Clearing the air: the PUA vs the DJ

[TillTheEndOfTime]

PUA = pick up artist.

A PUA is a womanizer. A PUA is just as insecure as an AFC. The only difference is that a PUA knows how to attract certain types of women to mask that insecurity (think of the shy/anti-social kid at school vs a bully, on the surface they are REALLY different, but on the inside they are the same).

A PUA lacks emotional maturity, because all of his time and focus is put into figuring out how to "fool" women, instead of growing into a real, better person. The PUA becomes what he needs to be at some instant to bed a woman and loses sight of his true identity (thus having no solid identity). The result is an emotionally jaded and immature person, incapable of forming sincere social bonds based on trust.

Because of all that mentioned above, the PUA is generally a spiteful and unhappy person on the inside. They are only capable projecting a false identity to the public (that's how they get women) as a diversion, but they are pitiful people behind that facade. They are unworth of happiness and doomed to eventual failure, unless they change their attitude.

A DJ is NOT a womanizer. A DJ is completely secure, and does not need women or sex to feel good about themselves. They have nothing to hide and nothing to mask. They may have been insecure in the past, but they have worked on genuinely improving their self-image (notice SELF-image, vs the PUA who is only concered with the PROJECTED image) and confidence.

The result is that a DJ is emotionally mature and capable of handling rejection with dignity. The DJ holds no resentment towards women. The DJ is able to form strong bonds with both men and women and can trust where trust is due. The DJ respects women as people, but at the same time will not tolerate disprespect from any women. The image he projects is exactly what he is, so that there is no indentity issues.

Thus, a DJ is generally a happy and positive person on the inside who attracts women not by becoming whoever he needs to be at some instant in time, but by just being the improved man he made himself to be.

 

[ModernSavage]

Honestly, this is all just a matter of semantics. The terms PUA and DJ are really the same thing; a guy who wants to be better than average with meeting and attracting women.

It seems that your post here is just trying to demonize the term PUA and promote the term DJ.

Now, I agree that the term "pick-up artist" sounds kind of cheesey and typically has a negative conotation in the public realm. However, if you read other message boards like mASF for instance, you'll realize that the people on there who call themselves PUAs fit the definition for what you describe as a DJ.

Personally, I like to call myself a "seduction artist" because I like the ring to it. Does that mean I'm a shallow womanizer? No, of course not. I aim to be a man who is secure, honest, and respectful towards women while still posessing the ability to meet and attract them.

Does it really matter what you call yourself? As long as you are out there putting in the work and becomming a BETTER MAN then what does it matter if you call yourself a PUA, DJ, Seduction Artist, or Flying Turd Monkey. Just get out there and improve yourself.

 

[DJDamage]

A DJ is NOT a womanizer.

Can you tell me what do you think the word "womanizer" means? because this is a social contrived word invented by women to make men feel ashamed about hooking up with many other women. By society definition a Don Juan is a womanizer.

A DJ is completely secure, and does not need women or sex to feel good about themselves.

I would be careful how you define being a DJ. All those AFC's that already gave up on getting a hot girl can also fit into that catagory because they do not need women or sex to feel good, there is always porn and WoW available instead.

I would add that as a DJ we do not need women or sex to feel good but it makes it BETTER when we do. But this is one source of happiness we explore because we channel our energies into many sources and thus you end up making yourself better (you reach your potential of what a you are capable of) in the end.

Its all about being balanced in life by not neglecting anything else in life (your health, women, job, happiness ect - you should have them all and know how to balance them all).

The difference is that a PUA will sacrific everything to get a woman including his identity. So by the end of the day when he finishes to fvck the woman and she leaves him, he feels empty and sad again because sometimes due to pursuing her he neglects everything else. He usually has one channel of energy that keeps him happy and that is being with a woman. Thus like a drug he continue's to chase women in order to stay happy and doesn't end up growing up and reaching his full potential and being comfortable in his own skin.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I agree with DJD, it really seems as if the difference are their goals and the manner in which they achieve them. PUAs seem to be externally focused on efficiently closing quantities of women. DJs seem to be internally focused on the concepts of achievement which include but not limited to the successful engagement with women.

 

[Falcon]

I know I am repeating what others have said, but on this forum, it is simple.

DJ focuses on himself.
PUA focuses on women.

It's a HUGE difference. A DJ will pursue a hobby/activity/goal because he is really interested or has a passion for it. But the PUA will do the same so he can appear congruent or display high value. Notice the focus is on women with the PUA. Huge difference.

Even though most of the pioneers of the DJ mindset are no longer posting on this forum, it's great to see that the spirit hasn't left.

 

[TillTheEndOfTime]

Can you tell me what do you think the word "womanizer" means? because this is a social contrived word invented by women to make men feel ashamed about hooking up with many other women. By society definition a Don Juan is a womanizer.

