bpd bullet dodged, basic crazy ***** . . . or simply low interest?

[Lolobaba]

A story originally posted on r/TheRedPill. It's long, to include every detail I recall. Reposted here as there seems to be a wealth of experience on the subject. I've been with a few women but this one was certainly 'different', and even months after, I'm still trying to figure out what the hell happened. After breaking up, I read a lot on cluster b and a lightbulb went off, but perhaps there's confirmation bias. Is this girl a dodged bullet, or was I not enough to keep her interested? Either way, the relationship was unhealthy and had to end, but when I started reading about relevant psychology, I kept asking questions.



red flags I noticed which lead me to believe she's BPD:

• very attractive and seductive, outgoing and social, 'life of the party'; could have anyone she wanted, but went for me like a homing missile
  
  
• initially, script was flipped: she came on strong, I rejected her, and she pursued me like a woman on a mission (could be a cultural thing, as Japanese treat sex like a recreational activity) . . . later, when I committed to her and got close, she pushed me away - fear of abandonment?
  
  
• though she'd previously been in a relationship for four years, told me our initial encounter was her 'first special sweet time' with a guy
  
  
• script flipped again: at the beginning, I was confident and aloof, she was insecure and clingy . . . by the end, I was an emotional wreck and she said she 'felt nothing special'; began to feel like I was insane and losing my connection with reality
  
  
• idealization stage felt like a spiritual experience; 'soul mate'; gut feeling of 'too good to be true'; eventual push/pull dynamic --> devaluation --> discard; made me feel the highest highs and lowest lows of my life
  
  
• substance abuse issues: meth, cocaine, mdma, polydrug user, always smoking cigarettes, aggressive and dissociative whilst drunk
  
  
• tattoos and piercings, frequent changes of hairstyle; self-image problems
  
  
• narcissistic, grandiose: 'I'm the best party animal', but also low self-esteem
  
  
• social media attention *****, but I suppose that's all women these days
  
  
• sob story about being unlovable as a 'junkie'
  
  
• rapid mood swings, shouting rages whilst intoxicated
  
  
• strained relationship with family, especially father
  
  
• lots of male friends, not so many female friends
  
  
• almost single minded obsession with psytrance and associated cult scene at festivals, tying into the polydrug use; to me, that 'music' is repetitive gash, but I can see the appeal if one's objective is to escape reality
  
  
• double standards: very jealous of me with other women, but when I expressed jealousy, 'don't worry'; sensitive to criticism and judgement, but judgmental herself; told me to 'live in the moment' and forget past memories, then brought up negative memories from the past to justify breaking up with me
  
  
• loved people who are 'full of compassion'
  
  
• blamed breakups on exes 'making rules to tie me down'
  
  
• extremely sensitive to her own feelings but oblivious to the feelings of others
  
  
• magical thinking; believed in horoscopes, fortune telling, and Indian astrology
  
  
• immediately after breaking up said, 'you didn't do anything wrong, let's be friends' . . . then, a couple of months later, when I'd given her a piece of my mind and left her town, found a way to blame me for everything and refused to take responsibility for her actions
  
  
• projected her faults onto me; accused me of being selfish and inconsiderate
  
  
• words her family used to describe her, despite the language barrier, upon first meeting them: 'selfish', 'dangerous, '****ing crazy'
  
  
• words she used to describe herself: 'careless', 'crazy', 'don't know my own feelings', 'demon inside me', 'junkie', 'selfish', 'childish', 'difficult', 'maybe I have mental problems more than normal people', 'I hate myself'; blushed when I called her 'impulsive'
  

---

I discovered The Red Pill after a breakup with a woman who I thought was my 'unicorn'. We met whilst travelling, which increases the unlikelihood and uniqueness of the tale.

After graduating from university, the rat race didn't appeal to me, so I embarked on long travels, backpacking around India and Southeast Asia. Meeting travelling women for one night stands and short term flings was common. I had fun, never got attached, and didn't think too much of any of them. A year of backpacking ran down my cash reserves and I decided to stay in Vietnam to teach English. After a year there, I returned to India in 2015 and went on a cycling odyssey, covering about 2000 kilometers in five months. I lived as a nomad with total freedom, no work schedule and no commitments. Pedal power was my meditation, and provided the independence to travel as I pleased. Living in a tent in the jungle and in temples and ashrams helped me to learn survival skills. Riding a bicycle for six to eight hours every day in tropical heat improved my fitness. I disconnected from social media and the internet and felt clarity in my mind. I focused on living in the moment and interactions with local people in places most tourists never visit.

The tourist visa for India lasts six months. For the final month, I decided to finish cycling and go north, to the Himalaya. My plan was to relax, smoke local hash, and enjoy the scenery. This is where the story changes, with a spontaneous encounter.

At a famous cultural site in the Punjab, I was directed to the foreigners' accomodation room. It had more foreign faces than I had seen in months. Out of the crowd, I made eye contact with a Japanese girl. We eye****ed and exchanged smiles. The next morning she approached and introduced herself. Let's call her 'Wako' (pun intended). She had the most beautiful face I'd ever seen, and could have anyone she wanted, but was drawn by her perception of me as the highest value male in the room. She liked Indian culture and smoking ganja, and played chess with me even though she wasn't interested in the game. I thought I'd hit the jackpot. Wako invited me to a party in another town. We flirted and began travelling together. Over the next few days, she propositioned me, saying 'we should sleep in the same bed tonight'. Half out of disbelief and half good game, I shrugged her off. My indifference was attractive; she was hot and exotic and used to being chased. When I did not give a **** about the outcome, she sought my validation and increased her pursuit.

