Bodybuilding vs Powerlifting

[user43770]

I've always been more of a powerlifter. I've put on about 20 pounds over the last year - a lot of it muscle - and I've gotten a lot stronger (squat went from 135x5 to 255x5). I accomplished this by following Rippetoes Starting Strength program. I've always preferred this type of routine because it's no nonsense: big lifts, big eats and few barbell curls; I hate curls. I guess I basically like to keep it simple. All is well, right? Not really.

Lately, I've hit a mental wall and I've been re-evaluating my goals. I've realized that the main reason I work out these days is because of vanity - I like looking good naked. I don't care as much about strength as I used to. I don't compete in sports anymore, I don't get into bar fights, and I work in an office. The only time my strength comes into play is at the gym. Shouldn't I focus more on bodybuilding?

I still want to focus on the big three, I just want to step it up aesthetically. I'm looking for advice on how to accomplish this goal. I could have just fvckin googled it, but I value the advice on this board much more.


Thanks, guys.

 

[user43770]

5'8
170 lbs

Squat: 255x5

Bench: 200x5

Deadlift: 295x5

 

[speed dawg]

If you want looks, I'd go HARD on the diet instead of tweaking your training. I've found that if I go at it like crazy in the gym, I get results, no matter the "program" or "regimen" or anything like that. Hard work is hard work.

Getting ripped is the key to looking good, IMO.

But if I had to choose what looked better, I'd say doing the functional training helps me look more athletic than the bodybuilding type training does. Bodybuilding training has also caused me some injury. To tell you the truth, like I stated earlier, all training should be rooted in the multi-dimensional functional movements of the trunk and thighs.

That aside, if I want to go for looks, I do the above, hit the diet, try to bulk up my forearms and calves. You'd be surprised how sexy girls think those are.

Edited to add: With your numbers there, your muscles should look fairly good if you have low body fat.

 

[Kerpal]

5'8
170 lbs

Squat: 255x5

Bench: 200x5

Deadlift: 295x5

Your numbers in the big 3 are low enough that the best way to look good at this point is to keep increasing them. The best bodybuilders have very good numbers for the big 3.

 

[EFFORT]

increasing your big 3 is important for sure, but there def better routines for hypertrophy. Look in to 5/3/1 bodybuilding template or try out IA's volume routine http://www.ironaddicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23374. With that said your diet will be what makes or breaks you. I find carb cycling type diets really do the job well for the masses for whatever your goal is. Do some research, Shelby Starnes and Justin have a lot of info out on it.

 

[CarlitosWay]

I've always been more of a powerlifter. I've put on about 20 pounds over the last year - a lot of it muscle - and I've gotten a lot stronger (squat went from 135x5 to 255x5). I accomplished this by following Rippetoes Starting Strength program. I've always preferred this type of routine because it's no nonsense: big lifts, big eats and few barbell curls; I hate curls. I guess I basically like to keep it simple. All is well, right? Not really.

You hate curls? Why exactly? Cause you get fed bull**** like "You don't need to do curls exercises until you're at X amount of strength or X amount of size?" If genetically you're not gifted with big arms, you have to hit them with extra work, I don't care what anyone says. Rippetoe is good at what he does which is "Strength training and conditioning" . Yet he likes to rip on bodybuilders for no reason as I've read a lot unnecessary **** spewed from him. He talks about them at times like he has a personal vendetta.


whether people like it or not, how you train influences where that muscle goes. Big complex exercises (that work for your body type) + isolation work (machines/cables/dbs/barbell) is the way to go no matter the stage

. So building an aesthetic/balanced physique should be every bodybuilders goal and hell even athletes. For example if you have an athlete with small weak/tight hamstrings and naturally bigger/stronger quads. He's seriously risking a hamstring tear.

Lately, I've hit a mental wall and I've been re-evaluating my goals. I've realized that the main reason I work out these days is because of vanity - I like looking good naked. I don't care as much about strength as I used to. I don't compete in sports anymore, I don't get into bar fights, and I work in an office. The only time my strength comes into play is at the gym. Shouldn't I focus more on bodybuilding?

Why not? A lot of people have this goal to "look good naked", yet some are naive and like to bash bodybuilders. As if the top nattie bodybuilders are not building some of the most impressive physiques.

This is where the passion in bodybuilding comes from, you're not doing this for anyone but YOURSELF. Having girls and people notice you is just an added benefit/side effect. It all hangs on you, the food you eat and how hard and logically you train in the gym.

I still want to focus on the big three, I just want to step it up aesthetically. I'm looking for advice on how to accomplish this goal. I could have just fvckin googled it, but I value the advice on this board much more.


