Body Image Sh1t. Would value Perspectives.

[drak_ool]

the pics are kinda blurry, but it def doesn't look bad at all! However, as you pointed it out yourself, this is a mindset problem more than anything else.

I doubt this will help you, but look all over Eastern Europe. You see guys with disgusting bodies bagging some of the hottest chicks you've ever dreamed of. How can they be so confident you ask? well, the fact that they value other things in life than their bodies is one clue. The fact that they are filthy rich is another...

How is your disc doing now? Are there certain exercises that cause you pain over others?

The problem with the disc, and that's why I was saying I feel your pain, is because it changed my entire outlook on life. The first few weeks, I could not get out of bed without crawling up the wall (literally) as all my core muscles shut down. When I started the therapy, I couldn't even lift my legs when laying on my back.

More than the physical though, for the first time fear became a part of my daily life. The fear of lifting something too heavy, the fear of getting stuck in traffic (it really hurts when I sit), shyt I was this close to getting anxiety attacks on two plane rides. And did I mentioned that nowadays I fly standing up most of the way?

Therapy did help a lot, doing a variety of exercise to strenghten my core, which helped me get back into surfing 8 months ago. But still, the fear is holding me back from lifting as hard as I used to or going back to fighting.

Unlike in your position, surgery would only shave the portion of the disc that is bulging, it wouldn't actually solve the problem and it would make the disc weaker, more prone to re-injury in the future.

Trust me, if there was a surgery I could do to get my disc and spine back to where it was 14 months ago, I would do it in a heartbeat, and incur any amount of debt to do so.

 

[betheman]

Buddha, first of all well done on the work you have put in.

like you I have some loose skin, at my age I doubt its going to go away, yeah it pi$$es me off (I was the fat kid as well).

what has your lowest bodyfat %age been? at your age, id be looking to get it around 7-8% and hold it there for a while then see what your left with.

diet is a crucial factor but even that is limited depending on skin types/genetics. on BB .com there are before and after pics of some previously Huge guys, way bigger than I ever was, they are now pretty jacked and zero evidence of loose skin, doesnt seem fair but thats life.

as an aside, over here in the UK we have the good old NHS. Obese people can have gastric bands fitted (free) then when they have lost all the weight, the loose skin is then surgically removed, arms, legs, abdomen etc etc...all free! this makes me happy....not! I went to my GP after working my ar$e off and out, he was impressed but ultimately, I didnt qualify for what would have been even relatively minor surgery.

Im still working out and cant do without it, Id rather have the loose skin that get fat again. Id rather have the scars and may go for surgery at some point. I can afford it, around £5k.

one other thing, our perception of a problem when it comes to body image is often worse than that others have of us. has anyone actually commented or made any derogatory remarks?

 

[zekko]

one other thing, our perception of a problem when it comes to body image is often worse than that others have of us. has anyone actually commented or made any derogatory remarks?

I agree that Buddha seems to think that the problem is worse than it actually is. Or in other words, he's more self conscious about it than he needs to be. It's cool that he's willing to work toward any sort of self improvement though.

Buddha, I like the long hair. I have a friend of mine, we were recently talking, and he said back when he was in his 20s all he had to do was walk into a bar and start playing pool. Before long, a woman would have her hand on his @ss. I don't doubt it, because I do remember the ladies being drawn to him. He was very tall and looked like a rock star with his long hair (which was actually more in style at the time). I think the long hair sent a message that he wasn't necessarily willing to be bound by society's rules, and would be open to anything (like a girl putting a hand on his @ss).

I'd like to have long hair myself, except:
1) It's gray now anyway
2) I can't stand having to take care of it, and
3) It wouldn't work well in my profession.

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear Bhudda,
Surgery mate!

 

[FairShake]

http://i50.tinypic.com/2nvxu95.png (loose skin)

Dude, the only person in the world who will have a problem with that is you.

I'm not sure what will get your mind off of some virtually non-existent skin flaps but I think you should try that before you sink thousands into surgery. I seriously doubt that surgery will give you what you are looking for.

 

[flashpoint]

i wouldnt say the problem is non-existent, but it is barely noticable. certainly nothing any chick would be put off by. in addition females might appreciate it when you are not too perfect since this way they can feel much more comfortable about themselves. and even the hottest chicks have their hang-ups and weak points concering their body.

just my opinion, but i would address the problem when it occurs. e.g. when you get bad remarks or anything. until then i'd put all effort in my success and if felt necessary deal with this one later. and the suggested diet sounds like no mistake either.

