Belief vs. Impulse

[Rollo Tomassi]

Here's a good question I don't think I've covered before -

If you were involved with a person who was smoking hot (HB10), good in bed and was for every purpose a great relationship, but had the one condition of you converting to their religious beliefs, way of thinking, philosophy, politics etc. would you compromise your personal beliefs to be completely happy with this person?

Now don't try to dodge this one with the standard "if it was perfect, she'd love me regardless" cause that sh!t doesn't fly in the real world and most people (people,.. well guys) would leave their beliefs at the door when offered a hot piece of ass.

The 'belief' question is really about compromise and what you'd be willing to do (or do without) in order to achieve an idealized emotional and sexual satisfaction. I guess asking a bunch of guys with no real religious convictions if they'd convert to Judaism to hook up with the 'perfect' female is kind of a no-brainer. Heheh,..half of the guys I know would 'convert' to anything even if the woman wasn't perfect, just willing. Interesting how religion/ideology used to be a defining factor in intimacy, yet now we'll readily throw out our ideals (if we have them at all) or 'act the part' if the intimacy (sex) is satisfactory. Is it just guys? Is 'vagina' that powerful? I wonder if women would answer this question similarly? I doubt it.

What is more important? Maybe I should rephrase the question - If you were presented with this ideal woman who was amazingly hot and was 'perfect' sexually and emotionally, but required that you move to a foreign country with them and never see your family again in your lifetime, would you do it?

 

[GuitarOnFire]

Personal beliefs are important. I wouldn't start smoking because a girl I like does it. To start changing yourself for other people means supplication and placing your ego in the hands of other people who are conditional. True self-confidence is believing something, accepting other people's opinions, and sticking to your beliefs even if other people disagree. If you're the alpha male, conformity to others isn't an option.

If people are unwilling to like the Don Juan that you are, surely then the problem lies within their personal beliefs, not yours?

 

[Desdinova]

If you were involved with a person who was smoking hot (HB10), good in bed and was for every purpose a great relationship, but had the one condition of you converting to their religious beliefs, way of thinking, philosophy, politics etc. would you compromise your personal beliefs to be completely happy with this person?

HELL NO. I'd kick her to the friggin' curb. I've been through that bull5hit throughout my entire life. Her view on religion MUST be identical to mine (anti-religion). She can be wiccan, a satanist, believe in god without religion, but she CANNOT change my personal beliefs.

That is called "conditional love". It's a lousy deal. I give up my beliefs so I can recieve love. I can get love from a kitty cat who doesn't give a 5hit what my personal beliefs are.

I've had too many people try shoving their religious bullcrap down my throat. I was on the verge of cutting church-going women out of my dating options before I got into a LTR. They wanted to take me to church and have me convert (and it seemed every church-going woman I dated was a nutcase). I successfully steered one girl I dated away from religion. An athiest well educated in the bible is a christian's nightmare

In case you're wondering, yes you hit a sore spot.

 

[JC9]

No.

I wouldn't give up seeing my family/friends for a woman. The religion thing is really a non-issue for me, so it wouldn't mean much to 'convert'.

 

[STR8UP]

Yet another reason why I will likely remain single for a long, long time.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

The operative here isn't the actual 'conversion', but the motivation behind it. JC9 and DES illustrate opposite sides of the same coin. This principle is actually the root of AFCism - the motivation for sex trumps conviction and prompts a man (and yes, I know, women in some instances) to better identify with a woman who represents his idealization. DES can (emphatically) rail against this manipulation from a religious standpoint, but what about from another angle; politics, personal philosophy, etc? The same could apply to JC9.

Remember, I'm not talking about habit here - like smoking or something (though that's the manifestation), but the impetus that challenges belief. Also, juxtapose this question to men (and women) willing to alter their lives in order to accommodate their idealizations in an LDR, or in choosing a particular career or college university.

 

[Desdinova]

DES can (emphatically) rail against this manipulation from a religious standpoint, but what about from another angle; politics, personal philosophy, etc?

I think there's a bit of an error mixing politics and personal philosophy with religion. Many religions will dictate how relationships should be carried out. The faith itself becomes the woman's choice, but the rules come along with the package. I've never heard a politician say he'll enforce the "sex after marriage" law. People disagree on how the country is run, but it doesn't directly interfere with people's relationships.

Personal choice can be a bit different. If a woman decides to stay a virgin until marriage, the man will either have to accept her personal view, force his view upon her, or ditch her.

If a woman wants to keep her own name after marriage and the man doesn't like the idea, there arises a problem. If the woman wants to live in a condo but the man wants to live in a house, there's another problem. If one wants kids and the other doesn't, well you get the picture.

One big problem when people are choosing a mate for a LTR is many don't take into account their ideas and goals for the future. If their ideas of the future are extremely different, there will be a lot of problems in their relationship down the road. If they have similar ideas about the future, they will do well together. I had to learn this the hard way.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Understood, but sexual impulse trumps conviction. Look at it from the opposite view now : The die-hard Republican will still fvck his die-hard Democrat girlfriend, regardless of conviction. I constantly advise men in similar predicaments with regards to religion. They're have a self-image of being the bastions of their faith until a smoking hot girl takes an interest in them and the inner turmoil only begins after they've compromised their convictions.

ETHNO: Point conceded, but again the facility and convenience with which people will disregard or modify their "personal belief" is what you have to compare the motivation to. It's either the impulse is more dominant than the conviction, or else there was no real conviction to begin with and thus easily changed to accommodate conditions.

 

[Desdinova]

I constantly advise men in similar predicaments with regards to religion. They're have a self-image of being the bastions of their faith until a smoking hot girl takes an interest in them and the inner turmoil only begins after they've compromised their convictions.

