Can I save my LTR?

[49au]

The fact that she sees you as ADDED pressure says to me she aint into you - certainly doesn't love you despite what she said..

Great point. I do think there is a distinction between stress she would feel as a result of trying to "deal" with a relationship she doesn't really want vs. stress of wanting the relationship to work but feeling like she's not doing enough for me. She and I have had that conversation.

She has broken down crying on more than one occasion when she's talked about school and how far behind she feels in her preparation for board exams. So I don't think it's BS, though as you say there is more going on here than just stress.

 

[LoneWolf]

interesting... so what do you guys think the cause of her being uninterested all of a sudden? he's too available? boring? i would like to take some notes down so i don't end up in this situation of 8 months putting in effort into a relationship and this happens. pretty nasty stuff :S

 

[mahoney]

I don't know about all the specific stuff (theres a lot of detail and things are actually usually a lot simpler than you think)

But i do know that if a girl has a lot of work or other type stuff going on, or is feeling stressed, they don't really want more of that from their boyfriend. its supposed to be fun, right?

Or put it another way, if you are stressed about work and other things, do you really want your girlfriend wanting to "talk about the relationship"

Dudes hate it when girls want to "talk about the relationship" but they're pretty guilty of it themselves a lot of the time, always wanting to know where they stand. A girl should want to spend time with you, not feel obligated

 

[GhostWriter]

I was also in a LTR with a girl attending med school.

Let me tell you this, no matter how many hours of study/rounds she had to do...
she always found time for me.

The religion thing I could see being a determining factor, but not this late into the relationship. If religion really mattered, she would have never dated you in the first place. If you fell for a Muslim girl, that might be a legitimate reason, however not in this case.

It would be different if you're not as religious to a degree, but not a differing variant (or lack thereof).

A lot of girls in graduate school (law/med/etc...) dump whoever they're using until they get that high paying job. It happens more often than you think, but she's still in 3rd year, not 4th.

You can wait it out while moving on emotionally. If she comes around great, if not... you've already somewhat moved on.

I opted for the third decision, however...

I got tired of being in a half baked ambiguous relationship a week later, then ended it.

In situations like these, if you stick with her now I think you'll only get used.
Good luck.

 

[Mr. White]

I hear what you say, but I'm sticking to my guns here.

If her family is very religious, it means that she grew up with a bizarro-fantasy view of the world. Being smart doesn't change that. Being grindingly poor changes that. She's a med student, so she never skipped a meal in her life.

I think she has a lifelong emotional investment in her fantasy about marrying a doctor, and that's why she's going to medical school. All med students trade up when they get their degrees and licenses. She knows that. That's why she's saying "no" to her classmates -- for now. She wants to be the prize for an AFC doctor who has low-status women throwing themselves at him. No matter how well-heeled you are, if you don't have a MD, you can't fulfil her fantasy. She's an ugly, stupid nothing if she doesn't marry a doctor.

Sorry, brother. You should have seen it coming.

 

[49au]

All:

Thanks again for the insight. I am slowly starting to get past my emotions and see the big picture here. She called me last night, and we had a talk about this in which I incorporated a lot of the advice here. Will update in a little bit.

i would like to take some notes down so i don't end up in this situation of 8 months putting in effort into a relationship and this happens. pretty nasty stuff :S

I think this is a very good discussion in general for guys to have, because it does happen. Women flake. And I'm sure the reason most of the time is that the guy just becomes too available and loses his masculine edge around them. But LTRs in general don't see to be addressed too much in the PU community.

Or put it another way, if you are stressed about work and other things, do you really want your girlfriend wanting to "talk about the relationship"

Good post, my last LTR was like this. She was always nagging me about marriage, the future, blah blah blah. And at the time I was starting a business, dealing with a lot of stuff, and it drove me absolutely crazy.

 

[LoneWolf]

i thought the being too available thing only applies to girls you started seeing. i'd of thought being in a LTR, wouldn't matter how available you are. i guess girls don't stop wanting challenges eh? christ. hard work

 

[sosilky]

"This is probably your fault for changing somehow or becoming to available."

Perhaps the person who posted this or someone could expand and explain how to avoid this. Isn't it boring to not change/ when is the right time to be available or affectionate. After a while the girl will leave if yu don't do these things right? How do you know when it's the right time?

 

[49au]

So, yesterday I was able to really work on my mindset and find the ability to let her go if that is what it came down to. I'm not going to change my beliefs on religion, and I'm not going to accept her leftovers or second best.

I ultimately decided that I want to be with this girl, but it has to be on my terms if it's going to happen. So I needed to establish that quickly.

The first thing I did was put an innocent looking one line status update on Facebook about how I had just had a serious epiphany. Then this girl that my gf is really jealous of immediately liked it, which is a plus. I knew I would hear about it soon.

