Can the two divergent philosophies of the 'seduction community' be reconciled?

[Zarky]

So it seems that there are two types of guys here with two very differing desires:

1) The guys who are trying to have a traditional monogamous relationship with a high-quality broad.

2) The guys who are trying to bang tons of mid- to high-level broads.

Back when I started out on A.S.F. back in late 1996, 95% of the guys were studying skills to seduce many chicks while not spending much money. To me, that's the highest calling for man--lots of hot pvssy banged, little time and expense incurred.

The equation running like this..

(# of pvssies * attractiveness of pvssies) / (time spent * money spent) = X

The greater X is, the better you're doing.

Then I come on sosuave and half the posts are about how awful "feminism" is. Well, feminism leads to a decrease in time spent and money spent, so it increases X and therefore is a positive thing as far as I'm concerned.

So I'm starting to realize that there are a lot of guys out there who fall into the #1 category above. They're not trying to bang a ton of mid- to high-level women but want just one good one. My question is: why? And why are you here?

Getting a woman via the "traditional" way of being the masculine provider for her while she is the feminine, demure, obedient woman in the relationship is not difficult nor unique. You certainly don't need an internet forum to try to help you achieve this, you merely need to be the standard dude who spends money on women and marries one after an extended courtship and lives monogamously with her for the rest of his life. Billions of men have achieved this without any instruction whatsoever.

Back in the ASF days, NSA lays were gold and MLTRs with hot women were the holy grail of seduction, and to me they still are. I base my entire socio-sexual existence on this and probably always will.

I'd be interested to hear from guys as to what their desires are, and if they're looking for "traditional" relationships, why do they need internet advice to help them achieve this? I'm really curious. Because back in the day, "feminism" was a non-topic.

 

[Wilko]

2) The guys who are trying to bang tons of mid- to high-level broads.

Trying being the operative word here, I'm doing...ok. I know it's implicit in the way you framed the question but maintaining my independence and my chosen lifestyle while I achieve number two (insert juvenille laughter) is every bit as important to me as keeping the energy and expense incurred to a minimum.

As far as a committed, monogamous LTR goes, it's not something I aspire to. Now if I could just keep that information to myself I might start getting THAT number closer to where I'd like it to be...

 

[Falcon25]

3) Have had many, many women. But ready to find one good one, since most have been scum bags.

That's the dimension I'm in.

 

[Colossus]

I've been with enough women. Not to say I've lived the life of Casanova, but I really have no impetus to go out and nail more chicks than I already have. I've just reached that point where I am totally ok with being with one (good) woman. There is no magical pot of gold underneath the pvssy rainbow.

I really dont come here for internet advice, I just like some of the topics and like to exchange viewpoints. Even if you're not into seduction anymore there are some top quality guys here with good insight on women and life in general.

 

[zekko]

Getting a woman via the "traditional" way of being the masculine provider for her while she is the feminine, demure, obedient woman in the relationship is not difficult nor unique. You certainly don't need an internet forum to try to help you achieve this, you merely need to be the standard dude who spends money on women and marries one after an extended courtship and lives monogamously with her for the rest of his life. Billions of men have achieved this without any instruction whatsoever.

Billions of guys have banged multiple women without any instruction also.

I think what you're selling short a little bit is how tough it is to find a woman that makes a good life partner. You can't just go out and marry the first woman you meet. You have to find one that is suitable for you, and that usually takes going through a lot of women. Then even if you find one you like, you have to be a high enough value guy to attract and hang on to her, to make her want to stay with you.

I think there is a natural progression most guys go through when they are young - they want to experience sex from a lot of different women. So they "sow their wild oats" and bang a lot of girls. At some point they meet someone they want something deeper with, and they find that all the random hookups are no longer as fulfilling.

This is pretty much the scenario I went through. And it's a good way to go. When you go through multiple women you learn about them, gain valuable experience, and learn what characteristics are important to you in choosing a woman.

Although I had sex with a lot of women when I was younger, I honestly never found it particularly satisfying. From a purely sexual standpoint, it's great, but unlike a lot of guys on here, I like women, I like being around women, I like doing things with women, and not just sex. And I like having a partner.

Some guys just stay with the banging multiple women idea thier whole lives, and never really want anything more. That's okay for them, I guess. Different strokes for different folks. For me, it's more been there, done that. Similarly, I'm also bored with the bar and party scene. I enjoyed drinking a lot when I was a young man, but I'm more interested in other things now.

