Chances of me setting up a second date in my situation? (Sorry long post)

[TempestNight]

Had a first date with a girl I have never met before a few days ago (met from e-harmony). Had coffee, and then dinner. Problem is the girl is literally sending me mixed signals, so I really need you guys' perspective to evaluate how the overall date went. Much appreciated!!

I will try to be concise:

What went well for the coffee:
+Had constant stream of conversations, we sat there and talked for about 3 hours just about everything
+I asked her some pretty engaging questions, she said she hasn't been asked to think philosophically and deep like this on a date for a long time
+She asked me back a lot of the questions I asked her, but I just avoid answering most of them to keep mystery on a first date, so at least she is interested in knowing about me
+Had some light kino when I offered to read her palms, and she offered to show me her body tattoos on her lower back
+Had variety, we listened to each other's music in our ipods
+I think I was mostly confident and relaxed throughout the date, I'm not afraid to smile and have constant eye contact with her, which she usually tries to avoid, she fidgets with her phone a lot, and when i brought it up she admits that she's kinda nervous


What didn't go well for the coffee:
+I somehow established myself as a very funny guy when i messaged her online, I think I failed to live up to that impression in real life
+When I asked her what she's looking for in a guy, she said she isn't looking for a relationship right now, but I think it may just be women-speak for saying: I'm not needy and desperate for a relationship
+There was some laughs, but nowhere near enough
+I think we have interests in each other but definitely no chemistry (yet)
+Near the end of the coffee when we were both getting hungry and decided to grab dinner, she started to text her friends, talked to one for a short while on the phone and asked me if it's ok her friend comes along, I said sure. But her friend decided not to come at the end.

What went well for the dinner:
+It wasn't too boring, as we always had something to talk about.
+She offered to talk about her past relationships and we got a bit sexual in conversations talked about our first time
+Her pork was kinda raw, but she ate half of it anyways but I can tell she wasn't very happy about it. When a waiter came near I flagged him over and complained about the pork to him. The restaurant came over and apologized. I probably got some points in her books for the action

What didn't go well for the dinner:
+Originally we planned to go to a bar to drink after the dinner, and she really wanted me to go, but I just smiled and said we will see. Later on when the dinner was almost over I went to the washroom and back, she was texting on her phone, and told me that she's actually feeling very tired and wanted to go home (which I still don't know if it was just an excuse, because she did mention earlier on in the dinner that she's getting tired)
+She offered to pay for the dinner and actually took money out, but I ended up paying instead when she needed to look for an extra 5 dollar bill her bag. This is ambiguous because some girls offer to pay to show you that's interested in you and isn't in it for the free meals, but some girls offer to pay because they don't want to owe you anything when they aren't planning a second date with you


So what happened after dinner was we walked to the subway station and rode home. On the way she offered to play a mind game with me, in which i have to solve a puzzle, and i get info to solve the puzzle by asking her yes and no questions. This went on and on and we were kinda having fun.

I was still thinking about what questions to ask when her stop came, I didn't even realize it and she said good night and I just said see ya. I didn't even give her a hug or anything. I felt so stupid and I have never done something like that since my AFC days. I should have at least walked her out of the station until she got on her bus, and ask her if she enjoyed the evening and maybe go for a kiss.

I felt like a retard, so I texted her after she left the train: Sorry, I don't kiss on first dates, usually not anyways lol.

She replied with a emoticon, and told me that I can keep asking her questions with texts to solve that puzzle .



So she's basically giving me complete mixed signals. She texted her friend and ask her to come to dinner, which means she wasn't interested in having dinner with just the two of us. She wanted me to go to bar with her, but then later changed her mind because she's too tired.

But then she also encouraged me to keep in touch with her via a game at the end of the date.


DJs, How would you rate her IL in me? What's the chance of me setting up a second date and how shall I proceed with it? Should I wait for her to ask for one or should I initiate?

Much appreciated!!

 

[Mantis Toboggan]

Well, there are 2 ways you can find out about whether or not you'll get a 2nd date.

1- you could write a 12 page essay about the Pros and Cons of each segment of your date. You can analyze each and every conversation you had, her reaction to you, and her posture. Then, with the help of strangers on sosuave.com, you can formulate a mathematical hypothesis about the likelihood of her accepting a 2nd date.

2- you could just ask her out again.


Yeah, you did some corny sh1t, like asking her "What are you looking for in a guy"...I never say that. In fact, I thought that's something people only say in bad movies. But either way, the only way to find out if she wants to see you is to invite her. Otherwise, it's stupid to think about it.

 

[TempestNight]

Well, there are 2 ways you can find out about whether or not you'll get a 2nd date.

1- you could write a 12 page essay about the Pros and Cons of each segment of your date. You can analyze each and every conversation you had, her reaction to you, and her posture. Then, with the help of strangers on sosuave.com, you can formulate a mathematical hypothesis about the likelihood of her accepting a 2nd date.

2- you could just ask her out again.


Yeah, you did some corny sh1t, like asking her "What are you looking for in a guy"...I never say that. In fact, I thought that's something people only say in bad movies. But either way, the only way to find out if she wants to see you is to invite her. Otherwise, it's stupid to think about it.

