Bros before hoes? Bullsh!t!

[Jariel]

I had an interesting chat with an old ex today and found out that she and my best friend made out only a couple of days after we broke up and that they almost had sex, except he couldn't get it up.

I remember being suspicious at the time, because I knew she got drunk and he offered her a place to stay ("as a friend" of course) and that's when he tried his luck. He swore nothing had and nothing would ever happen. He swore he was a loyal friend and was looking out for me because he knew I was really upset. He also gave me some advice about keeping my distance from her and breaking contact. Good advice indeed, but I didn't know it came with an ulterior motive so he could get in there.

Of course, she was a slvt for going along with it and being drunk is no excuse, but for someone who I considered my best friend to do that, to look me in the eye and lie to me and manipulate me when I was at my lowest, then to call himself a best friend and say he thought of me as a brother...well you can't get much lower than that!

It was in the past, I have no feelings at all for this girl now and it doesn't actually upset me, so I can let it go and move one, but it has made me very very cautious about this guy.

Don't expect loyalty from male friends when there's a woman in play, they can betray you as quickly as anyone else.

 

[Sean O]

You're right about one thing: you can never know for sure if somebody can be trusted or not. You may be able to get as far a being 99% certain of their trustworthiness, but objectively speaking, that remaining 1% will never happen.

Of course, living your life in constant distrist of people is a miserable way to exist. That's why I prefer to assume the best in people and to give them the benefit of the doubt. You'll never form bonds with ANYONE if you distrust them right off the bat; it just creates a major negative vibe. Rather than expecting people to prove their trustworthiness to me, I wait for people to prove to me that they're NOT trustworthy. And until they do that, I just focus on having a good time, yeah?

 

[Jariel]

Of course, living your life in constant distrist of people is a miserable way to exist. That's why I prefer to assume the best in people and to give them the benefit of the doubt. You'll never form bonds with ANYONE if you distrust them right off the bat; it just creates a major negative vibe. Rather than expecting people to prove their trustworthiness to me, I wait for people to prove to me that they're NOT trustworthy. And until they do that, I just focus on having a good time, yeah?

Good attitude and I agree. I do feel betrayed, but it was in the past and hasn't done me any harm. But just like I do with women, I'll exercise a healthy amount of caution in future.

 

[DJDamage]

First off I wouldn't take whatever she said to you in face value. Scorned women have been known to lie and break friendship between men.

Second of your friend is an oppertuinistic indvidual like you and me. I am sure he wanted to bang her a long time ago when the two of you were together but didn't step his bound and that would have been worse. Most men don't think of their consequences when there is an oppertuinity for an easy sex but rather they think about the consequences later. Obviously if she would become his girlfriend, you couldn't have hung around him.

I wouldn't blame my friend for wanting to bang a chick I broke up with but I would lose respect for him (due to his weakness) and not fully trust him again.

 

[Captain Obvious]

I wouldn't blame my friend for wanting to bang a chick I broke up with

I would. He's your friend, man. I would never, ever have sex with a girl that my friend had feelings for without his permission. Hell, I've been in that situation before. My friend's ex was hitting on me at a party, and I knew I could've easily gotten in her pants if I wanted. But I turned her down.

I mean, I don't think one little incident like that should ruin a friendship, but I do think that's a pretty fvcked up thing to do. It shouldn't end it, but you should let him know that something like that DID do damage to the friendship. It's a trust thing. Chew him out for it, and make him apologize. If he doesn't see what's wrong with it, explain why you're pissed. If he doesn't care, then he's truly not your friend anymore.

 

[DJDamage]

I would. He's your friend, man. I would never, ever have sex with a girl that my friend had feelings for without his permission. Hell, I've been in that situation before. My friend's ex was hitting on me at a party, and I knew I could've easily gotten in her pants if I wanted. But I turned her down.

I mean, I don't think one little incident like that should ruin a friendship, but I do think that's a pretty fvcked up thing to do. It shouldn't end it, but you should let him know that something like that DID do damage to the friendship. It's a trust thing. Chew him out for it, and make him apologize. If he doesn't see what's wrong with it, explain why you're pissed. If he doesn't care, then he's truly not your friend anymore.

