bible question

[backbreaker]

i am pretty well versed in the bible as i had it engrained in my growing up. i don't know what made me think about this, just laying in bed you know trying to go sleep we think about odd things. and the wierdst question popped up to me that i cannot answer


why, exactly are the poor and sick blessed in the bible? what does being poor or being sickly in it's own right on it's own merits, find you favor to god? that doesn't particarlly make sense.

say you take a person who,just doesn't have the capcility for learning as your avg person does and cannot rise up in the ranks of the world to make a decent living beucase of it why is he "blessed" beucase of this? even more so, god gave him this issue in the first place so basically god pre determins who is and is not blessed. again doesn't make sense.

someone is born with say sickle cell. why does this make that person more blessed then the person who was not born with any illness? if you want everyone to be blessed why don't you give everyone on earth an illness in the first place.


I have, or better yet i am conepleting stealing Nietzche's theory on this.

 

[OzyBoy]

God loves everyone. It does not matter who you are. Maybe God was just making a point.

 

[NobodyCares1]

it's because the whole religion is a crap... I would write more but I'm not really in the mood now...

 

[Bible_Belt]

cannot rise up in the ranks of the world to make a decent living

What ranks? Money? Is that what determines the value of a man? If that's what you think life is about, then yes, you are wasting your time by reading the bible.

 

[backbreaker]

cannot rise up in the ranks of the world to make a decent living

What ranks? Money? Is that what determines the value of a man? If that's what you think life is about, then yes, you are wasting your time by reading the bible.

lol come on BB it was 3am in the morning when i typed this up. i'm just talking off the top of my head. you know what i mean.

also, this isn't a damning the bible post. i am seriously curious.

 

[Jariel]

You've got more chance of finding logic in a woman's mind than in the bible.

 

[ArcBound]

i am pretty well versed in the bible as i had it engrained in my growing up. i don't know what made me think about this, just laying in bed you know trying to go sleep we think about odd things. and the wierdst question popped up to me that i cannot answer


why, exactly are the poor and sick blessed in the bible? what does being poor or being sickly in it's own right on it's own merits, find you favor to god? that doesn't particarlly make sense.

say you take a person who,just doesn't have the capcility for learning as your avg person does and cannot rise up in the ranks of the world to make a decent living beucase of it why is he "blessed" beucase of this? even more so, god gave him this issue in the first place so basically god pre determins who is and is not blessed. again doesn't make sense.

someone is born with say sickle cell. why does this make that person more blessed then the person who was not born with any illness? if you want everyone to be blessed why don't you give everyone on earth an illness in the first place.


I have, or better yet i am conepleting stealing Nietzche's theory on this.

Because the mass amount of people are sick and poor. So if you have a book saying a all powerful being is looking out for the sick and poor and loves them no matter what, then guess what your target demographic of that book is going to be huge. If you have a book that says god looks out for Wallstreet bankers or the rich traders of old do you think it would catch on?

 

[Alle_Gory]

God loves everyone. It does not matter who you are. Maybe God was just making a point.

That's why he lets children starve to death in Africa and help corrupt politicians dodge charges of corruption and bribes so they can buy more hookers and blow on the side.

God loves everyone, especially the wicked.

 

[Mike32ct]

My understanding is God will compensate the poor and sick for their suffering and misfortune in the hereafter. They won't be blessed in this world, but hopefully the next.

 

[Alle_Gory]

My understanding is God will compensate the poor and sick for their suffering and misfortune in the hereafter. They won't be blessed in this world, but hopefully the next.

So he purposely sets out to torment some and give others a free ride. If the God in the bible does run heaven, it's probably more hell.

 

[Dust 2 Dust]

It's just a scheme used by the elitists to get people to accept their miserable lot in life and not challenge the powers that be. The bible is just feel good mental masturbation.

 

[Bible_Belt]

why, exactly are the poor and sick blessed in the bible?

To answer your question, let's imagine your life as though it had unfolded under different circumstances. What if your dad owned a successful computer company that he just handed to you? What if you also came from a family involved with horses and dad also happened to be the best handicapper in the country and taught you everything? What I'm saying is, everything that you ever had to work to achieve, what if it were all just handed to you? How would you as a person be different?

If all of that were true, I think you'd be a complete douche. You probably know someone with that story and think the same of them. Everyone does.

My girlfriend's brother works at a government job. It's collections for the IRS, mostly telephone work. Every day, he takes two trains each way and has to walk about six blocks through the city. He makes just about enough to support his one child and three step-children.