When I was sick one morning, she brought me Japanese food, which I thought was very kind. In hindsight, I realized every nice thing she did was with the expectation of getting something in return. She never did anything genuinely selfless.

We reached the town where the party was to be held, and there were no guesthouse rooms available. I set up my tent and socialized with the group. Eventually only Wako remained and said, 'I hope I don't bother you to sleep together tonight'. I couldn't refuse her any longer.

The next night the party began. Wako revealed a tinfoil wrapper with mdma; 'partying' meant drugs. This was the first red flag. I hadn't taken any since university but at the time felt '**** it', and indulged as she offered. Wako had a 'free' ticket from a guy she'd met in Goa – second red flag. Apparently this guy was 'in love' with her, and she spent a few afternoons away from me talking to him to let him know she wasn't interested. Told me that she has trouble saying 'no', and sometimes says yes just to be polite. A characteristic of Japanese people, apparently. I didn't realize at the time eventually she'd do the same thing to me. She said, 'too many people in this town know me', which activated my white knight complex and made me think I should whisk her away from there. She said she had a problem with telling the truth, and realized she needed to be honest, (in hindsight, total bull****).

We attended the first night of the party together. It was typical psytrance bait; repetitive music on a sound system not optimized for it, and dreadlocked hippies off their heads. After the first night I decided not to attend and let her go on her way while I stayed at the guesthouse getting stoned with my buddies. The party lasted for four nights. It finished at 10pm and Wako would return to sleep next to me at 2am, clenching her jaw from repeatedly taking ecstasy. She either didn't know or didn't care about replenishing depleted serotonin. Not particularly attractive, and the third red flag.

After the party was finished, I offered to take Wako with me on a trip to an isolated valley near Tibet, to get to know each other better and give her some time to detox. She agreed to join me and we spent the next few weeks taking local buses, visiting Buddhist monasteries, and walking in the mountains. I handled logistics and planning, led, and she followed. In this controlled environment, just the two of us alone and sober, she was a lovely person. I began to get emotionally attached. On one of our walks I told her that I'd go with her anywhere. She smiled and nodded in agreement, but didn't say much. This was my first mistake, catching feelings and expressing too much interest early in the relationship.

Our visas finished at nearly the same time, and we took a 4x4 to reach the final town on the roadtrip before we'd separate and go to Delhi to depart. Everyone in our group had diarrhea due to impure food and water; in the car, Wako complained about stomach pain and asked me, sitting in the front, to switch seats. I said no, told her to be patient, as I had been the same way previously and knew the road surface would soon be smooth. She cried in the backseat and told me later that this was 'traumatic' for her. (I read that borderlines love you madly, until the first time you disappoint them in any way. Post-breakup, she referred to this moment as the reason why I wasn't a nice guy and she didn't like me; see below)

 

[Lolobaba]

[continued]

I was going to France to visit another girl and Wako was returning to Japan. As we hung out in our guesthouse room, Wako sat me down and said that she needed to tell me something. She then dropped a bomb. She said she had 'demons', and that for the last five years, she had used methamphetamine. A giant blaring siren of a red flag; (I read that borderlines reveal personal information at seemingly random times). I had a moment of cognitive dissonance, thinking of the 'faces of meth' videos. I looked at her face – she had all her teeth and was the most beautiful woman I'd ever seen – and was in disbelief. She assured me that the meth use was in the past, and I was impressed with her honesty. To this day, I still don't understand how someone so gorgeous could use that for five years and maintain her looks. Probably because she didn't smoke it, but snorted. I realized later that although she didn't display any visible effects, the mental effects were there – paranoia, depression, the inability to experience pleasure.



We said a tearful goodbye and I flew to Paris. Immediately, Wako began texting me, saying how much she missed me looking at our photos together. I told her I missed her too, liked her, and that we should try to meet again. I went about my business in France and enjoyed spending time with the French girl, whose facebook posts of us together made Wako jealous.



Through continued contact, we decided that I would get another English teaching job and come to Japan. Wako and I did the long-distance relationship for six months. I asked questions to learn more about her like 'what are your goals in life?', to which she answered, 'I don't know yet. I want to go to some festivals and a solar eclipse party. Do you know x trance artist?' . . . 'What's your biggest fear in life?' 'I'm a junkie. Who wants a junkie girl?' It became clear from our communication that she relapsed on meth 'because of my junkie friends'. (Early sign of taking no responsibility for her actions.) I told her that although her choices were her own, I wouldn't tolerate being around anyone using that drug. She agreed to stop, but qualified with, 'but I don't promise not to use other stuff at festivals'. This made me uneasy, as Wako clearly had an enduring relationship not only with me, but with drugs and partying. (Later on, told me she'd tried heroin, lsd, dmt, pretty much every drug in the book.) As I was in Europe, she would write saying, 'I'm in a ****ing weird situation right now, talk to me'. When I said that I was busy, couldn't talk and would get back to her later, she accused me: 'oh so now you don't care about me?' Later she'd say, 'ignore what I wrote before, I was being crazy, didn't know what I was saying'; (dissociation?). She hooked me into being captain-save-a-ho, and I fell for it hard. At home, after the relapse, I asked my best mate what I should do about this chick, and he said, 'don't go, she's an addict, she'll always love getting high more than she'll love you.' Should've listened to him.