I am treading into gray waters here, since definitions are not always universal. I am not claiming anything here as fact, these are my opinions. With that said, let's not kid ourselves. DJ's want sex just as PUA's do. The difference is that PUA's DEHUMANIZE women, the DJ does not. That's why I call the PUA a womanizer and not the DJ. That's my definiton, which I know is not a "standard".

I would be careful how you define being a DJ. All those AFC's that already gave up on getting a hot girl can also fit into that catagory because they do not need women or sex to feel good, there is always porn and WoW available instead.

The definition doesn't boil down to ONE single quality. Even if you used this technicality, I doubt the AFC that gives up on women is a secure person. That right there violates a prerequisite for being a DJ and disqualifies that AFC. I think I should also add that a DJ is attractive to women and wouldn't have the problem the AFC has (that's not to say a DJ has a 100% success rate).

I would add that as a DJ we do not need women or sex to feel good but it makes it BETTER when we do. But this is one source of happiness we explore because we channel our energies into many sources and thus you end up making yourself better (you reach your potential of what a you are capable of) in the end.

Its all about being balanced in life by not neglecting anything else in life (your health, women, job, happiness ect - you should have them all and know how to balance them all).

The difference is that a PUA will sacrific everything to get a woman including his identity. So by the end of the day when he finishes to fvck the woman and she leaves him, he feels empty and sad again because sometimes due to pursuing her he neglects everything else. He usually has one channel of energy that keeps him happy and that is being with a woman. Thus like a drug he continue's to chase women in order to stay happy and doesn't end up growing up and reaching his full potential and being comfortable in his own skin.

Will agree 100% here.

 

[Charm]

I know I am repeating what others have said, but on this forum, it is simple.

DJ focuses on himself.
PUA focuses on women.

It's a HUGE difference. A DJ will pursue a hobby/activity/goal because he is really interested or has a passion for it. But the PUA will do the same so he can appear congruent or display high value. Notice the focus is on women with the PUA. Huge difference.

Even though most of the pioneers of the DJ mindset are no longer posting on this forum, it's great to see that the spirit hasn't left.

You in your own personal reality give the meaning to the words you use. One persons DJ is another persons PUA. Some people don't even care about titles. There are DJs that never even think of themselves as one and why would they need to?

If a person is going to be able to seduce the women he wants, he needs to be able to focus on them. That is where you are totally off beat. DJ or PUA must learn to focus on women so they can actually listen to what the woman is saying and build rapport with them. Otherwise you end up being shallow and full of ****tail bullsh!t no-meaning conversations. So go back and rethink your meanings because you are quite confused.

 

[Falcon]

You in your own personal reality give the meaning to the words you use. One persons DJ is another persons PUA. Some people don't even care about titles. There are DJs that never even think of themselves as one and why would they need to?

If a person is going to be able to seduce the women he wants, he needs to be able to focus on them. That is where you are totally off beat. DJ or PUA must learn to focus on women so they can actually listen to what the woman is saying and build rapport with them. Otherwise you end up being shallow and full of ****tail bullsh!t no-meaning conversations. So go back and rethink your meanings because you are quite confused.

Obviously you do have to focus on a woman if you want her. You do actually have to talk to her and stuff. I'm talking about things on a larger scale. I was going to type a lot of stuff in this post, but then I realized you have a quote in your signature that I completely agree with and was similar to what I was going to type. So yes, now I am confused. Maybe you can clear it up because I feel we are arguing the same thing. I'm here to learn so I'm willing to listen.

 

[howardalex]

sorry guys but this thread seems quite gay - just concentrate on improving yourself, women will follow, but don't take any crap...

IMO giving yourself a label is a daft idea, there's no need and it's a sign of trying to conform to something - be yourself

 

[Charm]

Howardalex,

If you search for the words "Be Yourself" on this forum you'll find thousands of posts that said the same and they didn't help people any more than yours has howardalex. You generalized everything you say. You said concentrate on improving yourself but provided no ways of specifically how someone can improve themself while concentrating. You critize this thread and labels yet you yourself have labeled this thread as being gay which is insulting to the guy who took time putting his thoughts down to write it.

 

[God_of_getting_layed]

this is the dumbest thread Ive read in a while.

Theyre pretty much the same god dman thing.

 

[Lust]

PUA = pick up artist.

A PUA is a womanizer. A PUA is just as insecure as an AFC. The only difference is that a PUA knows how to attract certain types of women to mask that insecurity (think of the shy/anti-social kid at school vs a bully, on the surface they are REALLY different, but on the inside they are the same).

A PUA lacks emotional maturity, because all of his time and focus is put into figuring out how to "fool" women, instead of growing into a real, better person. The PUA becomes what he needs to be at some instant to bed a woman and loses sight of his true identity (thus having no solid identity). The result is an emotionally jaded and immature person, incapable of forming sincere social bonds based on trust.