What misery that must be, right? The thing is, he doesn't see it that way, because he's completely blind. When the Marines kicked him out for having degenerative eye disease, everyone told him that he had to apply for disability; it was a sure thing. But he thought of losing his sight as being about as significant as losing a finger or two off a hand; the idea of people thinking he was not able to work was ridiculous to him. Instead of taking disability, he went through three different schools over two years (in Arkansas), over life skills, seeing eye dog operation, and job skills. That boring job, that boring life, that most people take for granted is a tremendous accomplishment for him. The people he talks to on the phone never know he's blind

Adversity breeds character. Success destroys it. That's the answer to your question.

 

[speed dawg]

Wow, there are some Bible-hatin' folks on this forum. I sort of figured Backbreaker's question would get hit by that, but I digress. Not going to argue that side of the coin. It's amazing to me that so many go to such great lengths to discredit the Bible, probably with no experience with it. Some of you really can think up some black helicopter type conspiracy theories for sure.

I think Bible Belt's advice is spot on.

 

[backbreaker]

when something is in my head it sticks so i did about 2 hours of research on this yesterday.

this is just my personal opinion, not a fact or the "truth" or whatever, but i think Nietzche is/was spot on with his assessment.

most people think of the bible as it refers to us today but you have to first put the bible in it's proper context; this was a book written give or take 2000 years ago. and referenes stories older than that. The book is primilary about the Jewish people, and the jewish people for the most part, were slaves. They were slaves in Egypt, they were slaves in Babylon, and even when they weren't slaves, they always had someone over them telling them what to do like the Romans. They were hard wridden, people with no home as a whole. \

Most Jews, were poor. Most were worked to the bone, most had pretty meek existences in comparison to their Mesopotamian and roman counterparts.

Nietzche's point is that the bible is really a surivial strategy for the jewish people than a way you should live by today. what i mean by that is, how do you surive as a slave? you learn to turn the other cheek when your master tells you to do something that you don't want to do. you learn to deal with, accept and even realish being poor, beucase you dont' have a choice. you are poor and you will always be poor. you learn to help out one another when you can.

What the betitudes are basically saying is jesus confirming that the way that you are living is going to pay off in the other world/heaven and do not be fooled by the earthly successes of your counteparts.

I mean, being dirt poor with NO options is a tough pill to swallow. the people with the bleekist outlooks on life are usually the most religous. NO different than african am erican slaves.


i don't think there is anything wrong with the point of view above. I dont' think the bible is evil or cunning. I just think you have to look at it in the right context. that'swhy looking at it in the context of a person in 2012 doesn't make sense and you get people talking out both sides of their mouth trying to prove something that does not apply to them (not talking about you BB)

 

[Alle_Gory]

So if the bible was used as a survival strategy for the Jewish slaves at the time more than anything, it completely invalidates the "truths" it contains within. So it's not only irrelevant in today's society but it's completely false.

 

[Serialized3]

why, exactly are the poor and sick blessed in the bible? what does being poor or being sickly in it's own right on it's own merits, find you favor to god? that doesn't particarlly make sense.

say you take a person who,just doesn't have the capcility for learning as your avg person does and cannot rise up in the ranks of the world to make a decent living beucase of it why is he "blessed" beucase of this? even more so, god gave him this issue in the first place so basically god pre determins who is and is not blessed. again doesn't make sense.

Maybe, just maybe, the J-man was the ultimate liberal - that he was meant to tell us that the people in this world that come in the most disadvantaged come out ahead in his eyes, due to their intrinsic values as humans, rather than their contributions to industry or capitalism.

Beats the shit out of a lot of these cunty, randian, survival-of-the-fittest "philosophies" that I see on the board here...

 

[Serialized3]

Nietzche's point is that the bible is really a surivial strategy for the jewish people than a way you should live by today. what i mean by that is, how do you surive as a slave? you learn to turn the other cheek when your master tells you to do something that you don't want to do. you learn to deal with, accept and even realish being poor, beucase you dont' have a choice. you are poor and you will always be poor. you learn to help out one another when you can.

What the betitudes are basically saying is jesus confirming that the way that you are living is going to pay off in the other world/heaven and do not be fooled by the earthly successes of your counteparts.

I mean, being dirt poor with NO options is a tough pill to swallow. the people with the bleekist outlooks on life are usually the most religous. NO different than african am erican slaves.


i don't think there is anything wrong with the point of view above. I dont' think the bible is evil or cunning. I just think you have to look at it in the right context. that'swhy looking at it in the context of a person in 2012 doesn't make sense and you get people talking out both sides of their mouth trying to prove something that does not apply to them (not talking about you BB)

Just to be honest, and I don't really care if it pisses off the religious/conservative types on here, but christianity and other abrahamic religions really only exist to control people and keep them in line according to ancient middle eastern customs.

The inconsistencies between the old testament (death by fire!) god and new testament (hippie pussy) god are extant and easily observable. One god tells us to sow the earth with salt after violent victory, the other bipolar god tells us to turn the other cheek. What the fuck?

