Beta Game

[Jeffst1980]

Just wanted to comment on the OP:

Great topic Rollo--I think it's important to consider the POV of the beta, because, oddly enough, most of the conflict you will experience with women will be initiated by betas (either directly, in the form of orbiter AFCs, or indirectly, when your girlfriend compares you to her friend's overly sensitive and selfless AFC boyfriend).

My only point of contention is the supposition that beta game is ineffective. To be sure, it's not optimal and not what any of us here want; however, if the goal of the beta is simply to get married, he's actually employed the superior strategy.


For a woman, the DJ is the ideal man for a sexual relationship, and, since most relationships begin as such, he will find himself sought after as a partner. However, a man that is truly congruent to these principles (i.e. "prize" mentality, ability to walk away, dominant personality, etc.) will find that the current social climate is hostile enough to this type of masculinity to actually inspire RESENTMENT in most women after a period of time, unless these traits are watered down. For most women, it is EXHAUSTING to be with a DJ--a man that they must work to keep, that refuses to yield to social conventions and fads, and that refuses to supplicate to his partner.

Thus, the myth that DJ's never get dumped becomes exposed. The resentment grows, especially if there does not seem to be any progression to marriage in the near future, and this in turn spawns a new level of conflict and power grabs. From this point on, there is usually little hope of resolution as both parties become cognizant of these incompatibilities.


Enter the Beta. He doesn't wield the same attraction magic as the DJ--hell, he might even fail to inspire a single fantasy even during the initial infatuation stage--but, once the social pressure to "get married or die an old maid" kicks in, most women will shift their value sphere from romance-seeking to pragmatism. In the end, the beta actually gets the girl! The romantic comedies are right! Well, sort of...

Ultimately, married life for a beta becomes pure hell, especially if he is perceived as a less desirable but safer alternative. After a few years of marriage, a woman will probably start rethinking her decision to leave her DJ ex for this man that fails to excite her, and this can lead to any number of outcome, depending on her values and views on marriage.

Now the twist: The DJ may not have kept the girl, but he'll always be thought of as her "true love." Counterintuitive, but that just goes to show you how western marriage is one crazy mixed up ball of contradictions.



All this is not to cast doubt on the DJ lifestyle, or even on marriage itself. Being a DJ is a strategy for a well balanced life of HAPPINESS, SUCCESS, and ATTRACTION. It's not meant to be a strategy for maintaining a relationship or a marriage, although many of the principles carry over. If you choose to enter into LTRs and marriage, you should know that they require a level of compromise that often deviate from what we preach, mostly due to the current social conventions that inform our lives on a daily basis. The only options I see to be ENTIRELY congruent with the teachings of this site is to avoid marriage altogether, or continue filtering, filtering, filtering until you come across a woman that truly holds the values required of your counterpart.

 

[The Message Boy]

Warrior says,

Message Boy. I see what your message is, its not to help. It's not to stay on topic. It's to say the same ****ing thing you've said before over and over again

GOOD. Maybe it gets across to YOU that YOU need to do something about YOUR forum. But no, you don't do that, instead you attack the Messenger. You tell me I shouldn't say anything about the obvious PIT this forum has fallen into. It's like shooting the mailman when he brings you the junk mail YOU SIGNED UP FOR.

Warrior says,

Make the post you want to see on the forum. Start the discussions you want to discuss.

I HAVE. Numerous of times. NUMEROUS! I get no quality god damn discussions on my threads so I said **** it, I will stop making them.

I rant because I feel if this placed changed it's focus we can be a lot better for it. But yet, instead of listening to what a contributing member to the forum has to say, you say, "dont' say anything!"

No **** that. Look at this forum Warrior. Here's a perfect example from DonS

DonS says,

I don't know how many times and in how many threads Collosus and I have to point out she is a TROLL until it finally sinks in. She is nothing more than a bitter, washed up attention ***** who's constantly shifting her position in every thread to keep the attention on her. And the moment the heat is on, she quickly creates a phony thread about how humerous it is having to deal with all the males that are pissed because he is so successful with the ladies to regain his street cred.

