Boxing and Weight Lifting

[Reyaj]

Ok, I just started boxing and I am being told to stop lifting weights! They say the only excercises I should do for strength are push ups, pull ups, and dips.

This is bothering me cause weight lifting is a part of my life and I want to get strong. I'm sure pro boxers lift weights.

Although I haven't seen it have a good effect. Look at Shane Mosley and Fernando Vargas.


Clooney: Need your input here lol

 

[undesputable]

I box and personally i dont even have time to lift weights....You need to get your cardio up more than anything...so you need to run, jump rope, shadowbox, hit the bag almost everyday and spar 1 oe 2 times a week. Ive heard from different sources that its not good to do high intensity cardio and then lift weights all on the same day. Also the high intensity cardio you get from boxing will keep you lean, so youll have a hard time bulking up even if you did found time to lift weights....aside from heavyweights ive never really seen a serious boxer thats bulked up, bc you want box at the lowest weight you can, and the extra weight you get from bulking up or whatever will put you at a higher weight division where boxers will have an easier time knocking you out.

So if you want to bulk up and be big and really strong (although boxers are strong too, but most times lean and not big) then boxing isnt for you....just like long distance running isnt for a bodybuilder.

edit- by the way i was talking about heavy weight lifting...light weight lifting is good....i still dont find the time for it tho

 

[CLOONEY]

Hey Jayer, weights are a DEFINATE when boxing.

70% of your power (or this is what scientists estimate) comes from your legs. You should have strong calves and be doing a lot of squats, deadlifts, legpress etc.

You should also be doing a lot of chest work, and work on your tris and bis. (as these are used to throw your punches out and pull them back in), they are also used for clinches, but if you are only planning on fighting amateur, they are not as usefull. I would however, recommend you do them anyways.

You also need a lot of leg strength to help carry you around. So legs will not only increase your power, but will keep you on your toes. If you want more info on training, I would recommend you go to Secondsout.com. That site has by far the most reliable and expert advice you could possibly read. Other than that, if you want any advice on training routines, I have the full training routines of a few of the top pros, from Kostya Tszyu, Muhammad Ali, Roy Jones Jr, Ricky Hatton, Aaron "Hawk" Pryor. I can give you one if you want, although I cant do all, as it will take me too long to type out.

Good luck with the training, let me know how it progresses!

 

[CLOONEY]

As for lifting making you too high for your weight, take a look at one Jr Witter. The guy couldnt break an eggshell, now he looks twice as big and KOs nearly all his opponents. Look at Oscar, he used to have a decent punch and was far more physical, now look at him, he is a pansy from chopping wood! He has lost his definintion in his body, and pretty much every ounce of power he ever had!

 

[Bradshaw]

Here is my opinion on this subject.

Boxers are told not to lift weights. There is a phrase that I have heard a few times from different boxing trainers "The jury is still out... they haven't decided if weight lifting impairs a boxer’s performance a little... or a lot!"

Here is the dilemma. If you are a professional fighter, you have an ideal weight that you should fight at. This depends on your natural body type (size of your skeleton). You can pack 20 pounds of muscle (from weight lifting) onto that skeleton, but you will not have the same advantages (coordination, reflexes, etc) that the guy who is naturally heavier than you has in that weight class.

Conclusion: If you are competing in boxing, you may not want to dramatically increase you weight through weight lifting. If you are boxing for fun or self defense purposes, any extra muscle you can get will make your punches that much harder.

 

[CLOONEY]

Do you guys understand how much 20lbs of muscle is? By eating right, you can strip down a couple of pounds of fat (not much), put on a few pounds of muscle (tighten up your muscles, this will not put on weight, but will increase strength dramatically), and you will be a hell of a lot stronger (remember, strength in the ring is easily as important as punching power), and be in the same weight division.



http://www.secondsout.com/Ringside/training.cfm?ccs=355&cs=9834

Dave “SCOOTER” Honig has been a conditioning expert in the sport of boxing for over 15 years. He has worked with fighters including: Jameel McCline, Vivian Harris, Zab Judah, Kathy Collins, Oleg Maskev, Robert Allen, and Dimitri Salita. He is also now the exclusive strength and conditioning coach for LL Cool J.

 

[undesputable]

Originally posted by CLOONEY
As for lifting making you too high for your weight, take a look at one Jr Witter. The guy couldnt break an eggshell, now he looks twice as big and KOs nearly all his opponents. Look at Oscar, he used to have a decent punch and was far more physical, now look at him, he is a pansy from chopping wood! He has lost his definintion in his body, and pretty much every ounce of power he ever had!

well youre giving me two examples here and im talking about boxing in general.... I like how bradshaw put it. theres a natural weight in which a boxer fights the best at, if you loose youre natural muscle and go down in weight, then yea your punches are going to be slow and weak....but also if you gain 20 lbs of muscle above your ideal weight, your punches are also going to stronger bc theres more mass behind the punch, but theres not the speed behind it.