When I'd met her, she had only one noticeable body modification; a piercing below the lip. In the time we were separated, she got seven tattoos of sacred geometry. I asked her what they meant and she said, 'nothing, I just like them.' A bit impulsive, I thought. Another red flag. At one point, Wako phoned me crying and said that although she still wanted to be with me, she didn't have confidence to wait and keep her love. She said that she was still friends with her ex of five years, a Japanese guy with whom she had travelled a lot. She said she 'didn't love him anymore'. Upon review, I felt I was just a rebound. (She met the ex a few months after we broke up, and I hope he was smart enough to tell her to piss off.)



After six months of separation, I went to Tokyo to meet her. Wako took me to her hometown in the 'inaka', or countryside of Japan. On the first night we attended a trance party at the solitary club in the prefecture. Again we indulged in mdma and Wako took some cocaine. The club had a one-time entry policy, meaning we couldn't go outside and back in. Wako found a guy to take us outside to smoke a joint and said, 'we're party people, we have special privilege'. This remark gave the impression that she was egotistical, like she's part of the 'in crowd' and revels in being above the rules. At the time, I could only think '****, I'm high. The laws are serious here; if we're caught holding, Wako will go free and I'll be deported'. It's not a good idea to mess around with drugs in Japan. I was fatigued from travelling, and after four hours of throbbing, cringe-inducing bass I asked Wako for her car keys to get some sleep. I told her to stay for the rest of the gig. As the morning light came, she returned to the car to drive us home in a stimulated state. Later on she told me that she wouldn't invite me to any more parties because it appeared that I didn't enjoy. It was true, the kind of music she likes I think sounds like ****. I suppose it can only be 'enjoyed' whilst tripping balls.



We slept off our hangovers all day and woke up the next evening. It was our first night together in her family's house. Wako prepared herself to go out again. I asked where she was going, and she said that she wanted to have dinner with a group of friends and the DJ from the gig the previous evening. I calmly objected, as I'd just flown around the world to see her, couldn't speak Japanese, and expected her to introduce me to her family. Wako was displeased but agreed to stay with us. It was a bad sign that on the first night in my new girlfriend's house in a foreign country, she didn't see the slightest thing wrong in leaving me with her family to go see somebody else she didn't even know.



Her family were nice suburban people and very welcoming to a foreigner dating their daughter. Though I couldn't communicate with them in their own language, they immediately made clear to me what they thought of Wako; that she was 'selfish, dangerous, and ****ing crazy'. I like to think of the best of people, but their warnings took me by surprise. Wako seemed to have a tumultuous relationship with her father, another red flag.



We proceeded to date for three months. We'd normally meet twice a week to have dinner and spend the night together. When I arrived in Japan, it was winter, so we visited an onsen in the mountains. Sex with an oriental goddess in a hot spring is something everyone should experience at least once. I don't have a licence, and Wako was always driving us, so I sensed that unconsciously, she was taking the lead. Due to my lack of language skills, she also took the lead in helping to set up utilities for my apartment. It had been two months since she'd stopped using meth, and I realized that Wako seemed depressed and was sometimes distant due to the stages of withdrawal.



Wako worked long hours at a factory and was often busy. I had just moved to a small town in Japan, and had few friends beside my coworkers. I asked her by text one evening to hang out, and she responded that she was busy at work, that I should be more considerate, and I should find more friends to hang out with. I understood that due to the circumstances, I became too reliant on her for social interaction. She perceived that I was making her my focus and pedestalizing her. I made an effort to get out to the one bar in town to meet more people, who told me that dating a Japanese girl as a foreigner can be fraught with difficulty.



About a week later, a fateful event happened. One night, Wako asked me to meet her at her house at midnight. She went drinking with friends in the prefectural capital. I cycled to her house at the agreed time, and she stood me up. I phoned and she didn't answer. The house was always left unlocked, so I went upstairs to wait for her. Wako's room was never very organized, with clothes and cosmetics and all manner of stuff carelessly left out. I noticed a notebook with a flight booking for the summer vacation. Wako was taking 12 days off to go to a festival in Europe to take drugs and listen to trance music, and didn't bother to discuss it or invite me. This was in addition to another festival in India for the spring vacation, coinciding with my birthday, which she had no problem skipping. I had known about the first festival as she had booked it before we began dating, but the second took me by surprise. I thought it was very inconsiderate of her to get drunk, stand me up, and plan two holidays without me. Any time a girl plans vacations without you, it's displaying loss of attraction. Wako returned four hours late, drunk and rambling something unintelligible, crouching down in the fetal position. We woke up the next morning and I lost frame: I cried as Wako stared at me. She apologized but was clearly horrified at my show of emotion. For Japanese, showing emotion is considered shameful. I was so upset about the disrespect of standing me up that I couldn't even mention I'd found her flight booking.