What would blaming do?! nothing. The damage has been done. Suppose your friend had a hot girl you always wanted to fvck and he dumps her and she ends up running to your arms all horny and wants to fvck you, given that situation many men would jump all over that thing (they may say they won't but place them in a situation like that and most will fail including some of you here on sosuave or even me since it is a hypothetical situation). The difference is that those who do not sleep with her, are the strong loyal kind that you can trust. No chewing out or making the guy appologized changed the fact that he was weak and wasn't thinking stright. He would probably still be my friend but he would not be as close as he was before. If he however fvcked the girl I was with, they both be out of my life.

 

[( . )( . )]

but for someone who I considered my best friend to do that, to look me in the eye and lie to me and manipulate me when I was at my lowest, then to call himself a best friend and say he thought of me as a brother...well you can't get much lower than that!

You really are a dipsh!t, what proof do you have he honestly doesnt think of you as a brother? Because he was horny is the best you could come up with.

I personally would not only give him my blessing I would give him some pointers about what to look out for with her. I think you have a long way to go Jariel. I suspect you wouldnt be a very good friend at all anyway with your self limiting mentality, hes probably better off.

Understand I'm not saying this out of spite, I just cant believe how different my thinking is to yours. It seems so backward.

 

[THE_ADDMAN]

Integrity is very important to me.

My best buddy of 15 years has become really flaky recently. he will happily break plans with me, or be very late (an hour or more. record is 6 hours) if he can get laid by his gf.

He spends 5-6 days a week with her, then on the weekend, when its guy time, he'll still drop whatever we're doing and leave to go see his gf for 20 minutes (when shes on break from work). then he'll leave a few hours later to pick her up from work. its sad.

 

[SamePendo]

Here you posted something that isn't quite following the same school of thought, Jariel.

If this guy friend of yours and you have this verbal agreement on some chick, you two should go through with it (although it sure is some way of lack of confidence), if not, why not go for the lay with whichever b!tch there is in the way?

 

[Jariel]

First off I wouldn't take whatever she said to you in face value. Scorned women have been known to lie and break friendship between men.

True, but she wasn't scorned and she basically just confirmed what I already suspected and assumed I knew.

I personally would not only give him my blessing I would give him some pointers about what to look out for with her. I think you have a long way to go Jariel. I suspect you wouldnt be a very good friend at all anyway with your self limiting mentality, hes probably better off.

If he wanted to score with her a month or two later, I would have given him my blessing and some advice, but I was handling the break up badly at the time. He knew I was depressed over her and he lied, manipulated and pulled all this "nice guy" behaviour on me to try and get me out of the picture.

Even if you take the woman out of the situation, that's the work of a real snake there. I'd be ashamed of myself if I ever treated anybody like that.

We definitely do think VERY differently Titman and will never see eye to eye on anything!

 

[Jariel]

Here you posted something that isn't quite following the same school of thought, Jariel.

If this guy friend of yours and you have this verbal agreement on some chick, you two should go through with it (although it sure is some way of lack of confidence), if not, why not go for the lay with whichever b!tch there is in the way?

It was more than a verbal agreement about a chick in my case; it was my ex girlfriend and we had only just broken up. But even then it was the way he lied and manipulated me at my lowest that bothers me most about his actions.

 

[Jariel]

I could ruin this friend's current relationship and get my own back easily enough, but I take more pride in rising above it and understanding where he was coming from.

I know that this friend was always jealous of me because I was the guy who always got the women and he was like my comedian sidekick. He's like the typical desperate guy who comes here looking for advice on manipulating women so part of me understands why he sunk to that.

 

[( . )( . )]

Even if you take the woman out of the situation, that's the work of a real snake there. I'd be ashamed of myself if I ever treated anybody like that.

The point is he should never have had to. It was your shortcomings that forced him to behave in such a manner.

Your depression and handling the breakup badly has nothing to do with his mateship toward you or wanting to fvck this woman does it? You made it all intertwined.

but I take more pride in rising above it and understanding where he was coming from.

But your not, your venting here and have contempt for him still.

 

[Jariel]

The point is he should never have had to. It was your shortcomings that forced him to behave in such a manner.

Your depression and handling the breakup badly has nothing to do with his mateship toward you or wanting to fvck this woman does it? You made it all intertwined.

In an "every man for himself" scenario I couldn't fault the guy. But those scenarios shouldn't exist between friends. It doesn't matter if I handled the break up wrong or if I was crying and writing her love poems, a true friend wouldn't take advantage of my depression and naivety.

When it comes down to it, he put a chick before his friend. He knew if I found out it would have hurt me and ruin our friendship, yet he went ahead.

