Can you be a nice guy and still get it?

[Zirko]

Ok, well, I've started drawing the picture but I won't give it to her unless something happens, I think that's fair.

@Igetit!

Yeah, I know, I know. I've beat myself already for that. That's ok, you can be frank, I can handle it. I don't mind heat on the internet.

I don't remember but when she was teaching me she was giving some IOI and she ended up inviting me in her room and I could've gone all the way if I had wanted to (I think).

But I'll agree it was pretty pathetic and I won't do it again.

You got to start somewhere however and I expect to be clumsy at first.

But I am doing my best to change. I'm doing everything I can to turn things around.

 

[boomerick]

Almost everyone on this board started out as a fail. Right now you have everything backwards. You are not successful and you don't feel good about the way things are going. Stop what you are doing. Go directly to the DJ bible. Read, read,read, and then read some more. Everything you need is there and it's free. Don't post. Don't interact with women. You need reprogramming. It's not your fault. Nobody told you. But right now you have a chance to completely turn things around. READ THE BIBLE!!!

 

[Diaforetikos]

From your messages, it sounds like she's into you. Stop being a nice guy and become more agressive.

I know it would probably be a little out of character for you so read what I.A.F.Y.B. suggested. It will get you in the mindframe of becoming a man of action with no regrets.

I bet, if you wanted to, you could kiss her the next time you guys are together. You just have to be ballsy and confident.

Not much advice, I know. But these little things will make all the difference.

 

[WaterTiger]

You can be nice..just don't be one of THOSE guys.

"Do you like me? I'll draw you pretty pictures if you like me!"
"Is it okay if I ask you out?"
"Do you want to go skiing with me? I'll pay for everything if you do!"
"I don't want to shock you, but is it all right if I kiss you?"

Instead say:

"Draw you a picture? I don't know, only really SPECIAL poeple get my artwork. You'll have to earn it!"

"I'm taking you out, be ready Friday at 6:30pm!"

"We're going skiing on Saturday, I'll pick you up at noon."

Don't SAY anything! JUST FREAKING KISS HER!!!!
"I had to see if your lips tasted as good as they looked!"


Being nice doesn't mean you have to operate under 18th century Victorian standards! Be bold, agressive, and LEAD the relationship! You're the boss! Act like it!

 

[Igetit!]

Ok, well, I've started drawing the picture but I won't give it to her unless something happens, I think that's fair.

NO,it's NOT FAIR. Don't give it to her AT ALL.


Like I said before,you're BIGGEST HURDLE is your OWN MIND.


Even RIGHT NOW as you're a part of this forum getting help for your situation,it's working AGAINST you,but you don't see it.


DO NOT give her that picture.


If she were you're girlfriend,then fine,there would already be some sort of commitment involved,but NOT some girl you're still trying to date.




You're like someone who has a destination in mind,but started off in the wrong direction.




You went a thousand miles in the wrong direction before you figured out that something was wrong,but at least you're aware of your mistake now.




That's good news and bad news.




The good news is you've figured out there was a problem,and you're now headed in the RIGHT direction.



The bad news is that you have to travel a thousand miles just to START at the beginning.




That's what you're doing now.


You're 29 years old. You have 29 years worth of wrong information ingrained in your mind,so it's natural that you're going to be resistant to what we say.



You'll probably fight us tooth and nail over our suggestions,but your results will bear witness to what we tell you.




Take Playstowin's suggestion for example.


When he said to mention drawing her naked,I bet you thought he was nuts,didn't you?




But believe me,you'd be better off saying something like that to her,than being an asexual "nice guy".


You still seem to have that "bartering" system in your mind,thinking if you do "X" for a girl,then she'll be sexually attracted to you in exchange.




What are you expecting to happen if you give this girl this picture you drew?



You think she'll be attracted to you? Want to sleep with you?



Go ahead and give it to her. I can predict what her reaction will be.



She'll be surprised,might give you a hug or a kiss on the cheek,say thank you,she may do some type of "nice" gesture not because she's nice,but out of debt,then that'll be the end of it.




Then you'll sit there all shocked and dumbfounded that she didn't want anything sexually to do with you.





