Can I save my LTR?

49au

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I'm a long time reader of the forum and have really gained from it. Thanks in advance for any thoughtful replies.

This is a complex problem but I will try to keep this post as short as possible. I've been in an LTR for about 8 months now. I'm 28, she's 27. We dated and slept together for about a month before making things "official".

We met online, at the time I was travelling and also seeing other girls so I took things slow. Emailed and talked for about 3 weeks just flirting, playing games, and developing a pretty sweet mental chemistry before even meeting. The day I met her, I was hooked but was able to keep my cool. I did begin to phase out my other girls though, with the idea of getting into an LTR with her as long as my initial impressions weren't proven wrong over the next few weeks. Smart, getting great grades in med school, not a slut yet very sexual, good family, similar interests, humble, etc.

Fast forward - she is a very passionate and emotional girl (Latin), so we have had our share of fights, but overall we've had a great relationship to this point. HUGE emotional, sexual, and mental chemistry. Spent a lot of time together in great environments - Bahamas twice, Vegas, Key West twice, and a couple of other vacations + generally just doing unique, cool things together.

A couple months ago I started observing that she was toning down the open affection and her sex drive was slowing down. She didn't really seem detached, just different. I brought it up and she told me that she was under massive pressure/stress due to school (3rd year med) + work + having to make hard decisions about her career and specialty that were going to affect her for the rest of her life. This seemed legit to me, she was in fact working and studying her ass off, so I told her I would be patient and we'd work through it.

I was still a little suspicious that there was something deeper going on, but I wanted to see how it would play out.

Several days ago we had a fight and she said she wanted to break up because I was putting her under so much pressure. Repeated the same things about work/school/career stressing her out and me bringing up relationship issues on top of it was just too much. I honestly didn't feel like that's what she wanted, so I basically just looked her in the eye and said that we're not breaking up, we're just gonna back it down a notch and get rid of the pressure. That I was going to be even more patient. So we made up.

Last night, I knew something was up so after dinner I made her talk about it. She broke down crying and told me that she loved me but "something" had changed and she was confused, didn't know if she could see a future for us. Her primary reason was that I don't believe in god, she does, and she would want our children to have those "values." I asked her if that was the issue, or if that was only some rationalization she was coming up with for WHY her feelings had changed. She said she wasn't sure.

She stayed over, we talked about it a little more this morning. She said the same things. She just kept crying and telling me how good I've been to her, she doesn't want to hurt me, etc. In my experience this could often mean another guy... but I have asked her about this so many times and in so many ways, and I honestly don't think this is the issue. Of course I could be wrong, but I am man enough to admit it to myself if I felt like that was it.

She did say that she knows I'm serious and want to marry her (though I have never proposed or said anything about intending to), and she's scared that things have gotten so serious when she's not sure we have the same "values" (she believes in god and would want our kids to go to church, I don't). This could be BS, but it is also a positive sign that she is viewing me that seriously, maybe this is just a temporary freak out on her part.

I could write a lot about her past, my past, and lots of other factors. I'm sure it would be useful but it would make this already long post unreadable.

The bottom line is that I feel that a break up is likely coming. I've made it clear to her that I want to be with her and work through this, that the problem is not on my end. So I feel I have three options:

1) Put her to a decision and accept it. This seems like the worst option for many reasons, especially since she is submissive and always wants me to take the lead in things, large or small. The only benefit to this option seems to be that by not pressuring or forcing her, I may find that she is just having a temporary female moment of insanity and comes back to her senses.

2) Be proactive and dump her. It's very possible that she doesn't see me as a challenge anymore, and by dumping her I turn the tables and show that I am not willing to be in an environment where I feel unappreciated, and value myself highly.

3) Don't force a decision, wait it out. As I said, this could be good if she is just responding to the extraordinary stress in strange ways. I feel like if either of us ends this relationship it would be harder to get back into it, and I want to leave options open.

I just flat out don't want to lose this girl. I don't think this is one-itis or whatever... I've banged my share of sluts, and had a few LTRs along the way. I've never felt what I feel for her, and she knows that. She has met my family and friends, and everyone loves her and thinks we're perfect together. Until recently, I think she felt the same thing. :)

I can give a lot more details, but any thoughts are appreciated.
 

Sparky

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49au said:
Her primary reason was that I don't believe in god, she does, and she would want our children to have those "values."
I think that if what she says is true, it's a stupid reason. I mean no question of your "kids" (that I assume don't exist yet?) deciding for themselves about religion?

And if it's false, she's either seeing someone else (yeah that would be hypocritical if she's a God-believer IMHO) or she's gone off you. But she's lying to you with some lame God-botherer excuse.

