Club Game vs OLD 2024: Findings & Questions

[jamesfromhouston]

Hey gents.

For the past few months, I've been trying club game every week.

Here are my findings and some questions below too:

I would go to a night club with a social circle that loves to party. We always have VIP tables. There would be girls at the table. At times I'll even invite girl friends to come for more social proofing. I wanted to really try club game and see what I can get out of it. To date, the result has been very mediocre. In fact, quite bad compared to OLD.

I'm 6 ft. Athletic as I work out. I dress well. I've never rated my own looks but girls have told me I look good. I also did a photo feeler survey for my dating profile pics and the scores were good.

My approach has been an amalgamation of what I read and researched on SS. I go into the club and hangout with my friends. I survey around regularly to see if there are any IOIs or clear displays of IL. To me this has usually been in the form of eye contact with smiles, or even a direct approach from the girls themselves. These are the ones I'll approach and pursue. They escalate well. But honestly, there hasn't been much instances of this happening. Probably 10 to 20% this has happened. And then I've not been able to successfully turn them to same night lays.

I have also tried direct approaching girls that I am interested in without regarding whether they have any interest level, but 90% of the time, these have been duds. Ill either get a soft reject where they speak to you courteously for awhile or sometimes an instant rude brush off.

I am a bad dancer so I don't really do dance approaches. I usually only dance and vibe to the music when I am drunk. I also do enjoy dancing with girls for escalation after I've successfully opened them elsewhere in the venue. But I assume the dynamics of the above also apply to dancing in terms of high IL and no IL.

So here's what seems good about club game compared to OLD:

- I've been on OLD for years. Over the past 2 years maybe with AI tech or better filter technology, I've actually been soft catfished a few times. Where the girl really doesn't look like her photos. This has never happened to me before in the past. And when it happens, some amount of time and effort is wasted. With club environment, you can see the girls upfront. Saves time in determining who is attractive to you.

- The escalation in club game happens much quicker than OLD when it's on. I've gone from saying hi to dancing then making out with the girl within 30 minutes. Maybe because of the music, drinks, environment and the acceptable behavior in a club. With OLD even on date 1, the kiss close takes time to build, sometimes a lot of talking is required before it happens. Sometimes some girls have Date 2 rules.

- It's easy to move around different sets and it's very fun. I've had some good nights that I met several different girls all in 1 night and moved between them to my liking. Also the environment is really fun. If the girl sucks, you can always go back to drinking, dancing and clubbing. With a date you're there till the end. Then you drive home. Its a time sink.

But here are my gripes about Club Game:

- It's honestly such a difficult environment. Music is loud af. You can barely talk. Girls often come in groups and their groups can bounce her any moment. Girls are also very distracted and get approached by guys very quickly. It's insanely packed. Youre being pushed left and right. Getting her attention seems to be so challenging. Opening your mouth alone seems like such a big ask in getting her to listen to you.

- I noticed girls in the club environment seem to be on a higher social position and feel more arrogant than girls you meet directly on dates. On dates the playing field feels more levelled and you can even take control of the frame easily. Club girls seem more ****y, arrogant and IDAF.

- It's such a waste of time and money on most nights. I would spend 4 hours there and buying drinks. From 12 to 4 am. And on most nights, there is no action. On most nights where I do not meet high IL girls, I struggle to even get basic contact exchanges. Compared to OLD, I am able to score contact exchanges almost a daily basis. And OLD doesn't require much time and money investment.

- Most girls nowadays that I meet in clubs don't seem to want to ****. They have high ASD by default. Yet I find with OLD I am able to get that lay in a more consistent way. OLD has brought me lays in the months Ive tried to club game. Not too sure why. Am I that at club game?

Overall, after months of clubbing, I feel like it's really been a rut for me.

Some questions:

- Those who have had success with club game, what do you do that is different? What is the most consistent strategy that has gotten you consistent results?

- Do PUA tricks still work on generating interest for direct approach of no to low IL girls? The idea of building interest, does it actually work in the club setting?

- How much am I missing out on not dance approaching?

For those who might be recommending social circle game, it's really not my thing. I date a lot and will likely cause rifts and be ostracized by circle game.

- James

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Try grocery store produce aisle approaches.
Thank me later.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

What is the location you are doing this in?

 

[jamesfromhouston]

What is the location you are doing this in?

Recently Europe. But I've also had a couple of weeks back home in the States over these months. More or less similar result.

 

[SW15]

I like that you've been out in the real world doing nightlife approaches lately while also trying to swipe on dating apps.

For those who might be recommending social circle game, it's really not my thing. I date a lot and will likely cause rifts and be ostracized by circle game.

Social circle game is a quality solution for a lot of men. I agree with you that the method isn't a good fit for your current style. Social circle game is best for geographically static men seeking longer term relationships.