Like I said,you're on the right path joining up here,but you'll probably still have to go out and get burned a few more times,reject what we tell you and fall on your face a little while longer before you REALLY start to get it.

 

[Zirko]

Hey Igetit,

You'll probably fight us tooth and nail over our suggestions,but your results will bear witness to what we tell you.

That's not fair though (honestly). I think I'm really open to ideas.

(would you mind not using so many paragraphs, makes your text hard to follow which is a shame because you write some really interesting stuff).

Just came back from our meeting.

Went pretty well.

I cracked jokes the whole time (I'm witty when I'm relaxed) and she laughed most of the time. We started fighting each other outside. She was hitting me when I was teasing her. When I drove her back home she made me take a wrong direction and I said: ''Well, now you owe me something for your mistakes'' and she was fine with it.

Got to her place, I asked if I could use her washroom.

her:

''yeah, you can come in my room and I'll show you some pictures''

I get there, I showed her my drawings on the net and my videos to learn Japanese. She often laid against me which is surprising as she's very traditional and *proper*. Then I said it's getting late and I have to go. She said: send me an email once you get home I want to make sure you're safe and I said: ''Yeah, yeah mom.'' And I did send her one.

On my way to her place I messed around in the parking lot (you know, braking in the snow and stuff, I like to do that). She said: ''Oh no, don't do that! Promise me you won't do this anymore.''

I think I could have went for the kill right there but I didn't. I know for damn sure she would expect a relationship afterwards.

Anyways, I think I'm learning fast. I haven't given her any pictures.

PS: Just got an email back: ''I think your last girlfriend must have been very happy with you.''

^__^'

 

[Pierce]

Are u a virgin? just wondering

and you dont have her phone number? Why are you sending her emails

 

[bukowski_merit]

it's late... im tired... my legs are tired from dancing... im about to pass out... but...

Hey Igetit,
(would you mind not using so many paragraphs, makes your text hard to follow which is a shame because you write some really interesting stuff).

how are you going to say that and then write in almost the exact same style? the only difference being he puts a little more


space between his paragraphs....

Not hard to read at all.

PS: Just got an email back: ''I think your last girlfriend must have been very happy with you.''

^__^'

You're doing ok so far (but you need to work on not doing what she asks of you). And you REALLY need to make your move NOW before she starts viewing you as a brother instead of a lover. Conservative? Traditional? Proper? Doesn't matter here... She's giving you massive IOIs... Go for it... Please! Any more delaying and you are risking her attraction going numb.

I would give more insight... but that would require i keep my eyes open for longer.

 

[zekko]

Have you even kissed her yet? It's obvious she is attracted to you and is sending you IOIs. That means the clock is now running for you to make some sort of move physically, or she is going to lose interest in you. She wants you now, but she isn't going to wait forever. You are a man, and a man will have a sexual interest in her. Don't disappoint her, or she'll find someone else to give her what she wants.

 

[Zirko]

Are u a virgin? just wondering

and you dont have her phone number? Why are you sending her emails

I have her phone number. It seemed easier to send her emails at first. Calling her made me feel uncomfortable.

I had a good time last time we talked together though (on the phone I mean).

She asked for my phone number though and I gave it to her.

That's one AFC side I'm working on, not relying on emails so much and going straight for the phone instead.

Nah, I'm not a virgin, far from it. Were you curious about that because I didn't nail her right here and then? It seemed too soon (and it was).

how are you going to say that and then write in almost the exact same style? the only difference being he puts a little more


space between his paragraphs....

Not hard to read at all.

Yeah, I didn't express myself properly, I meant the spacing between the paragraphs. It does make it harder to follow (to me). Thanks for pointing out my writing style though, I'll use less paragraphs from now on.

You're doing ok so far (but you need to work on not doing what she asks of you). And you REALLY need to make your move NOW before she starts viewing you as a brother instead of a lover. Conservative? Traditional? Proper? Doesn't matter here... She's giving you massive IOIs... Go for it... Please! Any more delaying and you are risking her attraction going numb.

