Central Nervous System?
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WORKEROUTER
Master Don Juan
Training to failure forces your body to grow out of its comfort zone.
Shiftkey
Master Don Juan
I agree with this statement. This is part of why you should only train each muscle once a week (divided into 3 sessions). Training too often causes injury.
Training to failure is doing reps until you cannot do anymore.
Training to failure is doing reps until you cannot do anymore.
wheelin&dealin
Master Don Juan
By negative effect, they mean it's taxing on the CNS. This isn't a bad thing you just have to understand more about periodization to compensate for this. It does take the CNS atleast 48 hours to recover from a high intensity workout.
You can tax your CNS through sprinting, plyos, lifting heavy or by increasing the total volume of lifts. You should be constantly monitoring yourself to make sure that you aren't in an overtrained state of CNS exhaustion.
al77
Master Don Juan
Re: Re: Central Nervous System?
First one is when my muscles feel very burned and next rep is going to be almost impossible to accomplish (maybe like 1/2 of a rep.)
Second one is when I try to do this last rep anyway, even if I feel I cannot do it in a proper form. This tends to stress not so much the muscles but rather CNS: I feel the pressure in my whole body: the head, arms, legs... After I am done with this last rep I feel that would have been better if I didn't do it.
Very taxing on CNS and not sure how beneficial for the muscles.
It was an interesting question. I can distinguish two situation "to failure".
First one is when my muscles feel very burned and next rep is going to be almost impossible to accomplish (maybe like 1/2 of a rep.)
Second one is when I try to do this last rep anyway, even if I feel I cannot do it in a proper form. This tends to stress not so much the muscles but rather CNS: I feel the pressure in my whole body: the head, arms, legs... After I am done with this last rep I feel that would have been better if I didn't do it.
Very taxing on CNS and not sure how beneficial for the muscles.
Shiftkey
Master Don Juan
If you're going to do that last rep, have a spotter. If you don't have a spotter, use the safety bars (for bench or squat) or just drop the weight. The idea is to go to failure, not to force past failure.
WORKEROUTER
Master Don Juan
That doesn't make sense.
Where are you all getting this info from of "taxing the CNS". The CNS only consists of the brain and the spinal cord, so Im not sure how working out would 'tax' this. I've seen info about taxing ones CNS in relation to MMA stuff and extreme endurance stuff where the body is almost tricked to keep going, but I really doubt anyone with a normal workout routine would ever reach this with beginner-medium lifting.
I don't think you will gain nearly as much muscle if you get every rep in every set, you should be doing such a weight that you can't get the last rep,if thats what you mean.
And before you resume working out that particular muscle, or muscle in the group, you should not be sore at all (from injury or from DOMS). For me this usually takes 3 days or so, but for legs and really intense workouts can last 6 days.
I don't think you will gain nearly as much muscle if you get every rep in every set, you should be doing such a weight that you can't get the last rep,if thats what you mean.
And before you resume working out that particular muscle, or muscle in the group, you should not be sore at all (from injury or from DOMS). For me this usually takes 3 days or so, but for legs and really intense workouts can last 6 days.
Warboss Alex
Master Don Juan
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CNS be damned, your workset starts when you think you've failed. 
And hell, I don't think anyone who rest-pauses or dropsets (both of which include training beyond failure) isn't growing ..
And hell, I don't think anyone who rest-pauses or dropsets (both of which include training beyond failure) isn't growing ..
My old wingman was an AWESOME PT. Seriously top class.
Anyway I'm not an expert but from what he's said that last rep is REALLY important.
The strain on the CNS I think is probibly only if you feel you're failing while you're doing it. Imagine your muscles growing and I reckon it'll be all good.
Rules against overtraining are to allow your muscles to recover fully before the next training session. Believe it or not when you force the nerves innervating your muscles to behave like nerves of another fibre type (called weight training) you cause slight damage which repairs itself and results in changing of the type of some fibers. If you keep training you prevent this process from completing. Hence overtraining.
To the guy who's talking about feeling it all over when using bad form: I may be wrong but I suspect that's got very little to do with your CNS and more with your ANS (Autonomic Nervous System) causing changes in blood pressure heart rate etc.
Anyway I think this statement is probibly invalid. Though folks should remember the psychological element of training is extremely important too.
I could well be wrong of course this is a mixture of knowledge I know for a fact and remembered advice of the best PT I've ever met.
Well there's my 2 cents.
Anyway I'm not an expert but from what he's said that last rep is REALLY important.
The strain on the CNS I think is probibly only if you feel you're failing while you're doing it. Imagine your muscles growing and I reckon it'll be all good.
Rules against overtraining are to allow your muscles to recover fully before the next training session. Believe it or not when you force the nerves innervating your muscles to behave like nerves of another fibre type (called weight training) you cause slight damage which repairs itself and results in changing of the type of some fibers. If you keep training you prevent this process from completing. Hence overtraining.