The next weekend I was working, and Wako went with a friend to a party in Kyoto. I told her via text that we needed to meet to discuss the summer, and she agreed to meet me the next day. On sunday morning she phoned to say that she had gotten drunk, lost her wallet, and couldn't meet me that day. It was at that point I determined that this girl was a mess when she drinks, unable to keep her **** together or honor her commitments. I wanted to speak in person about the summer plans and more broadly our direction as a couple, but Wako made herself unavailable with her irresponsibility. It was only later I realized she was doing this to avoid me, and wasn't in the mood to have any serious conversation about our relationship.

 

[Lolobaba]

[continued]

I then made a fatal mistake, which post-RP me regrets: as Wako was unavailable to speak in person, I began texting her asking about the summer. I offered to go on a holiday together, to which she replied, 'sorry I already have plans, I can't take any extra time off to travel with you'. She said that these festivals were her plan before we met. I responded that I had also had plans and changed them for us to be together. She explained that she needed 'me time', these were her favorite events, and that I should respect her 'important hobby', as if taking drugs and dancing is a hobby. (I never saw her read a book, play a sport, or do anything that qualifies as a hobby.) I texted paragraphs, saying that she was being selfish and disrespectful, and didn't appreciate the fact that I'd moved around the world for her. I said I was displeased with her going off alone to get high and was uncomfortable with her putting herself in a situation to be chased by guys (which obviously she craves because women love validation). Of course all of this was true, and sets off the very reasonable mate-protecting instinct, but I should never have said so. She answered that I was right, saying 'I'm a selfish person, it's difficult to be with me.' She also said that she had broken up with her exes because they 'made rules to try to tie me down. I'm independent and a free spirit'. I didn't realize at the time, but this was textbook manipulation: making the selfish choice and trying to act like I was being unreasonable for calling her out on it.



I determined that I was not a priority, I was around for her convenience, she was not planning a future together, and that our needs as a couple were secondary to her own desires. I told her that if she didn't consider me more, I'd have no choice but to say goodbye. She said that she would, and hastily invited me to join her and a friend at a costume party in Osaka. Said that she'd forgotten to invite me (an obvious lie). At this point the relationship was essentially over; she'd already mentally decided to break up, but didn't have the stones to say it. Japanese girls are infamous for this, slowly drifting away and ghosting rather than having the unpleasant confrontation and direct communication that comes naturally to westerners. We went to the party together. I made sure to not smother her, made myself social with other people. At the end of the evening we left together and Wako said that I should return with her friend to our guesthouse while she went out to a bar for the evening. She was quite drunk and it wasn't the right time to talk, but I pursued her and tried to get her to speak to me. She screamed at me in drunken rage and stormed off to a taxi as I called her 'stupid' in Japanese. The next morning it was final: she texted saying, 'I don't know what happened last night, I just know I don't love you anymore'. Text breakup, kids stuff from a woman in her late 20s.



We met a week later in the daytime to talk, and I went full beta, explaining that I knew I pressured her over her vacation plans, should respect her 'independence', that I had come to her country for her and please can we compromise. She said she was sorry but she couldn't make me happy, and hated herself. I gave her a hug, told her to find satisfaction from within, and wished her well. I was fully in the throes of oneitis, and was heartbroken. I moved all the way to Japan, poured my heart out to this girl, gave her sympathy and compassion, and she **** all over me.



I realized that by confronting her about the holiday plans I had appeared jealous and needy and controlling, which is never attractive. I didn't feel like brushing it off and ignoring it was fair to me, as I'd be letting her dominate the relationship and making myself into a doormat. It made a difference that the vacations were to festivals; everybody knows what goes on there and a girl on drugs, who likes to 'live in the moment', and surrounded by strange **** will cheat, even if she doesn't intend to. She probably wouldn't cheat but I allowed my mind to run wild with the possibility, and displayed beta behavior. Making that plan put me in a 'no-win situation'; I could ignore it and let myself be walked all over, or I could call her out on it and demand she meet me halfway. Was this a giant, unwinnable **** test? My mistake was not seeing the writing on the wall and ending it sooner. After breaking up, I gave her a piece of my mind and she blamed me for everything, saying 'you didn't change seats for me in India and that's when I knew you weren't a nice guy'.



I suppose that while in our travel romance, it was spontaneous and there were no expectations. When I made the big step of moving around the world to be serious, Wako turned cold at the thought of commitment. It was always in the back of my mind that she was a 'party girl' with enduring drug addiction, and that she probably loved her ex with whom she'd been in a long term relationship.



She was very attractive, could speak English well, and was an adventurer, but at the same time selfish, manipulative, egotistical, drug-addicted, and stuck in the mental development stage of an attention-seeking child. I realized that I focused too much on her and not on myself. I learned a lot and certainly won't make the same mistakes again. It's definitely of utmost importance to properly vet someone before entering into a LTR. Since we broke up I moved out of her town to a larger city, got a new job, new friends, and have met more Japanese women, who are often gagging for foreign ****.



---



Through this experience, I've learned a lot about my own insecurities and codependent tendencies. Searching for answers on the internet turned me on to the Red Pill. Paradoxically, the pain of losing her has made me more like her; distrustful, seeing women as objects, etc. But it's also empowered me to take charge of my own life and improve myself. I'm jaded and now have a level of skepticism bordering on suspicion, which is something I'll have to work through and balance. I want to be vigilant and pay attention to the red flags, but I also want to give women a chance to prove themselves worthy.