It is true that social circle is great for getting a girlfriend for the men with fortunate enough situations in life to have them. Pay close attention to the words "a girlfriend". That means one girlfriend. If you're looking for an extended relationship (2-5 years or more), your best bet for getting that with the least amount of grief and frustration is social circle. Many men who get social circle girlfriends tend to retain those girlfriends for a long time and often beyond the useful life of the relationship. A lot of the social circle girlfriend guys are beta males and beta males operate from a scarcity mindset. It's common to see a 10 year+ relationship from social circle which does lead to a marriage proposal.

For men with social circles, the problem with the social circle method eventually becomes sustainability as social circles get pissed at men who continually exchange girlfriends, even if the relationships are semi-long (1-4 years). The behavior described in the last sentence is serial monogamy, so it is accurate to say that social circles get pissed off at serial monogamists. It is important to remember that social circles generally have a blue pill viewpoint on romantic relationships. A man might be able to pull 2 LTRs from a social circle without marrying one. After 2 instances, he will have typically bled the social circle dry. Then again, a lot of the beta males who use social circle game aren't interested in serial monogamy and believe in the idea of a sustainable, happier marriage.

It's honestly such a difficult environment. Music is loud af. You can barely talk. Girls often come in groups and their groups can bounce her any moment. Girls are also very distracted and get approached by guys very quickly. It's insanely packed. Youre being pushed left and right. Getting her attention seems to be so challenging. Opening your mouth alone seems like such a big ask in getting her to listen to you.

This is your fault. You are spending time in less than ideal nightlife venues. I'd recommend you spend more time in quieter lounge type places. In quieter nightlife venues, you'll have the opportunity to have a basic conversation. The quieter venues are still challenging enough with women in their social groups as you describe in the quote above. The advantage with the quieter venues is that you eliminate the noise level issue. A lot of seduction is eliminating barriers to successful seduction. Few men actually are sexually successful in those noisier venues.

It's such a waste of time and money on most nights. I would spend 4 hours there and buying drinks. From 12 to 4 am. And on most nights, there is no action. On most nights where I do not meet high IL girls, I struggle to even get basic contact exchanges. Compared to OLD, I am able to score contact exchanges almost a daily basis. And OLD doesn't require much time and money investment.

Most men leave both quieter venues and louder venues at 1-2 AM (if closing time is 2 AM) without a sexual partner for the night, without arranging a future first date, intoxicated, and unhappy they haven't achieved anything with 2+ hours in the bar or club. This is true in 2023-2024, was true in 2003-2004, was also true in 1983-1984.

Most girls nowadays that I meet in clubs don't seem to want to ****. They have high ASD by default. Yet I find with OLD I am able to get that lay in a more consistent way. OLD has brought me lays in the months Ive tried to club game. Not too sure why. Am I that at club game?

High ASD an be a part of nightlife venue same night seductions. If your value is high enough, the chances of ASD are lower.

Do PUA tricks still work on generating interest for direct approach of no to low IL girls? The idea of building interest, does it actually work in the club setting?

PUA tricks never worked on no to low IL women.

Try grocery store produce aisle approaches.

In the early 2010s, I transitioned to being a mostly non-bar venue approacher after 10+ years as a nightlife venue/random college party approacher guy. I prefer non-bar approaching.

The grocery store is the non-bar venue where I've obtained the most first dates.

That said, even grocery store game can be a drag and a disappointment. Lingering around Whole Foods for 2 hours to find approachable women isn't that much fun.

 

[Solomon]

Not to sound like a broken record but nightclub game post-COVID is a waste of time, unless you're in an area where nightlife didn't get affected by covid even then the social dynamics have changed as mentioned. Nightclub game has now turned into social circle game. Women use to go out with friends and also to meet guys. Now women go out with friends and get attention from guys. They already have "situatonships" boyfriends, husbands etc. Hence "Meat Markets" are dead in most cities all over the world.

1.IMO you better of going to a fashion event, boat party or exclusive event. To answer your question I had the most success in clubs from 2006-2012. Club game for me hasn't worked since 2019, I stopped going in 2021 when I realized the guys getting the most attention were the pretty boys or the guys with the most local social status. Mind you I don't go to "rink a dink" bars or clubs these the top spots in my city where the bouncers knew me by name and I could skip the line. Not going to lie I could do better if I was in better shape, no excuses!

2.If you can't dance then you may as well stay home (or learn)

3. As I said before try exclusive events I.E. Fashion shows, boat parties, niche events/parties may work out better for you

 

[jamesfromhouston]

This is your fault. You are spending time in less than ideal nightlife venues. I'd recommend you spend more time in quieter lounge type places. In quieter nightlife venues, you'll have the opportunity to have a basic conversation. The quieter venues are still challenging enough with women in their social groups as you describe in the quote above. The advantage with the quieter venues is that you eliminate the noise level issue. A lot of seduction is eliminating barriers to successful seduction. Few men actually are sexually successful in those noisier venues.