If it was me, I'd put my foot down and tell her she's being stupid, and if she doesn't respond to that I'd seriously consider moving on. She can't "love" you that much if some imaginary guy in the sky is more important than you. Her "imaginary friend" so to speak.

Religion unfortunately does get in the way of relationships. You should have really discussed religion earlier on in the relationship, so you didn't get stung like this later on.

What religions are you both? You being of no religion I'm assuming, but what is she?
 

AMDG

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49au said:
Her primary reason was that I don't believe in god, she does, and she would want our children to have those "values."
I broke up with an atheist girl because of the same missing "values". This is a dealbreaker, for me anyway, fortunately it happened way earlier in the relationship and we parted ways very peacefully when we realised we were so different.

That said, it's strange she didn't mention that earlier, before having that huge "sexual chemistry", meeting the family and so on. My guess - she's waiting for the bigger better deal elsewhere, or has found it already.
 

Iceberg

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I think she just doesn't want to date you anymore.

It's not about atheism or school or stress. No one logically talks themselves out of a relationship that they are passionate about. Whatever feelings she had at the beginning are fading. It happens to some girl or guy every day.

If you want a chance, then break up with her or distance yourself.
You can't talk your way into her interest levels raising.

She needs to understand that you will NOT be there if she acts in a way that displeases you. But you seem to be telling her the opposite. "No matter what, we will stay together and work through this." That's the type of thing that's probably boring her into a lower interest level.
 

Colossus

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I think what's happening here is your relationship is the weak link in her life's chain. Med school is incredibly stressful, and although there are tons of people who maintain LTRs through it, there are plenty who cave to the demands. Men are typically better at dealing with stress than women. With women (and i'm being very general here), external life stressors often get channeled into the relationship, which ends up breaking due to the labile nature of relationships and the man's increasing attempts at "saving" it.

The God reason is actually a very valid concern for someone who has spiritual beliefs, but from what you've told us I think that is just a scapegoat for her loss of interest. She may not even know exactly why, so that's the best she can come up with.

This is a tough call, but I will tell you that the harder you "fight" to keep her, the more likely you are to lose her. Even though that is your natural impulse right now----there is nothing women hate more than feeling pressured. If I was you I would go with option 3. Dont force anything, back off a few steps but not completely. If possible, let it be apparent to her that you are desirable to other women. This is easier said than done...but it may behoove you to acquire some new female friends.

Good luck.
 

pipe007

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yea she is rationalizing, most likely, you guys are about to break up
and "i dont wanna hurt you" means
"im warning you I have no attraction for you, and I feel attraction for other guys out there, so in case I decide to start seeing someone on the side, then I wouldnt want to hurt your feelings."

i would take action INMEDIATELY!!!!!!
back down, dont call her, dont text her, wait for her to initiate messages and calls all the time from now on... let her SENSE you are backing away and that you are being disinterested in her.

LET HER WORRY THAT YOU MIGHT WALK AWAY FROM HER LIFE

you are doing the opposite thats why she is feeling confused and disgusted at your lack of MANHOOD.!

TAKE ACTION, do everything you are NOT doing right now
 

pipe007

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yea she is rationalizing, most likely, you guys are about to break up
and "i dont wanna hurt you" means
"im warning you I have no attraction for you, and I feel attraction for other guys out there, so in case I decide to start seeing someone on the side, then I wouldnt want to hurt your feelings."

i would take action INMEDIATELY!!!!!!
back down, dont call her, dont text her, wait for her to initiate messages and calls all the time from now on... let her SENSE you are backing away and that you are being disinterested in her.

LET HER WORRY THAT YOU MIGHT WALK AWAY FROM HER LIFE

you are doing the opposite thats why she is feeling confused and disgusted at your lack of MANHOOD.!

TAKE ACTION, do everything you are NOT doing right now
 

Warrior74

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pipe007 said:
yea she is rationalizing, most likely, you guys are about to break up
and "i dont wanna hurt you" means
"im warning you I have no attraction for you, and I feel attraction for other guys out there, so in case I decide to start seeing someone on the side, then I wouldnt want to hurt your feelings."

i would take action INMEDIATELY!!!!!!
back down, dont call her, dont text her, wait for her to initiate messages and calls all the time from now on... let her SENSE you are backing away and that you are being disinterested in her.

LET HER WORRY THAT YOU MIGHT WALK AWAY FROM HER LIFE

you are doing the opposite thats why she is feeling confused and disgusted at your lack of MANHOOD.!

TAKE ACTION, do everything you are NOT doing right now

Yup. You are trying to control her instead of controlling yourself. The first time a woman says she wants to break up with me, I let her. It's done. Everything deleted. "who is this?" is my responses to texts or phone calls. I don't have time. I'm not angry, but if you say that you want to break up, you are saying you have low interest in me. I'm not here to try to keep you interested, you either want to be here or not. Take it or leave it.