The idea is staying within your weight without relying on weight lifting to make a weight class....or loosing muscle to make a lower weight class.

also you can tighten your muscles up through just pushups, pull ups, chin ups, light weight lifting, squats, rope jumping....maybe moderate to heavy weight lifting might help to an extent, but in no way should make the core of a boxers workout.

but yea if youre not looking to compete, then lift all the weights you want.

 

[Bradshaw]

I’ve got an ebook from this guy:Ross Enamait Boxing

It is called: The Boxer’s Guide to Performance Enhancement. I haven’t read it yet, but I have heard good reviews on other boards. It is mostly bodyweight or medicine ball exercises.

P.S.: Health & Fitness section???

 

[CLOONEY]

Originally posted by undesputable
well youre giving me two examples here and im talking about boxing in general.... I like how bradshaw put it. theres a natural weight in which a boxer fights the best at, if you loose youre natural muscle and go down in weight, then yea your punches are going to be slow and weak....but also if you gain 20 lbs of muscle above your ideal weight, your punches are also going to stronger bc theres more mass behind the punch, but theres not the speed behind it.

The idea is staying within your weight without relying on weight lifting to make a weight class....or loosing muscle to make a lower weight class.

also you can tighten your muscles up through just pushups, pull ups, chin ups, light weight lifting, squats, rope jumping....maybe moderate to heavy weight lifting might help to an extent, but in no way should make the core of a boxers workout.

but yea if youre not looking to compete, then lift all the weights you want.

2 examples, and there are many more, how about Tszyu or Trinidad? Both of which use a lot of weights in their routine, especially Tito (and no, this is not including his jumping divisions) RIcky Hatton furthermore, did a hell of a lot of extra weight training prior the Tszyu fight to make him of equal strenght, did he jump out of 140lbs division?. I never said it should be the core of your workout, and of coruse it shouldnt. Further, if you are not pro, it is not at all neccessary! Some pros furthermore dont do weights, however the majority I know do. And once again, this does NOT put you above your natural division! You can put on a lot of size and strength, without actually going up that much weight if you keep real real lean (i.e. very low bodyfat %). 20lbs of pure muscle is rediculous and takes well over a year to acheive! That is assuming you are dieting and training to perfection!

 

[undesputable]

Originally posted by CLOONEY
2 examples, and there are many more, how about Tszyu or Trinidad? Both of which use a lot of weights in their routine, especially Tito (and no, this is not including his jumping divisions) RIcky Hatton furthermore, did a hell of a lot of extra weight training prior the Tszyu fight to make him of equal strenght, did he jump out of 140lbs division?. I never said it should be the core of your workout, and of coruse it shouldnt. Further, if you are not pro, it is not at all neccessary! Some pros furthermore dont do weights, however the majority I know do. And once again, this does NOT put you above your natural division! You can put on a lot of size and strength, without actually going up that much weight if you keep real real lean (i.e. very low bodyfat %). 20lbs of pure muscle is rediculous and takes well over a year to acheive! That is assuming you are dieting and training to perfection!

alright cool, were in the same page now... I agree with your post there... yea of course you can always drop the fat and replace it with muscle.... but when all the fat is gone and theres only lean muscle left, what do you do then? you probably want to just keep lifting LIGHT weights to maintain yourself at that level, but not so much as weight lifting to keep gaining muscle.

 

[Reyaj]

Looks like there is much debate on this subject. I mean obviously if you are a power lifter and get bulky it will slow you down. But if you lift for endurance and get add a bit of muscle weight I think it could be beneficial.

Clooney
Thanks for the info, I'll let you know how training goes. Right now I am working on footwork. If you could send me Ricky Hatton training plan I'd appreciate it.

My point is I've been lifting and I'm seeing my strength increase. Now all of a sudden trainers at the gym are telling me stop it caue it will slow me down.

I guess the biggest example I could see is with Shane Mosely. He used to be one of the fastest guys and now you can obviously see he's slown down. However I think the fact that he is older now might have more to do with it than his weight lifting. I've read that Shane benches like 315, and he weighs what 154? This was of course before the whole Balco investigation and he has gone back to his best weight I believe. Plus I think he was juicing.

I am going to have to learn how to Squats and dead lifts, thats for sure. My tri's and bi's will be no problem. I really don't want to stop lifting though.

Clooney do you box amateur or pro? What weight are you at? I think boxing is one of the best fighting techniques there is and I look forward to learning this art even more.