Do you find girls in quieter venues in places like high end lounges more resistant to cold approaches than clubs though? I mainly referring to the ones in groups. From observation they tend to be more close knit and seem to not want to be disturbed compared to the club scene where approaching is expected and more acceptable.

What's your general approach in these quieter venues?

 

[CAPSLOCK BANDIT]

One thing I will say, you don't have to be a stud in the club anymore, most guys today aren't Casanova, simply being present with a bit of resources and a will to get laid will take you pretty far

 

[Velasco]

I stopped going in 2021 when I realized the guys getting the most attention were the pretty boys

Not going to lie I could do better if I was in better shape, no excuses!

Then be a pretty boy in shape

 

[SW15]

Do you find girls in quieter venues in places like high end lounges more resistant to cold approaches than clubs though? I mainly referring to the ones in groups. From observation they tend to be more close knit and seem to not want to be disturbed compared to the club scene where approaching is expected and more acceptable.

What's your general approach in these quieter venues?

Nightlife venues in general have an expectation of approaching. Over the years, I have found the interior music level to have no impact upon openness to approaching.

I prefer approaching in venues without loud interior music because I am able to have enough of a conversation to advance the interaction. When I say advance the interaction, that could mean either same night sex or an agreement for a future first date with a phone number exchange. In a loud venue, it's possible for a man to seduce entirely on looks/physique. That would resemble the environment on a swipe app where it is the Top 10% guy attracts. In venues with lower noise levels where conversation is possible, men can compete on money, status, and personality aspects in addition to looks.

Women always go out in groups in nightlife venues. It's possible for a man to go alone to a nightlife venue and approach. I have done that many times over the years but don't enjoy doing that.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

The location has much to do with what guys experience in these conversations.

The club culture is much more prevalent outside the US than it is any longer in the US.

Culture comes into play a lot as well.

Never mind when someone turns out not to be who they claim they are. Written word cadence, sentence assembly, colloquialisms, and preconceived notions all stick out like sore thumbs for those who care to notice.

Add to that men's penchant for self-aggrandizement, and we're all shooting in the dark.

 

[SW15]

The club culture is much more prevalent outside the US than it is any longer in the US.

I agree with this. I'm in Dallas, which is the main city in the 4th largest metropolitan area in the United States.

There are far more bars without DJs and dance floors (a typical nightclub) than there are typical nightclub environments. The bars without DJs and dance floors are generally quieter, but not all of these bars without DJs and dance floors would be considered quiet. I would say most of the bars in Dallas without DJs and dance floors in Dallas are quiet enough to have a decent conversation for pickup.

That sentence has been true for the entire 10+ years I've lived in Dallas.

If it is true in Dallas, that shows that the nightclub culture is fading across the United States.

 

[member162951]

Try grocery store produce aisle approaches.
Thank me later.

There is something to be said for this^.

However, I don't recommend cold approach, many women find that intrusive and well, cringy. You DON'T want to present yourself as too thirsty, which is how many attractive women view it.

Simply wait for that "right" moment and have a conversation, naturally. Funny and a bit c0cky work well in that scenario!

If you're vibing and you're getting IOIs, escalate and get her number.

Imo, the reason why OLDing and club game fail is because it's obvious why you're there and as such, there is no mystery, no wondering "what are his intentions?" or spontaneity, all of which help to develop the initial attraction.

It's all spelled up front, you're there to meet a woman, hoping you click to either get a date or get laid.

Despite the typical narrative, it's NOT just about your look and style.

Seduce her MIND, and you won't do that by spelling out what your goal is like you do when you do OLDing or club game.

Mystery, uncertainty, the unknown (combined with your look and style which you already have) is what attracts women, imo and experience.

$.02.

 

[SW15]

Seduce her MIND

Yes! This is good.

I don't recommend cold approach, many women find that intrusive and well, cringy. You DON'T want to present yourself as too thirsty, which is how many attractive women view it.

Simply wait for that "right" moment and have a conversation, naturally. Funny and a bit c0cky work well in that scenario!

There is a difference between approaching a stranger and spam approaching every female. It is good to selectively approach strangers. It is bad to approach every female in sight either in a non-bar venue or a nightlife venue.

 

[member162951]

There is a difference between approaching a stranger and spam approaching every female.
It is good to selectively approach strangers.

Fair enough however put yourself in HER shoes, how is she to know you're 'selectively approaching" her?

She's gonna think you're just another thirsty guy who wants to get into her panties.

Best to create or take advantage of opportunities to converse naturally in natural settings. Leave her wondering what your intentions are.

JMO but @Gamisch has written about this too. Perhaps he can chime in.

 

[SW15]

Fair enough however put yourself in HER shoes, how is she to know you're 'selectively approaching" her?

