Communication is Key?

[GhostWriter]

Hey guys, I'm confused about communication and everything that I've learned.

Generally speaking, communication relative to a relationship.

Here are some things that I've learned about communicating, either from books or real life experiences. Mainly from the latter.

For one, you should never be accusatory, or make someone else responsible for how you are feeling.

You should always say things like...
"I'm feeling really angry right now"

As opposed to...
"You're making me really angry right now."
I learned that this makes you responsible for your own feelings.

So why is it when I say, "I feel uncomfortable that you're going to dinner with your ex."
Verbatim from my last LTR. We broke up 1-2 months ago
I get the... "You're jealous/controlling/insecure/etc..."

Or when I communicate "I don't appreciate what just happened."
Again, not focusing on that particular person.

I get the... "You're just over reacting/sensitive/etc...
WTF

Its like every time I communicate with a firm tone expressing sh!t that I deem inappropriate/disrespectful, it never works?
(BTW I pick and choose my battles. I'm only referring to legitimate cases.)

Or am I doing it wrong? Is my style of communication AFC?
Full Disclaimer - Recovering AFC

Are you supposed to say, "You're really pissing me off."
"If you ever do that again, you can find a new bf."

Just how important is verbal communication?
What would be the best way? None at all? Stick mainly to non-verbal?

I tire of girls saying how communication is so vital. Yet when I do, it only yields negative implications towards my dating life.

I find it very similar to them saying how much they want a nice guy...
At this point in time, I feel like anytime a problem arises, talking will only make it worse.

I'm merely reflecting, but would like to know a way to build my communication skills before my next relationship.
I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts/opinions.

 

[jophil28]

I tire of girls saying how communication is so vital. Yet when I do, it only yields negative implications towards my dating life.

You finally figured that out, right?

Do you know why women love verbal communication (or claim that they do?)?
Because they are experts at turning and twisting a "discussion" into a convoluted mess of illogic which ALWAYs ends in their taking the high ground of victimhood by pouting, sulking or finding a point of blame and pointing it at you.
This a game which women have practised and mastered since childhood. This game ,when played in an intimate realtinship with a man will always afford them the advantage- and believe me, the advantage, the upper hand, is what they are seeking..
If women truly wanted harmony, cooperation and mutuality, they would surely adopt an approach which generally led in that direction. Do they ?

Remember this - women today believe that they are 'entitled" to have whatever they want just because they want it, and it is also your place to shape and mold your life to accomodate their wishes..every last one of them.
THey are raised to believe in their embedded desire to have every inconvenience and difficulty resolve itself IN HER FAVOR.
Your wishes , wants and opinions are irrelevant to her and a mere source of irritation. That is why they have no time to listen and value your point of view.

So, how do you handle women like this ?
Firstly , realize that the belief in open communication that you have picked up along the way is a crock. If it worked, you would not have started this thread. It is a failed method from the 70's .
Next, understand that women today expect men to capitulate, and are taken aback when you do not.
Stop trying to 'reason" with women and be willing to act when they turn difficult..

The most valuable commodity that you possess is your affection and attention.
Take it away and just walk away next time. No discussion, no negotiation. not a peep. Just walk away.. the results might surprise you.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

OK, once again GHOSTWRITER,..

Dijo sin hablando - Told without speaking.

Communicate with your behavior. Never overtly tell a woman anything. Allow her to come to the conclusions you intend. Her imagination is the best tool in your DJ toolbox. Learn how to use it.

This is the single greatest failing of average frustrated chumps: they vomit out everything about themselves, divulging the full truth of themselves to women in the mistaken belief that women desire that truth as a basis for qualifying for their intimacy. Learn this now: Women NEVER want full disclosure. Nothing is more self-satisfying for a woman than to think she's figured a Man out based solely on her mythical feminine intuition (i.e. imagination). When you blurt out your 'feelings', regardless of the context or the nobility of your intent, all you do is deny her this satisfaction. And like an easily distracted child she discards you for another, more entertaining toy, that holds some kind of mystery or puzzle for her figure out.

Always remember, women care less about the content of what's being communicated and more about the context (the how) of what's being communicated. You bought the lie that good communication is the key to a good relationship with out considering how you communicate. Women are naturally solipsistic. Your 'feelings' aren't important to her until you make them important to her.

I realize it seems counterintuitive to deliberately withhold information that you think would solve whatever problem you have. Every touchy-feely therapist will tell you to open up and express yourself, but all that leads to is negotiation of desire. You cannot 'tell' women anything, they must be led to your conclusion and be made to think that they are the ones coming to it on their own.

Dijo sin hablando - Told without speaking.

 

[comic_relief]

The most valuable commodity that you possess is your affection and attention.
Take it away and just walk away next time. No discussion, no negotiation. not a peep. Just walk away.. the results might surprise you.

It's also your most valuable bargaining chip.

I tend to disagree with this sentiment at a single point though with respect to Jophil and Rollo, but maybe they can set me straight since I am a younger DJ (almost 24).