Thanks, guys.

You can still have your big three, yet what you might want to do now is start hitting higher rep ranges and working to beat those sets by more reps or weight.

For bench work you could go 6-10 rep range 1-2 working sets
Than after do another pressing movement in a higher area 12-15. 1-2 working sets. just an example. You're going to have to learn how to get more in tune with that "mind-to-muscle connection" . Just heaving up **** any way you can is not bodybuilding. Using a targeted muscle and making it hit full exhaustion and causing the best stimulation is a bodybuilders goal. What I would call a "controlled chaos".

Than from time to time you can go real heavy. I know guys who do the above and than here or there go real heavy, more than anything else just for heaving some heavy **** cause they like to and to check up on strength. Yet they know it's not optimal for putting on size.

 

[Amazing]

I am in the same camp, here is what I heard

4-6 reps is strength

8-12 is size building

12+ endurance

start doing more reps, and iso work.

also, going to the gym 4 times instead of 3 REALLY helped me out.

what I also did was go 4-6 reps 2 weeks 8-12 2 weeks to mix it up.

It is all about vanity, true dat. I squat 240 and ask myself - why risk the injury?

 

[Kerpal]

I find the idea of training purely for aesthetics and neglecting strength very bizarre, but that's a whole different debate that we've done 100x already. That said, the method of training you guys are endorsing doesn't make sense to me, even from a purely "bodybuilding" standpoint.

Say you want to train with higher reps for "the pump" or whatever. And your max squat is 250. So you'll be doing reps with about 185- 200 lbs. Doesn't it make more sense to get your max higher, and THEN do reps with heavier weight? If you got your max squat to 400, you could do reps with 300+ lbs instead of 200. Wouldn't doing reps with much more weight be better for getting bigger?

Plus, if you're a beginner, you can grow very quickly with sets of 5. In fact, for a pure beginner, I doubt higher reps will make you grow any faster than sets of 5, since at that level almost anything will make you grow and studies show that beginner do best with sets of around 5 reps. And sets of 5 are the best way for a beginner to get strong as quickly as possible. So for a beginner, it seems like you get the best of both worlds by simply doing a basic low rep strength program. I define "beginner" as anyone who hasn't exhausted their limits on a simple linear progression program. Obviously when you're no longer a beginner you have to use more complicated programming depending on your goals.

Example: I can squat a little over 400 and deadlift around 500 at a bodyweight of about 200, and I STILL haven't exhausted linear progression. I'm still making progress (although at a very slow rate now) with the basic Starting Strength program, I've gained ~50 lbs on this program, most of it has been muscle (if not all of it; it's possible my bodyfat % may actually be lower than when I started) and I have below average genetics. So now, if I wanted to train purely for size, I could squat 300+ and deadlift 400+ for reps. Wouldn't this make me much bigger than if I had started (and stalled out quickly) with an overly complicated, high rep, light weight program in the first place?

It just makes more sense to me to build up a strength base before you try high rep stuff, even if your goal is just looking good at the beach or whatever it is you guys are trying to accomplish.

 

[Kerpal]

Rippetoe is good at what he does which is "Strength training and conditioning" . Yet he likes to rip on bodybuilders for no reason as I've read a lot unnecessary **** spewed from him. He talks about them at times like he has a personal vendetta.

The reason we hate bodybuilding so much (besides being such a bizarre and gay activity in the first place) is that bodybuilding has basically ruined true strength training in this country. Everyone now thinks that bodybuilding is the same thing as training for strength, when they actually have nothing to do with each other.

Another reason Rippetoe hates them, I suspect, is that they keep taking his program, bastardizing it to be "better" for bodybuilding, and then he gets associated with an activity he despises. Imagine if you were a bodybuilder who hated powerlifting and thought it was just a bunch of fat guys, and then powerlifters took your program and edited it and kept calling it the "CarlitosWay" program, asking you questions about it that have nothing to do with the original intent of the program, etc. That would piss anyone off.

Go to the grocery store, the magazine section is full of Flex and **** like that. Everyone wants to know how much you can curl or bench, no one actually cares about how strong you are. Everyone wants to look strong without actually being strong, like the kids who put a big wing and loud annoying exhaust on their 90 horsepower Honda civics. Everyone's been brainwashed into thinking that bodybuilding actually has something to do with being strong or healthy. High school football coaches are putting their trainees on bodybuilding programs instead of actual strength training. Go to the gym, 99% of the people there are doing programs from bodybuilding magazines that don't work and they look the same year after year. Every time I go to the gym I have to wait to use a squat rack because some faggot is doing curls in it. It's aggravating, it's ruined actual strength training in the USA, and it's actually having a detrimental effect on the health of the country.