Later that night she sends me a text after getting home from her mom's. I don't respond, and after a few minutes she says, "I hope you're doing ok. " Obviously it seems like she is feeling pity for me, knowing how upset I was... and pity certainly isn't good for interest level. So I say something like, "Not sure what you mean? I'm good, just a little drained from being on the boat all day." So we have a few messages of chit chat back and forth, and then I abruptly say that I'm laying down, she can call if she wants to talk but I don't feel like texting.

A few minutes later she calls me. It took about 60 seconds before she asked about my Facebook update. I acted reluctant to tell her and just kept saying I didn't want to talk about "us" right now, even though I did. She kept insisting.

So, we had a good talk in which I think I clearly demonstrated willingness to leave, and I believe it had quite an effect on her. This convo lasted an hour, so here are cliff notes:

- I was very direct and told her that I was OK with us breaking up. She started crying and said, "It sounds like you're OK with whatever happens." She sounded seriously disappointed. I think told her that my "epiphany" was simply that I thought if I lost her I was losing something extremely special, but I had realized that if she didn't want me after how good I had been to her, I wasn't losing anything at all.

- She told me that there was no other guy, but she felt tremendous guilt because she sometimes still thought about her ex (who she was with for 4 years) when she was with me, and compared us. I pulled no punches, showed no emotion, and just flatly said, "Then I don't want to be with you. You need to go back to your ex. I have a past too, but I put it behind me, and I want someone who has done the same." I think that hit her right between the eyes. She started back pedaling and saying how confused she was, and that she never wanted to go back to him, and how she didn't know what to do.

- Throughout the conversation, I used phrases like "I don't want to be with you" repeatedly. I also told her I didn't want her leftovers. I tactfully reminded her that I was seeing multiple women when I met her but stopped because she gave me something they didn't, yet I had to keep getting that if I was going to stay with her. I told her that I have a lot to offer a woman but I require someone who will give me back the same and enrich my life. I just kept hammering her with direct statements conveying that I was not going to tolerate second best, or being strung along, or waiting for her to "decide" something.

- She asked me if I felt like I could "get past" this and forgive her for this mess, which I thought was a good sign. I think my answer to this was really good. Instead of saying "no" and closing the door, I said that I could get past it but ONLY if it was because she was just having a breakdown from the stress in her life right now, and wasn't thinking straight. I told her I still believed our chemistry was there, and we could have a really fun relationship again, if we just took a breath and slowed things down. In a nutshell, I said I could work things out with her if she just THOUGHT she was losing interest, instead of actually losing interest. The overall context of the conversation was that if she HAD in fact lost interest, I didn't want her anymore.

- I told her she thought I wanted certain things from her like marriage, and that she was wrong about what I wanted.

- A few times during the conversation I made statements like, "Then we need to break up", "then I don't want to be with you", "then I can't be with you", etc. My purpose was to continually put her at a point in the convo where she was given a very easy out from the relationship, to see if she'd take it. Every single time I did this she was just quiet, or started crying. She never answered these statements affirmatively.


At the end of the conversation I told her that we needed to take a break. She started crying again, and again wouldn't say anything. She finally just said that it was 1am, she had to be up in a few hours and was going to sleep. So I got off the phone. This morning she sent me her usual good morning text as if we hadn't had the conversation.


What I found interesting about last night was that every single time I made a statement like "you need to go back to your ex" or "I don't want to be with you", she never took these opportunities and just said, "Maybe you're right" or whatever. I tried to let her off the hook and she wouldn't take it.

I understand that a lot of times, even if she wants to end things she won't be able to do it herself, but I tested and made it SO easy for her. At this point I honestly believe that she IS confused, and there is still room for me to save this relationship.

So if I'm right about this, how do I proceed? I clearly demonstrated last night that a) I'm OK with losing her b) I won't let her string me along c) if we are going to stay together, I want her best.

I think at this point, I'm just gonna sit back and let her initiate all contact, and be a little more unavailable than usual. If after a few days I feel like she's distant, I'll end it. Good course of action?

 

[PrettyBoyAJ]

I personally think that you shouldn't hit at break up more then 3x, You did that completely. Makes you look like your undecided, You need to make a clear decision if you are going to be with her or not. If you do choose to stay with her you need to tell her how you expect things. and if you don't get that then break up with her. Don't make her feel guilty. Don't hint at a break up multiple times. Just do it and don't ever backtrack.

 

[49au]

I personally think that you shouldn't hit at break up more then 3x, You did that completely. Makes you look like your undecided, You need to make a clear decision if you are going to be with her or not. If you do choose to stay with her you need to tell her how you expect things. and if you don't get that then break up with her. Don't make her feel guilty. Don't hint at a break up multiple times. Just do it and don't ever backtrack.

