Change for a woman?

[zekko]

I don't see the need to ever change for a woman. If you get into a LTR, that's a pretty serious situation, and you should make sure that you are compatible enough that any suggestion of change is unnecessary. It's all a matter of picking the right girl.

Now changing for women, that's a different subject, one I'm struggling with currently. I keep hearing about how being more social will make you more attractive with women. My personal preference is to stick to myself more, I like a certain amoutn of solitude, being an introvert. I used to be quite social when I was younger, but as I got older I got away from it. So should I go back to being more social, just to be more pleasing to women, when if it were up to me I'd rather not? I suppose on some level socializing more would let me shake some of the rust off, so it could be looked at as self improvement in that way. But being attractive to women would be the main motivation toward doing it. And is that a good thing?

 

[Colossus]

I understand your question to be if a man has not formally cultivated respectful behavior and as a result treats his woman poorly, should he change.

To this I would say YES. Not for the woman, but for himself and his future communication with people in general. If a man wants to be respected, he should respect first.

Thanks Guru, that is what I was asking.

I came to the conclusion that even if it doesn't work out with my current gf, learning how to be more attentive (in a respectful way, not in the supplicative sense) will serve me well in future relationships. It's just something I need to learn. I've had several relationships fail because of a lack of attention on my part. And no, these girls were not attention-hors, they were just pretty normal chicks who wanted what any normal girl would want.

At first I thought "screw her, this is just who I am", but then I reflected on it a bit and realized I was just being plain selfish. I have boundaries and I'm not a chump. I'm not talking about changing my personality or my character; just about bringing a little more to the table than good looks and a good lay.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Change for a woman, if some traits of personality go against let' s say any sort of interaction or relationships ( with women included) maybe it is wise to change them.
Not for a woman directly but to improve your interaction with her.

Does that make sense ?

And that's the danger, where do you end and she begin? The reason I wrote Identity Crisis almost 5 years ago was exactly this. Men tend to adopt a position of constantly qualifying for a woman's intimacy, and understandably women reinforce this because to puts them in control of the frame and aids in their sexual selection. Most guys will make fundamental changes if they believe it will increase their chances of qualifying for a woman's intimacy. Are they genuinely inspired, or are they deductively reasoned changes meant to qualify for her acceptance - A+B= sex?

The real insidious part is that the more deprived a man is of that intimacy, the more he's likely to convince himself that the change is genuine. Whenever I hear a guy or a woman say "we're working on our relationship" or "relationships are a lot of work and compromise", 90% of the time it translates to the man changing or compromising to better fit the woman's ideal. He's being 'fixed', he's broken and he needs to change. It often gets to the point where the guy will believe that there IS something wrong with him - it's her reality he must conform to because it's the 'proper' reality.

When Lois Lane met Superman he was fighting crime, could bend steel in his bare hands, stop locomotives, leap over tall buildings in a single bound; sh!t, Superman could fly! Then he met Lois and swept her away, rocked her world in the sack and fell in love with her because thats what men do. After a year of this whirwind Lois starts nagging Superman, "Why do you have to always be out there fighting crime, huh? Why do you always have to prove you're so Macho? Does it threaten your Ego? You really need to get in touch with your feminine side. What about MY needs and why can't you get a real job? I'm not getting any younger you know, you've got some responsibilities to live up to. When am I gonna see a ring?"

So eventually this wears down on Superman and he submits to Lois' requests (demands?). After all he 'should' really 'grow up' anyway, right? It's the right thing to do. So Superman changes his name to Clark Kent (Super-'MAN' was so male-self-agrandizing anyway) and lands a job as a reporter at a great metropolitan newspaper. Clark begins wearing glasses - even though he can see X-Rays, and shoot lasers out his eyes, he wears them because Lois says it makes him look distinguished and SHE likes them.

Time goes on and Lois and Clark marry. 5 years into the marriage Lois gets bored. Same old, same old. Clark is so mundane and unassuming. She longs for the days he would fly and do that funny steel bending trick he used to do when they were dating. He hasn't done any of that for so long; not because he can't, but because he's afraid she'll get upset with him and not put out that evening if he gets '****y' with her. In fact she's not putting out even half as much as she used to these days. Clark just doesn't arouse her as much as he once did and she just can't seem to put her finger on the reason for it.

Then one day Lois runs into a guy named Bruce Wayne. Bruce was dark, mysterious and in great shape! He couldn't fly, but he made up for that in so many other ways. He fought crime! He wore a mask and spoke in short, purposeful sentences, never mincing words. He didn't wear glasses (that was so retro!) and he came and went at the time of his pleasing, not hers. He sent shivers down Lois' spine (and other places that hadn't felt shivers in a while) when he began seeing her.

Then one day, after a 60 hour work week at the Daily Planet (swanky apartments don't rent cheap), Clark made his way home on the subway (since flying was out of the question) and picked up a dozen roses to suprise Lois with (she tended to put out when he showed his 'feminine side') when he got back to the apartment. However it was poor Clark who got the suprise upon discovering Bruce Wayne bending Lois over the kitchen table when he opend the door. Bruce propmptly towled off while Clark, slack-jawed with horror, watched speechless.

"How could you? After all we've meant to eachother!" Clark began to cry as Bruce excused himself from the now estranged couple. Clark was used to crying a lot now to show his sensitivity.