A lot of people have this goal to "look good naked", yet some are naive and like to bash bodybuilders. As if the top nattie bodybuilders are not building some of the most impressive physiques.

The question of who has the "most impressive" physiques is totally subjective. I think bodybuilders look completely retarded, and I have the feeling most people agree with me. I suspect the vast majority of women find this kind of physique: http://crossfitrockford.typepad.com/crossfit_rockford/images/2007/10/08/body20of20lifter.jpg much more impressive/sexually stimulating than this: http://usabodybuilding.com/ironman_philheath.jpg, which almost everyone agrees just looks bizarre.

 

[Colossus]

Doesn't matter if you're doing Rippletoe or a high-volume head-to-toe BB'er routine...consistency in diet, level of resistance, and a varied number of reps will largely determine an exceptional physique.

Agree with this statement. There is far too much dogma in the fitness world. It's not rocket science---it's weight training.

I'm an actual powerlifter--in that I compete in sanctioned events with other serious lifters. While I train primarily for strength, I'm not going to sit here and tell you I don't care how I look. There aren't many powerlifters who don't want to look better, and there aren't many bodybuilders who wouldn't like to be a little stronger. So both sides can learn from each other.

Personally I like the training aspects of bodybuilding, but the 'sport' itself is just plain gay. JMO.

In regards to the OP, if you want to step it up aesthetically, change your diet, and be serious about it. That means every single day. Get on something time-tested like the metabolic diet (see Mauro Di Pasquale), and within a few weeks you'll be pleased. Problem is, you cant get strong AND lean concomitantly. If you want better aesthetics (shape and leanness), keep the big three but bring more rep volume into your training. Add more training volume/variety to weak areas. There are a million theories out there, but it's that simple. Day in and day out dedication yields results over time.

EDIT--Kerpal, Phil Heath is the man. One of the few modern BBing physiques I like. Everyone likes a different look though.

 

[Kerpal]

OK, I understand wanting to look good. I don't have anything against it. We think muscular people look good because it's sign that the person is strong. Being strong helps you survive, and we inherently find people who have good survival traits attractive because we're biologically programmed to want to give our offspring the best chance of survival. That's why chicks like muscular guys (although the bodybuilders are taking it way too far to the point where it looks unnatural and most people don't find it attractive at all).

The problem is that many people have found a way to "trick" their bodies into looking strong without actually being strong. Have you ever seen the kids in their ****ty Honda civics with the loud, annoying exhausts, flame stickers, big wings on the trunks, etc? They're trying to give off the appearance of being fast when they aren't actually fast. To me it's the same as training to look strong without actually being strong. I just find it bizarre.

Why not just get strong? Then you'll look strong and actually be able to back it up. I would rather have a car that looks fast and goes fast than a car that looks fast but isn't. Plus there are lots of benefits to actually being strong and athletic besides how you look. If you're going to bother going to the gym in the first place you may as well reap all the benefits. And anyway, strength training is fun

Also, I like having goals to set and reach, and there aren't many other hobbies that are so quantitative in the way you set goals and measure progress. I'm a very analytical person so that is important to me, just going by the mirror doesn't mean anything to me because it's so subjective; it's not really a precise, quantitative way to measure anything. If I was training for looks and measuring progress with a mirror I think I would have gotten bored and quit by now.

 

[Fuglydude]

Why not do both??? I don't like the whole bodybuilding VS. powerlifting debate... as Espi said, the two aren't mutually exclusive. Top powerlifters will incorporate classic bodybuilding ideas into their training and vice versa.

I like to look good as the next guy... in fact I've had to maintain a certain aesthetic standard during the stripping career. I've actually turned down shows when I felt I wasn't upto standard. At the same time, I can't stand going to the gym "just" for the pump. Don't get me wrong, I love the pump, but I'd rather have set a nice PR in deads and squats and then reward myself w/ a light set of bicep curls to pump up my arms. In my experience if you train heavy and try to optimize body composition: keep bf% ~10%... you'll look pretty damn good.

Haha, great analogy on the cars Kerpal. I work out a typical puzzy ass commercial gym, and there's no one in my bodyweight range (180 lbs) that comes close to achieving my numbers in squat, deads, dumbell push/pull work, or weighted dips/pull ups. I get stared at mercilessly when I do a 225 lb clean (which really isn't a big deal), or do pull ups w/ 100 lbs around my waist. I don't understand why people don't want to both BE strong and look good??? I don't know, maybe its the athlete in me speaking?