Yes, I can do that.

But the reason why I asked is because if the girl has high IL, it's always better for her to initiate the second date.

Problem is I can't evaluate what her IL is.


P.S. Asking a girl what she wants in a guy actually makes for very fun convo. The trick to make it not "corny" is to tease her about her requirements. And when she asks you back, make ridiculous demands like "former Victoria's secret models", "Michelin 3 star chef", "Harvard graduate", "speaks 5 languages fluently", etc. It's something I ask on every new date and it works very well.

 

[Pimp-sicle]

But the reason why I asked is because if the girl has high IL, it's always better for her to initiate the second date.

Asking a girl what she's looking for in a guy has NOTHING to do with whether she has high interest and initiates the 2nd date. Girls are very covert and subtle in showing their interest. In other words they will give you opportunities as a man to lead and if you do great, if you don't you miss out.

Problem is I can't evaluate what her IL is.

When your confused about a girl's interest level or you think she's giving you mixed signals its usually because she's NOT interested. From everything you wrote, it seems like the girl was open to being into you in the beginning, but then she got bored (hence why she suddenly got "tired"). Your in the friend zone bro, lack of excitement, no sexual stimulation and a lack of chemistry equals buddy status.

P.S. Asking a girl what she wants in a guy actually makes for very fun convo. The trick to make it not "corny" is to tease her about her requirements.

Wrong. Asking a girl what she looks for in a guy comes off as supplicating and approval seeking. The exact opposite of what you want to convey. Now once a girl knows you, see's that girls want you, she might be attracted to you herself and you ask her this question, yeah it could be different, but that is because attraction was already established.

In your situation on the first date, with no attraction = bad move.

And when she asks you back, make ridiculous demands like "former Victoria's secret models", "Michelin 3 star chef", "Harvard graduate", "speaks 5 languages fluently", etc. It's something I ask on every new date and it works very well.

Definition of insanity right here; doing the same $hit over and over thinking it will get you better results.






PIMP

 

[sighsigh]

Mantis is correct on what to do.

But I'll offer you my opinion: Her IL is pretty damn low. Because texting her friends to come join her is pretty damn bad. You not being able to determine what her IL is also means that it is probably low, as Pimpsicle said.

Also, I think you made some textbook AFC mistakes.

When I asked her what she's looking for in a guy

As Mantis mentioned, this makes you look needy.

When a waiter came near I flagged him over and complained about the pork to him.

Definitely not good. Don't complain about stuff to the waiter. That just makes you look like a whiny b*tch. I know that when something goes wrong on a date that's out of your control (food was bad, a car splashed her clothes, etc.), you feel like it's going to reflect badly on you. But the truth is that it won't reflect as badly as you think it will and the only thing you can really do is laugh it off and make up for it in other ways... don't try to 'fix' it.

I asked her some pretty engaging questions, she said she hasn't been asked to think philosophically and deep like this on a date for a long time.

I assume you were talking about your views on why neutrinos can travel faster than light, or something? That's really bad conversation for a date. Now, it may show her that you're intellectual, and that's fine if you keep the conversation about it short. But lengthy conversations about this stuff are bad because they don't incite any good feelings in your date. She is a date, after all; not your university professor.

And the biggest AFC mistake of all: DON'T MAKE THE FIRST DATE A DINNER DATE. You can decide if your first date should be informal or formal. If informal, then it is just a quick meeting a a coffee shop. I think it's good for the first date to be informal, just so you can quickly get to know each other. But your first FORMAL (nice clothes, at night, etc.) date should ALWAYS be an ACTION date. Pool, bowling, mini-golf... not her sitting across from you 'flapping her gums' (as Pook would say)... there she gets bored, you lose your mystery, there's pressure to maintain conversation, etc. etc.... it's a lose-lose situation for everyone.

 

[Iceberg]

Yes, I can do that.

But the reason why I asked is because if the girl has high IL, it's always better for her to initiate the second date.

Who told you that?

You're the man. You're the one who has to grab your balls and take a risk.

Let's say, hypothetically, that she IS into you. What if she's just as nervous as you are. What if she's sitting around wondering if you are going to call.

You expect a woman to overcome a fear so that you don't have to overcome it yourself?

Problem is I can't evaluate what her IL is.

What is YOUR IL? If you like her enough, then text/call about a second date. If she says yes, then her IL is where you want it to be. If she says no, then it isn't.

Why sit around wondering when you can find the answer with one phone call? The answer is in your pocket (or wherever you keep your cell phone), and you're on here typing the plus and minus of every part of one date with a girl.

You wanna know the answer? Find out. I'm not trying to break your balls, man. But come on....you wanna know if she's up for Date#2? Ask her for it.

 

[Mantis Toboggan]

Yes, I can do that.

Problem is I can't evaluate what her IL is.

That's why you ask her out. To evaluate what her IL is.

P.S. Asking a girl what she wants in a guy actually makes for very fun convo. The trick to make it not "corny" is to tease her about her requirements. And when she asks you back, make ridiculous demands like "former Victoria's secret models", "Michelin 3 star chef", "Harvard graduate", "speaks 5 languages fluently", etc. It's something I ask on every new date and it works very well.