I see what you're saying, but I thought the idea here was to show that I am willing to leave or OK if she decides to leave, without actually ending the relationship?

 

[LoneWolf]

i think you went too hard on her. you should of only said it once that you would be fine without her. i think you should tell her you want to give it another shot but if things start to get funny again you will break it off. too many games here bro. how else are you gonna know if it will work if you are playing games and trying to be unavailable? start seeing her again, thats the only way to know if it's gonna work. you're wasting hers and your time. you're the man right? make a choice, do what you want to do. you can't just sit back and wait for something to happen.

 

[49au]

i think you went too hard on her. you should of only said it once that you would be fine without her. i think you should tell her you want to give it another shot but if things start to get funny again you will break it off. too many games here bro. how else are you gonna know if it will work if you are playing games and trying to be unavailable? start seeing her again, thats the only way to know if it's gonna work. you're wasting hers and your time. you're the man right? make a choice, do what you want to do. you can't just sit back and wait for something to happen.

It's just tough to reconcile the three schools of thought here:

1) just dump her
vs
2) don't take action and let her come to you
vs
3) make a decision - dump her or keep her on your terms


I like #3 but I'm not sure how that will work. Yeah, I tell her what my terms are, but I can't just say "let's give it another shot" because there aren't just my feelings involved, there are also her feelings. And if she says "OK" but deep down she's still confused or not into it 100%, that will show in time and we'll be right back to square 1.

 

[doinwork]

She needs time to realize she has been taking you for granted bro. pick whatever school of thought you want or stop categorizing straqgies into a box and just do what needs to be done. Actions speak louder then words. you have had a conversation about this stuff and she has responded. Not to be negative, but how many times have you had a emotional conversation with a girl like this and she didn't act on the words that came out of her mouth once she got away from the situation?

Perhaps she was realy crying because she thought she might actualy lose you. Or its just a sad thing and that's how she's dealing with feeling bad about hurting you and moving on from all the good times you had. Don't let her have her cake and eat it too. (maybe that could slide if she was a **** buddy or you guys first started dating, otherwise she has to be ok with you seeing other people for a while) Is she crying because she's confused and is not ready to make a decision yet? she can't string you along bro you have one life to live.

Yiou need to give her space to show her that you mean what you said and also give her the chance to realize that she doesn't like not having you in her life. Women are feelings people there is no more room for rationalizing with her logicaly or warning her about what it's going to be like without you. You have to let her feel it.

It's a scary thing but if she moves on then she moves on, if she comes back she will be a better girlfriend then she was before. This is old school if you love something set it free stuff bro. Even Sting wrote a song about it.

 

[pipe007]

just let her initiate ALL contact from now on!!!!!!!

that's all you need, and when she contacts you, its ok to answer and talk briefly and then act busy, a bit indifferent.

completely ignore her low interest behaviors, and give her reinforcement (positive feedback) for her actions that suggest increase in interest for you.

 

[cordoncordon]

OK I am going to try and give you a realistic opinion here rather than just the typical "she's a ho, dump her" that you may find here.

I can understand BOTH your sides here. First, how long was it after her and her ex broke up that you two started to see each other? In defending her just a tad here, I know when my recent ex of 5 years and I broke up 2 years ago, even though I absolutely knew she was not the girl for me, it was still VERY hard letting her go. Quite soon after this girl and I broke up, I met another girl, and was head over heels for her in a matter of weeks. We have now been together two years and without question I can say this is the best relationship I have ever been in, and we are best friends, lovers, companions in every way. But with that being said, I still went through a time period in the first 6 months with the new girl that we were together where I still at times missed my ex, to the point where we would email or text or what have you. And the new gf found out about this. I knew that I didn't want to be back with the ex, but part of me had a hard time letting go of someone that I was with for so long and that I had cared about so much. It was almost a grieving process I had to go through. It in no way influenced how I felt about the new gf, but when alone, at times I was sad. After 6-8 months, those feelings went away to where now, while I wish my ex the best, I have no desire to see or talk to her. That is "probably" what your gf is going through if they broke up within the last year or so. Just her own way of getting through a breakup. Her being a girl, she has a harder time hiding these torn feelings that she is going through than a man would, hence her questioning YOUR relationship with her. She thinks because she misses her ex to a degree, it must be some sort of red flag on you, when in reality she is just being human, and more importantly....a woman.

Now, that being said, for her to come out and admit that she is missing her ex, that she compares him to you, etc, that is not good. That means there is something in the relationship with you that she is not getting that she had with him. Even when I was missing my ex, I knew that the new gf was way better for me and in every comparison, the new girl came out ahead. So there was no remincising on my part wishing I had the old gf back, even though I missed the comfort of the relationship. I knew what was good for me. Your gf, for whatever reasons, is really missing something from the ex. And that my friend is very hard to compete with. I had to deal with that once a long time ago with another girl, and you can never win in that situation. The girl will always make the memories out better than they really were. And will forget the bad ones as well.

