Can someone explain why the abs are different?

[Heart Break Kid]

I was reading a couple articles on bb.com and one of the writers pointed out it's better to treat abs like other muscles in the sense of low reps of heavy weight build more muscle.

Now it took me about 3 months to fix my body fat to the level I needed for abs through high rep exercises and cardio. When I think about it I see it as high reps being more aerobic thus I'm losing more body fat... is this the only reason people recommend high reps over low for abs? A lot of people on bodybuilding assert high reps being for toning are a "myth" so that's all I can think of. I'm curious if I could have accomplished this faster via higher weight lower reps.

Should I Use High Reps to Get Toned?
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/henkin6fff.htm

As for high reps, don't go crazy: it's useless. If your goal is to make your abs more prominent, than you want to build their size, right? Do you build size on any other body part by doing 100s and 100s of reps? No. So why are abs different? They aren't.:
http://www.teenbodybuilding.com/ryanswan3.htm

I'm very interested in your opinions/comments on high vs. low reps (proper form to failure) for abs.

 

[blinkwatt]

I recommend that you stop reading stuff off of bb.com and just get out there and lift and see what works for yourself and friends(learn from them).

 

[afc_recovering]

The popular thinking around here is that heavy, low reps are the most effective way of getting that six pack. (miles behind losing BF, but you obviously know that) In my (non-expert, by any means) opinion, abs are like any other muscle on your body. They need the proper stimulus (heavy excercises) proper nutrition and proper rest to grow.

The way I see it is that if you're trying to grow a huge chest, you're going to try to consistently add more weight each week on the bench and continue making it more difficult. You certainly wouldn't bench 50 lbs for 100 reps to grow a huge chest would you? So IMO abs are the same way. Do heavy work 1-2 times per week and you should see some growth.

Anyways, that's the way I see it.


Blinkwatt:
You lift for what 3-4 hours a week? Don't you think doing some research in the other 160+ hours in the week could be beneficial to make sure you're using this time the best you can, rather than experimenting with sh!t that has already been disproven?

 

[Warboss Alex]

You lift for what 3-4 hours a week? Don't you think doing some research in the other 160+ hours in the week could be beneficial to make sure you're using this time the best you can, rather than experimenting with sh!t that has already been disproven?

the more you know about lifting the less you gain

 

[afc_recovering]

Not arguing with you WBA, just don't understand your logic.

How come the guys who were walking around weighing 125lbs at my gym when I signed up a year ago are walking around at 125lbs curling the same 35lb DB's with horrible form, while bragging about how really feel the burn after 'bicep day'?

I understand the thinking, just eat like a horse, lift like a maniac and the gains will come. But having some knowledge about lifting certainly couldn't hurt.

 

[blinkwatt]

Blinkwatt:
You lift for what 3-4 hours a week? Don't you think doing some research in the other 160+ hours in the week could be beneficial to make sure you're using this time the best you can, rather than experimenting with sh!t that has already been disproven?

Wow. Keep reading info from people that sell(read business) and you will get nowhere fast.

Warboss is right,the more you make of it,the less you gain from it. People often time put too much thought into work outs and their eating habits.

 

[Heart Break Kid]

I recommend that you stop reading stuff off of bb.com and just get out there and lift and see what works for yourself and friends(learn from them).

I appreciate the concern but I've been lifting proper form and nutrition for years. I was asking opinions on low rep vs. high reps for abs.

I have found a lot of debate on the subject and as afc_recovering said, I'm just looking to improve, when we have the basics down it's little things like this combined with motivation that allow us to push through those plateaus. Although I agree it is a common problem I can assure you I spend less time reading bodybuilding per month than I spend in the gym every other day.

However there are times when unsure as we are we would rather ask someone with more knowledge on the subject before completely switching or trying out an idea that directly contradicts previous knowledge.

So I ask again, hoping we can stay on topic this time, just as rAFC has found from experience I'm wondering if anyone could enlighten us on the avocation of higher reps concerning abs if not related to the fact they will burn more body fat via endurance/aerobics?

And blinkwatt, Warboss Alex, I've read a lot of your posts, many insightful and have helped me out... surely you have an idea or two, on the original subject we can benefit from?

 

[Quiksilver]

I suppose I'll throw my penny into the pond...

HBK, what do you mean low rep vs. high rep? They are both good, only... for different things.

Low rep = strength

High rep = endurance

In a sport like powerlifting, where there isn't much muscular endurance required, a low rep/high weight ab workout works nicely. Compared to say... basketball, hockey, tennis, boxing, and virtually any other sport where you're repeating the same motion over and over for a long time, you don't necessarily need that extra 40lbs of torque coming from your abs, because you won't be able to maintain that for very long. Many athletes in these sports are much smaller than their counterparts in powerlifting, not only because of the nature of their sport(catabolic), but also the extra size and musculature DOES NOT help.

