Boxing and Weight Lifting

[CLOONEY]

Originally posted by Mojo604
What Clooney said about Oscar De La Hoya and Jr. Witter is pure BS.

De La Hoya's main strength was his speed and power in the lower weights (early in his career, 130lbs/135/140/147)) . At that time, he was really toned and muscular lookin- although still skinny lookin.
As he moved up in weight to 154lbs and 160lbs, in order to keep his speed, he did not lift weights for muscle gain- be cause that would make him slow.
As a fighter moves up in weight they tend to lose power, so if oscar lost his speed and his power- he would have nothing. THIS is why he looks soft (water weight) and not muscular.

As for Junior Witter, Clooney seems to say that he had no power early in his career because he was skinny? and that now that hes all muscular and strong he is KO'ing everything?

Early in Witters career he was a Boxer, and was content with boxing his way to decision wins to improve his boxing ability before facing more skilled boxers that will test his skills later on. After a long streak of decision wins, it was a trainer that got him to change his style to that of a boxer-puncher, since he had natural power which he was not using. After this change in Witter's style, he began a long KO streak and had nothing to do with how muscular he looked or whatever Clooney was implying.

Ummmm, Witter had natural power? Name me one fighter who has had 17 wins with 4 KOs of which had natural power? Are you kidding yourself? Because you are not kidding anyone here. NOBODY with natural power has such a bad KO ratio. Have a look at the size difference in Witter, his legs were skinny early in his career, now they are huge!!!! He has trained for power! Simple as that! Not because he is now a "boxer puncher", what a load of absolute crap!

As for DLH! Are you serious? Did you even watch the Gatti fight after DLH had stopped lifting weights? Look at him in the Tito fight, now look at him in the Gatti fight. His bodyshape is immensly different! And so too is his power!

Power comes from speed * weight! Thus, using your musles (having the proper ones strong), to help generate the weight from your punches, while remaining lean (not bulky, increasing your strength out of your natural division), will make your power its maximum! And no, it will not affect your speed! Further, make sure you plant your feet when you throw your punches, this will help generate your power up through your body, and something a lot of new fighters will not do at first!

Verdict, yes weights are good to help increase power, but also strength (and anyone who has boxed knows strength is a huge advantage and enables you to control the pace of a fight). Further, it will not affect speed, and not take you out of your natural weight division.

Once more, exactly like undesputable says, the core boxing training should be your main focus however, and if you are studying or working you will not have time or the energy to train in both weights and boxing seriously.

 

[CLOONEY]

Originally posted by CLOONEY


As for DLH! Are you serious? Did you even watch the Gatti fight after DLH had stopped lifting weights? Look at him in the Tito fight, now look at him in the Gatti fight. His bodyshape is immensly different! And so too is his power!

Oh and both were at 147. Further, DLH was a power puncher at 147, he even stopped Carr, more than even Ike Bazooka Quartey could do!!! That says a LOT! He also had the power to keep Tito off! At 154, against Mosley, DLH was seriously outpowered! And had his speed increased? No. Against Campus, he couldnt break an eggshell! He hit him all night long and couldnt stop him! In the Sturm fight, Oscar was lazy, he had puppy fat on him still around his midsection, he easily could have lost that and put on some strength. Thats why Sturm pushed him around all night long! Point is, since Oscar stopped lifting weights under Mayweather, he has not looked impressive ONCE! Yes he has gone up divisions, but I have never seen another fighter loose THAT much power jumping 7 pounds. It is not that bigger increase afterall!

 

[CLOONEY]

Oh, and how is it Tito went from a soft amateur puncher, to a powerful professional? Why dont you go and ask him!? You will get one good solid answer! Weight training! Mostly done on the legs!

 

[Mojo604]

Ok, thanks for explaining that.
I still dont agree on some things though.
Oh, and did Oscar really stop weight training with Mayweather?? Didnt know that if he did.

Anyways, in the one fight at 154lbs where Oscar came in in exellent shape, against Vargas, he stopped him and still looked like he had some decent power.

Originally posted by CLOONEY
Oh, and how is it Tito went from a soft amateur puncher, to a powerful professional? Why dont you go and ask him!? You will get one good solid answer! Weight training! Mostly done on the legs!

I have no doubt that stronger legs do equal to power, because they allow the body to have better balance and better leverage.
BUT a fighter simply cannot go from a soft hitter to a power punching beast from just weight training.
There are plenty of fighters out here with thick legs who have never had power.