 

[backbreaker]

that problem is no where near as bad as you made it sound dude. you probably will never have a 6 pack but you will never have probelm attracting women. you arent' a bad looking dude no homo

'speaking of body issues i'm about 2 seconds from taking a wire plier and pulling this damn tooth out good god i'm in pain. my freaking teeth it's always something. one of them is more sensitive than the others and every once in a while it just "flairs up".

 

[Buddha_Mind]

Dude, the only person in the world who will have a problem with that is you.

I'm not sure what will get your mind off of some virtually non-existent skin flaps but I think you should try that before you sink thousands into surgery. I seriously doubt that surgery will give you what you are looking for.

As I said, I know it's worse in my head, but when you've put in as many hours as myself it can be discouraging when you can't ever have the abs that you really want -- there's a difference between bishing and moaning, but this aspect of my skin I am unable to change unless I likely gain 10-20lbs more of lean muscle mass.

The surgery would remove the excess hanging skin, which I can literally pull off of my stomach with my hands -- I know it's not that bad, I know especially someone in lesser shape they'd love to have the same body [my 260lb self would have looked at this man (me now) and said DUDE what's the prob!?--but once you've gotten there isn't always so simple, still feels like a foreign alien attached to my mid-section.

***

what has your lowest bodyfat %age been? at your age, id be looking to get it around 7-8% and hold it there for a while then see what your left with.

diet is a crucial factor but even that is limited depending on skin types/genetics. on BB .com there are before and after pics of some previously Huge guys, way bigger than I ever was, they are now pretty jacked and zero evidence of loose skin, doesnt seem fair but thats life.

I haven't gotten my BF that low...well not since I've gained muscle..back in the days of 150-165 I was low BF% because I was such a cardio-junkie at the time. But now I've dialed that back...but yes the hard part is getting the fat off while PRESERVING the new muscle tissue..it takes a decent amount of time to grow new tissue so of course I am apprehensive sometimes to cut calories down too much for fear of shrinking muscles..I know that's a bit cheese but it's just the way the mind gets afterawhile...you work so damn hard for your gains just sucks to want to dial that back...but I absolutely agree with you and bb that my diet can be improved. Like I said, my lifestyle throws me some challenges, so I don't always have solid access to a kitchen, I've got to setup my backcountry kitchen and sometimes that's just a pain in the ass--no excuses, but it is a reasoning. I've got to get my diet more in check.

***

i wouldnt say the problem is non-existent, but it is barely noticable. certainly nothing any chick would be put off by. in addition females might appreciate it when you are not too perfect since this way they can feel much more comfortable about themselves. and even the hottest chicks have their hang-ups and weak points concering their body.

I actually never thought of that...I'm not trying to be some self-conscious exercise-addict here who's never happy. That's not what I'm trying to communicate. I'm just trying to say that despite my massive progress in 10 years, the skin thing undercuts me. But you are right, I'm absolutely certain every woman I've been with has had her insecurities--and like I keep saying a real solid woman won't judge me so heavily. I was with a chick who looked down on me for my loose skin, but she was a real shallow bish, and just as drak_ool has been talking about, these women can't stick through anything real anyways...be gone with them....but sure I just have to learn to better carry myself with CONFIDENCE. The problem is that the skin undercuts that, so my demeanor, my 'aura', my general body language begins to reflect that insecurity and I suddenly start to feel uncomfortable in my own skin....which of course then there goes my DJ-confidence...eroding...this aspect of myself is a true thing that does erode my confidence.

you lose fat in the reverse order that your body stores it. if the first place your body stores fat is under the nipples that's the last thing you will see go which means you have to get pretty damn cut to see that lost but that does not mean he has gyno.

for the skin just wait 4-5 months and if it has not stretched back see a doctor. it usually does you just gotta be patient. skin is very elastic. espeically if you are currently losing weight or even worse keep yoyoing up and down you are just going tovae to be patient with the skin.

I know I do have some mild gyno, as at my thinnest I still had deposits under my nipples. Really when a person is overweight going into puberty like I was, the estrogen levels especially get thrown off--coupled by this is genetic in many men (and my father and grandfather had a small amount of breast tissue--these men were not fat by any means). To some extent, this is genetic in myself but I think exacerbated by estrogen in development.

