Can guys over 30 get a high lay count? My thoughts and experiences.

[CornbreadFed]

Additionally after a certain age a woman without children is a massive red flag.

Would you rather her postpone child birth or have kids with some loser or guy she is completely incompatible with?

 

[The Duke]

What if one is introverted with a low end job, a hobby that attracts women, but done alone due to costs, and average looks, and a personality that's not particularly suave? Do you think one can just take @Atom Smasher philosophy of judging women and turn it around solely with that mindset?

Refresh me on Atom's philosophy you are referring to.

 

[DonJuanjr]

Refresh me on Atom's philosophy you are referring to.

All good responses. But here is the magic key to the kingdom, the key that opens up the floodgates:

Judge them, and let them know they're being judged.

That's it. So simple yet so effective. You let them know in a self-amused, light-hearted way unless they act like brats, in which case you display disdain.

When I stopped caring about being transactionally "nice" and reversed my attitude to one of judgement, I was even shocked myself at how things turned around. Men resist this idea of jedgment like the plague, and I'mm telling you guys, this is the very thing women crave. They deperately desire to be able to look up to their man.

Men always seem to reject the idea because it's already hard enough to garner attraction, and they figure they will blow it if they start acting the way I recommend. In addition, we don't treat each other (man-to-man) so overtly judgmentally. Thirdly, we have all grown up with Hollywood and Disney shoving that self-depreciating gallantry down our throats.

Think about these two scenarios... The average guy (even red-piller) works to please and impress the ladies. He is greatly tempted to compliment her on her beauty. He does "cold approaches" which usually boil down to telegraphing that he's "all-in" and he is waiting for her acceptance or rejection of him. He hands her 100% of the power.

Now look at your pal Atom Smasher. He starts to talk to a lady while leaning away from her, with his skeptical arms folded. He is immediately telegraphing that he is judging her. He conveys the attitude that he is willing to extend a certain baseline of politeness and friendliness to her, but he is clearly cautiosly evaluating her and she knows it. For perhaps the first time in her life, she finds the script has been flipped and this guy isn't falling at her feet. This shakes her confidence and confuses her. It's doesn't make sense. She finds herself starting to qualify herself. And she can't help but feel at the very least intrigued, but most of the time, massively attracted.

The idea here is to be friendly and have fun, but to PROJECT that you are above her. You should be convinced of your superiority and it should be as obvious to you as the fact that the sky is blue. A total buy-in to your own magnificense relative to her.

Now I know that many of you are picturing being a flaming a-hole. This couldn't be farther from the truth. You're friendly and fun, yet firm and most definitely "unconvinced" as to her suitability. It's a nuanced thing that is difficult to articulate in writing. You question what she says in a fun way. You purposely and humorously misinterpet what she says. You give her VERY MILD put-downs like "Wow, I'm sure you make a lot of friends with that attitude"... stuff like that. Fun but with an edge. Ideally you want to mix up friendliness with some judemental projections verbally and with body language. She will regard you as mysterious, incomprehensible, edgy, confusing, and attractive.

Try that, or just let this message fade away to your detriment. Life is a game, an experiment, so have fun with it. The only thing most of yu have to lose is the girl you would have lost with your politeness and appeasing behavior anyway. If you're going to lose, lose her with the upper hand. But in reality, you will find that although you might lose a few here and there, you will gain far more than you ever did before.

Hold them accountable, hold their feet to the fire, and require respect. Your life will change; I guarantee it. If it worked for me, a completely clueless loser with women, it will work for most of you.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Would you rather her postpone child birth or have kids with some loser or guy she is completely incompatible with?

Firstly, women don't think like that. That is almost never the reason they don't have kids.

Secondly, if that WAS the reason, that would be an even bigger red flag because if they thought that then why the fvck do they keep dating those kind of men? And why would you believe they suddenly changed after 25 years of dating the same type of guy?

You'll be the dude they have kids with and then leave after a year or two because "something isn't right" because you aren't like the other 25 years worth of guys because when they date the same type of guy repeatedly that's who they WANT regardless of what they actually say or may do in the moment to "change things up".

Toxic people want toxicity in their life and you aren't going to change them. When someone tells you who they, believe them.