In a situation this, I tell the girl "If you need anything at all and it is important than call me and I will help you out." (verbalized) and later that week, there was a mess-up on her computer that made all of her upload (55 pictures) become cancelled to the school server. I go to her place, pick up her external hard drive, and bring it to her (backing up verbalized promise with actions). It was between classes for me and I was right near her apartment anyways.

I believe that while a lot of mystery is GOOD, there is sometimes a time when it is better to verbalize what is going on and follow through with it.

- Comic_Relief

 

[jophil28]

BTW GHOSTWRITE, here is an anecdote from about 25 years ago that you might find relevant, or amusing..

I was casually dating a nurse who got drunk at a party and embarrassed me.
Next day she came by and I told her that her behavior pissed me off.
She started at me with that "no blame" pop psych crap that you mentioned.
I said," So you want to hear statements from me beginning with "I"? (Smart ass bytche)
She said, "Yes."
I replied, " I think that you are a freakin idiot."

I laughed for two whole days.

 

[vatoloco]

Like I mention in my post, you wanna let her know non-verbally:

• Behavioral mirroring. Flip it around and do the same thing to her.
• Absence. Suddenly, you become really busy and can't see her.
• Lack of affection. Good girls get affection. As much as they'd like for you to believe otherwise, women enjoying physical contact (kissing, sex, etc.) If your girl's been bad, you cut off affection.

 

[GhostWriter]

*Throws away* Men are From Mars, Women Are From Venus

I understand now.

 

[Diaforetikos]

I agree with Jophil and Rollo. Don't speak, act.

But if you do insist on speaking about something you feel is worth speaking about, then use your tonality. What do I mean?

You said your girl would go see her ex and you were uncomfortable with that, right? Well how did you let her know. Was it some soft tone, "hey, babe, I don't think its a good idea for you guys to be hanging out"? Or was it, "hey, you can do whatever, but just so you know, that sh!t is hella disrespectful. But hey, do what you want... haaaaave fuuuun."

Hopefully it was the latter. Its your tone. Otherwise, you sound insecure and effeminate. But then again, this is assuming you want to verbalize how you feel.

 

[PrettyBoyAJ]

To be honest you need to try to hook up with the girl. I hope the BF finds out and that he breaks up with her however because this girl isn't quality at all. You need to make sure not to get serious with her though. Nothing wrong with you flirting but also make sure not to spend all your pennies on this girl.

To me there is nothing wrong with trying to game a girl with a boyfriend. If she is quality however she wouldn't be having that. and I have a lot of respect for that girl who does that and wishes that her and a relationship with her boyfriend succeeds.

Think of yourself as doing the boyfriend a favor. If he finds out he will know for sure his GF is not quality and he needs to man up and break up with her.

 

[GhostWriter]

To be honest you need to try to hook up with the girl. I hope the BF finds out and that he breaks up with her however because this girl isn't quality at all. You need to make sure not to get serious with her though. Nothing wrong with you flirting but also make sure not to spend all your pennies on this girl.

To me there is nothing wrong with trying to game a girl with a boyfriend. If she is quality however she wouldn't be having that. and I have a lot of respect for that girl who does that and wishes that her and a relationship with her boyfriend succeeds.

Think of yourself as doing the boyfriend a favor. If he finds out he will know for sure his GF is not quality and he needs to man up and break up with her.

You're mistaken, this was from my most recent previous long term exclusive relationship with this girl.

She was my gf because she asked me to be, but thanks for lookin' out.

 

[GhostWriter]

I agree with Jophil and Rollo. Don't speak, act.

But if you do insist on speaking about something you feel is worth speaking about, then use your tonality. What do I mean?

You said your girl would go see her ex and you were uncomfortable with that, right? Well how did you let her know. Was it some soft tone, "hey, babe, I don't think its a good idea for you guys to be hanging out"? Or was it, "hey, you can do whatever, but just so you know, that sh!t is hella disrespectful. But hey, do what you want... haaaaave fuuuun."

Hopefully it was the latter. Its your tone. Otherwise, you sound insecure and effeminate. But then again, this is assuming you want to verbalize how you feel.

Yes it was the latter, she pretty much invalidated how I felt (saying it's not disrespect, but jealously)

It's alright though, I won't verbalize anymore in the future.
I was misinformed about how to communicate and resolve conflicts within a relationship.

I understand now, you can consider this thread closed. Thank you all.

 

[trrush]

verbalizing my feelings has always bit me in the ass in the past.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Law 9: Win Through Your Actions, Never through Argument
Any momentary triumph you think you have gained through argument is really a Pyrrhic victory: The resentment and ill will you stir up is stronger and lasts longer than any momentary change of opinion. It is much more powerful to get others to agree with you through your actions, without saying a word. Demonstrate, do not explicate.