So that's the story, your thoughts SS?

 

[GoodOne123]

NEW RECORD FOR LONGEST POST EVER MADE ON SOSUAVE


Haha. But to be honest I read the first few paragraphs, and it seems she's at least a little bit off. Obviously if someone admits to having mental problems what more proof do you need?

Now I admit, she's not full blown bpd horror story. But she does have a few signs which can't be ignored. The drugs, extreme mood swings, sht she said, etc.

My bpd was a bit more textbook. She self harmed, was abused, split personality at times, impulsive, lack of empathy. But even then, I can't say she was bpd for sure since I'm not a psychiatrist, but I sure as he'll can say there was something wrong with her, because it's obvious.

Now you know there's something wrong with her, so don't doubt yourself. Even in the unlikely case she's normal (yea right) she's not right for you. Why? Because from what I read she's not capable to be with a man who can commit and be happy with her. Do you really want to be with someone where you're flipping the script as you said, all the time? No. It's not healthy and it's stressful and a waste of life. Go invest in someone else more suitable to you.

If you two are so compatible, why aren't you two still together? It's because you're not compatible, and you need to move on.

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

Not gonna read all that. Don't have to. You were with a crazy and were overthinking it with her.

 

[SmooveMooves]

No one else here.... or anywhere for that matter is going to read this huge story. I did. It's quite interesting. I have a sort of envy for your free-spirit backpacking lifestyle. Would make for an interesting book.

A failed relationship is a failed leadership.

Resonate with the quote above. Whether she was BPD or not is irrelevant. In my opinion, I don't think she was. She was just from a different culture and feeling the affects of long-term drug use. The situation would've played out the same had she not been on drugs. Towards the end you behaved unattractively which was the polar opposite of you and Wako's initial interactions.

Look at it from Wako's point of view for a second: A mysterious foreigner who has the abundance and willpower to travel the world and live freely. He isn't desperate and doesn't sleep with me right when I offer -- he also doesn't mind drugs.

Now compare that with your behavior as the relationship progressed. Your true self began to show and the persona she built of you based on her first impressions begin to crack:

• When you told her you'd go with her anywhere | 'He seems more invested than me and we just met, hmm, I thought he had abundance.'
• When you didn't goto the trance party again | 'I thought he was just wanted to have fun and experience things.
• When you didn't want to stay home in her family house without her. | 'I thought he was a free spirit-- he can't figure something out?'
• When you cried to her | 'Wow this isn't the man I thought he was -- at ALL.'

Albeit the expectations are fanciful. If you could go back in time to replay somethings over, you could probably extend the relationship. But the outcome would have been similar. Here's why:

1. For one, you and Wako's lifestyles were too different. Initially you seemed similar because you both lived free and travelled together but time revealed the truth
2. Once you moved to Japan to be with her it was doomed. The power dynamic was heavily in her favor. You moved to her country for her. You relied on her for your social and basic needs and sacrificed this independence for her. You didn't have a license and she took you everywhere like you were her child. You even said it yourself, you felt she was taking the lead. She was.
3. She was a druggie. These relationships never work and if they do they aren't healthy. You can't play the captain savem role because it means you'r low value. Why would a high value man put up with foreign druggie chick when he could have better? The only time these relationships work is if the guy is a druggie just like her or her dealer.

Even if you didn't make all those mistakes chances are you would've have gotten tired of her or eventually slipped. Regardless, she is in the past now and it's time to move on and forget her. Completely. No more use in analyzing what went wrong and how and posting this story to boards.

She wasn't BPD, you just chose a shítty choice for a long-term girlfriend.

PS. you should write a book about your travels.

 

[Lolobaba]

Wako loved to say she was 'independent'. My way of interpreting that was 'inconsiderate and utterly self-centered'. She had some personality issues, probably not a full-blown bpd, but certainly some of the telltale signs, such as rapid mood swings and lack of empathy. I found myself asking, 'why is a girl this hot in her late 20s not attached?' It's becoming less traditional these days, but Japanese women are expected to marry by her age. She's about a year and a half older than I am, for what it's worth.

I am open minded about drugs, but the line is crossed with hard stuff. Psychedelics and pot and mdma in moderation are okay. It bothered me that this girl was into substances a lot heavier than anything I'd touch, and she seemed to have serious self-esteem issues relating to that. I didn't mind her going to the trance parties in principle; it's not my place to judge someone's interests. What made it unbearable was the balls on this chick to tell me I was being inconsiderate and selfish, then tell me she didn't have time or money to take a vacation together because she'd be busy taking drugs and listening to godawful music. I told her she misunderstood the word 'hobby'.

Yes, moving to Japan was the real kicker. In our first meeting, we were two foreigners in a third country where I'd had previous experience. In Japan, I was on her turf, in her social environment, with no language skills. I've travelled a lot in weird places but never moved for a girl before. Lesson learned, eh. I'm just trying to understand the broader psychological trends; this girl seemed to defy convention. Since we separated I moved to a bigger place, learned more Japanese, and have met more ladies. Adaptation to this culture is difficult; foreigners will never be considered Nihonjin. Despite all that, it's a great experience and a cool place to live.