She's gonna think you're just another thirsty guy who wants to get into her panties.

Best to create or take advantage of opportunities to converse naturally in natural settings. Leave her wondering what your intentions are.

If the interaction appears natural. I have had women text me after I approached them in a daygame setting that they enjoyed meeting me in such an unexpected way. They met me while I was doing a dedicated daygame session but I made it look natural.

 

[member162951]

They met me while I was doing a dedicated daygame session but I made it look natural.

That is exactly what I mean, like exactly! You created an opportunity to talk naturally.

Most men are unable to pull that off though and end up appearing awkward and the approach contrived and forced.

 

[jamesfromhouston]

Thanks everyone for the input. Some interesting responses.

However, I don't recommend cold approach, many women find that intrusive and well, cringy. You DON'T want to present yourself as too thirsty, which is how many attractive women view it.

Simply wait for that "right" moment and have a conversation, naturally. Funny and a bit c0cky work well in that scenario!

If you're vibing and you're getting IOIs, escalate and get her number.

Imo, the reason why OLDing and club game fail is because it's obvious why you're there and as such, there is no mystery, no wondering "what are his intentions?" or spontaneity, all of which help to develop the initial attraction.

It's all spelled up front, you're there to meet a woman, hoping you click to either get a date or get laid.

Despite the typical narrative, it's NOT just about your look and style.

Seduce her MIND, and you won't do that by spelling out what your goal is like you do when you do OLDing or club game.

Mystery, uncertainty, the unknown (combined with your look and style which you already have) is what attracts women, imo and experience.

$.02.

I like this. What a great perspective.

If the interaction appears natural. I have had women text me after I approached them in a daygame setting that they enjoyed meeting me in such an unexpected way. They met me while I was doing a dedicated daygame session but I made it look natural.

What's your approach in making it look natural? Is it similar to @JoyDivision1990 ?

I don't know i haven't been out club gaming in a while but pua has evolved you just need to keep up to date with lines that do work nowadays as you can't keep using the same lines over the years. There's no building interest in the club just keep esacalating and you'll get the lay.

I know of some dudes that reccommend social circle game but that doesn't work for me. For me when I go out alone I get more results a lot more like 30-40% more success rate with kiss closes and same night lays.


My questions for you are:

-what do you mean by IL ?
-what is OLD?

It's been years since I touched or looked at PUA materials. Which PUAs do you still find relevant today?

I've actually never done solo club gaming. The closest I have done to solo gaming is when I worked in night clubs DJing and sometimes I would have short breaks between sets. But I've actually never gone out to a club by myself for the purpose of solo gaming. I think the biggest hurdle for me is the mental hurdle. Makes me feel a bit self-conscious. The idea that I don't really have any friends to fall back to in between approaching and just makes me feel like a loser. I know these maybe limiting beliefs.

IL as in interest level.
OLD as in online dating.

 

[DonJuanjr]

Approaching to make it not look like I'm talking to the woman to get her number/date is hard in grocery stores. How do you make natural conversation when a girl is picking up a jar of olives? Like a random person really cares enough about olives to start a conversation about them. In my opinion there is no mystery in daygame, they know why you're talking to them at a grocery store about inane ingredients.

 

[SW15]

What's your approach in making it look natural?

Ideally, you want to see some sort of indicator of interest (IOI). I like making strong eye contact, smiling at them, and them smiling back at me. If I make eye contact with a woman and she smiles back, it's on. It looks natural.

This is somewhat difficult to achieve in the real world. I noticed as far back as the early 2010s that Millennial women were poor body language signalers. This is a trend that has continued into the 2020s. I noticed that I was getting more positive body language in the mid-2000s as compared to the early 2010s and the biggest change then was technology. The smartphone had been introduced in the years in between 2004-2005 and 2011-2012.

You're doing a lot of nightlife venue game so that helps you. Women expect to be approached in nightlife venues so making things look natural is less of a concern as compared to non-bar venues, where women are less commonly approached.

You are able to do nightlife approaches without major approach anxiety and that's good.

Approaching to make it not look like I'm talking to the woman to get her number/date is hard in grocery stores. How do you make natural conversation when a girl is picking up a jar of olives? Like a random person really cares enough about olives to start a conversation about them. In my opinion there is no mystery in daygame, they know why you're talking to them at a grocery store about inane ingredients.

I learned daygame from reading Roosh's "Day Bang" not long after its September 2011 release. The technique promoted in grocery stores in that book would be ask if something is good in her grocery basket, connect it meaningfully to her life, then use the GALNUC conversational framework to get a date agreement with her and collect her contact information.

I have had many interactions in a grocery store similar to what you describe. I can recall one interaction where I saw an attractive woman looking at spices in a grocery store and I started the interaction around using those spices in specific meals. It looked natural even if my goal was to get her on a date.