I had a girlfriend that I lived with when I came here, so I didn't come here to learn to be a PUA. I came here in a moment of weakness because I was approaching 50 and I was concerned about being over the hill. I got over that quickly enough, but I stay because I've always found the subject of attraction and how it works interesting.

 

[Warrior74]

So it seems that there are two types of guys here with two very differing desires:

1) The guys who are trying to have a traditional monogamous relationship with a high-quality broad.

2) The guys who are trying to bang tons of mid- to high-level broads.

Back when I started out on A.S.F. back in late 1996, 95% of the guys were studying skills to seduce many chicks while not spending much money. To me, that's the highest calling for man--lots of hot pvssy banged, little time and expense incurred.

The equation running like this..

(# of pvssies * attractiveness of pvssies) / (time spent * money spent) = X

The greater X is, the better you're doing.

Then I come on sosuave and half the posts are about how awful "feminism" is. Well, feminism leads to a decrease in time spent and money spent, so it increases X and therefore is a positive thing as far as I'm concerned.

So I'm starting to realize that there are a lot of guys out there who fall into the #1 category above. They're not trying to bang a ton of mid- to high-level women but want just one good one. My question is: why? And why are you here?

Getting a woman via the "traditional" way of being the masculine provider for her while she is the feminine, demure, obedient woman in the relationship is not difficult nor unique. You certainly don't need an internet forum to try to help you achieve this, you merely need to be the standard dude who spends money on women and marries one after an extended courtship and lives monogamously with her for the rest of his life. Billions of men have achieved this without any instruction whatsoever.

Back in the ASF days, NSA lays were gold and MLTRs with hot women were the holy grail of seduction, and to me they still are. I base my entire socio-sexual existence on this and probably always will.

I'd be interested to hear from guys as to what their desires are, and if they're looking for "traditional" relationships, why do they need internet advice to help them achieve this? I'm really curious. Because back in the day, "feminism" was a non-topic.

What is ASF and NSA? Damn nerd speak.

Do you know how many guys can't get a traditional relationship? Case in point, the main discussion forum. You wanna rethink that blanket statement about traditional relationships? I think you dashed this off without much thought. I expect better from you, you are generally one of the better posters.

 

[mrRuckus]

I just want to find a woman who can suck my d1ck without her teeth being involved, will make me dinner without being told, and never dances on a bar.

 

[Jeffst1980]

I don't think of this place as a "community" board, per se. Sure, there's some talk of tactics, etc., but I see it as more a general discussion on the modern dating scene. I think the majority of posters on the MM forum don't really subscribe to PUA dogma, and the discussion forum guys are by and large younger guys that just want to have a chance with girls. I can relate to being 19 and completely clueless about women. I remember reading ASF in '99 and getting little of practical use out of it, other than not to buy things for girls. It would have been far better to start with the basics and do a DJ bootcamp, which is a bit more generalized.

I don't think the PUA lifestyle is for everyone, either. Keeping up MLTRs is exhausting, and although the risks of sleeping with a ton of women are a bit inflated for media consumption, sex still comes with consequences. I'd like to think that this board advocates a bit more responsibility than the "sleep with every girl you can" model of pickup (though, I could be wrong).

The most valuable ideas I've taken from this site have been extremely generalized ones--basic principles that govern attraction, bonding, character assessment, etc. One could extrapolate these principles and craft PUA routines, or use them to maintain power and intrigue in a current relationship, or use them to filter out poor candidates for a life partner. It's up to the individual and their own personal preference.

 

[Zarky]

well I appreciate the thoughtful replies, other than the one that said I "dashed [the post] off" without thought. I gave it a lot of thought, as I do every single thing I write.

Hmm.. ok. I'm kind of hoping to involve myself with people who will help me reach my next level. I can (and do) have MLTRs with 6s and the occasional 7. I know a number of 8+s I could be married to within 6 months if I wanted to. I don't. I want to have MLTRs with 8s. That's my next step. I need to find information that will allow me to reach this next step.

Hell even Chuck Sheen's girls are no more than 8s. If I--an average shmo with a below-average income--can have MLTRs with 8s I think I'll be doing better than 98% of men out there. That's my next goal. I need to find a place that will let me achieve this.