Here's the thing:

This was the third time or fourth time I spent time with her so I'm still getting to know her better.

I thought it was too early to make a move. Besides, the owner of her house was in the room next door so it was basically impossible or incredibly rude/inappropriate to the owner.

I also think she's probably a virgin so it's always more delicate in this case. I know it sounds like I'm giving myself excuses to delay the whole thing.

Maybe I'm being a complete AFC here but I don't want to hurt her feelings (that's the nice guy thing I told you about). I have 0 tolerance to guilt and if I do, I'll beat myself up for weeks and I'll feel crappy about myself. I know a lot of people couldn't care less about that kind of thing but I care. I think it's important to do the right thing. In this case, it means not leading her on by having sex with her to make her believe I want a relationship.

Is there any way I could have sex with her in a way which is open and honest and not misleading? I know, some of you'll think it's AFC and maybe it is but I'm not willing to sacrifice my self-respect (which took me years to build) for a vagina.

Let me know what you think about my rationale and how you think if you think differently, again, I'm open to all and any opinions.

But anyway, thanks for the reply bukowski, I appreciate it considering that you were knackered.

Have you even kissed her yet? It's obvious she is attracted to you and is sending you IOIs. That means the clock is now running for you to make some sort of move physically, or she is going to lose interest in you. She wants you now, but she isn't going to wait forever. You are a man, and a man will have a sexual interest in her. Don't disappoint her, or she'll find someone else to give her what she wants.

Ok, I understand that and I'll take your word for it. I think you're right and I agree with it. I can see how not acting would really hurt my chances.

I would honestly prefer to know her better before shoving my penis in her vagina however. I know it sounds AFC but it's the truth.

 

[bukowski_merit]

I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't talking about you having sex with her. I was talking about kissing, along with some type of romantic touching (you don't have to put your hands down her pants. you want nice guy? just stroke her face gently with the tips of your fingers; making sure you brush the back of her ears and end with you fingers going down her neck.)

I also think you're BSing when you say you want to get to know this girl. That's a lame excuse for your lack of action. I'm not saying you don't believe it; im just saying you wouldn't be making so many thread about not blowing it this time, and dedicating all this energy to defending your stance with her - if you weren't looking for more advice than "get to know her first". If you wanted to "get to know her first" why the fvck are you on this board asking for advice??? And why does your title say "and still get it" isn't the "it" the "vagina" you refer to? I'm NOT against getting to know a woman. But using that as an excuse for your lack of any kind of romantic interaction - is backwards justification. You keep saying "maybe that's AFC" and then using "but...." a lot! BUT NOTHING! It is AFC! And if you're willing to pretty much say you know it's AFC - why exactly are you not changing it? It has obviously hurt your chances in the past and i PROMISE you that if you continue to dance around making a move - it will hurt your chances here as well. GUARANTEED!

Now you're doing 2 things wrong that i already pointed out; but let me go into it a little more:

1) You're listening to her request and doing as she says.... I guess this is part of what you meant about being a nice guy? You need to man up and stop that! Maybe she's so sexually inexperienced that she'll let that stuff slide for now (an experienced woman would already be walking all over you). But - if you started a relationship with that woman and let her have that kind of control - you'd be unhappy within months.... .... You're also falling deeper and deeper into "awww this guy is so nice/cute" territory. You do not want to be there! That is friendzone (or submissive YOU) city. You don't have to be an @ss; or a horn dog; or a misogynist! You CAN have nice guy elements. I do. But you MUST find a balance. If you don't know if you want to kiss this woman after 3 dates - then there's something wrong with you that goes beyond anything we can help with. If you do know that you want to kiss her - then for need to stop viewing that as something bad. There's nothing bad about it. It's 100% natural, and at this point in your guys interaction - she SHOULD kiss you back happily. And im sure that if she kissed you right now you'd kiss her back. no? And if while kissing, she started unbuttoning your pants and playing with you - im pretty sure you wouldn't stop her would you????? And would any of this have anything to do with niceness???? Nope, it's natural human activity. And, your hang-ups are not natural; that are learned human rules/societal pressure on you to not be ALPHA.