Just out of curiosity, do you think it would be fair for a friend to go for your girlfriend while you are together? Your argument seems to suggest so.

But your not, your venting here and have contempt for him still.

Venting yes, but I am not seeking revenge nor looking to lay his girlfriend (who is actually very hot).

 

[( . )( . )]

Just out of curiosity, do you think it would be fair for a friend to go for your girlfriend before you broke up? Your argument seems to suggest so.

I'm not arguing with you. Anyway funny you should mention that and I will tell you in all honesty I dont think I would anymore. I doubt I could even muster up enough emotion needed to get jealous with her and angry at him if I even wanted to.

Knowing what I do now it would seem ridiculous and I would only be lying to myself.

The weird thing is I'm as of late starting to feel some tinge of regret and sadness for all the bfs and husbands who have been at home while I've gamed or banged their partners. I know it doesnt make sense if you understand the female component but the total obliviousness and bubble these guys (most guys) are in is often somewhat troubling to me.

 

[insanity]

i remember me and i friend were heading out west for work and we were going to be away for 3 months. when we were leaving my friends girlfriend started crying saying she would miss him and call him everyday. then one of our friends that was staying home said don't worry man i'll take care of her and make sure she's alright. my good friend believing that she was in good hands and nothing would happen....it did.

the phone calls became less frequent. she started letting him go fast on the phone. she didn't say i love you's when she et him go. he knew something was up. then finally she broke up with him. then one day i called up a friend to see how things were at home and he said he didn't know my friends ex girlfriend was dating the other friend that said he would take care of her. after i told my friend he made a trip home and kicked that guys azz. did he deserve it, yes he did.

they had been hooking up after we had left to work. i would never put trust in a friend especially when a woman is involved.

 

[dynamicallyidle]

sad. jariel and insanity, both of you. sad

i remember me and i friend were heading out west for work and we were going to be away for 3 months. when we were leaving my friends girlfriend started crying saying she would miss him and call him everyday. then one of our friends that was staying home said don't worry man i'll take care of her and make sure she's alright. my good friend believing that she was in good hands and nothing would happen....it did.

the phone calls became less frequent. she started letting him go fast on the phone. she didn't say i love you's when she et him go. he knew something was up. then finally she broke up with him. then one day i called up a friend to see how things were at home and he said he didn't know my friends ex girlfriend was dating the other friend that said he would take care of her. after i told my friend he made a trip home and kicked that guys azz. did he deserve it, yes he did.

they had been hooking up after we had left to work. i would never put trust in a friend especially when a woman is involved.

 

[jonwon]

I had an interesting chat with an old ex today and found out that she and my best friend made out only a couple of days after we broke up and that they almost had sex, except he couldn't get it up.

I remember being suspicious at the time, because I knew she got drunk and he offered her a place to stay ("as a friend" of course) and that's when he tried his luck. He swore nothing had and nothing would ever happen. He swore he was a loyal friend and was looking out for me because he knew I was really upset. He also gave me some advice about keeping my distance from her and breaking contact. Good advice indeed, but I didn't know it came with an ulterior motive so he could get in there.

Of course, she was a slvt for going along with it and being drunk is no excuse, but for someone who I considered my best friend to do that, to look me in the eye and lie to me and manipulate me when I was at my lowest, then to call himself a best friend and say he thought of me as a brother...well you can't get much lower than that!

It was in the past, I have no feelings at all for this girl now and it doesn't actually upset me, so I can let it go and move one, but it has made me very very cautious about this guy.

Don't expect loyalty from male friends when there's a woman in play, they can betray you as quickly as anyone else.

Sorry to hear man, but as posted its gone now, rise over it.

I think alot of men have been here before your not alone on this, but GL to them is what you need to adopt, hey it did not work out, the best thing you can do is give them your blessing and move on.

As for rising above it and becoming a better man, well its one sided, even if you become as great as you can and not let this effect you, it does not say how it effects your mates.

Personnally i would not trust a guy to get to this stage, but the fault is not on his shoulders only, it is on the womens too and yours.

There are 3 loops in the scenario not just one, i.e. your mates.

So learn from it move on, choose your mates more wisely, but most importantly see where your shortcoming where and helped orchastrate this and you may actually find you had a very big role in it to some degree.

Also lets get something cleared up, the guy fuc*ed her, trust me on this!

