Being setup for failure by society

[backbreaker]

I'm sitting here randomly thinking...

The avg guy, goes to high school, gets a's and b's, good enough to get into college but not good enough to get a full ride... he can probably get some scholly from his church or something but at the end of the day he's going to have take out student loans.


Then, you get to college, you get credit card companies throwing all these new cards at you, and you aer using them while you are in school becuase well.. you are in school.

You graduate college, you are now about 25k in the hole (if you are lucky) with your degree in Business Administration, you get some entry level job making 30k a year somewhere. You've screwed your credit up already in college so buying a house is out of the picture at least now, you are in debt as well.

Well, now it's time to live like an "adult". "adults" have real cars. So you scrum up 2 grand somehow and go to the car lot, put 2 grand down on that used 2-3 year old camary that's your "starter car" (little do you know this is probably the best car you will own in your life), and you are paying 350 a month as well. That's another 15k in debt you are.

Now you have to get things like insurance, and well you are a professional now, you have to have a professional wardrobe.

Don't even talk about if you are religious and you are like my mom where no matter WHAT 10% of your check is going to church, no questions asked.

Then, you meet a girl. hell I don't know where but you meet her. She meets you. She's in debt but as of now, you really don't give a damn. She's cute, she's half ass into you. 6 months later it just makes sense to move in together with each other. And the wedding ring tango begins. when will he propose.

so eventually you have to propose.. because that's what guys like you do. So now you have to pay for a wedding, on top of your car, you don't have a house, you are still in debt with student loans, you are credit card maxed up to your eyeballs


And some how you are wired, or not right or a loser if you don't follow this path.

When you add up the car, if you are lucky enough to HAVE a house, it's probably upside down, the student loans, the debt from credit cards.. the avg 30 year old is ****ed trying to life like everyone else.


No real point i'm trying to make..that's just a very sobering thought. The avg 18 year old freshman in college has just laid out his path to his life when he stepped foot on campus.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

I remember once I walked in on my boss and some older, philosophical type engineer, who never married. They were talking about this very thing. Except they had it graphed out, and had the different sections of life labeled.

The portion after retirement they had labeled "wait to die"

life is a series of choices. Some are lucky and get good advice when we are young, others are smart enough to make and learn from mistakes. Others, as some sage once said, "live lives of quiet desperation."

Fukk that noise.

But you're right. The more "responsibility" you take on (debt, house, cars, marriage, family) the less choices you have, and the more your path seems certain.

However, they are choices, despite how much pressure, it is you who decide them. Something I think Frost alluded to in "The Road Not Taken"

 

[squirrels]

Funny, isn't it?

I'll tell you...it gets lonelier every day when you choose not to walk "the path".

I don't believe that there's some secret conclave somewhere that's setting aside the "proper path" in life, but damned if these patterns DON'T arise naturally out of human evolution. Then the "shaming" comes...people so insecure with the lives they've chosen that they start wondering "what's wrong with you" if you're not doing the same thing.

Then it gets even crueler...if you don't fall in line with a simple shaming, those people start getting afraid that you might be somehow "right" to follow a different path, and it calls THEIR whole life into question. So suddenly they don't even want to associate with you.

Add to that the sales geniuses out there who realize that they can sell things like houses and cars to a FAMILY, which is now a 2+ income unit, instead of pricing them to an INDIVIDUAL, and you have social coercion PLUS financial coercion to "settle down" and get attached. People start thinking, "Hell, I can SAVE MONEY if I move in with my girl." And it happens.

Then they're stuck. The woman gets knocked up because a child is not only an eternal source of self-validation, it's also her guarantee that she can continue to rely on his finances forever. What's HIS guarantee?

The whole game is a joke.

I'm not wealthy, by a longshot. I'd love to come up with a "business idea" and break out of the rat-race, but as yet, it hasn't hit me.

But I have NEVER carried a debt on my credit card. I was fortunate enough to get a couple of scholarships and I took out the BARE MINIMUM in student loans...paid them off when I first got work. It's the first thing I did. I received letters from those f*cks for a year offering to "consolidate my student debt" until they realized they didn't have their hooks in me any more...then they started sending me credit-card offers.