Because of all that mentioned above, the PUA is generally a spiteful and unhappy person on the inside. They are only capable projecting a false identity to the public (that's how they get women) as a diversion, but they are pitiful people behind that facade. They are unworth of happiness and doomed to eventual failure, unless they change their attitude.

A DJ is NOT a womanizer. A DJ is completely secure, and does not need women or sex to feel good about themselves. They have nothing to hide and nothing to mask. They may have been insecure in the past, but they have worked on genuinely improving their self-image (notice SELF-image, vs the PUA who is only concered with the PROJECTED image) and confidence.

The result is that a DJ is emotionally mature and capable of handling rejection with dignity. The DJ holds no resentment towards women. The DJ is able to form strong bonds with both men and women and can trust where trust is due. The DJ respects women as people, but at the same time will not tolerate disprespect from any women. The image he projects is exactly what he is, so that there is no indentity issues.

Thus, a DJ is generally a happy and positive person on the inside who attracts women not by becoming whoever he needs to be at some instant in time, but by just being the improved man he made himself to be.

Sounds like someone has spend a little too much time here and is a little fond of this site, getting a little bitter of the other sites are we?

There is no difference.

What bascially said was "PUAs are bad, DJs are better, I like DJs".

But its the same thing,

You can't tell me there isn't a DJ that does at least some of the things you depicted the "PUA" would do, one of the negative things.

What you said was that PUAs only work on Outer Game, nothing for the inside, no Inner Game, being "Secure" and "Respecting Women", how wrong you are.

 

[mrRuckus]

Why does it matter?

And there are plenty of other threads already about this same thing.

 

[MVPlaya]

PUA = pick up artist.

A PUA is a womanizer. A PUA is just as insecure as an AFC. The only difference is that a PUA knows how to attract certain types of women to mask that insecurity (think of the shy/anti-social kid at school vs a bully, on the surface they are REALLY different, but on the inside they are the same).

How are PUA's insecure about themselves. Did you go out and poll / psycho-analyze PUA's? If so, what was your sample size?

Is this post basically "hi i just red 2 pages of some fastseduction material and like these guys r insecure roflz." Cause if so, what are you basing this on?

[quote[A PUA lacks emotional maturity, because all of his time and focus is put into figuring out how to "fool" women, instead of growing into a real, better person. The PUA becomes what he needs to be at some instant to bed a woman and loses sight of his true identity (thus having no solid identity). The result is an emotionally jaded and immature person, incapable of forming sincere social bonds based on trust.[/quote]
Why are PUA's emotionally immature and focused on fooling women? How are DJs emotionally mature and "real, better person"? How do PUA's not have solid identities while DJ's do?

Because of all that mentioned above, the PUA is generally a spiteful and unhappy person on the inside. They are only capable projecting a false identity to the public (that's how they get women) as a diversion, but they are pitiful people behind that facade. They are unworth of happiness and doomed to eventual failure, unless they change their attitude.

What do you mean by "because of all the mentioned above"? You haven't explained anything, explained why what you're saying is right, or how it even makes sense. I saw a laundry list of childish analogies that lead me to believe you are extremely novice at either DJ or PUA and want to write a silly 'feel good' post to feel really proud about the forum you're currently posting on. Let me ask you, when you walk around and meet people, do you think to yourself "man, im such an awesome sosuave member"? Because if I have to identify as either PUA or DJ, I'd probably pick PUA since the material is a lot more sensible, but I when I'm outside, I'm just me. Just like you are (most likely I hope) you. Whats all this nonsensical psycho-analysis of an entire group of people, all with different beliefs, philosophies, religions, personalities, skillsets, skill-levels, experiences, and orientations?

A DJ is NOT a womanizer. A DJ is completely secure, and does not need women or sex to feel good about themselves. They have nothing to hide and nothing to mask. They may have been insecure in the past, but they have worked on genuinely improving their self-image (notice SELF-image, vs the PUA who is only concered with the PROJECTED image) and confidence.

If DJ's are so secure why do they post all day on an online forum about getting better at dating women? Why do they read documents such as the "DJ Bible" and deify posts written by a guy called Pook? If DJs have nothing to hide does that mean they'll freely talk about past failures, insecurities, lost loves, and various other errors to women?

Also, where in reading a set of pages by a guy who refers to himself as Mystery did I suddenly lose the ability to have a self-image and become a person based wholly off projection? Also, what makes one deontologically superior to the other?

The result is that a DJ is emotionally mature and capable of handling rejection with dignity. The DJ holds no resentment towards women. The DJ is able to form strong bonds with both men and women and can trust where trust is due. The DJ respects women as people, but at the same time will not tolerate disprespect from any women. The image he projects is exactly what he is, so that there is no indentity issues.

