. They cant stare at the same issue, because then life will kick them both in the behind.

It is a balance searching thing. Not a moral or self-stregth thing.

Yes, I agree that those people who GENUINELY hate women are screwed up. Why hate women? I would rather enjoy them. I wouldn't TRUST them, but then again I wouldn't trust many men either.

I don't agree with you on the 'deception' thing. Women can read minds, and if you hate women, then you will most likely be avoided by them.

The whole "sexual predator" thing is a big myth, I believe. Many "players" actually get ADDICTED to p*ssy. (It is really tough, think of each girl as a different flavor. You want to sample them ALL!)

Looking at it from the flip-side, at a woman who hates men, and uses them for money, etc. I find the fault is actually with the MEN there. They make themselves to be used.

Sure, I could say that the woman is suffering because she hates men so, but then she wouldn't be happy would she?

Here we are back to happiness again, and my point being that if they (players, PS) are happy, then there is no problem with that.

 

[Player_Supreme]

good points icepick. I like the analogy of two people can't lead in a dance...wink wink...there's a change a commin.

 

[icepick]

Originally posted by Player_Supreme
good points icepick. I like the analogy of two people can't lead in a dance...wink wink...there's a change a commin.

Yeah, I saw that in the other thread.

See, that's why this forum can sometimes be anyoying. You know what I am talking about. Remember a long long time ago when you were shy or whatever and thought that sex was "taking advantage" of women?

We know KNOW that is not true, sex is NOT taking advantage of women.

A big thing that I had to overcome was that it was OKAY to think about sex, and think of women lustfully. They complain about men thinking about sex all the time, etc. but that is actually what they want! (Just look at what most attractive women wear.) They love it!

The times when I didn't think this way, chicks tended to be more indifferent to me and ignore me. A guy has to break down that barrier in his mind that says "sex is subjugation".

The "dance" analogy (and other information) are things that you can tell some of the people that come on this forum to help them understand sexuality better, in order that they may 'partake' in the many beautiful women running around today.

This whole argument is kind of strange in that people see US as guys who take advantage of girls because we are just oh so MEAN and ROTTEN.

We take our natural role as the dominant one in the relationship, and they construe it as TYRANIC and OVERBEARING.

Many guys here when they first arrive, need to be shown that it is OKAY to think of women sexually; it is OKAY to be the controling one; it is OKAY to not take sh*t from a woman.

That is pretty much what it all comes down to.

Of course, we may be a little bit at fault for misunderstanding also, for we may see them as spineless p*ssys that bend to every woman's will.

That is probably NOT the case, yet, it is EASIER in society today to fall into that Oprah brainwashing. Therefore, we rally against it very strongly.

See, this is also why I HATE psychology, because the psychologist would say that it is PROJECTION.

The LTR guys look at the Player guys and say: "Oh, dirty dogs! How could you hate women so! Bad, bad!"

And the stupid psychologist would say that they are projecting thier 'unconcious thoughts' or whatever. He would say that they are afraid of embracing thier more animalistic nature, so they instead choose to demonize it in that way.

The Player guys look at the LTR guys and say: "Oh, you are weak weak! How could you be a lap dog just for some p*ssy!"

And the psychologist AGAIN says that they are projecting. He would say that the players are afraid to embrace thier compassionate natures, so they choose to demonize it also.

In REALITY, guys like us look in our PAST and remember how tough it was to "take the pill" and see reality, so we try to help others along. It SEEMS like we are only fighting for one side, yet, we are just aware of the former influences on that person by reference to our past.

Don't worry, we are still mindful of the balance.

The other side, though, the LTR guys. Many of them never went through a stage where they were on the "EVIL" extreme, so they really don't know what it is like, and can only conjecture. They see us, and they think we are evil because all of our arguments come from the side of "Be strong, only one can lead, etc."

It seems to them that we may hate women, and think that we think that we have to be complete jerks. That is not the case. It really is a balance.

If someone truly hates women (rather than ENJOYING them), they will not be happy. Period.