SEE Warrior, this is the MAIN problem I'm talking about, right here. This guy has followed me from thread to thread CLAIMING that I'm some chick who posted here years ago. Where is he getting this **** from? His own mind? IF my IP Address is the same as another poster from the past on this forum I would sure as HELL like to know.

This is the ****ING problem I'm talking about Warrior! This Don ******* logs in ONLY to make conspiracy theory post. He makes NO FIELD REPORTS, he comments NOTHING on my threads about my field reports or anything, yet he follows me around posting conspiracy theories about me being some past poster.

What ****ing GROWN ASS MAN has time like Don's Warrior?? To spend all this time on dumb conspiracy ****. This guy is 35 years ****ing old Warrior. But you say NOTHING TO HIM. NOTHING. What he's doing is perfectly OK with you huh Warrior?

Warrior, you call this a ****IN MATURE MAN FORUM? And you say I SHOULDN'T call this **** out?? No **** you Warrior, you are too stuck in your own little ways around here and "comfortable" with the status quo that this place has become, that YOU DON'T WANT IT TO CHANGE. You want it to stay the shythole that it is.

Don't try and get up here talking like you "care," you don't.

 

[Warrior74]

GOOD. Maybe it gets across to YOU that YOU need to do something about YOUR forum. But no, you don't do that, instead you attack the Messenger. You tell me I shouldn't say anything about the obvious PIT this forum has fallen into. It's like shooting the mailman when he brings you the junk mail YOU SIGNED UP FOR.




I HAVE. Numerous of times. NUMEROUS! I get no quality god damn discussions on my threads so I said **** it, I will stop making them.

I rant because I feel if this placed changed it's focus we can be a lot better for it. But yet, instead of listening to what a contributing member to the forum has to say, you say, "dont' say anything!"

No **** that. Look at this forum Warrior. Here's a perfect example from DonS





SEE Warrior, this is the MAIN problem I'm talking about, right here. This guy has followed me from thread to thread CLAIMING that I'm some chick who posted here years ago. Where is he getting this **** from? His own mind? IF my IP Address is the same as another poster from the past on this forum I would sure as HELL like to know.

This is the ****ING problem I'm talking about Warrior! This Don ******* logs in ONLY to make conspiracy theory post. He makes NO FIELD REPORTS, he comments NOTHING on my threads about my field reports or anything, yet he follows me around posting conspiracy theories about me being some past poster.

What ****ing GROWN ASS MAN has time like Don's Warrior?? To spend all this time on dumb conspiracy ****. This guy is 35 years ****ing old Warrior. But you say NOTHING TO HIM. NOTHING. What he's doing is perfectly OK with you huh Warrior?

Warrior, you call this a ****IN MATURE MAN FORUM? And you say I SHOULDN'T call this **** out?? No **** you Warrior, you are too stuck in your own little ways around here and "comfortable" with the status quo that this place has become, that YOU DON'T WANT IT TO CHANGE. You want it to stay the shythole that it is.

Don't try and get up here talking like you "care," you don't.

Whatever man. Good luck.

 

[Luthor Rex]

SEE Warrior, this is the MAIN problem I'm talking about, right here. This guy has followed me from thread to thread CLAIMING that I'm some chick who posted here years ago. Where is he getting this **** from? His own mind? IF my IP Address is the same as another poster from the past on this forum I would sure as HELL like to know.

Ok I'm confused. Is it iqqi or Wyldfire posting under the name "Message Boy"?

 

[The Message Boy]

Luthor Rex says,

Ok I'm confused. Is it iqqi or Wyldfire posting under the name "Message Boy"?

Ha, dude I'm going to put it to you like this. I will continue to SPEAK whatever the hell I FEEL on this damn forum and you guys can call me a woman all day long, I don't give a damn.

Just a little warning going forward, the MORE I get responses about me being a woman the MORE I WILL POST.

I kind of figured it out now. I see why you guys say, "that's a woman" behind the username, it's because whatever the hell I'm typing in that particular thread is TRUE and goes AGAINST Sosuave's "religion."