Thanks for the replies.

 

[Fuglydude]

well I appreciate the thoughtful replies, other than the one that said I "dashed [the post] off" without thought. I gave it a lot of thought, as I do every single thing I write.

Hmm.. ok. I'm kind of hoping to involve myself with people who will help me reach my next level. I can (and do) have MLTRs with 6s and the occasional 7. I know a number of 8+s I could be married to within 6 months if I wanted to. I don't. I want to have MLTRs with 8s. That's my next step. I need to find information that will allow me to reach this next step.

Hell even Chuck Sheen's girls are no more than 8s. If I--an average shmo with a below-average income--can have MLTRs with 8s I think I'll be doing better than 98% of men out there. That's my next goal. I need to find a place that will let me achieve this.

Thanks for the replies.

Zarky, I'd like to hear about how you maintain MLTRs... seems quite time consuming man. In addition, why do you wanna have MLTRs w/ 6's-7's? Why not bang lots of them and enjoy the sexual variety that it brings?

In response to your earlier question: I think its all about what makes you happy. Life isn't just about pursuing and banging girls. Life is about doing stuff that makes you happy. For me I like learning stuff, having good friends/family, doing what I love, having awesome sex, training hard and being in elite shape.

I'm kind of a horn dog, so when I was single, I'd kind of fall into category "3", or sex w/ lots of average girls! I'm lazy when it comes to approaching/pursuing and all that so I've always gone for girls that were interested in me, and typically below the level of girls I could get as I'm all about efficiency, and not picky about what I stick my cack into. I partied a lot, did drugs, took my clothes off for money, but in the end I really wasn't happy inside. I was just too self-destructive living that kind of a lifestyle... ya it sounds good/fun on paper, but not really conducive to career advancement and "being all that you can be", etc.

Right now I'm in category A... it just fits my lifestyle in that it helps me to advance my career/education, it definitely helps with training as we are both competitive physique athletes. I also don't do that many party drugs, smoke weed, etc... perhaps most importantly I am the happiest I've ever been.

 

[omkara]

Have you checked out the RSD forums? I think you would find more of what you are looking for there. They have a more positive orientation. Anyone who posts misogynistic stuff will get smashed there. They also seem to be more knowledgeable and experienced with the vagaries of picking up highly sought-after women.

I haven't found this board to be all that helpful with advanced questions. I have found it to be informative about general principles of attraction though. A lot of the reason I come here is that many people tend to share my own slightly dark view of feminine nature. Also, this board goes deeper than a lot of the pickup forums I've seen. People talk about a lot of the issues going on in there lives, and it's kind of interesting.

 

[zekko]

Have you checked out the RSD forums? I think you would find more of what you are looking for there. They have a more positive orientation. Anyone who posts misogynistic stuff will get smashed there.

Yeah, RSD seems more directly focused on pickup, while SoSuave branches out into generally living life a little more. RSD also seems more focused particularly on clubs and night game. I like to read the RSD forums because they have some good ideas I think, although I think it gets even more cultish over there than here.

I agree the misogynism will not be tolerated over there, or will at least be greatly ridiculed. The philosphy over there is more that if you're bitter, it's your own fault, and that women are to be enjoyed, not hated.

A lot of the reason I come here is that many people tend to share my own slightly dark view of feminine nature

Females definitely have a dark side. My own view is that it is what it is.
Realize, be aware of it, and move on. Men aren't all sunshine and light either.

If I--an average shmo with a below-average income--can have MLTRs with 8s I think I'll be doing better than 98% of men out there

I've recently posted in a few places that most of the player types I know are guys with below average incomes. It may be that being good at this gives them some compensation for their lack of financial sex, I don't know.

Anyway, I don't see why you shouldn't be able to accomplish this if you set your mind to it. Probably most of the 8s I know are very receptive to getting attention from multiple men. They like to spin their own plates, as it were. Of course most 8s tend to be younger women, 20s to early 30s.

Sometimes they like to have one main guy (may even be married), but they still court attention from other guys on the side. I suppose they like to have the one main guy so they can brag to their girlfriends that they have some sort of significant other. No woman wants to be told "you don't even have a boyfriend?". You may need to consider these girls FBs (not sure what fits your definition of a MLTR).

 

[Jitterbug]

Reconciled?

It's not like those two groups are getting in each other's way.