***

Buddha, I like the long hair. I have a friend of mine, we were recently talking, and he said back when he was in his 20s all he had to do was walk into a bar and start playing pool. Before long, a woman would have her hand on his @ss. I don't doubt it, because I do remember the ladies being drawn to him. He was very tall and looked like a rock star with his long hair (which was actually more in style at the time). I think the long hair sent a message that he wasn't necessarily willing to be bound by society's rules, and would be open to anything (like a girl putting a hand on his @ss).

lol thanks man, I used to keep my hair very short but I feel more like my 'true self' this way. I was getting tired of social rules and social formats, maybe the long-hair rebellion is a classic one--maybe that is part of it, more so I like the feeling of it, I feel more 'free'--it's also one of those things that adds a bit more character and spice to myself...I've learned from others and this place...capitalize on your strengths..be unique in your own ways...I think this is a good thing. I'm not too attached to the hair though, if i went bald or something I'd have to cut it down again...I'd be OK...tis my self-definition, but I like it.

***

Therapy did help a lot, doing a variety of exercise to strenghten my core, which helped me get back into surfing 8 months ago. But still, the fear is holding me back from lifting as hard as I used to or going back to fighting.

Unlike in your position, surgery would only shave the portion of the disc that is bulging, it wouldn't actually solve the problem and it would make the disc weaker, more prone to re-injury in the future.

Man, I'm genuinely sorry you have to deal with this -- how did you hurt your back originally? Deadlifts or some particular exercise? Is there anyway if they shaved the bulging disk, perhaps things like body-weight exercises would be doable?

This thread: http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=196257 one of the posters uploaded some body-weight only workouts (The Convict Workout) or something with a name like that. Man I just feel for your pain my brotha, I know how hard it has to be to want to be active and do the things you want to do but to be fighting with chronic pain.

Maybe there are things you can keep doing to reduce it from flaring up while protecting yourself from further damage?

That is one huge principle I've learned is really it's never about the weight. It's about form and feeling the weight, and feeling the contraction. I get really afraid of injury and do dial down some of my lifts because of that fear. Brotha maybe with time too doctors will better be able to repair injuries like yours.

Stay positive, there has to be ways you can keep at some general fitness things (surfing, yoga, etc) -- stay strong my man.

 

[Buddha_Mind]

that problem is no where near as bad as you made it sound dude. you probably will never have a 6 pack but you will never have probelm attracting women. you arent' a bad looking dude no homo

'speaking of body issues i'm about 2 seconds from taking a wire plier and pulling this damn tooth out good god i'm in pain. my freaking teeth it's always something. one of them is more sensitive than the others and every once in a while it just "flairs up".

Get rid of that tooth and get yourself a new set! What about just getting them ALL removed and getting the fake ones? My grandmother had this done at age 22 and nobody ever knew. She has really bad gums. The fake teeth removed her from the pain. Some of the advancements man I bet you could have a stellar grill nobody would know they were fake. They've come a long way in the last years. Plus you'd probably have the whitetest teeth on the block.

 

[ArcBound]

Buddha the important thing is how far you've progressed, and you went from fat to skinny to fit and muscular. That's an accomplishment in and out of itself.

Now I can tell you are also a very driven man and that is good thing. But the downside of a driven man is that he is never ever happy with where he currently is. Now look at you, you still get women just fine according to your post, and you are getting stronger and more fit. That's a win in my book even if you do have loose skin.

Now in high school I had cystic acne and I took Accutane on the advice of my dermatologist (never again). It blew my face up, made it extremely worse, and scarred it permanently as well as other side effects. I was depressed and had self-esteem issues very much like the ones in your post, except I carried it on my face. Now its a couple years later and it is much better, but after years of worrying myself about it I've finally accepted I may never get rid of these scars. I've tried every remedy under the sun, thought about surgery like you did, and constantly worried myself, looked at the mirrors constantly, took pictures of myself desperately hoping it would be a lot better. It took a long time but I eventually accepted it as a part of me and something that might never go away and I'm OK with that.

Something will ALWAYS be imperfect about our bodies. The best we can do is take care of what we can change and effect and not worry about what we can't.

 

[disgustipated]

I took that **** too. Horrible side.effects. remember seeing a commercial about some law firm representing people who took it.