Here's a good read about the relationship you bought with this woman. Enjoy. http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=39729
 

Mr. White

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I agree that she has other men. She's been gaming you the entire time. She's trying to hook a rich, soon-to-be doctor. Now that the break is coming up, you're in the way. To her, you're a pest and she wants you to buzz off.

Nothing wrong with a short-term relationship with a cute gal. It's over. Move your stuff out now, or tell her to leave now and get her stuff by the end of the month.

One more thing. The religion stuff does matter, and it matters in a big way. Why? Well, who goes up to someone and asks "Do you believe in God?" I mean, besides evangelical door-to-door salesmen? The office fink. The prospective landlady. A hanger-on to an important client. Someone who either has power over you, or can make a lot of trouble in your life. What does it mean to answer in the affirmative? It's the same as saying: "Yeah, I know it's a fake, and I'm willing to say or do anything to islam myself to my human masters. I'm an intellectual wh0re. By the way, your azz tastes delicious today." A man who won't do that -- is extremely dangerous. He's independent-minded. He's the enemy. He must be crushed. A woman asking you "Do you believe?" is testing to see if she has power over you, to see if you'll go along with whatever BS she might make up in the future about why the baby doesn't look anything like you. This woman knows that she has no power over you, and can't accept a husband who she can't manipulate. But really, she's in love with herself, and snagging a "rich doctor" is her wh0re-minded proof that she's the greatest thing since sliced bread.
 

Delly2000

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I know you might not want to hear it but she probablly interested in someone else. Or she wants to be alone so someone else can come in her life.

I dont know what you do but like someone said she is probably thinking that she is going to be a doctor soon and going to be rich and she wants a husband that is on her level and compliment her. I am just speculating.

I had a roomate one time that had a girlfriend in med school. She wasn't all that great looking but intelligent. He helped put her through school. I am not sure of the depth of financial assistance he provided her but he was in her corner.

When she graduated she dumped him to see what was out there. He was devestated. She came back after she realized her mistake but it was never the same. He treated her kinda bad. Dated other girls but wanted her...but couldnt get pass the hurt. I understand how he wanted revenge but I think that just eats a person up inside.

I say put some distance between you two and don't be confrontational. She probably seeing someone else. I doubt she will tell you.

IMO the stress thing and religion thing is kinda weak.
 

49au

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Thanks for all the replies. There are a lot of ideas here, one thing that is immediately apparent is that I've made myself too available and I need to establish value to fix this situation, if it can be fixed.

After that it gets a little hazy. There could certainly be a lot of causes for this... stress/med school IS a legit reason, but it could also just be an excuse. There could be another guy. There could just be a loss of interest. She could just be having an emotional breakdown right now.

To those who suggested that she wants to get some soon to be rich doctor:

I certainly can see how that happens, but I don't think that's the case here for multiple reasons: a) I already make more than some doctors and she knows that. No debt, 100k+ in the bank, BMW, boat, live in a 2k+/mo apt right downtown, business owner with a lot of drive and goals. So if she was a gold digging wh0re, she could do worse. b) She has told me from the beginning how bad a dr's lifestyle is, basically like being a slave to the hospital. She is not the independent type. For instance, she gets upset if I go a day without talking to her... I doubt she wants a guy whose availability is going to be 0. c) She's not exactly going to be broke and need a man in 4 years when she's a dr. d) She will be graduating with like 200k+ in debt, as will any other soon-to-be doctor she may have met, and I'm completely debt free. Again, not good reasoning for a gold digger



The religion angle:

We HAVE had a disagreement about this before, and she has brought it up in the past twice. I also just found out yesterday that she talked to my sister about it last week. So I do think this is a legit concern for her. I'm agnostic, she is just "spiritual" - someone who believes in god but doesn't really alter their life much based on that belief. Her family is VERY religious though. She has one of those my-mom-judges-me-for-everything hangups, and from what I can tell, it's true. She said she was afraid of what her family would say if our hypothetical children weren't raised as Christians, which I would be vehemently opposed to. The question here is just if that is the problem, or just a symptom of the real problem.



The other guy angle, FWIW:

I don't think there is any active involvement with another guy yet, maybe there is someone who has piqued her interest. Or maybe as someone suggested, she just wants to be "open." But what I found interesting when I met her is that it was actually pretty obvious that she didn't really WANT a guy in her life because she was swamped with school and feeling unsure about her future, which will have to involve some travel to complete her internships. I think she was afraid of getting tangled up in a relationship and maybe having to cut it off.



The school angle:

I 100% believe that she is stressed as hell over school, and over her future and the big decisions she's about to have to make. Whether or not this is a legit cause for what's happening, I don't know. But she makes excellent grades, and is very focused on specific career goals that she has told me about since the beginning. So she takes school very seriously.
 