 

[MindOverMatter]

guys, strength training is different from hypertrophy (mass) training. there are many powerlifter programs/diets designed to boost your lifting power while helping you stay in your weight division.

if you are doing any martial arts, weight training makes a HUGE difference.

 

[Alpine]

Not using weights for strength training in boxing is very 'old school'. Top fighters will use weights I'm sure.

However, there's not much use in training like a bodybuilder to prepare you for boxing. I'd look into googling 'functional strength' and stuff like that.

You can get impressively big if you are only going to be messin around. If you are a serious boxer however all your focus goes into what will help you win in the ring, not what looks good.

 

[CLOONEY]

Exactly mind, you can increase strength without weight. It is done in boxing ALL the time.

Shane Mosley, he jumped up from 135lbs to 154lbs, no wonder he lost speed! I am not talking about doing that, I am talking about increasing your strength (which is critical), and remaining in the same weight. As for Mosley, lightweight was his best, he is at welter now, he can be competitive there, but nowhere nearly as dominate as he was at lightweight!

Alpine made a very good point, it is "old school" not to use weights, and this is why the majority of coaches in your local gyms will tell you not to use them. However, the majority of the top professional trainers will tell you to use them.

Jayer, I was an amateur, I fought at 147lbs. Although have stopped boxing for a little while now, had a run of injuries and as of yet, havent had the motivation to take it up seriously again. It is not a sport you can play with, if you are going to box, you have to live it, breath it, train a lot, you cant just train a couple of times a week like you do in a sport like soccer. Because all fighters, are in the gym AT LEAST a few times a week, and if you want to get the edge, you will need to be in there like 5-6 times a week!

 

[Bradshaw]

Originally posted by CLOONEY
Exactly mind, you can increase strength without weight. It is done in boxing ALL the time...
&
Shane Mosley, he jumped up from 135lbs to 154lbs, no wonder he lost speed! I am not talking about doing that, I am talking about increasing your strength (which is critical), and remaining in the same weight.

Clooney & MindOverMatter, you guys are correct. I lift weights (off and on), and it definitely helps. I was only suggesting that boxers not gain too much bulk/muscle if they are competing, because the extra strength is not worth the tradeoff for other physical attributes if you are in a higher weight class.

Final Verdict for competitive boxers:
-Weight lifting to increase strength = good
-Weight lifting to substantially increase your body weight = bad

 

[undesputable]

Originally posted by Bradshaw


Final Verdict for competitive boxers:
-Weight lifting to increase strength = good
-Weight lifting to substantially increase your body weight = bad

thats what i was trying to say

 

[Mojo604]

What Clooney said about Oscar De La Hoya and Jr. Witter is pure BS.

De La Hoya's main strength was his speed and power in the lower weights (early in his career, 130lbs/135/140/147)) . At that time, he was really toned and muscular lookin- although still skinny lookin.
As he moved up in weight to 154lbs and 160lbs, in order to keep his speed, he did not lift weights for muscle gain- be cause that would make him slow.
As a fighter moves up in weight they tend to lose power, so if oscar lost his speed and his power- he would have nothing. THIS is why he looks soft (water weight) and not muscular.

As for Junior Witter, Clooney seems to say that he had no power early in his career because he was skinny? and that now that hes all muscular and strong he is KO'ing everything?

Early in Witters career he was a Boxer, and was content with boxing his way to decision wins to improve his boxing ability before facing more skilled boxers that will test his skills later on. After a long streak of decision wins, it was a trainer that got him to change his style to that of a boxer-puncher, since he had natural power which he was not using. After this change in Witter's style, he began a long KO streak and had nothing to do with how muscular he looked or whatever Clooney was implying.

 

[Mojo604]

As for whether weight lifting is good for boxing, it can be beneficial if done properly.
The types of weight lifting vary on the body type and muscle type of a boxer. Boxers with short muscles benefit more from certain types of exercises, same with long muscles.
just look something up on 'physiology muscle fibers'. should have good stuff.

 

[Reyaj]

I can't comment on this becasue I really don't know much about Junior Whittier.

I have heard a saying in boxing, and that is that hand speed equals power. I guess it makes sense because the faster the punch comes at you, the harder it should impact.

Is it safe to say that as long as you don't get too bulky, weight lifting is ok when boxing?

 

[undesputable]

Originally posted by Jayer


Is it safe to say that as long as you don't get too bulky, weight lifting is ok when boxing?

yea...but my point since the beggining is that if youre not going to be training full time and you work or go to school is going to be hard to find some time for the weights, as you need to get a lot of cardio work in first, and you need to do it most everyday...but if you have time then by all means go ahead.