2) You're moving way too slow.... This woman in her head - is begging you to make a move. She's wondering why you are not. And every moment that you do not make a move is a moment that she is closer to changing how she sees you. She's already giving you massive IOIs, but she's also already starting to show signs of seeing you as a nice guy/afc. Telling you that your last girlfriend must have been very happy with you can definitely be taken as a compliment. BUT, it's something i'd want to hear after she kissed me, or fvcked me. Not after i had niced her to death. She might as well have said, "Your last girlfriend must have been very happy with you... because, you're such a nice guy"... It seems to me that she's making more moves than you! She put her head on you? Tilt her head back and BAM - you're both doing what you want.

This was the third time or fourth time I spent time with her so I'm still getting to know her better.

excuse 1 (and a lie you're telling yourself and us)

I thought it was too early to make a move.

Excuse 2 (and if 3-4 dates in is too early to make ANY kind of move - it'd hate to hear when you think it's ok to make the ultimate move (and i'm not talking marriage))

Besides, the owner of her house was in the room next door so it was basically impossible or incredibly rude/inappropriate to the owner.

Excuse 3. (if he was physically in your guys room - then i could see your point.)

I also think she's probably a virgin so it's always more delicate in this case.

Excuse 4. (and this should not stop you from escalating)

I know it sounds like I'm giving myself excuses to delay the whole thing.

You are.

Maybe I'm being a complete AFC here but I don't want to hurt her feelings

there's no "maybe" to it.

I'll beat myself up for weeks and I'll feel crappy about myself.

Excuse 5. (your post here is turning into one of the biggest "why im being an afc" justification posts that i've seen in a long time. There is NO reason you should feel crappy about yourself if you make a move on a woman that you're not sure you want to MARRY. And yes - that is the way you're treating this and it's laughable.)

I think it's important to do the right thing.

Excuse 6.

it means not leading her on by having sex with her to make her believe I want a relationship.

Excuse 7.

Is there any way I could have sex with her in a way which is open and honest and not misleading?

Why in the world - if this is what you want - are you acting like you don't??? Why are you acting like your hesitation is from wanting to "get to know her" if your real concern is not misleading her???? Most women who are healthy and normal - do not view sexual interaction as a guaranteed diamond engagement ring in the future. I'm willing to bed that in all of this - you have a MUCH higher chance of being the one hurting, not her!

I'm not willing to sacrifice my self-respect (which took me years to build)

Excuse 900. What do you respect about yourself so much? Your niceness? Your AFCisms? Your belief system which has been put there by feminist dykes?

The other day on new years eve - i saw a man at dinner with his wife. They were wearing matching outfits. Sooooo cute and adorable. She was on her phone texting (probably me) the whole time, and he picked up his phone once to do something with it and she barked at him "put that away, you don't have important business." and he shot a look at her like he wanted to kill her, but what does he do? he puts his phone away and sits there like a little child for the next 20 minutes.... i went in the bathroom and vomited for him. I guarentee you that that man was nice, let her make all the first moves, and never had a backbone to say no to any request she made. And im sure somewhere along the line he told himself he is displaying chivalry by being so d@mn timid!

You can accidentally get some women with your niceness.
You can accidentally get a wife with your niceness.
And then.... you can be that red sweater wearing Beta provider with your niceness.

 

[Pierce]

Instincts should have told you to try somthing there. It doesn't have to be sex but you could have definately tryed to make out with her or something.

 

[Zirko]

@bukowski:

Sheesh man, that's an earful!

Alright, alright, I get your point. Thanks for being frank.

She invited me over to eat something at her place tonight. I was thinking of not going but I'll go.

I'll also pull a move (by the way I was touching her in her room like her arms and stuff).

You might right about the girlfriend thing but I don't think it was said in that way.

Let you know how it went.