And yes, a book is in the works with composite characters based on people I've met and the bizarre situations I've found myself in. There are about 400 pages scrawled in notebooks already.

 

[Julian]

you went full beta, never go full beta

 

[fastlife]

Cosign @SmooveMooves

Read your story and didn't get a sense she was BPD. Not to invalidate your experience--the bottom line is that she wasn't relationship material and, at her age, probably set in her ways (date younger!!!! lol). Drug use & addiction certainly aggravated things (and probably reinforced some of her narcissistic & histrionic tendencies)--but I don't think her behavior is all that out of range for a girl who you totally lost frame with.

Yes, moving to Japan was the real kicker. In our first meeting, we were two foreigners in a third country where I'd had previous experience. In Japan, I was on her turf, in her social environment, with no language skills. I've travelled a lot in weird places but never moved for a girl before. Lesson learned, eh. I'm just trying to understand the broader psychological trends; this girl seemed to defy convention. Since we separated I moved to a bigger place, learned more Japanese, and have met more ladies. Adaptation to this culture is difficult; foreigners will never be considered Nihonjin. Despite all that, it's a great experience and a cool place to live.

This. Moving with her to her native culture, which is foreign from your own, is giving her the maximum amount of frame possible. Add oneitis to that, and you would've been on a similar trajectory with any girl. If she had been more empathetic and less of a partier, it would've just been a much slower process. And, given what we know about her specifically, even if you'd held frame and brought her along on your journey (instead of centering your journey around her), I think your mileage would've been limited anyway unless you had met her a decade ago.

BUT it's an awesome story--and it sounds like it was keeping in line with your personality. Subconsciously, you probably didn't even want it to work out (which is why we get involved in these types of relationship to begin with); and subconsciously you probably needed to feel the emotions she provided you, even (especially) the more painful ones.

 

[exoskeletor]

Tats and piercings ? Meh okay
Drugs ? Cool you don't judge
Narcissistic and praising herself ? Delusional
Strained relationship with father ? Daddy issues, good lays
Double standards with women ? Controlling

HPD or something messed up for sure

I just posted about my own BPD experience. It was a nightmare and I'm pretty sure you might have some ptsd like symptoms even now considering the huge post you made

You might constantly think about her, just go NC. This might be the toughest thing to do if she was a waif, but she wasn't.
Her ultimate aim was to turn you beta and discard.

Which she did. Now armed with the redpill, you build yourself from scratch to the most alpha of alphas. It'll be way easier now, because after the ptsd like symptoms vanish, you'll become
stronger.

**** this *****, no guy deserves someone as ****ed up like her. Not even homeless joe

 

[SmooveMooves]

Cosign @SmooveMooves

Read your story and didn't get a sense she was BPD. Not to invalidate your experience--the bottom line is that she wasn't relationship material and, at her age, probably set in her ways (date younger!!!! lol). Drug use & addiction certainly aggravated things (and probably reinforced some of her narcissistic & histrionic tendencies)-- but I don't think her behavior is all that out of range for a girl who you totally lost frame with.



This. Moving with her to her native culture, which is foreign from your own, is giving her the maximum amount of frame possible. Add oneitis to that, and you would've been on a similar trajectory with any girl. If she had been more empathetic and less of a partier, it would've just been a much slower process. And, given what we know about her specifically, even if you'd held frame and brought her along on your journey (instead of centering your journey around her), I think your mileage would've been limited anyway unless you had met her a decade ago

I had to quote @fastlife because this is really important. The important bits are in red.

A lot of people are gonna get on here and just tell you 'yup, she was BPD.' but that's wrong because that takes the blame off of YOU. The relationship went as it did because of the way you behaved. Granted she wasn't that great of a person given the drugs and selfishness but chalking it up to personality issues means you lose the lesson the experience was supposed to teach you. We all have narcissistic and egotistical tendencies some more than others. Being a shítty person does not mean you have a disorder and based off your story and what you described of her it sounds like -- again I repeat:

She was a shítty person and you made bad decisions.

 

[btownbuck2012]

To the OP,

I've also learned the hard way that no matter how good your initial impressions are with a woman you are pursuing romantically, or hell not even just your initial impressions but the overall way your present yourself to her and how she thinks of you; when that starts to get replaced with more and more weak type of behaviors it's only a matter of time before she'll kick you to the curb. Women will tolerate a-lot of sh*t but they will never indefinitely tolerate an emotionally weak man, period. If a woman isn't your mother, grandma, sister or wife, there are very few reasons you should be shedding a tear for her, especially not because of the way she does or doesn't feel about you.

As much as women drone on about how they want a man to treasure her and love her with all his heart, they know deep down how ridiculous that is. Women know, even though they would NEVER admit this, that they shouldn't be taken seriously. That's why feminism is the biggest sh*t test of them all.

But again, it's a learning lesson and we'll be better Men moving forward because of it.

On to the next one.

 

[YawataNoKami]

That girl has more red flags than a Double Dare obstacle course.

 

[christoff522]

Wako loved to say she was 'independent'. My way of interpreting that was 'inconsiderate and utterly self-centered'. She had some personality issues, probably not a full-blown bpd, but certainly some of the telltale signs, such as rapid mood swings and lack of empathy. I found myself asking, 'why is a girl this hot in her late 20s not attached?' It's becoming less traditional these days, but Japanese women are expected to marry by her age. She's about a year and a half older than I am, for what it's worth.