 

[SW15]

If you are in your 30s in a decent physical shape and decent social position, getting laid is much easier than before but only if you are fine getting girls 28 and above.

This is a valid point of view. There's some subjectivity as to what is decent. The threshold does keep getting higher.

The biggest disadvantage is that your social circle tends to close off in early 30s as many of your friends either move away for career or get married. You’re not in school or college anymore so you’re not meeting a plethora of girls like you were before.

So while intrinsically there isn’t much difference regarding age itself. It’s just that it’s harder to meet people as you Get older

Most men lose social circle options by some point in their early to mid 30s and have to become reliant upon approaching strangers, swiping on apps, or sending a massive amount of DMs on Instagram. These are all more challenging paths to getting a girlfriend or even getting new casual notches.

Additionally after a certain age a woman without children is a massive red flag.

Childless men don't think this way. A childless man will typically prefer to date a similarly aged childless woman over a similarly aged single mom.

35 and 40 year old childless women are passable prospects to childless men in the same age range.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

This is a valid point of view. There's some subjectivity as to what is decent. The threshold does keep getting higher.



Most men lose social circle options by some point in their early to mid 30s and have to become reliant upon approaching strangers, swiping on apps, or sending a massive amount of DMs on Instagram. These are all more challenging paths to getting a girlfriend or even getting new casual notches.



Childless men don't think this way. A childless man will typically prefer to date a similarly aged childless woman over a similarly aged single mom.

35 and 40 year old childless women are passable prospects to childless men in the same age range.

I know they don't, which is why they typically end up in bad situations because they don't stop and think that isn't normal.

 

[CornbreadFed]

Firstly, women don't think like that. That is almost never the reason they don't have kids.

Secondly, if that WAS the reason, that would be an even bigger red flag because if they thought that then why the fvck do they keep dating those kind of men? And why would you believe they suddenly changed after 25 years of dating the same type of guy?

You'll be the dude they have kids with and then leave after a year or two because "something isn't right" because you aren't like the other 25 years worth of guys because when they date the same type of guy repeatedly that's who they WANT regardless of what they actually say or may do in the moment to "change things up".

Toxic people want toxicity in their life and you aren't going to change them. When someone tells you who they, believe them.

This is ridiculous lol. Why are we making excuses for a woman that has already made a selfish and irresponsible decision of having a kid out of wedlock and scolding the girl that decided not to? A single mom is basically sub prime credit period while a woman that chose to abstain from having kids due being unable to find the right partner/advancing career is good credit. She has shown me that she has the ability to preserve her body and not make reckless life impacting decisions while the single mom just opened up her legs to some bum loser because he was “cool”.

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

There's so many posts in this thread that I'd like to comment on.

Some men (childless or single fathers) can pull off having casual, uncommitted sex with a single mom for a short period of time. Even in these arrangements, a man needs a lot of patience because scheduling get togethers with single moms can be challenging with her parenting time commitments.

"single moms can be challenging with her parenting time commitments."

Okay...

Single Mom: I can only hang out every other Friday night.

Me: Great! I'll put you in my schedule for every other Friday night.


I was a single Dad at a young age so maybe I'm biased and/or don't want to be a hypocrite.

Other than plates and sex and getting your **** wet, which is all fine and dandy, I've also had a few LTR's with single Moms and met the kid and all that. It is what it is. I get wanting to be with a female who's fresh and a spring chicken and ripe and a virgin and totally sane and doesn't have any wrinkles anywhere and is totally perfect and her Dad's a totally normal guy who will support you unconditionally. Good for you. Go get it.

I'm old, man. I don't want any more kids. So, a woman who's already had them and is happy not having anymore is actually a green flag for me. <----- believe it. But that's just me.

I've never taken the plunge and become a full on step-dad, however, I'm not going to knock the guys who have. I have a step-dad and he's great. And I'm sure there are plenty of young men on this forum who could have benefited from a positive Father figure in their lives.

That being said. Go get those ovulating 20 year olds and go settle down into the perfect life you've been dreaming of. Good for you.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

This is ridiculous lol. Why are we making excuses for a woman that has already made a selfish and irresponsible decision of having a kid out of wedlock and scolding the girl that decided not to? A single mom is basically sub prime credit period while a woman that chose to abstain from having kids due being unable to find the right partner/advancing career is good credit. She has shown me that she has the ability to preserve her body and not make reckless life impacting decisions while the single mom just opened up her legs to some bum loser because he was “cool”.