To be successful in either route you'll have to be disciplined, committed and mentally tough to be consistent to live the lifestyle. Colossus great points on the fitness world being too dogmatic... and for the record you CAN be strong and lean at the same time... just gotta come over to the dark side.... ;-)

 

[Amazing]

Respectfully, Kerpal: I don't think it's possible to neglect strength and obtain an aesthetic physique...that's like trying to mix oil and water...or like trying to have your cake and eat it, too--it's just not possible.

I personally know that in order to build quality mass, one MUST build his strength.

There's a little bit of powerlifter in every bodybuilder.

There's a little of bodybuilder in every powerlifter.

However--I simply don't care how strong I am. Guys ask me all the time, "How much can you bench?" I tell them I have no clue--I'm more interested in chasing skirt than I am in maximizing my bench.

I have big arms, but I rarely work my biceps more than once a week--6-9 sets at most...curl 45's at the most. And I don't care...whoop te do. My arms look great...I do what it takes to keep my body looking great...so 1-rep maxes are worthless to me.

As long as my muscles look good, I don't care how much I can lift...increasing strength has never meant anything to me, and it doesn't mean anything to me now--other than being the vehicle to making me look good. If I can curl only 45's and yet somehow still have big, ripped arms, why should I care about lifting more weight?

Superman and Batman, etc. Yeah they've got freakish strength...but more importantly, they look GOOD.

Ok, obviously it's working for you. Can you post your program with reps and everything please?

I need to gain size, I don't care about deadlifting 300 anymore and having a sore back for 2 weeks.

 

[Jitterbug]

I need to gain size, I don't care about deadlifting 300 anymore and having a sore back for 2 weeks.

Poor you. Maybe you should ask this girl why deadlifting 300lbs is so hard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkeMQc8KiS8

No sh!t that you're not gaining size when your DL weight is puny.

###

Regardless of whether you're a bodybuilder or powerlifter wannabe, you will not get bigger or stronger by avoiding to work hard for it.

 

[Amazing]

Poor you. Maybe you should ask this girl why deadlifting 300lbs is so hard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkeMQc8KiS8

No sh!t that you're not gaining size when your DL weight is puny.

###

Regardless of whether you're a bodybuilder or powerlifter wannabe, you will not get bigger or stronger by avoiding to work hard for it.

Hahaha, right. Because I already know I deadlift more than 99% of the population, so I should care, right?

 

[Quagmire911]

Poor you. Maybe you should ask this girl why deadlifting 300lbs is so hard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkeMQc8KiS8

No sh!t that you're not gaining size when your DL weight is puny.

###

Regardless of whether you're a bodybuilder or powerlifter wannabe, you will not get bigger or stronger by avoiding to work hard for it.

That didn't count! She hitched it!

 

[Kerpal]

I need to gain size, I don't care about deadlifting 300 anymore and having a sore back for 2 weeks.

If your back is sore for 2 weeks, ur doin it wrong. The best way to get big is to get a big squat, bench/overhead press and deadlift.

That didn't count! She hitched it!

That was impressive for a girl that size even with the hitching. Those plates made it look like she had 600 lbs on there though :crackup:

 

[Jitterbug]

She also trained for less than a year, and her goal is to reduce BF%.

###

Having a sore back for 2 weeks means that his technique is really sh!t, which is only matched by his exceptionally poor diet and rest.

 

[Fuglydude]

Haha what a crazy video!!!!

That's a strong ass girl right there!

I'm deadlifting 2.67x bodyweight and my back "only" hurts for a few days... something's wrong w/ your technique, nutrition/recovery, etc.

 

[Drum&Bass]

Since we're being all honest...

Bodybuilding is awesome...Sure its gay to look at a bunch of muscular dudes on stage, but I am intrigued by it. If a see a ridiculously diesel dude walking down the street I would stare in awe !!

A good physique on a male and female is nice to look at !!! If you GUYS did not visually appreciate the male form then most of you wouldnt care about how you looked. Your training would solely focus on strength, general health or athletics.

I think subconsciously I compare the amazing physiques of bodybuilders with my own and try to sculpt my body to look like theirs.

Powerlifting is awesome as well. I think both powerlifting and bodybuilding are similar in that your showing off your strength or your looks. I love having people comment about insane feats of strength and impressing others knowing that they would break in half or get squashed trying to do what I do (not that I do much in the grand scheme of things).

Powerlifting has built up my physique to the point where I dont really need to focus or worry about how I look (to attract the ladies). The stronger you become the better looking you become for the most part (granted your diet is clean healthy).

I get more of a kick out of the confidence and empowerment I have over other people so Powerlifting means more to me than bodybuilding.

Either way we're all exhibitionists in some form or another and we're all trying to show something off to the world.