Who is this mythical DJ and why do I not see him post on this board?

Thus, a DJ is generally a happy and positive person on the inside who attracts women not by becoming whoever he needs to be at some instant in time, but by just being the improved man he made himself to be.

Isn't versatility a form of improvement? Are DJ's thus wholly nonadaptable people incapable of adjusting to different social and cultural environments?


This post just struck me as something really novice written by a decently intelligent guy with little to no experience at either PUA-ism or DJ-ism.

 

[DJF or John]

"Titles" are like "stereotypes," the definition changes with each person.

To "that guy" I'm a hardcore thugged out black male. To "that guy" I'm an intelligent human being with a great head on his shoulders.

A PUA to some, is just a person who uses tricks and techniques and puts on a show to get some azz. While a DJ to some is a person who focuses on his inner game to get results.

However, to one his own, many people see the PUA and the DJ in their own way.

I think the bottom line is, have fun. FUN. It doesn't matter what you call yourself at the end of the day, call yourself whatever, but have Fun.

I don't really think a guy gets to either a PUA status or a DJ status WITHOUT having the strengths of what really is a PUA and a DJ! And their major strength is that of being able to score with many beautiful women.

So hey, we are all successful with women.....call yourself whatever you like.

 

[Lust]

How are PUA's insecure about themselves. Did you go out and poll / psycho-analyze PUA's? If so, what was your sample size?

Is this post basically "hi i just red 2 pages of some fastseduction material and like these guys r insecure roflz." Cause if so, what are you basing this on?


Why are PUA's emotionally immature and focused on fooling women? How are DJs emotionally mature and "real, better person"? How do PUA's not have solid identities while DJ's do?


What do you mean by "because of all the mentioned above"? You haven't explained anything, explained why what you're saying is right, or how it even makes sense. I saw a laundry list of childish analogies that lead me to believe you are extremely novice at either DJ or PUA and want to write a silly 'feel good' post to feel really proud about the forum you're currently posting on. Let me ask you, when you walk around and meet people, do you think to yourself "man, im such an awesome sosuave member"? Because if I have to identify as either PUA or DJ, I'd probably pick PUA since the material is a lot more sensible, but I when I'm outside, I'm just me. Just like you are (most likely I hope) you. Whats all this nonsensical psycho-analysis of an entire group of people, all with different beliefs, philosophies, religions, personalities, skillsets, skill-levels, experiences, and orientations?


If DJ's are so secure why do they post all day on an online forum about getting better at dating women? Why do they read documents such as the "DJ Bible" and deify posts written by a guy called Pook? If DJs have nothing to hide does that mean they'll freely talk about past failures, insecurities, lost loves, and various other errors to women?

Also, where in reading a set of pages by a guy who refers to himself as Mystery did I suddenly lose the ability to have a self-image and become a person based wholly off projection? Also, what makes one deontologically superior to the other?


Who is this mythical DJ and why do I not see him post on this board?


Isn't versatility a form of improvement? Are DJ's thus wholly nonadaptable people incapable of adjusting to different social and cultural environments?


This post just struck me as something really novice written by a decently intelligent guy with little to no experience at either PUA-ism or DJ-ism.

That guy just beat the your "theory" senseless. I don't see how you can be so sure that you are right.

 

[thirtyplus]

What is the point of this whole "X versus Y" frame anyway?

Guys, when men compete with other men in this small-time way, EVERYBODY LOSES. Even the women.

Now I am all for healthy competition, that involves, for instance, ACTUAL SKILLS, not some internet keyboard-jockey bandying semantics.

Get off the internet and go sarge. Who cares what people call you?

 

[PUA]

I think being able to pick-up women is part of what a DJ is, not the whole. The DJ mindset is of course the superior mindset and this will undoubtedly help him in future relationships. However, it is, in my opinion a vital asset for the DJ to be able to assertain a solid game to attract and keep his women. This is not insecurity, it is just having a little game. Being secure with yourself does not automatically get you women. You need to get into the field and use your PU skills confidently to get the women and the DJ mindset will help keep the girl and ensure that you are happy in the relationship.

They both work hand in hand, but in my experience going out into the field is at least 50% of what DJ is all about.

 

[insidious]

PUA, DJ, whatever, I think it's all shades of gray. I would say the PUA is a hollow man who has learned how to manipulate women into bedplay; the DJ has learned to be ultimately comfortable in his own skin and even if he doesn't get laid, life is still good. And he doesn't have to fool himself into believing that.

Essentially, I think this whole dichotomy has NOTHING to do with getting laid. It has to do with self-respect. About walking through life proudly with your shoulders held high.

 

[Trapper]

so whats the ultimate objective? Pussssyy right..so who cares don juan, alpha male, pua, whatever.....just put them in a box, and be yourself..