Also, take a look at Shane Mosley. The guy has always had skinny little legs and still had serious power.
What im saying is, a fighter cannot just develope serious power by just weightraining, although im not saying that power cannot be improved at all. Im just saying that the bottom line of a boxers power is natural/ born with.

One more thing, the fighters that I think gain the most out of weight training, are the long/lanky type- because of the balance and leverage they can use to put behind their shots. But like I said, a tall skinny soft hitting guy cant just turn into a Tommy Hearns overnight from weightraining.

 

[Reyaj]

Clooney

Good analogy on Oscar. That definitely sounds like it makes sense. I can see where him putting on muscle would have helped his power.

Althought i have to admit i am still confused. Do you mind summarizing how building muscle through weight will not affect your speed? I definitely want to agree with you, because I like lifting!

Also what you said about power being a combination of muscle and speed makes sense.

Now someone like George Foreman who is one of the hardest punches ever IMHO definitely throws slow punches. Is it becasue he has muscle behind them that they are so powerful?

Also have a couple questions about boxing in general

1.) Are you supposed to have a lose fist and make it tight when you make impact with your opponent or bag.

2.) With footwork, if you are an orthodox figher, when you step to the right, which foot moves first? This trainer is trying to tell me that my lead foot (which is my left) should always step first except for when going backwards. This feels very uncomfortable to so I asked someone else at the gym and they said that thats not true.


Thanks for all your help. Definitely look forward to learning this art and challening Miguel Cotto

j/k!

 

[Reyaj]

Is something wrong with this forum? It says Mojo replied last when in fact I did.

 

[Mojo604]

1. Yes. Your fist should be tight and firm when you hit your opponent.
The only times you shouldnt have a tight fist is when you shadow box or when doing light pad work.

2. When moving to your Left- lead with your left foot.
When moving to the Right- lead with the right.


Its not hard to figure out. Either watch what proffesionals do, or try it out when you shadow box.

 

[Reyaj]

bump

 

[CLOONEY]

Originally posted by Mojo604
Ok, thanks for explaining that.
I still dont agree on some things though.
Oh, and did Oscar really stop weight training with Mayweather?? Didnt know that if he did.

Anyways, in the one fight at 154lbs where Oscar came in in exellent shape, against Vargas, he stopped him and still looked like he had some decent power.



I have no doubt that stronger legs do equal to power, because they allow the body to have better balance and better leverage.
BUT a fighter simply cannot go from a soft hitter to a power punching beast from just weight training.
There are plenty of fighters out here with thick legs who have never had power.

Also, take a look at Shane Mosley. The guy has always had skinny little legs and still had serious power.
What im saying is, a fighter cannot just develope serious power by just weightraining, although im not saying that power cannot be improved at all. Im just saying that the bottom line of a boxers power is natural/ born with.

One more thing, the fighters that I think gain the most out of weight training, are the long/lanky type- because of the balance and leverage they can use to put behind their shots. But like I said, a tall skinny soft hitting guy cant just turn into a Tommy Hearns overnight from weightraining.

Shane Mosley a serious power puncher? I would not agree, nor would many! Shane had such a brutal KO ratio because he was so damn fast and fit, and hit people with multiple mutiple punches! Not because of HUGE power!

As for guys with thick legs not having power, lol, because you have thick legs naturally, does not mean you have power! But guys who had real skinny legs, especially their upper legs (as calf muscles are one of the hardest muscles to expand), and then go to huge muscular legs, usually carry a lot of extra power in their gloves!

As for Tommy Hearns? How ironic you add the big grin! I think it was Freddie Roach who said of Tommy as an amateur, "Tommy could not break an egg shell". Look at him as a pro! LOL. Natural power? Although, I definately agree to some extent, it and it was so with Tommy also, that it is also your turning ability (uncoiling your body in rhythem), creating great timing, planting your feet, really bringing everything together. Weights alone will not do this, and I never said so, but doing the weight training, and further learning to control your body correctly will enable much great power. I know so myself, as I started out as a pigeon puncher for years, and after years of training and practice on power, it increased by about double. I never put a guy down for years, and then after working on it, was putting guy after guy on the seat of their pants!

 

[CLOONEY]

Ill get back to this thread later, have to fly right now.