So it's obvious to me now that I'm doing something right and it's getting to you guys, maybe you will straighten up. Thanks for giving me the confirmation that my posts are making a difference.

Ha, it's kind of like by saying, "Message Boy is really a woman" that will damper the actual response I give to the topic and WHAT I actually said. It's a ploy people use when they are LOSING an agrument to stir the conversation to the messenger and away from the topic.

80% of the members on this forum agree with what I posted up there. By you guys trying to label me a "woman" that's NOT going to change the impact of the message. I will just ACCEPT the fact that 20% of the hardcore Sosuave fanatics are going to hate me and label me all types of things from a woman to a whatever.

I'm fine with that and I will accept that. But I WILL NOT stop typing.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Since this thread has already spun completely off topic I'll just make a few observations about Message Boy's current predicament and how it relates to Beta Game. I'll try to be gentle.

First off, I don't believe Message Boy is a woman. His default responses are feminine, his mentality and approach is feminized, and like all women to varying degrees, he's attention seeking. And like more than few infamous female members of SS he had hoped (still hopes?) that this forum and community could be his catharsis.

I'm pointing this out, not to attack or flame him, but because in a sense we've failed him, or at least he feels that way, and his current attitude is the resulting backlash to the community he had thought would help him get a girl and feel better about himself. It seems as if he's throwing grenades everywhere with the Love Shack references, but he's doing so because he knows that will incense the people whose attention he wishes.

Like so many guys who find their way here, he's looking for a remedy to his life's frustration and deprivation of intimacy - but again, like too many AFCs who become aware of their condition and look for help, he thought it would be a quick fix, a formula, a program easily followed or an instant antidote for his frustrations. I can't say for certain, but my hunch is he began at Love Shack and grew tired of the standard pop-culture, feminized, "just-be-yourself" Matrix-speak advice offered by every contradictory woman there hoping to convince men to qualify themselves to them, and every sycophantic Betatized male parroting back the same to him. I understand your frustration; the results of that ambiguous yet calculated advice is designed to keep you in traction. Again, I'm not certain, but perhaps one of our own members here suggested SS to you in a PM (they'd ban anyone for linking to us on their forum) and So Suave seemed like a breath of fresh air, and gave you some hope.

I'm sure more than a few are wondering how I came to these conclusions. All it takes is just a cursory search of the threads started by Message Boy:

Anybody got any suggestions?
Looking for help
Problems with girls I'm meeting
Life issues
Sick of Girls!!

All it takes is just a quick read of the OP in each of these to see the theme of Message Boy's frustration. He's "sick of girls", sick of his own life's direction (or lack of) and since August, feels he's tried PUA / Game mentality long enough, with negligible results, to think that it's the Game that's at fault, and he'll plug back into the Matrix while taking as many chumps possible back with him in retaliation.

So with this understanding, I'll offer an apology to Message Boy. We're sorry we failed to provide you with the instant fix you so desperately (still) seek. Unplugging chumps from the Matrix is dirty work; and half of the reason for that is due to the chump not realizing that after a lifetime of feminine conditioning, transitioning from self-sublimating beta to acknowledging himself as an unashamed positive-masculine Man takes a lot longer than it does to learn a few canned Neg Hits and C&F scripts. SS is very much a "tough love" community. You're going to have your ass kicked, not because people enjoy it, but because it's so often necessary to open your eyes to your own behavior and the mental motivations for them.

Moving past your frustration and bettering yourself starts from the inside and works it's way out. It's a process that most times takes years to progress, much less perfect. You have to first change your mind about yourself and see that you will only get what you've gotten if you keep doing what you've done. I know you just turned 26 and you think that where you are today in your personal life and in your career is lacking, and you're probably right. Just understand that where you are now is a result of doing what you've done for 26 years. No one owes you anything, you owe it to yourself.

I started this thread by pointing out how it is that part of Beta Game includes accusations of "bitterness" for Men who would be even marginally critical of women. I illustrated this as a beta tactic for beta game, but I can't discount that there are some men who are genuinely bitter. The difference is that this genuine bitterness usually manifests itself in a man's self-loathing, not a well reasoned observation. Don't take this the wrong way, but I wonder if your own bitterness at the community isn't the result of your own self-loathing.