If you really look at it, the abrahamic god exists as a construct of man, a prescriptive, angry-daddy god that tells us what we should and should not do (otherwise we're gonna get a rough spanking). It's really just another way to control man, well, honestly, just the kind of man who's simple enough to buy into the bullshit that men in power put upon him.

 

[jafyk]

BackBreaker, perhaps you should ask the right question to begin with. Matthew 5 vs 3 says "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." the key word here is "in spirit". Do you know now see how the whole question has taken a new turn in meaning and a deeper one at that? I get that a lot of you here want to bash the bible and religion but if you must at least pick the correct quote, along with your source to begin with.
Anyway, from my Christian background I'ill attempt to answer the right question you should've been asking. I think that people who are poor in spirit are more focused on spiritual matters and get blessed in the process, since their state of mind isn't all about stuff. So, due to their focus they are more than likely to live the life to get them to heaven.
To the anti-religious folks none of what I've said should make sense to you. It's to be expected. So, let's leave it at that eh?

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

why, exactly are the poor and sick blessed in the bible? what does being poor or being sickly in it's own right on it's own merits, find you favor to god? that doesn't particarlly make sense.

My two cents:

The christian bible, particularly the new testament, was put together by bishops around 300 AD, then known as the Latin Vulgate. By that time, Christianity had become the official religion of Rome. There were plenty of texts that could have been included, so the ones that were chosen are somewhat indicative of the intentions of the rulers at that time.

sentiments such as:

blessed are the poor
the meek shall inherit the earth
turn the other cheek
give unto caesar what is caesar's
money is the root of all evil

are effective in keeping poor people from rising up in revolution, because then they would miss out on an everlasting life in heaven.

For what it's worth, the same sentiments were introduced into the general public when Tokugawa became shogun of Japan in the early 1600's (e.g. the merchants were placed as the lowest class of society, and the samurai's were considered too "noble" to earn filthy, evil, money.)

However, it's an effective myth, not only because it keeps the poor people in their place, but that it can also be interpreted to the benefit of the same poor people, as described in Bible Belt's post.

One of the reasons that the Bible, in general, has survived as an effective teaching tool for so long, is that it has so many stories/parables/sayings that can be effectively and positively applied in various situations.

While I'm an atheist, and believe the bible to used generally for social control and manipulation, it's filled with beautiful writings and stories that, when taken individually, can be applied for personal enrichment, from creating wealth, increasing social skills, and various other forms of self improvement and development.

 

[Bible_Belt]

While I'm an atheist, and believe the bible to used generally for social control and manipulation, it's filled with beautiful writings and stories that, when taken individually, can be applied for personal enrichment, from creating wealth, increasing social skills, and various other forms of self improvement and development.

That is a very advanced and mature viewpoint. All of us could learn something from any religion by taking that approach.

Regarding the history you mentioned, it is worthy to note that at the time of the Vulgate, there was very good reason for them to be concerned with rebellion. For 300 or so years of Christianity's existence, it was a rebellion. Christians not only refused to recognize the many gods of Rome, they also dared to deny that the emperor himself was a god. (btw, I think lend to Caesar what is Caesar's was a hint at his lack of being a deity.) But eventually when the Christians managed to actually convert a caesar in Constantine, the ruling powers of the empire must have understandably been in panic. It would be like the Communist Party winning the US presidential election.

So the motivation you speak of was certainly there. But for the "they edited the Bible" argument to carry weight, we'd have to find something that is inherently contradictory in the text that was cut. The truth is that most of the editing was simply duplicate material, and after all of that they were still left with four different versions of the story, the four gospels. In reading the Gospel of Thomas or anything from the Dead Sea Scrolls, it's not like you'll find parts that tell you the exact opposite of anything in the Bible. It's more like tangents and ramblings, the type of thing any good editor would remove.

Although I do concede that the official Bible may have been edited substantially to simplify a lot of the points, sometimes to the extent of only telling half the story, the idea was to make the story more powerful. Even viewing things cynically, that itself was all the effect they needed.

The gnostic works are here: http://www.gnosis.org/library

I just ran across this one: http://www.gnosis.org/library/inftoma.htm

IV. 1 After that again he went through the village, and a child ran and dashed against his shoulder. And Jesus was provoked and said unto him: Thou shalt not finish thy course (lit. go all thy way). And immediately he fell down and died. But certain when they saw what was done said: Whence was this young child born, for that every word of his is an accomplished work? And the parents of him that was dead came unto Joseph, and blamed him, saying: Thou that hast such a child canst not dwell with us in the village: or do thou teach him to bless and not to curse: for he slayeth our children.

That's my idea of a substantial Bible edit. It's also, I just realized, the plot of the science fiction story, It's a Good Life, which was the basis for one of The Simpson's halloween episodes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It's_a_Good_Life