 

[bukowski_merit]

good. glad it got through to you and you now understand what i was trying to say.

the only thing i can say about the move is... let it happen... her putting her head on you last time was a perfect time... wait for something like that again... and remember how great a first kiss feels... and just keep thinking about that all night.... that should be enough to overcome any hangups you have.... start thinking about it now in fact (don't think about how you're going to do it - just keep thinking about how great if FEELS)....

and remember that if for some reason she rejects it (and she shouldn't if you've been accurate) - she would have done the same 10 dates from now. So, you've successfully wasted a lot less time with her.

enjoy

 

[Ease]

I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't talking about you having sex with her. I was talking about kissing, along with some type of romantic touching (you don't have to put your hands down her pants. you want nice guy? just stroke her face gently with the tips of your fingers; making sure you brush the back of her ears and end with you fingers going down her neck.)

I also think you're BSing when you say you want to get to know this girl. That's a lame excuse for your lack of action. I'm not saying you don't believe it; im just saying you wouldn't be making so many thread about not blowing it this time, and dedicating all this energy to defending your stance with her - if you weren't looking for more advice than "get to know her first". If you wanted to "get to know her first" why the fvck are you on this board asking for advice??? And why does your title say "and still get it" isn't the "it" the "vagina" you refer to? I'm NOT against getting to know a woman. But using that as an excuse for your lack of any kind of romantic interaction - is backwards justification. You keep saying "maybe that's AFC" and then using "but...." a lot! BUT NOTHING! It is AFC! And if you're willing to pretty much say you know it's AFC - why exactly are you not changing it? It has obviously hurt your chances in the past and i PROMISE you that if you continue to dance around making a move - it will hurt your chances here as well. GUARANTEED!

Now you're doing 2 things wrong that i already pointed out; but let me go into it a little more:

1) You're listening to her request and doing as she says.... I guess this is part of what you meant about being a nice guy? You need to man up and stop that! Maybe she's so sexually inexperienced that she'll let that stuff slide for now (an experienced woman would already be walking all over you). But - if you started a relationship with that woman and let her have that kind of control - you'd be unhappy within months.... .... You're also falling deeper and deeper into "awww this guy is so nice/cute" territory. You do not want to be there! That is friendzone (or submissive YOU) city. You don't have to be an @ss; or a horn dog; or a misogynist! You CAN have nice guy elements. I do. But you MUST find a balance. If you don't know if you want to kiss this woman after 3 dates - then there's something wrong with you that goes beyond anything we can help with. If you do know that you want to kiss her - then for need to stop viewing that as something bad. There's nothing bad about it. It's 100% natural, and at this point in your guys interaction - she SHOULD kiss you back happily. And im sure that if she kissed you right now you'd kiss her back. no? And if while kissing, she started unbuttoning your pants and playing with you - im pretty sure you wouldn't stop her would you????? And would any of this have anything to do with niceness???? Nope, it's natural human activity. And, your hang-ups are not natural; that are learned human rules/societal pressure on you to not be ALPHA.


2) You're moving way too slow.... This woman in her head - is begging you to make a move. She's wondering why you are not. And every moment that you do not make a move is a moment that she is closer to changing how she sees you. She's already giving you massive IOIs, but she's also already starting to show signs of seeing you as a nice guy/afc. Telling you that your last girlfriend must have been very happy with you can definitely be taken as a compliment. BUT, it's something i'd want to hear after she kissed me, or fvcked me. Not after i had niced her to death. She might as well have said, "Your last girlfriend must have been very happy with you... because, you're such a nice guy"... It seems to me that she's making more moves than you! She put her head on you? Tilt her head back and BAM - you're both doing what you want.



excuse 1 (and a lie you're telling yourself and us)



Excuse 2 (and if 3-4 dates in is too early to make ANY kind of move - it'd hate to hear when you think it's ok to make the ultimate move (and i'm not talking marriage))




Excuse 3. (if he was physically in your guys room - then i could see your point.)



Excuse 4. (and this should not stop you from escalating)



You are.



there's no "maybe" to it.



Excuse 5. (your post here is turning into one of the biggest "why im being an afc" justification posts that i've seen in a long time. There is NO reason you should feel crappy about yourself if you make a move on a woman that you're not sure you want to MARRY. And yes - that is the way you're treating this and it's laughable.)



Excuse 6.



Excuse 7.