 

[comic_relief]

Law 9: Win Through Your Actions, Never through Argument
Any momentary triumph you think you have gained through argument is really a Pyrrhic victory: The resentment and ill will you stir up is stronger and lasts longer than any momentary change of opinion. It is much more powerful to get others to agree with you through your actions, without saying a word. Demonstrate, do not explicate.

Thank you Mr. Carnegie :yes:

Great rule Rollo

- comic_relief

 

[jophil28]

So why is it when I say, "I feel uncomfortable that you're going to dinner with your ex."
Verbatim from my last LTR. We broke up 1-2 months ago
I get the... "You're jealous/controlling/insecure/etc..."

Or when I communicate "I don't appreciate what just happened."
Again, not focusing on that particular person.

I get the... "You're just over reacting/sensitive/etc...
WTF

I bet that when you were reading those self help books you came across this gem , "When you speak your mind by expressing YOUR feelings, without accusation, nobody can deny them- after all they are your personal feelings."

Well, thats another crock.

In the two examples quoted above, you got nicely pizzed on by her for speaking about your 'feelings' .

Don't do that again.

 

[comic_relief]

I bet that when you were reading those self help books you came across this gem , "When you speak your mind by expressing YOUR feelings, without accusation, nobody can deny them- after all they are your personal feelings."

Well, thats another crock.

In the two examples quoted above, you got nicely pizzed on by her for speaking about your 'feelings' .

Don't do that again.

Yep, I tried that. "no one can argue your feelings"

No the other person can definitely argue your feelings against their feelings. I never tried it while in a relationship but after the relationship was over. I decided to try it on an ex-gf. That worked just as well as trying to ride a bike without wheels.

- comic_relief

 

[imarockstar]

Bumped.

Just wanted to keep this in my collection of posts.

Its so funny and so true how women will rationalize things to their favor. An interested girl won't go to dinner with an ex while she is dating you, she wouldn't want to screw things up. She may offer the situation as a sh*t test, which the OP failed. Instead, he should of told her to go for it, let her make the decision on her own, then gone out with his friends that night. Either she cancels her plans and realizes that she is in fact with a MAN after all, or she foolishly goes through with the dinner and is immediately nexted.

I swear, some things are so simple, yet we make them more complicated than they need be.

 

[Ricky]

OK, once again GHOSTWRITER,..

Dijo sin hablando - Told without speaking.

Communicate with your behavior. Never overtly tell a woman anything. Allow her to come to the conclusions you intend. Her imagination is the best tool in your DJ toolbox. Learn how to use it.

This is the single greatest failing of average frustrated chumps: they vomit out everything about themselves, divulging the full truth of themselves to women in the mistaken belief that women desire that truth as a basis for qualifying for their intimacy. Learn this now: Women NEVER want full disclosure. Nothing is more self-satisfying for a woman than to think she's figured a Man out based solely on her mythical feminine intuition (i.e. imagination). When you blurt out your 'feelings', regardless of the context or the nobility of your intent, all you do is deny her this satisfaction. And like an easily distracted child she discards you for another, more entertaining toy, that holds some kind of mystery or puzzle for her figure out.

Always remember, women care less about the content of what's being communicated and more about the context (the how) of what's being communicated. You bought the lie that good communication is the key to a good relationship with out considering how you communicate. Women are naturally solipsistic. Your 'feelings' aren't important to her until you make them important to her.

I realize it seems counterintuitive to deliberately withhold information that you think would solve whatever problem you have. Every touchy-feely therapist will tell you to open up and express yourself, but all that leads to is negotiation of desire. You cannot 'tell' women anything, they must be led to your conclusion and be made to think that they are the ones coming to it on their own.

Dijo sin hablando - Told without speaking.

Bumping this for good quality Rollo content

 

[RangerMIke]

First.... communication is a two way process. Just because you say something, does not mean the other person gets what you are saying. You might think you are being clear, but they might be hearing something else. The other thing you have to consider is if the person you are 'communicating' with actually cares about what you are trying to communicate.

You do not have to communicate with 'words'... in fact what you say is only a small part of what the other person is 'hearing'. Tone, body language and behavior is MUCH more important.

Having said that... never try to communicate emotion with words words with chicks. That doesn't work. The OP suggested saying "I'm feeling really angry right now". I really don't have a problem saying something like this, but it is not really that effective.

The WORDS 'happy', 'sad', 'angry', 'like', 'love', 'disappointed' et. al. are meaningless. This is where so many dudes fvck up with chicks, they do not know how to emotionally communicate with women.

You have to know FIRST what made you 'angry', then use an example to communicate your emotion. But you have to understand that if a chick really cares about your feelings, she fvcking knows you are angry... and she likely knows what you are angry about. Telling her this is a redundant waste of time. And if she doesn't care... well saying sh1t to her does nothing. How can she care if she doesn't care?

Anyway if you really feel like you have to communicate 'emotion' to a woman. Rather than say:

"I'm feeling really angry right now"

Say this instead.

"This reminds of the time when my best friend was lying behind my back."

Put the emotion in context with something she can relate to... it is much more effective.