 

[Mojo604]

After seeing shane knock people down with his jab, and KO or knockdown people with single body shots, and wobble guys with one or several punches- I tend to consider him a power puncher. Yeah he was lightning fast, but speed alone cant KO everything.
And Im confused, if you dont consider Mosley a serious puncher in the lower weights, then who was or is a serious puncher? The only guy I can think of (in lower weights) labelling as 'serious' is Kostya cuz hes a freakin robot .:crackup:
Anywyas, thanks for the good replies. I think im going to stop replying to stop wasting your time (and mine), I just realized that a lot of the things we dissagreed on were because of misunderstanding (from my part), and because of our different interpretations of boxing related words/things. Also, Im not completely clear on some of the things you talked about so I'd be dumb to try to reply and confuse things (bout Oscar weighttraining before Mayweather, and Hearns being a light hitter in amateurs). I always come on here like at 2am after work...brain is all messed and tired. need sleep, gtg.

 

[Reyaj]

At lighter weights Oscar, Tito, Quartey and Vargas are people I'd consider power punchers. Hence the key words, at lighter weights

 

[Mojo604]

Originally posted by Jayer
At lighter weights Oscar, Tito, Quartey and Vargas are people I'd consider power punchers. Hence the key words, at lighter weights

Kostya Tzsyu is a class above all these guys in terms of power scary.:crackup:

 

[manuva]

Yeah Kostya is an animal. I know a personal trainer who worked with him for a while, and he says the guy is so strong and powerful it's intimidating.

 

[Reyaj]

I guess Hatton is stronger since he made his ass retire on his stool...

 

[CLOONEY]

Hatton is definately stronger, I woudlnt say more powerful than Tszyu.

And as far as power punchers at lower weights, Azumah Nelson, Chico Coralles, Morales, Hamed, Pac, Lopez, Arguello, Olivarez, Duran, Saddler. All these guys could crack with one punch power.

And if you want to go higher, Roldan, Hearns, Tito, Quartey, Cuevas, DLH, SRR, many many more around the welter division.

Mosley has very very few one punch KOs. More from an accumulation of punches, much like Mayweather. I will get back to your Qs later still Jayer. Sorry, just been in a real real rush lately! No time for boxing, girls are taking over at the moment, but I will make a stop to that soon. Post later, cheers.

 

[CLOONEY]

Originally posted by Jayer
Clooney

Good analogy on Oscar. That definitely sounds like it makes sense. I can see where him putting on muscle would have helped his power.

Althought i have to admit i am still confused. Do you mind summarizing how building muscle through weight will not affect your speed? I definitely want to agree with you, because I like lifting!

Also what you said about power being a combination of muscle and speed makes sense.

Now someone like George Foreman who is one of the hardest punches ever IMHO definitely throws slow punches. Is it becasue he has muscle behind them that they are so powerful?

Also have a couple questions about boxing in general

1.) Are you supposed to have a lose fist and make it tight when you make impact with your opponent or bag.

2.) With footwork, if you are an orthodox figher, when you step to the right, which foot moves first? This trainer is trying to tell me that my lead foot (which is my left) should always step first except for when going backwards. This feels very uncomfortable to so I asked someone else at the gym and they said that thats not true.


Thanks for all your help. Definitely look forward to learning this art and challening Miguel Cotto

j/k!

If you train purely to increase power i.e. training the right areas, keep flexible through stretching, and keep your core training in the boxing gym (keeping you loose, sharp, good timing etc) you will loose so little speed, if any at all! I personally, NEVER noticed any speed going when I was training intenstly, if anything I just got faster and faster.

Foreman plants his feet and drives his power up through his legs, this is why he was so powerful, not to mention, at the time he fought, he was huge in comparison to guys like Joe Frazier and Ken Norton, thats why he romped through them so quickly! But yes, he was not fast. Power is speed * weight. So driving your weight correctly up through your legs, while remaining fast, will increase your power to a maximum!

Lead with the foot in the direction you are going and yes, keep your fist loose until just before impact, this is the way most people do it, and the way you will increase both your speed and your power. Keep up the good work! Boxing is real fun when you see dramatic improvements! Although remember, if you dont want to fight, just tell your coach, that is if you want to just enjoy learning the sport and training. I see the majority of guys who come into the gym, love learning the skills and the tricks, get pushed into fighting by the coach and end up quiting! If its not for you, just tell him, its not for you and enjoy the sport as it is!

 

[the_afc]

A good boxer is the fast boxer

If you lift weigths like a body builder,you will become slower.

There are special exercises for not loosing your flexibility and can improve your boby image as well.

"Google it" on the internet.