 

[ThunderMaverick]

This site is in no way LTR friendly. It is good for teaching men how to go their own way and better THEMSELVES and individuals - not to better themselves with someone else. A lot of understanding, communication and compromise comes into a relationship and not everything goes your way at times. It's understandable; you don't have control of another person, despite your "frame". That's where a willingness to work with each other comes from.

This site in no way condones that. lol

 

[omkara]

This site is in no way LTR friendly. It is good for teaching men how to go their own way and better THEMSELVES and individuals - not to better themselves with someone else. A lot of understanding, communication and compromise comes into a relationship and not everything goes your way at times. It's understandable; you don't have control of another person, despite your "frame". That's where a willingness to work with each other comes from.

This site in no way condones that. lol

I wonder what would happen..... if no one gave a **** who got ***** anymore.

 

[joeEtata]

This is an interesting point because I seem to have a dichotomy about myself:

1.)A guy that wants to have emotionless sex with a cute/attractive/hot woman that probably wouldn't be his dating type.

2.)A guy that wants to meet a woman who's potential LTR material...that he's really attracted to and gets along with great as a person.

The difference is, I've experienced 2 but not 1.

I dated a girl, even if only a couple months, that I "really liked"...inside and out...felt great around. Walking around with her in public with my arm around her, I felt like "there's no one else I'd rather have right now." We didn't sleep together...we fooled around a lot...did everything but sex...(long story)...but the point is...even if for a brief period of time, I experienced that kind of attraction...and I honestly can wait for it. I'm not the type to go out solely to meet women, whether for sex or dating.

Then there's the first part, where I still haven't had sex (I only started the dating game 2 years ago despite being in my late 20s....had to work on my sh*t)...and if it's not with a 2 girl, want it to be with a woman that completely turns me on sexually no matter how hot she is...and just curious to have sex with that type of woman, who wants the sex back and wants sex without strings attached (yeah I know there are always strings attached but what I mean is, she wants a hookup or a sexually dominated relationship.)

I also live in fear that if I don't meet a 1 or 2, that down the road I'll just meet some UG that makes things really easy for me, next thing you know I'm married with 2.5 annoying kids.

 

[zekko]

This site is in no way LTR friendly.

You're right about that. How many guys do you know on this site that have even gotten steady girlfriends? I can think of a few, but most just get older and more bitter. Of course I think this site teaches you to avoid LTRs. Guys like Rollo and I had significant others when we came here.

 

[DanelMadr]

I don't need tons of chicks to make me feel better. That I know.

I am here to help myself cultivate my "manly" qualities. To help me to answer some of my question, I had, I have or I might have. This site is one big experience. You learn from other experiences.

Why?

When you want to pull that one quality chick, you certainly need the same set of skills....no shaking knees, no trembling voice.

I do not want to pick up some chick I don't really find attractive, who has no deep attraction for me like 'OK I settle down now, at least you will provide for us, pretty good.'

I thought that might be obvious. Of course I could settle down with one of the chicks, who know me well and have hots for me. But I do not have hots for them. To pull some strange chick, you really like, you need to be very cool indeed.

 

[Slickster]

Hmm.. ok. I'm kind of hoping to involve myself with people who will help me reach my next level. I can (and do) have MLTRs with 6s and the occasional 7. I know a number of 8+s I could be married to within 6 months if I wanted to. I don't. I want to have MLTRs with 8s. That's my next step. I need to find information that will allow me to reach this next step.

Zarky,

How much time do you have for yourself and your own life? I've never been in a relationship with a woman that didn't force me to give up some of my own precious time. While single I've dated several women at once at it was absolutely exhausting. For some reason I can't fathom what kind of "reward" I would require to give up most or all my spare time just to have a relationship with multiple women. It doesn't matter how hot they were or how good the sex was. My time is more important.

 

[Colossus]

^^I wonder the same thing. I used have a friend at the gym who was a true natural. I dont think he ever read a word of seduction literature. Anyways, he was known around the gym for having THREE concurrent LTRs for an entire year. They were supposedly hot, too. So one day I asked him how he pulled that off. His response? "I lied my my as$ off." He said he wasnt proud of it but the pvssy was always fresh, lol.

Personally I have no desire (nor can I imagine) trying to have multiple LTRs. I spend 5-6 days a week with my gf and that's enough for me.