 

[The Message Boy]

Rollo well since you broke this down....

Rollo says,

First off, I don't believe Message Boy is a woman. His default responses are feminine, his mentality and approach is feminized, and like all women to varying degrees, he's attention seeking. And like more than few infamous female members of SS he had hoped (still hopes?) that this forum and community could be his catharsis.

I'm not really a "discussion forum" type of guy, so maybe I'm giving off the wrong vibes? Or the wrong non-verbal communication? Please explain to me how what I said had anything to do with being feminine?

Most of what I say is usually that this forum doesn't focus on self-development anymore and is turned into conspiracy theories or blaming women for everything.

Some of what you just typed is actually true and I will explain it further below. But I am still lost on how what I say comes off as a "woman" or a "feminist". Explain that.

Rollo says,

I'm pointing this out, not to attack or flame him, but because in a sense we've failed him, or at least he feels that way, and his current attitude is the resulting backlash to the community he had thought would help him get a girl and feel better about himself. It seems as if he's throwing grenades everywhere with the Love Shack references, but he's doing so because he knows that will incense the people whose attention he wishes.

Hmmm...I don't know if it's to get attention in the way of "hey look I'm an azzhole over here in the corner, everyone pay attention."

I think it is to get some members to focus on other aspects though, or SHIFT their attention elsewhere. Because I do believe that there's good members on this forum that I could eventually share a great relationship with and they could help me with some things and I could help them.

But, when all of the ATTENTION on the forum is going to "American Women Svck" or "Conspiracy Theories" who then will read my threads on self development Rollo? Who then will read and comment on my field reports Rollo?

The quality threads are LOST in the maze of the worthless ones, so yes, in that sense I do seek to shift the attention back to the PROPER discussions that I think would benefit EVERYONE. So in THAT sense, you are correct, I am seeking to shift the attention.

But can you say that attempt is a bad one or based on being a troll?

Rollo says,

Like so many guys who find their way here, he's looking for a remedy to his life's frustration and deprivation of intimacy - but again, like too many AFCs who become aware of their condition and look for help, he thought it would be a quick fix, a formula, a program easily followed or an instant antidote for his frustrations. I can't say for certain, but my hunch is he began at Love Shack and grew tired of the standard pop-culture, feminized, "just-be-yourself" Matrix-speak advice offered by every contradictory woman there hoping to convince men to qualify themselves to them, and every sycophantic Betatized male parroting back the same to him. I understand your frustration; the results of that ambiguous yet calculated advice is designed to keep you in traction. Again, I'm not certain, but perhaps one of our own members here suggested SS to you in a PM (they'd ban anyone for linking to us on their forum) and So Suave seemed like a breath of fresh air, and gave you some hope.

Sosuave was a breath of fresh air, but the issue is that the posters that I reasonated with no longer post from what I see, I would read their threads from years ago but they are no longer here. And I would like to get BACK to the great discussions of the past so I can interact with some of the great posters so they can comment on **** I'm going through. We're talking great ****ing therapy that's effective and free!

Now, I didn't start on Loveshack, actually I didn't even know what a Loveshack was until Jophil told me in one post that I should take my azz over there with the rest of the manginas lol.

And, to be honest, I'm not looking for a quick fix. Really Rollo, my RANTS are based upon where all the ATTENTION goes on this forum today. NO ONE reads and comments on field reports anymore. NO ONE seeks to discuss and help others grow that are really here for that growth.

I'm here for that growth, I'm not perfect and I got a ton of issues. But Rollo, nobody's reading my field reports or "growth" threads because they are all replying to trent's "American Women svck" thread or Trader's "American Women don't give us credit thread" or another one of Str8up's "Why we can't trust American Women" rants.

Sosuave was a breath of fresh air BECAUSE it focused on self development, it no longer does that. ALL I'm trying to do is say hey guys, you have folks on this forum that COULD actually use some of your input, so stop wasting time on conspiracy theories or American Women svck rants, and try to invest some time in guys ACTUALLY looking to improve.