Except in almost no case what you described actually accurate as to why they didn't have kids, but keep believing whatever fantasy you are creating in your own mind.

A woman's urge to procreate at a certain age is one of the strongest instincts humans have. There is little positive to be taken against a woman that doesn't pay attention to her natural instincts.

There is also nothing to give credit for for dating losers for 25 years...Again. Tigers don't change their stripes.

And this doesn't even mention the risk of autism and other birth defects that rise exponentially after age 35 that women are subjecting their kids to by waiting

 

[The Duke]

What if one is introverted with a low end job, a hobby that attracts women, but done alone due to costs, and average looks, and a personality that's not particularly suave? Do you think one can just take @Atom Smasher philosophy of judging women and turn it around solely with that mindset?

The guys I know who have banged a lot of girls are all extroverts and have plenty of confidence. I think it would be much harder because constantly meeting new girls in person is mentally taxing even for extroverts. To put up big numbers its 3-4 nights a week dedicated to chasing women/hanging out in bars/going on dates/etc. I'm guessing most introverts would become worn out from that commitment? But an introvert could certainly have some success. Don't make the notch count your goal.

Atom's philosophy is solid, but it's just one piece of the puzzle. SMV is necessary before you can even apply what Atom discussed as well as some interest on her part.

A guy with average looks, and not a lot of money can bang girls, it just makes it harder to get the most attractive ones.

If you just start doing, you'll stumble across a little success and can use that to catapult you to the next level and increase your SMV.

Let the lesser girls help you get there.

 

[The Duke]

That natural desire for a woman to have kids also comes with other great traits that us guys desire(caring, nurturing, supporting).

Not all, but the majority of women that don't want kids will be career focused and score lower in the areas of caring, nurturing, and supporting. There are rare exceptions.

 

[SW15]

Single Mom: I can only hang out every other Friday night.

Me: Great! I'll put you in my schedule for every other Friday night.

Seeing a woman for 2-4 hours every 2 weeks is not a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship. That's a casual sex plate at best. A single mom with that schedule can be part of a rotation of a guy banging 2-3 different woman. Only an extremely thirsty beta male would find that acceptable for a primary relationship.

I was a single Dad at a young age so maybe I'm biased and/or don't want to be a hypocrite.

I'm old, man. I don't want any more kids. So, a woman who's already had them and is happy not having anymore is actually a green flag for me. <----- believe it. But that's just me.

There's a difference between an older, single father who doesn't want kids and an older childless man who doesn't want kids.

While the woman who has had kids and doesn't want more is a passable solution for an older single dad, the older childless man typically isn't excited about that woman.

That natural desire for a woman to have kids also comes with other great traits that us guys desire(caring, nurturing, supporting).

Not all, but the majority of women that don't want kids will be career focused and score lower in the areas of caring, nurturing, and supporting. There are rare exceptions.

It's a valid point that women who are mothers have some traits that men do find valuable in relationships. It's unfortunate that those traits come with a big string attached.

There is a great thread for all to participate in about career focused women.

Dating Career Women

Rich Cooper outlines the con's of dating a career woman. I found these issues to be my experience as well. Cons: 1. She doesn't know how to shut off her competitive mindset she used to battle men all day in her job. She becomes disagreeable, argues more, and her submissiveness evaporates...

www.sosuave.net

Women who don't want kids prior to 40 are less likely to possess caring, nurturing, and supporting traits. However, many men will take those downsides in exchange for not having to raise another man's baby or babies.

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

Atom's philosophy is solid, but it's just one piece of the puzzle.

Where is this "philosophy" you speak of? Does it involve video games? I'd like to see it.

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

I woukd like to add to this, that learning game is like learning how to box. The earlier in life you pick it up,the better.

AND ,eventually you'll have to "box your way "into the game of dating women. No way around it. So salute to @jessepinkman ,because he basically says that even though 30,s is late: never late is better, but better late than never.