I think what you should do is this. Call her tonight and say "look, I love you very much, but I cannot compete with a memory and what you had with your ex. You are obviously not over him yet, and that is not fair to either me or our relationship. So why don't you take some time, see how you feel about things with me, with him, and if someday you feel as though you have reached the point where you are 100% over him, let me know. And if I am single, we can go from there. No hard feelings."

You are not her comfort couch. You are not there to be there for her while she pines over another guy. It's either you or him.

This will either make her realize in a very short amount of time "wtf am I DOING!??? This guy is great and I'm getting torn up over a freaking memory. I had better get my azz in gear or I am going to lose this guy" Which is probably what she will do if I had to guess. Or she take the time away from you and move on. Either way, you win. You either get her back, more devoted than ever with her knowledge on what she was about to lose and scared ****eless that you were willing to walk away (which gives you great power), or you move on now, without any more drama, and find someone who TRULY wants to be with you.

Keep us posted and good luck.

 

[49au]

cordon,

This is such an awesome post and a fresh perspective.

It will be hard to figure out what he gave her that I am not. Her ex was in med school with her, and she said that the last year of their relationship it just fell apart because all they did was study together. And in the end, he really hurt her and broke up with her. On the contrary, she and I have done a lot of trips, unique things, and we go out a lot.

But as you said, we have selective memory.

 

[cordoncordon]

cordon,

This is such an awesome post and a fresh perspective.

It will be hard to figure out what he gave her that I am not. Her ex was in med school with her, and she said that the last year of their relationship it just fell apart because all they did was study together. And in the end, he really hurt her and broke up with her. On the contrary, she and I have done a lot of trips, unique things, and we go out a lot.

But as you said, we have selective memory.

Ok well if she is seeing him everyday or week in school, that isn't helping. If she didn't see him everyday this is a non issue imo. Out of sight out of mind. And who knows what he is talking to her about. Plus, he broke up with her, so that ALWAYS makes people want what they can't have. If she had broken up with him, I bet this issue wouldn't even be coming up. She would be over him and this would all be moot. But it is what it is and you have to deal with it...or not.

Believe me the trips you guys went on and the things you have done together should have done wonders for bonding you two to the point where any other guy would seem rather foolish at this point. Like you, my gf and I go on a lot of trips, mainly to Vegas about once every two months haha, and we have a blast and trips really help two people to connect. So there is something besides the excitement of doing stuff together that she is missing. I mean it could be anything. Sex, the way he talked, the way he smelled, I mean who knows. And it is not your job to try and replace that or to even care to find out. You are who you are, and if she isn't happy with that, there are plenty of girls out there who I bet would be.

Tell her what I said, and I bet she comes back stronger than ever. This is just a womans memory/fantasy.

And you didn't answer before, how long was it her ex and her broke up?

 

[49au]

Yeah... I'd say on average we go on a trip every month or so. A couple of the trips have been really spontaneous too, like planned the day before.

I am working on an email to her about this right now. Will probably send it tonight.

I'm not sure how long it had been. I want to say about a year. She doesn't see him every day. She may see him every few weeks or so if they take a test together or something.

She said she started thinking about this when she saw him one night to pick up some of her stuff that he still had, back when we hadn't been dating very long. She was on the way to my house and told me she was stopping to get her stuff from him first. She showed up at my house and everything was fine. I didn't notice anything changing at all until a few months later.

 

[cordoncordon]

Yeah... I'd say on average we go on a trip every month or so. A couple of the trips have been really spontaneous too, like planned the day before.

I am working on an email to her about this right now. Will probably send it tonight.

I'm not sure how long it had been. I want to say about a year.

Yeah we do the same. We live here in CA so we can just say "hey its Vegas time", and off we go. Think we went about 10 times last year. Went to the Bahamas once as well. Sounds like we have the same tastes in trips haha.

A year? Than she is still in the time where this is all probably a big mind freak she is giving herself over her ex. Especially if you were the first serious guy she dated after the break up. Send her that email, and I bet she comes crawling back in a short amount of time. The key is, if you do make this break, you are going to ask yourself at times "wtf did I just do?". But realize this is the ONLY hope imo of getting her back to the way you want her. I sincerely don't think she wants her ex back, so go in with that mindset, and that you are the man, and all should end well.

One other thing to remember though is this, if she doesn't come back the way you would like and that makes you happy? Dump her, no questions asked. Any girl that questions why she is with you over an extended period needs to be shown the exit.