For aesthetics, I'd definitely say go with low rep(8-15), and high weight, because it will build greater strength, stability, and size in your abs, which makes them look nice.

If you're involved in high performance sports, I'd tailor a workout and diet to achieve a body that WORKS for you in that sport.

Generally we preach low rep/high weight here because abs are a vital component in other lifts as well(squats, dls), and strength-wise, that muscle group needs to keep up just like the rest.

 

[cuzza]

Some people prefer higher reps because lower reps can increase the size of your waist.

 

[stronglifts]

Wow. Keep reading info from people that sell(read business) and you will get nowhere fast.

Warboss is right,the more you make of it,the less you gain from it. People often time put too much thought into work outs and their eating habits.

Everybody will agree that it takes years to build experience. Best example is the beginner that can deadlift twice his bodyweight in a year thanks to good coaching. Hell if I'd knew what I know now, I would have avoid many injuries.

Knowledge is power when applied. Don't tell people to stop reading. At least Heart Break Kid questioned the info & asked for opinion.

On topic: you should train your abs like any other muscle. Adding weight every workout.

 

[Warboss Alex]

Some people prefer higher reps because lower reps can increase the size of your waist.

tell that to Dave Gulledge..

people associate marathon ab sessions with the cardio workouts in typical aerobics protocols to 'tone up'. whereas in reality they're an ordinary muscle group which grows with progressive resistance, best kept in the 10-15 rep range for safety purposes.

weight training is not there to burn fat. it uses glycogen as a fuel and when that's gone it will turn to muscle as well as bodyfat. high reps doesn't burn fat directly - you could argue that the metabolic afterburn from glycogen-depletion and high intensity workouts will indirectly burn more calories yes, but that's not the point of weight training. the point of weight training is to gain strength primarily and if other variables are in place, gain muscle as well.

as for my comment on the more you know, the less you gain.. yeah, knowledge is fine but I was referring to people who trawl through every bbing website in existence reading just about everything in sight, overanalysing the sh it out of tiny little details and trying to 'think' themselves strong with low protein (because the body "can't assimilate that much") and fancy pre-exhaust/triple dropset/fullbody 16 times a week routines.

 

[blinkwatt]

On topic: you should train your abs like any other muscle. Adding weight every workout.

That depends.

If you goal is to have completely flat abs that are defined then no,adding weights won't help. Adding weights will just want to make them grow(from what I've seen),which abs aren't supposed in my opinion.

 

[Warboss Alex]

If you goal is to have completely flat abs that are defined then no,adding weights won't help. Adding weights will just want to make them grow(from what I've seen),which abs aren't supposed in my opinion.

you can have 4% bodyfat and no abs if they haven't grown. they need to grow like any other muscle.

 

[MrS]

Yo, core isn't just abs.
Abs is your obliques, your hips, your lower back.
Don't neglect those areas when training "core".
Too many people do this.

 

[floydtheater07]

the more you know about lifting the less you gain

Very true, strangely. I've been lifting regularly for three months now, adjusting my diet and workout based on my goals, and although my frame apparently feels very solid (that's the reaction I get from girls and relatives when they hug me), the way my body looks hasn't really changed all that much.


My friend, on the other hand, has a body type a lot like mine. Relatively short, and we eat a lot but never gain weight. He decided to start working out, having no clue about supplements and diet and reps, etc. I thought I would easily show him how it's done, but in a very short amount of time he has made noticeable changes to his body, accomplsihing much more in a month than I have in three. And he just doesn't think about it. I, on the other hand, think maybe too much about it.

 

[mintxx]

the more you know about lifting the less you gain

Also agree, and I think this applies to diet as well.. a lot of people - myself included in the past - end up eating less whole food calories than they did before they started eating for muscle, because they overthink food and get hooked on the illusory technical value of supplements. Just get in there and do it. It's the week by week pound by pound that matters

edit: i see this has been said LOL

 

[stronglifts]

you can have 4% bodyfat and no abs if they haven't grown. they need to grow like any other muscle.

Exactly. You'll see your abs even if you're at 15% body fat if you have strong developped abs.

 

[MrS]

Woops, where I said abs is.. I meant core is!

Lower back is definitely underrated.

 

[danno1]

If everyone had a strong and stretched lower back we wouldnt see so many of these stupid back pain commercials

 

[stronglifts]

If everyone had a strong and stretched lower back we wouldnt see so many of these stupid back pain commercials

The lower back is designed for stability, not mobility. You should never stretch it. You can decompress your vertebrae. But not stretching.

Lower back pain is caused by weak abs & dormant glutes.