That's all a credit-score is, really...it's a number indicating how much blood they can legitimately hope to squeeze from you. That's why your credit score is LOWER if you don't HAVE some debt or a couple of credit lines, LOWER if you don't have assets to borrow against, LOWER if you even make too many credit INQUIRES...suggesting that you might already be committed elsewhere.

The finance professors call college loans "borrowing against future earnings". What students don't realize as they're sitting in class eating this tripe up is that once they GET to the future, they'll be sitting there wondering why they aren't getting paid for their drudgery for the rest of their natural lives.

All the while those tenured finance professors are sucking off the teat of your tuition and telling you, "go further into debt! Debt is good!" Of course colleges want you to take out loans...if you can get credit, they get paid by the banks, and they can afford to jack up your tuition if student loans are the RULE and not the EXCEPTION. Have you seen how the price of college keeps rising?

Same thing happened with banks and home loans. I remember clearly when I was in the market for a house, the loan officers say ridiculous crap like, "You can afford TWICE as much house. You're young, so your income is going to appreciate over time as you get raises..." Yes, go FURTHER INTO DEBT, while they sit there and sell your junk-bond mortgage off to someone willing to gamble that you won't default on it. The lenders don't even COLLECT interest on your loan...they sell it off as a mortgage-backed security and laugh all the way to the bank at poor sucker-companies like Countrywide who bought all this debt and then went belly-up when they realized that these greedy bastards selling the loans overextended themselves.

Then when the economy tanks, there's no more credit, no more blood to be drawn. Everyone loses their jobs because companies can't stay in business. The people's "future earnings" have evaporated. What now? They default on their houses, they default on their cars, they default on their student loans. The economy dives even FURTHER.

And all that Wall Street can talk about is, "What do we need to do to get the banks LENDING again? What do we need to do to get credit flowing??"

The average financial dilemma of the average American citizen reminds me of one of these guys who is serving 3 or 4 life-sentences...how many lives does he have to give?

Look at how leveraged the US is to China...and we KEEP borrowing to "balance" our budget...China practically owns us.

Now I'm not against credit entirely. Credit is wholly NECESSARY for businesses to function. Many businesses couldn't DREAM of getting started or being able to supply themselves on a cash-basis.

I'm not even completely against CONSUMER credit. I'll admit, a modern house, although overpriced, is still priced higher than a man can simply drop a ton of cash on...unless he lives back with mom and dad for a couple of decades and "saves up".

But the overpricing of goods in America, coupled with the ENCOURAGEMENT of irresponsible consumer credit...as taiyuu said, "F*CK THAT NOISE".

And if you don't let them get a hold of your nuts, the ones who ARE "in the matrix"...they shame you, then they get scared of you, then they run from you.

Wow...ever start typing and then look back and realize just HOW much of a rant you are on?

Good thread, at any rate.

 

[Mr.Positive]

Well, I'm glad you guys 'get it', however I hope most people don't.

Debt is a form of slavery, and our whole economy is driven by consumption. As long as most people are locked into it, the wheel will continue to turn. If people actually start to wake up, look out below...

Our government created inflation for example, for this very reason, as a form of tax to those of us who choose not to consume.

We will always have bubbles that grow to extremes, then burst. We can thank keynsesian economics, and our policies that follow them.

 

[logic1]

Debt is a form of slaveryQUOTE]

How true.

I dont think you need to follow the notion that you need to go into debt to be sucsessful. Im sure it appears that way to most people. But if you step back and look at the whole picture with an open mind things are not the way you think.

Drive around the area where you live. If you live in the center of a large city get out and explore the fringes or country side. Pay attention to all the ways people are making a decent living. 90% of them dont require a college education. I would venture to say the majority of wealth is held by people with a high school education.

Most of the wealthy people I know did not buy into the main stream society.

Of course the doctors, lawyers, and banker likes are a different story.