Eventually you MUST go out to the cold streets to get rejected at least a 100 times. You MUST be able to chat up every woman, in every environment at any given time. If you missed out on this in your teens/20's, you better do it in your 30s. Or you'll enter 40 /50 league with the (lack of) gaming ability like a 12 year old boy. Thats how a grown woman will look at a man without any game; like he's a child.

I almost think that there is a window of opportunity to truly learn game. Let me give you a good example. In a pickup group I am a part of, there is a guy who tried to learn game in his mid-30s. Before that, he was a super blue pilled type of dude. Now the guy has "taken action" and had days where he does 20+ approaches. He has even spent most of his time trying to learn game and lived in Miami and NYC in the meantime. However, despite that, as he pushes his late 30s, he still struggles a lot.

So I wondered why that was and I realized that with game, there are subtle and nuanced things that you can only pick up on when you got in on it early enough. You learn it by being around a lot of other socially calibrated people and these are not PUAs or game coaches.

Things like not taking yourself too seriously, not being overly sensitive, being able to joke about yourself, being able to be easygoing when she throws a sh*ttest in your direction, and all of that are things PUA does not teach. You cannot learn that by just reading about it, you learn it by experience.

For a guy who was social and had friends growing up, it is muscle memory. For some hardcore newb getting into it at 30, it is new.

You look at these red pill guys, they take themselves too seriously and have delicate egos. Both are disasters for dating and meeting women.

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

Seeing a woman for 2-4 hours every 2 weeks is not a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship. That's a casual sex plate at best. A single mom with that schedule can be part of a rotation of a guy banging 2-3 different woman. Only an extremely thirsty beta male would find that acceptable for a primary relationship.

I don't think anyone is saying this. Sounds like a strawman argument IMO.

 

[Divorced w 3]

Can I, yes, am I as interested in it as I thought, no. Prefer greatly the fabric of a real relationship

 

[CornbreadFed]

Except in almost no case what you described actually accurate as to why they didn't have kids, but keep believing whatever fantasy you are creating in your own mind.

A woman's urge to procreate at a certain age is one of the strongest instincts humans have. There is little positive to be taken against a woman that doesn't pay attention to her natural instincts.

There is also nothing to give credit for for dating losers for 25 years...Again. Tigers don't change their stripes.

And this doesn't even mention the risk of autism and other birth defects that rise exponentially after age 35 that women are subjecting their kids to by waiting

so you are telling me that it is impossible for a rational woman to analyze her current selection of men as undesirable to have a kid with and hold her hand for something betterPlus, I am only talking about fertile women under 35.

That natural desire for a woman to have kids also comes with other great traits that us guys desire(caring, nurturing, supporting).

Not all, but the majority of women that don't want kids will be career focused and score lower in the areas of caring, nurturing, and supporting. There are rare exceptions.

Not wanting kids could also mean they haven’t found the right guy to have kids with. I bet you they wouldn’t have any problems having kids with Brad Pitt or Micheal B. Jordan. Hypergamy or not, nobody wants to settle with someone below their league unless they are fixated on power and control.

Even if the single mom is more nurturing, caring, and supporting, her kid will always be the priority in her life. Career focused women can be seduced by the right type of guy easily and fix her priorities.

 

[The Duke]

so you are telling me that it is impossible for a rational woman to analyze her current selection of men as undesirable to have a kid with and hold her hand for something betterPlus, I am only talking about fertile women under 35.



Not wanting kids could also mean they haven’t found the right guy to have kids with. I bet you they wouldn’t have any problems having kids with Brad Pitt or Micheal B. Jordan. Hypergamy or not, nobody wants to settle with someone below their league unless they are fixated on power and control.

Even if the single mom is more nurturing, caring, and supporting, her kid will always be the priority in her life. Career focused women can be seduced by the right type of guy easily and fix her priorities.

Cornbread, you still have some miles to travel.

 

[Dr.Suave]

hobby that attracts women

What´s your hobby?

 

[Dr.Suave]

Change my mind....you can't.

That works both ways. Single moms is one of those topics on sosuave where nobody change anyone´s mind.

When I was single, I missed out on a lot of puzzy because I stay away from single moms. No regrets yet. If I was older or I was a single dad, I would probably feel different.