If enough guys with this mindset ban with me, we can bring BACK this forum. THAT'S all I'm trying to do Rollo. That's it.

Rollo says,

I'm sure more than a few are wondering how I came to these conclusions. All it takes is just a cursory search of the threads started by Message Boy:

Anybody got any suggestions?
Looking for help
Problems with girls I'm meeting
Life issues
Sick of Girls!!

Perfect example. Look at how many replies I got in those threads. Those were threads where I came and laid out some of my issues. You can take ALL of the replies I got in those threads and COMBINE THEM and they wouldn't equal HALF of Trader's "Why American Women Svck and dont' give us credit" rant against women.

See what I'm talking about? That's why I get pissed off. I thought this was supposed to be about self-development, not conspiracy theories and blaming all of our problems on women.

That's what I'm talking about.

Rollo says,

Moving past your frustration and bettering yourself starts from the inside and works it's way out. It's a process that most times takes years to progress, much less perfect. You have to first change your mind about yourself and see that you will only get what you've gotten if you keep doing what you've done. I know you just turned 26 and you think that where you are today in your personal life and in your career is lacking, and you're probably right. Just understand that where you are now is a result of doing what you've done for 26 years. No one owes you anything, you owe it to yourself.

I have ALOT of problems, A-LOT.

I'm not doing "bad" but I'm not where I think I should be either. I've actually been doing ok, I got my own place and got a good amount in savings, my car is now only four years old and I got it pimped out . I still dont' really have a "problem" meeting women but I STILL have problems getting them to move forward faster, they always seem to want to delay things because they think I'm some "player."

I would like Sosuave to offer some assistance with some of the issues I have so I can GROW, but who reads growth or field reports on here anymore? No one. This forum seemed like back in the day it was a REAL place of therapy for guys to come and get assistance, today, it's becoming a side show full of crap threads that get 10 pages long and the REAL THREADS barely getting 100 views.

Rollo says,

I started this thread by pointing out how it is that part of Beta Game includes accusations of "bitterness" for Men who would be even marginally critical of women. I illustrated this as a beta tactic for beta game, but I can't discount that there are some men who are genuinely bitter. The difference is that this genuine bitterness usually manifests itself in a man's self-loathing, not a well reasoned observation. Don't take this the wrong way, but I wonder if your own bitterness at the community isn't the result of your own self-loathing.

I self-loathe ALOT. I come from a past where I was kicked out of EVERY GROUP, no matter WHERE I went I didn't fit in ANYWHERE. I deal with this issue by ignoring it, even though it comes up and causing me to snap, which is what I talked about in my "Issues Thread."

But you know the type of responses I got Rollo? I mean the few that actually responded? It was all conspiracy theory **** for the most part, maybe one poster offered some REAL assistance. The rest was crap and bull****.

So like the username says, I'm just "The Messenger Boy" don't beat up the Messenger because the forum as a whole has CHANGED IT'S FOCUS from self-development and growth to focusing it's attention on crappy topics.

Look at HOW MANY times I was called a woman on this forum? Look at DonS, he swears before God I was some female poster from the past. See what I'm talking about Rollo with the conspiracy theories? How does DonS's response HELP the forum's members with self development? It doesn't, it only serves the appetite of those that are here for conspiracy theory-based entertainment. You see how all of the "forum guys" jumped on me for just stating an opinion, why it is that NONE of these people have said ANYTHING to DonS? I mean anything?? What he does is perfectly acceptable, but what I do by just asking that we focus attention off of these crappy topics is SOO wrong that I need to be stoned and hung from the cross?

That's what I'm talking about Rollo. Forget about for a minute what you personally think about me and just try to comprehend what I just typed.

 

[Luthor Rex]

the MORE I get responses about me being a woman the MORE I WILL POST.

So when I call you a woman you are forced to post. Therefore I am controlling your actions when I call you a woman. Awesome.

Dance meat puppet!

 

[Cableguy]

Great post Rollo. Glad to see you made it over to Roissy's page.