I've seen some pretty nasty suppression of desires, but I think that gets more into the "cult" category where brainwashing occurs. People will link sexual desire to a negative feeling and will go years not acting on their desires. Even after they marry and attempt to have a sex life, their negative feelings will kick in and sex will be disappointing for both parties.

 

[Captain AFC]

Interestingly enough, even some religious perspectives admit that the touch and feel of a woman can lead men away from their particular views. Being a Christian myself, I can only speak from the point of view I know, but to give an example:

There are numerous examples in the Old Testament in which God tells his people not to intermarry with "the foreigners" from certain towns, etc. This had nothing to do, I feel, with them being "dirty" or some strange form of divine teasing, but rather because the exotic women that these men were seeing were followers of another religious practice, sometimes practices that involved sacrificing other human beings, etc. But really, it didn't matter if the religion was "good" or "bad," just the fact that these women were not of the same ideology and/or lifestyle.

But the men end up intermarrying anyway, and chaos usually ensues because men give up more of themselves, taking on the beliefs of their spouses. Solomon would be the greatest example of that. Despite asking for wisdom, and receiving it, the need for intimacy still convinced him to take on wives from different faiths, and they still ended up convincing him to install their religious beliefs into his culture.

In essence, a man comprimising his religion... no, his integrity, for a woman isn't new.

While I didn't have a different "religion" from my previous relationship, we did have very different outlooks on how to live life based on religious ideology. It's not her fault that I comprimised myself, nor is it necessarily a bad thing to compromise, but I still ended up kind of surrendering bits of myself in that instance. Some men have done worse, I know.

I have to freely admit, that in a past time, I would have just accepted the practices of another individual. I know I wouldn't "convert," but yeah, since being under the addiction of "needing a woman," the perfect girl would probably drive me to do anything. These days, I've been focusing on just talking to women and detoxing myself from "needing them." Better to just be friendly, get to know them, and work on myself. Impulse is something I suppose a lot of guys are under a hold form.

 

[legolas]

No way!! :nono: There are way too many women out there that would not have those restrictions, so I'd end the realtionship.

 

[TheTrader]

the thought of being entangled to one single woman for my whole life scares me enough even without the additional punishments.

 

[Wyldfire]

I'll answer this honestly...

My values are a huge part of who I am and the ones that are firm won't budge for anything...even love.

I'm a very spiritual person and believe in God...but I don't much care for organized religion. I don't know if I'd "convert" to any religion...but I would attend church if it were important to the guy and I loved him. If a guy were a Jehovah's Witness or Mormon I wouldn't get involved with them. I love celebrating holidays and special occassions and there is no way I'm giving up my coffee.

Would I move to another country and never see my family or friends again? No, I wouldn't. I would move to another country with another American after all my kids are grown but only if I were able to return to visit frequently.

I would not give up my beliefs, views, goals, dreams, values, my family, coffee or holidays and special occassions for anything...even love. Oh...I wouldn't give up meat or seafood either. There's likely lots more I wouldn't give up as well...but you get the picture.

 

[newbie81]

Here's a good question I don't think I've covered before -

If you were involved with a person who was smoking hot (HB10), good in bed and was for every purpose a great relationship, but had the one condition of you converting to their religious beliefs, way of thinking, philosophy, politics etc. would you compromise your personal beliefs to be completely happy with this person?

Now don't try to dodge this one with the standard "if it was perfect, she'd love me regardless" cause that sh!t doesn't fly in the real world and most people (people,.. well guys) would leave their beliefs at the door when offered a hot piece of ass.

The 'belief' question is really about compromise and what you'd be willing to do (or do without) in order to achieve an idealized emotional and sexual satisfaction. I guess asking a bunch of guys with no real religious convictions if they'd convert to Judaism to hook up with the 'perfect' female is kind of a no-brainer. Heheh,..half of the guys I know would 'convert' to anything even if the woman wasn't perfect, just willing. Interesting how religion/ideology used to be a defining factor in intimacy, yet now we'll readily throw out our ideals (if we have them at all) or 'act the part' if the intimacy (sex) is satisfactory. Is it just guys? Is 'vagina' that powerful? I wonder if women would answer this question similarly? I doubt it.

What is more important? Maybe I should rephrase the question - If you were presented with this ideal woman who was amazingly hot and was 'perfect' sexually and emotionally, but required that you move to a foreign country with them and never see your family again in your lifetime, would you do it?

Religion: I'm atheist, hadn't baptsim. For me marriage in church is not possible. As woman in my country are often christianism & love the "marriage in church" thing, I wouldn't go through baptism for a woman, let alone turn over to that ****ty christianism. Same thing for other religions.

So yes in this case I would have to drop this woman. But I believe that a woman that really is into me, would drop her belief to be with me (& this would be a proof that she wants to with me no matter what).


Politics: I'm the one that chooses for who I vote, I have strong interests in politics (specially world politics & economy). With my current gf who has a HIGH DEGREE & things she knows it all, I'm the one who tries to change over her political beliefs. (For example: Making her understand why Bush is an as even big terrorist as Osama). +
My political beliefs are based upon what I read in the newspaper, not what somebody (& especially women) tell me.
Which woman is now interested in politics anyway??

Moving to another country, to another city -> HELL NO.
Letting her decide where I live -> HELL NO
Letting her decide what happens with my life -> NO NO NO

I got my personal beliefs that I won't quit for anybody, but I have respects for other people opinions/convictions as long as these doesn't interfer with mine.

Women loves men that have strong beliefs (& ambitions/plans) that they won't quit for anybody.

Lose your beliefs == lose women.

I think that most woman will lose their beliefs to be with a guy if they really are into him & take over his beliefs.