 

[Mr_Schlong]

The thread title is a little bit too whiny for me

Hey guys,

interesting topic you're discussing here.
Let me share my view as a foreigner. I'm from germany.
One of the most impressing thing of your country is the freedom you guys have.
You decide how hard you want to work on your education. If you are in the top group of your profession, you can make a lot more money than you could in most other countries in the world.
If you're just average, you'll lead a life as hard as any middle class man in the rest of the world.

Maybe you think your society expects you to buy sth. on credit card, and maybe you know that this expectation will lead to a situation of dependency.
If you really think you have to fulfill these expectations, then in my eyes you haven't developed enough backbone to resist these seductions.

I mean, you're in a pickup forum. You should have realized already that what society expects of you is not in your best interest. You know that if you follow the common sense that a guy has to take a girl on an expensive first date, then your chances of ****ing that girl dramatically lowers.
If you follow the McDonalds and BurgerKings adds and eat everyday that crap, you will not lead a healthy life like the people in their adds suggest.

If you mary just because it is expected from a guy like you, then it is your own fault if, after your marriage broke, you find yourself in a situation of total financial disaster.

And if you think you have to buy all that crap advertisement suggests, like cars on credit, houses you know you can't redeem the mortgage for, cool but unnecessary stuff like IPhones, expensive travelling etc, then its your own fault.

You can't blame companies for trying to sell their unneccessary stuff. They do what is in their best interest.

It's up to you to start thinking. And do what is in your best interest.
This is one of your first rights: do what is in YOUR best interest, not what is in societies, governments, girls, mums, or anyone else's interest.

 

[Mr_Schlong]

The thread title is a little bit too whiny for me

Hey guys,

interesting topic you're discussing here.
Let me share my view as a foreigner. I'm from germany.
One of the most impressing thing of your country is the freedom you guys have.
You decide how hard you want to work on your education. If you are in the top group of your profession, you can make a lot more money than you could in most other countries in the world.
If you're just average, you'll lead a life as hard as any middle class man in the rest of the world.

Maybe you think your society expects you to buy sth. on credit card, and maybe you know that this expectation will lead to a situation of dependency.
If you really think you have to fulfill these expectations, then in my eyes you haven't developed enough backbone to resist these seductions.

I mean, you're in a pickup forum. You should have realized already that what society expects of you is not in your best interest. You know that if you follow the common sense that a guy has to take a girl on an expensive first date, then your chances of ****ing that girl dramatically lowers.
If you follow the McDonalds and BurgerKings adds and eat everyday that crap, you will not lead a healthy life like the people in their adds suggest.

If you mary just because it is expected from a guy like you, then it is your own fault if, after your marriage broke, you find yourself in a situation of total financial disaster.

And if you think you have to buy all that crap advertisement suggests, like cars on credit, houses you know you can't redeem the mortgage for, cool but unnecessary stuff like IPhones, expensive travelling etc, then its your own fault.

You can't blame companies for trying to sell their unneccessary stuff. They do what is in their best interest.

It's up to you to start thinking. And do what is in your best interest.
This is one of your first rights: do what is in YOUR best interest, not what is in societies, governments, girls, mums, or anyone else's interest.

 

[squirrels]

Debt is a form of slaveryQUOTE]

How true.

I dont think you need to follow the notion that you need to go into debt to be sucsessful. Im sure it appears that way to most people. But if you step back and look at the whole picture with an open mind things are not the way you think.

Drive around the area where you live. If you live in the center of a large city get out and explore the fringes or country side. Pay attention to all the ways people are making a decent living. 90% of them dont require a college education. I would venture to say the majority of wealth is held by people with a high school education.

Most of the wealthy people I know did not buy into the main stream society.

Of course the doctors, lawyers, and banker likes are a different story.

That's another beef I have. Back in "the day", high schools used to have multiple career paths...you could take academic programs and prepare for college, or you could take more technical-skill programs and prepare for a trade job.

At some point, schools started getting judged (and funded) by how many kids they sent to college. So any kid that shows aptitude at ANYTHING, they try to get into some college program.