 

[ebracer05]

Buddha,

First, I concur with the other gentlemen on this thread who think you are being overly sensitive about this. The image I had in my mind was much worse than what I saw in your pics. However, I can understand why you would feel this way... it's very easy to overly accentuate the negative things about ourselves in our minds and make them bigger than what anyone else would ever perceive.

Back on point, if you want a solution, you need to see a dermatologist. This is not a diet issue. I'm not a doctor yet, but I was actually just talking to my dad about an issue similar to this and he is a doctor. Your problem is similar to stretch marks... you gained a lot of weight rapidly and that stretched your skin out. Look up some stuff about stretch marks to see how this actually works, but essentially what's going on is your skin is made up of a bunch of fibers and when you apply a threshold level of tension to the skin, the fibers separate... and they don't reform when the tension is removed. It's a permanent problem.

If you want to deal with this, you can lower your body fat, but that won't solve the problem of having excess skin in your abdomen (and perhaps back and thighs). Since fat tissue tends to accumulate the most in those areas, that's where the greatest amount of tension was on your skin and therefore, the great amount of stretching. Unfortunately, those are the opposite proportions that a fit man wants to have; you'd like big pecs and a small mid section!

You need to see a cosmetic surgeon or a dermatologist. Honestly, surgery is the only thing that is going to fix it. You can try body wraps and all of the other remedies out there, but none of them have ever been demonstrated to work permanently and effectively. I would probably see a dermatologist first though because he will be able to tell you what the efficacy of laser therapies are right now and if some of the new topical creams they have for the treatment of cellulite might be able to help you. The lasers might, the cream... I don't know. But if a laser can keep you from surgery, I would use the laser.

As far as your breast tissue goes, that's called gynocomastia. Your dermatologist should also be able to at the very least offer you a referral to an endocrinologist or a cosmetic surgeon. I would try medication for this first. Males who use steroids like testosterone can develop gynocomastia and are able to treat it most of the time with anti-breast cancer drugs. They are most successfully used at the onset of the symptoms, but they can work even after significant time has elapsed. You'll want to look in to the drug tamoxifen and clomifene. I would prefer using both concurrently, but if you go to a conservative doctor, I would use tamoxifen over clomifene.

Ultimately, you might just have to have surgery. Make sure you talk to some people and find a surgeon who has very good suturing technique. That is critical in cosmetic operations. Who cares if you remove the extra skin and breast tissue if you the guy sews it up sloppily and leaves a bigger scar than necessary?

Go see a doctor. You can try modifying your diet, gaining more muscle, losing more fat, but that will not change the degree of stretch that has been imposed upon your skin.

 

[muscleman]

I'm gonna give you a different opinion than a lot of posters. You need the surgery, for your own benefit.

For reference, I was the opposite of you - very underweight. At 5"10 I've been 115lbs and 215lbs. I got sick of being the skinny nerd, started lifting heavy and overate. Realized over 200lbs isn't for me. I got some stretch marks as a result which have come down considerably, but I will eventually get rid of them cosmetically (going to try microderm abrasion first). I settled at 175lbs ripped.

You don't have THAT much loose skin, which is good news because if you get this done right there should be minimal scarring. You'd be surprised what can be done nowadays.

You spent 17 years trying to fix this problem and you're close to where you want to be, but not quite there. You hit the weights hard, you put in sweat equity. The surgery is just the last piece of the puzzle. Save up however you have to (moonlight job? odd jobs?), put your mind to it, and get it done.

It's not about how other people see you, which is why the "I don't see what the big deal is, it's not bad at all" is BS - because in your mind it IS a big deal and that's all that matters.

However, do your research. This is possibly the most life altering thing that will ever happen to you, so don't half ass it, i.e. don't get a garbage tat just because it's cheaper.

 

[backbreaker]

Get rid of that tooth and get yourself a new set! What about just getting them ALL removed and getting the fake ones? My grandmother had this done at age 22 and nobody ever knew. She has really bad gums. The fake teeth removed her from the pain. Some of the advancements man I bet you could have a stellar grill nobody would know they were fake. They've come a long way in the last years. Plus you'd probably have the whitetest teeth on the block.

my teeth are white now i have veneers but not all of htem. there is one int he side of my mouth that every few months just cranks up and gives me hell

 

[Buddha_Mind]

There's value in all of these perspectives. Let's be honest, a bit of loose skin around the abdomen, in the 'grand scheme of things' isn't such a big deal. I could have lost my mobility in a car wreck, or have serious burn scars, etc, etc -- clearly, this is 'small cookies' by comparison.