When you meet an older Japanese woman who is single, they tend to be desperate to find a husband. That in itself will bring up big personality issues. She was probably fighting her culture, and her own mental issues, the desire to fit in, and the desire to continue to be that free spirit. The tattoos, piercings etc indicate this.

I am open minded about drugs, but the line is crossed with hard stuff. Psychedelics and pot and mdma in moderation are okay. It bothered me that this girl was into substances a lot heavier than anything I'd touch, and she seemed to have serious self-esteem issues relating to that. I didn't mind her going to the trance parties in principle; it's not my place to judge someone's interests. What made it unbearable was the balls on this chick to tell me I was being inconsiderate and selfish, then tell me she didn't have time or money to take a vacation together because she'd be busy taking drugs and listening to godawful music. I told her she misunderstood the word 'hobby'.

You have to remember that Japan has the highest suicide rate going.
For people introduced to western culture with traditional Japanese culture looming, it's like Jekyll and Hyde.
She probably did feel you were being selfish, because you wanted a little woman to take care of, and were trying to fit her into your expectations. Obviously, she wasn't a traditional Japanese girl, and would never be able to be like that. Which is why her parents were badmouthing her.

Yes, moving to Japan was the real kicker. In our first meeting, we were two foreigners in a third country where I'd had previous experience. In Japan, I was on her turf, in her social environment, with no language skills. I've travelled a lot in weird places but never moved for a girl before. Lesson learned, eh. I'm just trying to understand the broader psychological trends; this girl seemed to defy convention. Since we separated I moved to a bigger place, learned more Japanese, and have met more ladies. Adaptation to this culture is difficult; foreigners will never be considered Nihonjin. Despite all that, it's a great experience and a cool place to live.

There you go, you have seen a different side to Japan now, of course foreigners will never be considered Japanese. You are not Japanese, and never will be. If you have kids in Japan with a Japanese girl they will be considered Japanese.
I am moving to Japan when I can afford it, but I am going for different reasons, I am going to live somewhere different, with the music I like, and a culture I am very interested in. I am talking to many girls including a Russian, but I don't think I could ever move to Russia just for her - despite how beautiful it is there.

It is good that you stayed there, and are experiencing it for what it is, without someone making all the decisions for you, and making you go crazy.

And yes, a book is in the works with composite characters based on people I've met and the bizarre situations I've found myself in. There are about 400 pages scrawled in notebooks already.

Thats awesome. Best of luck with that!

 

[Lolobaba]

A failed relationship is a failed leadership.

Resonate with the quote above. Whether she was BPD or not is irrelevant. In my opinion, I don't think she was. She was just from a different culture and feeling the affects of long-term drug use. The situation would've played out the same had she not been on drugs. Towards the end you behaved unattractively which was the polar opposite of you and Wako's initial interactions.

Despite her many issues, I agree with the assessment that she wasn't bpd, but a poor choice for a serious relationship. I am totally aware of the mistakes I made and was able to contemplate things from her perspective. Pretty sure she was incapable of seeing things from my point of view, or caring about it if she could. I agree that had certain things happened differently, it may have lasted longer, but was never going to sustain over the long term. It was hard to lead the relationship not only due to the circumstances of being on her turf, but for the fact that she was stubbornly against any compromise. Sure, a girl unconsciously wants to be led, but a 'free spirit' who takes being submissive as a hit to her ego is surely mindfvcking herself, no?

Subconsciously, you probably didn't even want it to work out (which is why we get involved in these types of relationship to begin with); and subconsciously you probably needed to feel the emotions she provided you, even (especially) the more painful ones.

Being aware of her issues from the start, I didn't view her as someone I'd end up with in the long term, especially considering her age. I thought we'd have some fun together for a while, and the experience in India was wonderful. Just turns out she couldn't be bothered to put any effort into it beyond wanting to jump into bed with me. I agree I needed to feel the positive and negative emotions brought on by being with her. What I take away from it is the elation we initially felt together is a feeling that was always inside me, but needed this girl to be brought out. I began to fantasize about our future together and projected a lot of expectations on her, which came crashing down. For the future I'll learn to see things more realistically.

I just posted about my own BPD experience. It was a nightmare and I'm pretty sure you might have some ptsd like symptoms even now considering the huge post you made

You might constantly think about her, just go NC. This might be the toughest thing to do if she was a waif, but she wasn't.
Her ultimate aim was to turn you beta and discard.

Which she did. Now armed with the redpill, you build yourself from scratch to the most alpha of alphas. It'll be way easier now, because after the ptsd like symptoms vanish, you'll become
stronger.

**** this *****, no guy deserves someone as ****ed up like her. Not even homeless joe

She was smart and said she was aware of what she'd done wrong, but I doubt she'll improve much in the future; she is who she is and a leopard doesn't change its spots. Let her go be crazy and selfish with the next dude, I'm better off without the stress. I needed this experience to tear me down and allow myself to reflect on my own shortcomings. Still think about her a lot, but know the best thing to do is take the pain and turn it into motivation for improving myself and screening girls more proactively in the future.

I had to quote @fastlife because this is really important. The important bits are in red.