It would have been far easier if he would have just come out with it, since it makes the guy wonder 'did he' didn't he' but in the end it really does not matter anyway, it did not work out. time to get over it.

As for trusting mates, i would like to value mates around, but even i understand in the wrong set of cirumstances and situations even the most solid mates would be hard pressed to not go there and i mean with the wrong set of circumstances.

Ideally we want to be able to trust out mates, but its not really our mates we need to trust in the end, if you have the right women, it really does not matter what your mates are doing.

If she did not get it from the mate, i guarantee she would get it from some-place else anyway, so whats the point having effect you?

Yes your mate gave into weakness, but the sad thing is the opportunity was there, this in itself is the bad thing, not neccassarily what your mate did.


Now i have left mates for this stuff, but these where extream situtions, i.e. i was working unsociable hours and one of my mates took it on him to game the women i was with, do i blame him, yes he did it with intent! but at the end of the day, it would have been much better if the women would have come back and stated 'your mate is trying it on' she did not so it made me reflect and try to ensure the next women states 'your mate tried it on' and in that i can trust her. I did not consider having lost a mate at the time, i considered having a very lucky escape since he got her pregnent e.t.c (found out she was wanting a kid, scary stuff).

With the above i tried to stay friends with them, but the constant Shi* tests they throw and the guy wanting to feel superior kind-a got to me, if you have tried to remain friends after something like that you can almost understand, it was like a mission to try to effect me. On one side the women stating in subtle ways, look what i have got and on the other the guy with the attitude of 'i have your girl and i am keeping hold of her'. I found it comical and annoying, so i had to move on.

Not trusting your mates with your girl is a very wrong frame to have.

 

[Lust]

Sorry to hear man, but as posted its gone now, rise over it.

I think alot of men have been here before your not alone on this, but GL to them is what you need to adopt, hey it did not work out, the best thing you can do is give them your blessing and move on.

As for rising above it and becoming a better man, well its one sided, even if you become as great as you can and not let this effect you, it does not say how it effects your mates.

Personnally i would not trust a guy to get to this stage, but the fault is not on his shoulders only, it is on the womens too and yours.

There are 3 loops in the scenario not just one, i.e. your mates.

So learn from it move on, choose your mates more wisely, but most importantly see where your shortcoming where and helped orchastrate this and you may actually find you had a very big role in it to some degree.

Also lets get something cleared up, the guy fuc*ed her, trust me on this!

It would have been far easier if he would have just come out with it, since it makes the guy wonder 'did he' didn't he' but in the end it really does not matter anyway, it did not work out. time to get over it.

As for trusting mates, i would like to value mates around, but even i understand in the wrong set of cirumstances and situations even the most solid mates would be hard pressed to not go there and i mean with the wrong set of circumstances.

Ideally we want to be able to trust out mates, but its not really our mates we need to trust in the end, if you have the right women, it really does not matter what your mates are doing.

If she did not get it from the mate, i guarantee she would get it from some-place else anyway, so whats the point having effect you?

Yes your mate gave into weakness, but the sad thing is the opportunity was there, this in itself is the bad thing, not neccassarily what your mate did.
I did not consider having lost a mate at the time, i considered having a very lucky escape since he got her pregnent e.t.c (found out she was wanting a kid, scary stuff).


Now i have left mates for this stuff, but these where extream situtions, i.e. i was working unsociable hours and one of my mates took it on him to game the women i was with, do i blame him, yes he did it with intent! but at the end of the day, it would have been much better if the women would have come back and stated 'your mate is trying it on' she did not so it made me reflect and try to ensure the next women states 'your mate tried it on' and in that i can trust her. Not trusting your mates with your girl is a very wrong frame to have.

Nice post mate, you broke it down, and pointed out some more deeper issues that were hiding.

I guess alot of it also depends on how well you Gamed your girl. If you had done really well, she wouldn't think for half a second in risking losing you.

 

[musclyjerk]

I would eject him from my life and call and end to the 'friendship' - and no ammount of pleading or appologies would suffice.

You have to weed out arseh*les, even if they're your friends, from your life, when they expose themselves.

My closest friend of 15 years started fooling around with a chick whom I had a history with once I gave him my blessing to persue what he wanted with her, but then he kept breaking plans with us for her, constantly.

Due to the constant f*ck offs he displayed I told him exactly what I thought of him and his behaivour and that the friendship was over - he is no longer a part of our group and has zero friends.

The Muscly Jerk