"What could you have possibly seen in a guy like that?!" He shrieked like a school girl.

"Well,.." Lois said indifferently, "Batman is a Superhero."

 

[Warrior74]

And that's the danger, where do you end and she begin? The reason I wrote Identity Crisis almost 5 years ago was exactly this. Men tend to adopt a position of constantly qualifying for a woman's intimacy, and understandably women reinforce this because to puts them in control of the frame and aids in their sexual selection. Most guys will make fundamental changes if they believe it will increase their chances of qualifying for a woman's intimacy. Are they genuinely inspired, or are they deductively reasoned changes meant to qualify for her acceptance - A+B= sex?

The real insidious part is that the more deprived a man is of that intimacy, the more he's likely to convince himself that the change is genuine. Whenever I hear a guy or a woman say "we're working on our relationship" or "relationships are a lot of work and compromise", 90% of the time it translates to the man changing or compromising to better fit the woman's ideal. He's being 'fixed', he's broken and he needs to change. It often gets to the point where the guy will believe that there IS something wrong with him - it's her reality he must conform to because it's the 'proper' reality.

When Lois Lane met Superman he was fighting crime, could bend steel in his bare hands, stop locomotives, leap over tall buildings in a single bound; sh!t, Superman could fly! Then he met Lois and swept her away, rocked her world in the sack and fell in love with her because thats what men do. After a year of this whirwind Lois starts nagging Superman, "Why do you have to always be out there fighting crime, huh? Why do you always have to prove you're so Macho? Does it threaten your Ego? You really need to get in touch with your feminine side. What about MY needs and why can't you get a real job? I'm not getting any younger you know, you've got some responsibilities to live up to. When am I gonna see a ring?"

So eventually this wears down on Superman and he submits to Lois' requests (demands?). After all he 'should' really 'grow up' anyway, right? It's the right thing to do. So Superman changes his name to Clark Kent (Super-'MAN' was so male-self-agrandizing anyway) and lands a job as a reporter at a great metropolitan newspaper. Clark begins wearing glasses - even though he can see X-Rays, and shoot lasers out his eyes, he wears them because Lois says it makes him look distinguished and SHE likes them.

Time goes on and Lois and Clark marry. 5 years into the marriage Lois gets bored. Same old, same old. Clark is so mundane and unassuming. She longs for the days he would fly and do that funny steel bending trick he used to do when they were dating. He hasn't done any of that for so long; not because he can't, but because he's afraid she'll get upset with him and not put out that evening if he gets '****y' with her. In fact she's not putting out even half as much as she used to these days. Clark just doesn't arouse her as much as he once did and she just can't seem to put her finger on the reason for it.

Then one day Lois runs into a guy named Bruce Wayne. Bruce was dark, mysterious and in great shape! He couldn't fly, but he made up for that in so many other ways. He fought crime! He wore a mask and spoke in short, purposeful sentences, never mincing words. He didn't wear glasses (that was so retro!) and he came and went at the time of his pleasing, not hers. He sent shivers down Lois' spine (and other places that hadn't felt shivers in a while) when he began seeing her.

Then one day, after a 60 hour work week at the Daily Planet (swanky apartments don't rent cheap), Clark made his way home on the subway (since flying was out of the question) and picked up a dozen roses to suprise Lois with (she tended to put out when he showed his 'feminine side') when he got back to the apartment. However it was poor Clark who got the suprise upon discovering Bruce Wayne bending Lois over the kitchen table when he opend the door. Bruce propmptly towled off while Clark, slack-jawed with horror, watched speechless.

"How could you? After all we've meant to eachother!" Clark began to cry as Bruce excused himself from the now estranged couple. Clark was used to crying a lot now to show his sensitivity.

"What could you have possibly seen in a guy like that?!" He shrieked like a school girl.

"Well,.." Lois said indifferently, "Batman is a Superhero."

That was awesome, funny and spot on. Repped.

 

[Desdinova]

when does a man swallow his pride and make a serious effort to change his behavior FOR a woman?

Changing for a woman should happen BEFORE you even meet her. You should be making yourself a much more attractive person, working on your appearance, your career, your attitude, your morals, and your goals for the future. THAT is when and WHAT you should change for the woman.

However, when you meet a woman and she makes demands for you, that is when you don't change. You've already worked to make yourself much more attractive and appealing. If she doesn't like how much you've evolved to become the attractive man that you are, then she should be on her way and find that man whom she can control. That is the one thing that you should never change for a woman: your self-respect.

Also, men need to realise that women are NEVER 100% happy. They always need something to bytch and complain about. If you try to change yourself and make the woman 100% happy, you're only going to make yourself miserable and she's only going to become more demanding of your changes.

She fell in love with who you are, so why the fvck would you want to change that? If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[squirrels]

If you're changing just for a woman's sake, you are changing for the wrong reasons.

However, if interacting with a woman has identified something that YOU did not know about YOURSELF that YOU would like to change to make yourself a better person, that is a different case entirely. To not change at THAT point because you're "worried about losing power to a woman" is stubborn and bull-headed.

The key to being "Don Juan" is knowing the difference.

This thread reminds me of something Johnny Soporno said in his free Seductive Reasoning seminar...women meet a guy and spend all their time trying to "change" him into what they think they want, then a few years down the line they break up with him, exclaiming, "you're not the man I fell in love with!".