A lot of people are gonna get on here and just tell you 'yup, she was BPD.' but that's wrong because that takes the blame off of YOU. The relationship went as it did because of the way you behaved. Granted she wasn't that great of a person given the drugs and selfishness but chalking it up to personality issues means you lose the lesson the experience was supposed to teach you. We all have narcissistic and egotistical tendencies some more than others. Being a shítty person does not mean you have a disorder and based off your story and what you described of her it sounds like -- again I repeat:

She was a shítty person and you made bad decisions.

This is important to understand, because after reading about cluster b horror stories, a lot of her behavior matched up, but I determined she wasn't quite at that level of crazy. She just initially came across as sweet to hook me, and turned out to be not a very nice person. It's absolutely on me to be aware of my own behavior and cognizant of the lessons for the future.

I've also learned the hard way that no matter how good your initial impressions are with a woman you are pursuing romantically, or hell not even just your initial impressions but the overall way your present yourself to her and how she thinks of you; when that starts to get replaced with more and more weak type of behaviors it's only a matter of time before she'll kick you to the curb. Women will tolerate a-lot of sh*t but they will never indefinitely tolerate an emotionally weak man, period. If a woman isn't your mother, grandma, sister or wife, there are very few reasons you should be shedding a tear for her, especially not because of the way she does or doesn't feel about you.

The weakness I showed was pathetic, no doubt. It came at a moment when she stood me up (after extending an invitation and being specific about the time, as Japanese do), she came back drunk and incoherent, I worried about her off her face on drugs, imagined cheating, and was pissed off about being neglected for a festival on another continent. One or two of these things might not set me off, but the combination led to losing frame.

In the future I'm determined to disengage at the first sign of disrespect or selfishness. In this case, with the two festival holidays planned and 'sorry no time to travel with you', I guess it would have been better to say, 'go ahead, have fun, don't expect me to be waiting when you return,' and peace out.

That girl has more red flags than a Double Dare obstacle course.

When you're infatuated, the red flags just look like flags. It's on all of us to be vigilant and hold these b!tches to account.

When you meet an older Japanese woman who is single, they tend to be desperate to find a husband. That in itself will bring up big personality issues. She was probably fighting her culture, and her own mental issues, the desire to fit in, and the desire to continue to be that free spirit. The tattoos, piercings etc indicate this.

You have to remember that Japan has the highest suicide rate going.
For people introduced to western culture with traditional Japanese culture looming, it's like Jekyll and Hyde.
She probably did feel you were being selfish, because you wanted a little woman to take care of, and were trying to fit her into your expectations. Obviously, she wasn't a traditional Japanese girl, and would never be able to be like that. Which is why her parents were badmouthing her.

Her parents would say 'are you getting married yet?', in a half joking half serious kind of way. The family was stable and normal, she had two younger siblings, Wako was definitely the black sheep of the bunch.

A lot of young Japanese people are incredibly nihilistic. She doesn't fit in with the rigid culture here, which attracted me; she was different. I get the sense that a lot of young people, especially women, grow up in the strict society and then are let loose in the West and go nuts with the freedom. It just so happened that this girl's method of 'escape' is to go to trance parties and load up on any drug she can get her hands on. Interesting and fun . . . until it isn't.

 

[fastlife]

I agree I needed to feel the positive and negative emotions brought on by being with her. What I take away from it is the elation we initially felt together is a feeling that was always inside me, but needed this girl to be brought out. I began to fantasize about our future together and projected a lot of expectations on her, which came crashing down. For the future I'll learn to see things more realistically.

Exactly. Anytime a guy comes here having trouble getting over his ex, this is the point I try to hammer home. Anything good in your relationship--all of those good feelings, all of that excitement--those were feelings that you generated and you still have the ability to access those emotions. She was merely the object present on which you projected those emotions. And anything bad in your relationship were a result of your expectations.

A lot of the time we try to hand that agency away (because the experience of 'falling in love' on a chemical level feels like something magical beyond our control); and a lot of those emotions are ones that we've suppressed for whatever reason.

Another mistake a lot of guys do is to either idealize their ex for those good emotions ('No girl will ever make me feel that way again') or to demonize them ('No girl could possibly be so fvcked up; fvck her; it was all fake'). The truth is that she's just a human, with human failings and insecurities and probably more incompatibilities than you'll tolerate in your next relationship. You have to assimilate her in her entirety to be able to successfully process your emotional memory of her (which is important, because it's easy to carry baggage that'll sabotage future relationships). The truth is that the relationship was good in a lot of ways and those memories can/should be valuable to you; and the truth is that the relationship was bad in a lot of ways, and it's equally important to store those memories as well (unless you're interested in repeating this experience).

And the truth is that no girl will probably ever 'make you feel the way you felt with her.' Take some time to mourn that--all those boyish dreams of romance and love. But with that loss comes an increase in agency--you'll have more power in the future to create relationships on your terms in ways that tangibly benefit you. And while there's no great euphoria in that, there's a tremendous amount of joy and satisfaction possible. (The feeling of having a girl 100% in your frame, when you aren't afraid to lose her & you know you have enough abundance to dominate her benevolently--that's beautiful, even if you've peeked behind the curtain and know how you're steering the ship & know exactly what she's capable of if you lose grip on the wheel or hit a rough patch.)

I'd definitely recommend taking up a daily meditation routine if you don't have one already.