To the guy who's talking about feeling it all over when using bad form: I may be wrong but I suspect that's got very little to do with your CNS and more with your ANS (Autonomic Nervous System) causing changes in blood pressure heart rate etc.
Anyway I think this statement is probibly invalid. Though folks should remember the psychological element of training is extremely important too.
I could well be wrong of course
this is a mixture of knowledge I know for a fact and remembered advice of the best PT I've ever met.Well there's my 2 cents.
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RE
You're talking -stress- vs. -hypertrophy-.
Stress on the CNS, under Powerlifting, trains you to lift more weight at a lighter mass.
Hypertrophy is the aim of maximum muscle growth at minimal weight within a specified range.
Gains in strength, in either case, will equal muscle growth, however PL-er's lift through a lighter rep scheme than hypertrophy oriented builders.
Taxing the CNS is hurt through excessive lifting. When you're body gets no rest during the week, and you endure 2 hour workouts. CNS stress can also occur with extreme life stress, with little sleep, and poor diet. Make no mistake, CNS failure ore stress does not occur in just 1 vein.
---------------------------
Failure in lifting occurs when you can no longer lift MORE weight under a given rep scheme. Each person here will go to a different goal, and bb-ers are very dogmatic.
Alot of guys shoot for 8 or 10, sometimes 12. You want to lift heavy, but not so heavy you can't also do sufficient reps to be considered work. Some guys with good genetics could be 12, some could be 8. I'd say 8 as the very *best* since it's enough to work toward, but not so many reps that you can't go heavy. Play with it.
After you bang 8, don't wait 1 or 2 minutes like alot of program prescribe; you don't need to. The muscles recuperate temporarily very quickly, in 20 seconds or so, so that you can bang out more reps. Waiting only lengthens the workout and can thrust you into catabolism since you'll eventually go over the 1 hr limit into buring MORE protein than desirable.
8 reps
rest-pause
as many as you can reps
rest-pause
as many as you can reps
rest-pause
(sometimes I do 1 more, and get out like 1-2 reps)
Next week, it should be cake to add more weight by 5-10 pounds. If I can't do 8, i get 6- or 7.
It sounds simple and it is, and because it is, you stick with it. And you enjoy it, because your main goal is to lift more, and that's fun.
A-Unit
You're talking -stress- vs. -hypertrophy-.
Stress on the CNS, under Powerlifting, trains you to lift more weight at a lighter mass.
Hypertrophy is the aim of maximum muscle growth at minimal weight within a specified range.
Gains in strength, in either case, will equal muscle growth, however PL-er's lift through a lighter rep scheme than hypertrophy oriented builders.
Taxing the CNS is hurt through excessive lifting. When you're body gets no rest during the week, and you endure 2 hour workouts. CNS stress can also occur with extreme life stress, with little sleep, and poor diet. Make no mistake, CNS failure ore stress does not occur in just 1 vein.
---------------------------
Failure in lifting occurs when you can no longer lift MORE weight under a given rep scheme. Each person here will go to a different goal, and bb-ers are very dogmatic.
Alot of guys shoot for 8 or 10, sometimes 12. You want to lift heavy, but not so heavy you can't also do sufficient reps to be considered work. Some guys with good genetics could be 12, some could be 8. I'd say 8 as the very *best* since it's enough to work toward, but not so many reps that you can't go heavy. Play with it.
After you bang 8, don't wait 1 or 2 minutes like alot of program prescribe; you don't need to. The muscles recuperate temporarily very quickly, in 20 seconds or so, so that you can bang out more reps. Waiting only lengthens the workout and can thrust you into catabolism since you'll eventually go over the 1 hr limit into buring MORE protein than desirable.
8 reps
rest-pause
as many as you can reps
rest-pause
as many as you can reps
rest-pause
(sometimes I do 1 more, and get out like 1-2 reps)
Next week, it should be cake to add more weight by 5-10 pounds. If I can't do 8, i get 6- or 7.
It sounds simple and it is, and because it is, you stick with it. And you enjoy it, because your main goal is to lift more, and that's fun.
A-Unit
RaWBLooD
Master Don Juan
drop sets are useless.Originally posted by Warboss Alex
CNS be damned, your workset starts when you think you've failed.
And hell, I don't think anyone who rest-pauses or dropsets (both of which include training beyond failure) isn't growing ..
Warboss Alex
Master Don Juan
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No. CNS and soreness aren't the same thing - and the whole CNS question is overanalysing IMO, if you feel run down and half-dead all the time then you're being taxed too much and need a break, otherwise just don't worry.
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wheelin&dealin
Master Don Juan
Don't worry about your CNS if you are a beginner to intermediate lifter. You won't be able to put a dent in it anyways, you'll mostly be suffering from muscular fatigue. Bodybuilding methods (8-12 reps) won't be able to tax your CNS much anyways. It gets more complex when you get in the 1-3 rep range.