And the colleges are more than happy to accept people who don't belong there...as long as they're paying.

As a result, the trades have suffered...they're overflowing with losers while truly skilled people are forced into some office-job that doesn't use their talents.

 

[backbreaker]

squirrels, right before I met my fiancee I was dating a woman that was a senior in college getting her degree in finance. we had the debt argument all the time. "there is good debt and bad debt". "Debt can be good". Needless to say she has about 50k in student loans now and a car note. I hate debt. right now I am about 2% utilization on my credit cards and i could pay that off tomorrow if I had to. pisses the cc company off every time i call, they can't get me to spend money.

I would be lying if I said I had no debt, I do. But it's all by choice and I could pay it all off tomorrow if I so chose. the 2-3% utilization on my credit cards, I really don't like carrying around cash so I have an amex card which I do pay off every month, usually about $1,500 or so worth a month. Also, I bought a new car on my birthday for myself and I bought my fiancee a car the Christmas before last.. I paid the vast majority of both off, but took out loans on the balance just to pay something on something on a monthly basis. Credit Lines. Both are brand new cars one is "up there" in price and my GF has a 2009 Nissan Maxmia SL that I pay 150 a month on.

I would never take out a debt that I could not pay off if I so chose, when I so chose. I don't like debt but I like to be able to take on debt if need be for some unknown reason.


debt CAN be a necessary part of a business. Take a stallion farm (thoroughbreds). Now, stallion farms get paid when a newborn "stands and nurses". That means when the foal is born and starts feeding. This is usually sometime between January and march. So for 9 months a year, the only money they have coming in is board for the pregnant mares at their farm. A bridge loan from a bank goes a long way for operating expenses, then you just pay them back in January when the money comes in. This is how all but about 5-6 stallion farms operate the ones that are just that big they don't need the money.


When I first moved to Del mar I rented a house simply becuase I did not know how long I was going to be here. Once I decided to make socal my home I went in the house market. I was in a position where I knew I was going to buy my house. That is, give cash for the title. I was not going to finance my house. But the real estate agents did not know this, and the **** I was hearing while looking at houses, them telling me what I could and could not afford.


When I was in high school I could have very easily went to college, but even then I knew, despite what everyone was telling me, I did not have to go to college to do what I wanted to do at the time. I knew I wanted to have something to do with computers. So instead of wasting 4 years in college, my senior year in high school, instead of partying with my friends, I took night classes at a vocational school that gave A plus certifications. By Valentines Day I was A plus certified and by August I was CIW certified.

While my friends were freshman in college I had already had a job doing what I wanted to do paying about $22 an hour. Not bad for an 18 year old. More importantly, with no debt.


More importantly, had i been in college somewhere, when I ran into my future business partner, I would have had an obligation/tie down to school. I would have had to take out some loans in school and I can't start a business and have loans. My life would have taken a totally different path.

 

[sodbuster]

Doctors,lawyers etc. have the same problems as the rest. Figure 8-10 years in school[not making a living-opportunity costs],coming out 100k in debt[at least] and having a wife and society expecting you to "live like a PROFESSIONAL". So you can be talked into buying a bigger house and better car than you really need.

There are 2 Dentists in town with million dollar houses-probably 5000 +sq feet that will die by the chair-never be able to retire. You can't be 54 and build a house that wipes out your savings acount and plan on retiring in 10 years. While I am it debt,it's for 640 acres of farmland in a high wind area. If the green energy ever really kicks in, the leases on the wind turbines footprint area will let me retire at my current spending level. I'll keep working because I don't want to have only 1 income source for the next 30 odd years. I've talked to several MD's who retired in the last 5 years who wished they had worked a few more years[with the market acting like it has].

 

[backbreaker]

Doctors,lawyers etc. have the same problems as the rest. Figure 8-10 years in school[not making a living-opportunity costs],coming out 100k in debt[at least] and having a wife and society expecting you to "live like a PROFESSIONAL". So you can be talked into buying a bigger house and better car than you really need.