Why in the world - if this is what you want - are you acting like you don't??? Why are you acting like your hesitation is from wanting to "get to know her" if your real concern is not misleading her???? Most women who are healthy and normal - do not view sexual interaction as a guaranteed diamond engagement ring in the future. I'm willing to bed that in all of this - you have a MUCH higher chance of being the one hurting, not her!



Excuse 900. What do you respect about yourself so much? Your niceness? Your AFCisms? Your belief system which has been put there by feminist dykes?

The other day on new years eve - i saw a man at dinner with his wife. They were wearing matching outfits. Sooooo cute and adorable. She was on her phone texting (probably me) the whole time, and he picked up his phone once to do something with it and she barked at him "put that away, you don't have important business." and he shot a look at her like he wanted to kill her, but what does he do? he puts his phone away and sits there like a little child for the next 20 minutes.... i went in the bathroom and vomited for him. I guarentee you that that man was nice, let her make all the first moves, and never had a backbone to say no to any request she made. And im sure somewhere along the line he told himself he is displaying chivalry by being so d@mn timid!

You can accidentally get some women with your niceness.
You can accidentally get a wife with your niceness.
And then.... you can be that red sweater wearing Beta provider with your niceness.

Spot on analysis and advice.

Go tomorow, but kino isnt enough.

You need to kiss her. You need to make a romantic move.

And there is no nice guy way of doing the first kiss, its like jumping into a freezing lake. Feels great afterward though.

 

[CarlitosWay]

WOW....I see it clear as water. She wants you to make a move and it's like she's expecting "something" anything!!! Give her something to think about or she's going to next your ass and you're going to see her talking/dating some one else. Right now all she knows is nice, fun, funny when she thinks of you. Notice there isn't sexual, manly, or romantic no where in there? Put all that those spices together and you have a recipe for irresistible attraction if interest levels were decent to begin with.

Then you're prob gonna beat yourself up even more for not doing nothing. Don't be that ****in' guy !!! Better to live knowing you went for it and failed/succeeded, then in regret of not doing shi*!

If you get rejected it may hurt a bit at first, yet like a cut **** heals fast and your skin toughens up more.

 

[Dillan.J.Dove]

Well the answer to your title is yes. I'm nice and i get laid question is are you?
right a post and tell it how it goes.

 

[UniKKatiL]

Hello, I'm new here. I've read allot on this forum, and I'm reading right now the DJ BIBLE. I must say I enjoy reading it.. it has cleared my mind now. I feel stupid for not thinking like that before.

Anyway, I don't understand why you would want to be the nice guy?? being a DJ is supposed to be fun, and I must say I enjoy it. It has changed my life and my way of thinking, and I've been on this site for a while as a guest, reading and reading, and telling myself ''What a ****ing idiot I am'' for not thinking like this before.. no more mr.nice guy and getting nervous in front of hot chicks.. **** girls man. I don't need girls. They need me. I don't need to impress them, they need to impress me. And treat girls, just like you treat your friends.. I always joke around with my friends, we make fun of each other etc... Even racial jokes.

I think, If you want to become a true DJ then you have to first be happy. You have to smile and love yourself. If you want to be happy you have to succeed in what you are doing.. your passions, hobbies etc. let them come first, and you have to smile and be happy with the person you see in the mirror, and from there chicks will come along. Never put the chicks infront of your passions and happiness. Don't let a chick control your life, dude.

 

[Being_the_Don]

I don't want to act like a chump. She's not from around here and I've corrected one of her emails. She said she was moved by that and found me kind and patient.


P.S.: [no homo]

I'm going to make a wild guess: she's a foreigner, isn't she?

 

[Zirko]

Gather around me my friends and I shall tell you a tale [no homo],

She's still in my bed so I don't have much time to go into the details but...

I followed your advice and it worked. We got home and one thing led to another. I didn't sacrifice any of my values either.

I just wanted to take some time to honestly thank the guys here who told me not what I wanted to hear, but what I needed to hear.

I'm still not out of the woods yet and there's still much to be done but it pretty much ended a whole year without having sex. It's also feels good because she's 22 and I'm 29 so it goes to show that age difference...

Again, thank you so much.