But none the less it does erode my well being. Muscleman your perspectives are solid, I do agree with you fundamentally and that is my mindset. Ebracer, your words are solid and exactly what I've found through online research and from some solid plastic surgeons advice (ps, there is a difference between cosmetic surgery and plastic surgery..plastic surgeons require greater training and certification)..

Arcbound, you are right also to recognize sometimes the journey we've taken--that in itself is the biggest accomplishment, rather than settling and accepting sh1t.

PS, I also took acutane and blame that for a not so fun highschool years. That sh1t dried me out like a prune, I remember skin literally flaking off of my head and lips...ughh..that sht1t was so terrible cannot believe they sell that to TEENS (I worked in pharmaceutical clinical trials once and you'd be surprised how FAST they rush these pills onto the market)...

anyone with acne I found this to be the BEST solution:

Tea Tree Oil, undiluted, applied LIGHTLY to the face with a tissue/cottonball/piece of toilet paper.

I got more response out of that than all those years of accutane. It might not be able to help any existing scarring, but it will certainly clean up your face...if anyone gives it a try and has success let me know, I've seen one other person remove their acne by using it...way better than all the abrasives in things like neutrogena face washes, etc (salicylic acid, etc)

PS, you can buy tea tree oil and most natural health stores or online. Big grocery stores don't usually carry it, but co-ops, bulk-food-stores, natural-health stores of of course the internet are great sources.

 

[FairShake]

PS, I also took acutane and blame that for a not so fun highschool years.

My educated opinion is fvck accutane. Is that sh!t even still legal? If so it shouldn't be. People pay both in dollars and health for vanity though so I'm willing to bet it is.

Good point on the tea tree oil. It won't help for severe acne but as a prevention it's great!

Buddha I had a similar problem with acne and weight for most of my life too. Even today I still have trouble with keeping weight down. I work out, play alot of basketball, ride my bike all over the city but still don't see the muscle I'd like and too much of the flab I don't like.

It used to bother me but as I got older I realized I WAS seeing the gains I needed. It was easier for me to walk up and down the stairs all day, to play soccer with my daughter, to fvck like a champ in the sack, to keep up with and smoke my friends when we're riding trails, to move patients at my job, to remodel my house, and to get my check ups every year at the doctor's. As long as you are feeling better and you are making the rest of your life easier and better you are gaining what you need to gain.

 

[ArcBound]

My educated opinion is fvck accutane. Is that sh!t even still legal? If so it shouldn't be. People pay both in dollars and health for vanity though so I'm willing to bet it is.

Based on my experience it should not be legal, and should not be so easily acquired from the dermatologist. How can something that can mess with your liver, your hormones, your mental state be legal on the market and prescribed to kids like myself baffles me.

 

[Buddha_Mind]

Based on my experience it should not be legal, and should not be so easily acquired from the dermatologist. How can something that can mess with your liver, your hormones, your mental state be legal on the market and prescribed to kids like myself baffles me.

Because the pharmecuetical industry is quick to release pills for profit before fully testing them (and how their long-term use affects human health)...

Accutane was rushed onto the market and only later do people see its relationship to the development of Crohns Disease...I remember at 16 being put on the stuff and the doc saying to my mom, "this stuff can cause depression and suicidal thoughts in some...watch him"...HOW FCVKED UP IS THAT. I don't think she knew any better, but I just think anything that's going to fck with someone's seratonin like that (or whatever it was that caused the depression I am unsure) is just totally fvcked....

Basically accutane shut down skin oil production...on the face..but also on ALL parts of the body (all areas of the epidermis where those oils are produced)...shut down the actual oil-producing mechanisms...

So fuvcked up.

 

[NEVERTOOLATE]

You were nice enough to reply my thread so I figure I would return the favor.

I was suprised when I opened the pics. I had a hard time seeing the problem. I saw a fit guy in good shape. I don't think you have anything to worry about, IMO.

This reminded me of a saying I heard that I helps me sometimes. It goes..."If you knew how often people think about you...you wouldn't care what they think about you."

To me this means most people are wrapped up in themselves they don't analyze others as they do them selves. Most women are more worried about what you think of them and their bodies than the other way around.

I hope this helps.