There are 2 Dentists in town with million dollar houses-probably 5000 +sq feet that will die by the chair-never be able to retire. You can't be 54 and build a house that wipes out your savings account and plan on retiring in 10 years. While I am it debt,it's for 640 acres of farmland in a high wind area. If the green energy ever really kicks in, the leases on the wind turbines footprint area will let me retire at my current spending level. I'll keep working because I don't want to have only 1 income source for the next 30 odd years. I've talked to several MD's who retired in the last 5 years who wished they had worked a few more years[with the market acting like it has].

that's a pretty heady plan man.

when I sold cars way back in the day I ended up selling cars for infiniti when it was all said and done. you'd be surprised how many 500k a year sub prime car deals I did.
one doctor..he is one of I think only 2 doctors in the world that can do a certain type of surgery.. i forget what it is, I **** you not, made 83k a month and could not get a loan for an infiniiti QX56, was made to put 20k down as colletral and still had 4 figure payments, but he had to have the car. peer pressure is a *****.

Nor did he have the 60k on hand to buy the car straight up.

how does a man making 85k a month not have 60k in savings is beyond me.

 

[wait_out]

"Buy this car to drive to work, drive to work to pay for this car..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYcLm2yM1hQ

 

[Jules Verne]

I would love to hear from you guys how one can learn personal finance.

I am in college, and I thought about taking some business classes to educate myself. However, my guess is that they won't do **** for me in terms of how I manage my money in the future.

Are there resources that you guys know that would be helpful to someone like me?

 

[Mr.Positive]

I would love to hear from you guys how one can learn personal finance.

I am in college, and I thought about taking some business classes to educate myself. However, my guess is that they won't do **** for me in terms of how I manage my money in the future.

Are there resources that you guys know that would be helpful to someone like me?

Jules, when I graduated college, times were a bit different. I was able to work full time pumping gas, delivering pizzas, etc and pay for my education. When I graduated, the economy was booming. I had my choice of jobs. I graduated debt free, with lot's of opportunities. It was an exciting time, one that I think every young man should experience.

Currently, with unemployment so high, college graduates have more challenges, finding work, and being able to pay for the high education costs associated with higher degrees.

If I were in your shoes, I'd try very hard to be debt-free. If you can do that, though may not be possible, you will have much more freedoms of choice when you do finally graduate. You'll have a degree, and the whole world around you to conquer.

If you graduated with debt, especially large debt, you graduate a slave to the system, and must take basically any job you can get to stay afloat.

Also, try to have some fun too.

 

[Warrior74]

I would love to hear from you guys how one can learn personal finance.

I am in college, and I thought about taking some business classes to educate myself. However, my guess is that they won't do **** for me in terms of how I manage my money in the future.

Are there resources that you guys know that would be helpful to someone like me?

Right now I'm working the Dave Ramsey plan to get debt free. I ended up selling my flat screen, my guns, my djing equipment and working three jobs to pay off all of my outstanding debts. I also started a freelance business using only the resources I have which has allowed me to quit my two hourly based jobs (pizza delivery, mall studio photographer). I had a $1000 emergency fund but I some unexpected bills came up and I'm back to restocking my emergency fund. I've paid off all of my credit cards but one ($200 balance) which leaves my computer, car and college loan debts. I should have the computer paid off in a couple of months and the car next year. It's going to take a few years for the college loans.

I've been eating in and cooking more, not going out or keeping it cheap when I do, and not buying clothing or going on trips or anything for the last two years. It sucks...and it's severely affected my dating life...but fvck it..I still have to live when I'm old, woman or no woman.

Check out Dave Ramsey's seven baby steps. It's a good starting place.

http://www.daveramsey.com/new/baby-steps/

 

[LeftyLoosey]

This kind of thread is why I love this place. I wish I could meet all of you guys in real life. Anyway, I digress...

I'm living an alternative financial lifestyle myself, but I was VERY close to ending up in the middle of a debt nightmare.