If you say so, my friend. Maybe I'm just not good at telling corny jokes.

I just think that questions like that scream, "I'm looking for a serious relationship."....when a date is supposed to be more about fun. Let her worry about what you're looking for.

It just sounds like you did a lot of cliche first date stuff. Like Romantic Comedy sh1t.

Taking a random girl out to dinner. Asking her about what she's looking for in a man. Asking her deep philosophical questions. Trying to show your "dominance" by making a complaint to the waiter.

It all sounds like a guy TRYING, instead of a guy who's just out to have a few drinks and a laugh.

But like everyone says...you won't know what her IL is until you ask for a 2nd date.

 

[Sofomore]

You're afraid of rejection, that's why you are analyzing the sh!t out of the date. You're nervous that maybe she doesn't actually like you. Only way to find out is to ask her out again. If she says yes, awesome she is interested. Do something more fun. If she says no, or comes up with an excuse without counter-offering, cut your losses and move on. It really is this simple.

 

[TempestNight]

But I'll offer you my opinion: Her IL is pretty damn low. Because texting her friends to come join her is pretty damn bad. You not being able to determine what her IL is also means that it is probably low, as Pimpsicle said.

Yea it is, I think im pretty much in friendzone with her.

Definitely not good. Don't complain about stuff to the waiter. That just makes you look like a whiny b*tch. I know that when something goes wrong on a date that's out of your control (food was bad, a car splashed her clothes, etc.), you feel like it's going to reflect badly on you. But the truth is that it won't reflect as badly as you think it will and the only thing you can really do is laugh it off and make up for it in other ways... don't try to 'fix' it.

I think complain may be too strong a word. What I did was I flag a waiter to come over, showed him the food and I said: The pork is kinda raw and it's still bloody.

He immediately apologizes repeatedly and ask us if we want another one on the house, I smiled and looked at her, she smiled back and just shook her head, so I said to the waiter no.

Will this still make me a whiny *****?

I assume you were talking about your views on why neutrinos can travel faster than light, or something? That's really bad conversation for a date. Now, it may show her that you're intellectual, and that's fine if you keep the conversation about it short. But lengthy conversations about this stuff are bad because they don't incite any good feelings in your date. She is a date, after all; not your university professor.

HAHAH no I'm not that ignorant.

I asked her questions like do you believe in the destiny, fate, soulmates, the afterlife, and if you can pick between being creative or knowledgeable, which one would it be, etc.

And the biggest AFC mistake of all: DON'T MAKE THE FIRST DATE A DINNER DATE. You can decide if your first date should be informal or formal. If informal, then it is just a quick meeting a a coffee shop. I think it's good for the first date to be informal, just so you can quickly get to know each other. But your first FORMAL (nice clothes, at night, etc.) date should ALWAYS be an ACTION date. Pool, bowling, mini-golf... not her sitting across from you 'flapping her gums' (as Pook would say)... there she gets bored, you lose your mystery, there's pressure to maintain conversation, etc. etc.... it's a lose-lose situation for everyone.

You are probably right about not making it into dinner though.

 

[runner83]

Sorry mate, but as soon as I read this:

Had a first date with a girl I have never met before a few days ago (met from e-harmony). Had coffee, and then dinner.

I knew you have no chance.

The rest of the post only confirmed it.

Wtf is it with always meeting a chick for coffee or fvckin' dinner? (especially when you are catching the subway). E-harmony is also totally fvcked up from what I've heard.

For fvck's sake, your default option should be to meet up for a few drinks- a lot less casual, much better opportunity for teasing and touching, and the alcohol will get her and you both relaxed.

Alcohol = S!x
Food = Sleep

Remember that.

 

[TempestNight]

Sorry mate, but as soon as I read this:



I knew you have no chance.

The rest of the post only confirmed it.

Wtf is it with always meeting a chick for coffee or fvckin' dinner? (especially when you are catching the subway). E-harmony is also totally fvcked up from what I've heard.

For fvck's sake, your default option should be to meet up for a few drinks- a lot less casual, much better opportunity for teasing and touching, and the alcohol will get her and you both relaxed.

Alcohol = S!x
Food = Sleep

Remember that.

Yea I actually wanted to go for drinks, but she wanted it earlier in the afternoon around 2-4, can't exactly go for drinks that time of the day.

Any tips to get around that?

 

[runner83]

Yea I actually wanted to go for drinks, but she wanted it earlier in the afternoon around 2-4, can't exactly go for drinks that time of the day.

Any tips to get around that?

Simply put, you play the game by your rules, not hers.

You make yourself unavailable for earlier, and if she won't make herself available for later as per your proposal, best just to hold off, be busy and try again in a bit.

 

[TempestNight]

Simply put, you play the game by your rules, not hers.

You make yourself unavailable for earlier, and if she won't make herself available for later as per your proposal, best just to hold off, be busy and try again in a bit.

Guess I kinda shot myself in the foot. She originally wanted to go for a drink at Thurs night, but I couldn't go because I had martial arts training and it isn't over until 10pm, and she doesn't want to bus home 12 am at night.