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PrettyBoyAJ

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Nice, Where do you work? (That's a lot of money saved up my friend)

Now on to your post. Point blank. She has lost interest from you. She has even admitted that. I do not think any other guy is involved here but it wouldn't matter anyway. She doesn't like you the way she used to before. This is probably your fault for changing somehow or becoming to available. But I'd suggest that you don't control her and don't tell her you won't break up with her... It's just sad because this will be in the back of your mind regardless if you guys stay together or not. I feel like you should just give her what she wants. Break up with her and move on. I know you want to fix things but fixing this and making up will only make the break up worse when it does eventually happen.
 

49au

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Now, obviously I need to establish social value, quick.


The good news is that she knows I have a very easy time with women, and there have been multiple occasions where she's run into women I've slept with or otherwise fooled around with. She's also seen girls on my Facebook leave comments or whatever, and assumes the worst (best?). She shows extreme jealousy in these situations. She has made a lot of jokes throughout the relationship about how I'm a male slut or whatever, part of it is teasing but part of it is grounded in the fact that she knows I was getting ass like crazy when I met her.

I'll say, though everyone says the same thing - I'm not a bad looking guy by any means. I dress well and stay well groomed. Could hit the gym a little, but I'm generally good in that department so she knows I wouldn't have a hard time replacing her.

I also know the importance right now of having a life outside her, and not just sitting at home when she's not around. I have a decent group of friends that like to go on trips, go party, go to dinner, just hang out. So I plan on inviting her along but demonstrating that I have plenty going on whether she comes or not. I also like to travel and do interesting stuff, ex. I'm doing a great white shark cage dive in Mexico later this year. So I'm not the basic, boring guy she may be used to.


So the real question is, what specific course of action do I take to be less available and establish value again to her?

There have been a wide range of answers on that. Flat out dump her, give her an ultimatum, don't do either and just back away and show disinterest? My ultimate goal is to get her interest level back and then just stay aware of when I'm getting too available.






PrettyBoyAJ,
I was just in the right place at the right time. Started a "cash for gold" business a couple years ago and it has done extremely well. I'm planning to expand aggressively...
 
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Zunder

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She's just not that into you.

If a women wants to be with you, she will be with you. God thing is a red herring...even Med School pressure. Jesus, you should be her "release" from the pressure of Med School where she can finish class for the evening, come home and fvck your brains out.

The fact that she sees you as ADDED pressure says to me she aint into you - certainly doesn't love you despite what she said.

Remember:actions not words.
 

PrettyBoyAJ

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The thing is. An Alpha Male should never ask "what specific course of action do I take to be less available and establish value again to her?". It should be the exact opposite.

So 49 I have one question for you

what specific course of action does she need to have to establish value for you?

Remember to always try to improve yourself though. Ask yourself this as well. What can you do to improve yourself.
 

Zunder

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Warrior74 said:
Yup. You are trying to control her instead of controlling yourself. The first time a woman says she wants to break up with me, I let her. It's done. Everything deleted. "who is this?" is my responses to texts or phone calls. I don't have time. I'm not angry, but if you say that you want to break up, you are saying you have low interest in me.QUOTE]

Spot on warrior
 

Scaramouche

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Dear49,
Collossus has it right,she is under tremendous stress....the best way to handle this is to back away...see less of her...rightsize your relationship to suit the time available...A Lady once said to me "Scarra,you can't just eat the icing on the cake" I replied "get me a slice right now and I will show you how it's done"maybe twice a week,max three,would be the ultimate...She will be soo happy to see you,but have a clear agenda,make it quality time....You should insist on this for her own good...now for your surplus time,pursue hobbies,get fit,maybe learn to dance....You will become a more interesting and useful partner for her...Oh and yeah,you knew it was coming,discreetly spin a few plates.
 

Zunder

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Scaramouche said:
Dear49,
Collossus has it right,she is under tremendous stress....the best way to handle this is to back away...see less of her...rightsize your relationship to suit the time available...A Lady once said to me "Scarra,you can't just eat the icing on the cake" I replied "get me a slice right now and I will show you how it's done"maybe twice a week,max three,would be the ultimate...She will be soo happy to see you,but have a clear agenda,make it quality time....You should insist on this for her own good...now for your surplus time,pursue hobbies,get fit,maybe learn to dance....You will become a more interesting and useful partner for her...Oh and yeah,you knew it was coming,discreetly spin a few plates.
I say again..........If she sees him as adding to her stress then she is no longer into him.
 

mahoney

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You haven't been seeing her all that long and you are coming across as too pressurizing/serious/controlling. Its not so much that you are overthinking things (tho you are) - you are kind of making her think about things too much too, this kind of takes the fun out of a thing
 
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