I haven't even been officially divorced for a year yet, so this is all very fresh, but I got married a little less than 3 years ago, only a year after buying a 400k+ house with my ex. I also had a $400/month car payment and we were in the process of trying to have kids when I pulled the plug.

We were both of the "keeping up with the Jones'" mindset, constantly upgrading our standard of living as the money rolled in. Between the two of us we were making about $150k/year and spending all of it.

Now I live in a 600 sq. ft apartment in the city, with a good job, and no car. I walk to and from work, which is a 20 minute walk. I easily save $2k/month and have no debt whatsoever.

Here's the problem: ALL of my friends live outside of town, 15 minutes+ by car. 95% of them are married and probably 80% of those have kids. The unfortunate consequence of all this is that outside of work, I barely see anyone. In my world, at my age, if you don't have a car, a house, and a wife with or without kids, you're going to be very lonely.

At work, I'm constantly being asked why I don't have a car, or how I could POSSIBLY want to rent an apartment instead of "owning" a house (by the way, unless your mortgage is paid off, you don't own your house. The concept of home ownership is a clever marketing ploy). While I'm "throwing my money away" in rent, guess what, home "owners" are throwing their money away in interest payments, home insurance, property tax, utility bills, and maintenance costs. They're also throwing money away on car loans (because you HAVE to have a car to drive the distance you need to live from the city to be able to afford a house+land that isn't the size of a postage stamp), gas, car insurance, and car maintenance.

Not only that, but you have to buy and maintain all the crap you need to fill up your house. Most importantly, having and taking care of all these things as well as commuting to/from work takes up your time, the most precious thing of all.

Almost no one takes any of these things into account when they compare renting vs. owning. I will NEVER own property again. It's not a difficult decision for me because I don't want to have kids, so I don't need to live in anything the size of a house.

Speaking of which, any of my friends who have kids are completely broke. With the cost of living these days, having kids is a death sentence for your finances. The middle class is being completely and utterly robbed, and I live in Canada where I'm not even taking health insurance into account. For those of you in the States, I have no idea how you do it.

Breaking out of the relationship Matrix was hard enough, but staying out of the financial Matrix can be even harder. Inflation is a big concern, because interest rates in savings accounts do not keep up with inflation, and my money in my savings account is actually depreciating in value. Fortunately I'm avoiding the rising cost of gas ($80/barrel oil in a recession is scary), so food is my primary concern. I'd invest in stocks but the markets can't be trusted anymore; it's too much of a gamble. Half of my savings are in a 3.25% earning GIC, so that'll have to do.

The key is to surround yourself by like-minded people. In the same way that people with fat friends tend to get fat, if you hang out with thrifty people who avoid debt, then it's easier to maintain that lifestyle. That's something I need to work on myself, but it's challenging.

 

[Blue Phoenix]

Business wise....

Some areas of business world encourages risk taking, shallowness and backstabbing while being unenmotional in the process. Business is often about money, control, power or even sex. Here comes the kicker>>
The business sections of many stores are filled with books on leadership and success within the corporate world. All are usually written in positive light. Curiously the darker side of it is less discussed, in spite the fact that sometimes the most aggressive, unruly, ruthless and cold individuals rise to the top in companies actually foster this behavior.

Remember the case of Apple employing children?

Robert greene said, they´re throwing dust in our eyes, while they get all the credit. It doesn´t mean we have to be ruthless but we have to be aware of the rules and know how and when to bend them, if necessary.

 

[Mr.Positive]

Now I live in a 600 sq. ft apartment in the city, with a good job, and no car. I walk to and from work, which is a 20 minute walk. I easily save $2k/month and have no debt whatsoever..

That's a great lifestyle right there Lefty, I wouldn't own a car if I didn't need one. I too, live in a small living space. Unfortunately, throughout most of the US, our public transit system is severely lacking. Hopefully that will start changing for the better, I think it will.

Having no debt is a lifestyle, for sure. A fantastic one. The day all debt is paid, is just hard to put into words. It's like having the chains around your ankles freed, and you just spring forward with this new energy..

New energy towards life, and there's nothing holding you back, trying to keep you down. Every dollar you earn is yours.

I'll never go back to a debt-based lifestyle, and you are right, very few people choose this. This is why I do not discuss my financial situation with anyone, or very few people. I'd rather that people think I'm a bit lower on the social economic scale.

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear Backbreaker,
I suppose again my take is different again,I gained several professions without any debt...Funny thing was I went down the vocational ladder,learnt every Building trade there was also Mechanical and metal working skills,even owned a farm once,still grow my own vegetables,repair my car....So I have always aimed at self sufficiency...I was in todays values a Millionaire at about 33...I have never been in debt...My parents were upper working class,no schooling....I have in my life been aptitude tested several times,the universal result was a bit above average intelligence and a very poor level of mechanical aptitude...Make what you will of this but it is true.

 

[backbreaker]

Dear Backbreaker,
I suppose again my take is different again,I gained several professions without any debt...Funny thing was I went down the vocational ladder,learnt every Building trade there was also Mechanical and metal working skills,even owned a farm once,still grow my own vegetables,repair my car....So I have always aimed at self sufficiency...I was in todays values a Millionaire at about 33...I have never been in debt...My parents were upper working class,no schooling....I have in my life been aptitude tested several times,the universal result was a bit above average intelligence and a very poor level of mechanical aptitude...Make what you will of this but it is true.

I have no idea what this post is about




There are some iron rules I live by when it comes to finance. First off, 20% of all my incomes goes into my savings account. I have trust issues when it comes to banks, big ones, so I don't get overly fancy when it comes to CD's and pretty much anything other than I know. It's habitual now. 20% = savings account. no if's ands or buts. Saving is a good habit. You will never be independent if you can't save money. It also gives me the flexibility to do things (like pay a large, very large sum of money for my house on the spot)

I would not call myself fugal. I'm extremely high maintence. Little **** I take for granted that I do adds up. my grocery bill for my family is damn near 300 dollars a week. We eat and eat good and it's just three of us. That is usually just replenishing what we have cooked. My Fiancee is here so she usually throws something together 7 days a week at least 2 meals a day. I like big boy breakfasts on sunday morning.. I usually eat healthy but I cheat big time on sunday mornings. This morning we had french toast, hash browns, pancakes, eggs, bacon and orange juice. I get a massage at least once a week, at least. I get my nails done once a week, get my hair cut once a week, I eat out at least 3 times a week including lunch sometimes, does not include the I don't have time to cook somethign for lunch and subway is a few blocks from the gym let's get a 6 inch wheat roast beef sub. I have every freaking TV channel you can imagine, I have a pretty extensive alcohol collection, a movie collection (non downloaded) that is at least 500 movies and a library that takes up 1 room, which sadly and goes to show how pitiful our society is, was not that expensive. books are dirt cheap. I dont' consider the books a liability. the movies, I generally go and just pick up 2-3 movies a week. it adds up. TV shows...stuff like that.

But i really don't just BLOW money. At least I don't think so. I live well within my means, my means are just higher than the avg persons. But even with that said, if i really want something fvck what you think or how it looks I am going to get it because I earned it. I could care less about keeping up with anyone.

I work too hard not to enjoy life or enjoy the things I want. But the things I want I earn them then pay for them. A novel concept in today society.

right now I want to move to malibu. There is a house that is for sale... that I would **** on myself to live in. I've been in it. I even dabbled around with the of moving in it. I could afford it.. but me moving into the place and paying over 10k a month easily on a mortage goes against every principle I stand for and I have a pretty damn nice house as it is.
It would also mean I would have to cut back on some other ventures I like to do. I would not be able to throw personal money into a project i have going becuase i would be worried about paying my mortgage. Iw ould not be able to go and buy yearlings at the upcoming sale at keeneland becuase you are going to pay every bit of 3,000 a month to keep a horse in training in California.

No, I will build my business to a point where I can sale it then buy the house, or build the house, I want to move in. And hell i'm 26.