Being "in love" with a woman - only for AFCs'?

Zunder

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Well, what do you all reckon?

Very simple question, probably a very complicated answer.

How do you DJ's show your love without turning AFC?

Game is game - it is not love.
..........or is it?

SO, my inherently self fulfilling answer - I do not allow myself to fall in love.

But am I missing out on something?
 

Rollo Tomassi

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Zunder said:
How do you DJ's show your love without turning AFC?
The best way is by NOT reverting to being an AFC. I realize that sounds Zen and simplistic, but the best way to express a healthy love is to first kill your inner AFC. Once you've done this Game isn't Game, it's who you are. If you think that once you're in a LTR that you can at last drop your facade, relax and be the 'real you', then the Game is only a role you play from a script. You've missed the point and have failed to kill the AFC in you.

Expressing love isn't inherently AFC, it's the motivation behind that expression that makes it chumpish or DJ.
 

steviecruiser

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Love is nothing but a fabricated notion to make one feel better about our existence. The actuality is that it is really just infatuation or in other words a "strong like" for someone. Your mind controls everything. People think they are in this so called "love" but it could really be twisted emotions... the negative side of them being neediness. If you truly can control your mind you can see the truth behind it and realize you can make yourself emote for anything or anyone. Therefore use it for someone you feel compliments you inherently.
 

Duffdog

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If there is one thing that all men should learn in relationships, it is this: The game never ends. You can't just decide one day that you want to be a chump again, or that you should let down your guard. The second you do that, there is no challenge left for the female and she becomes the one in control of the relationship. That is something you don't want, ever.
 

forward

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Realize that the love you experience is a part of you. The love is in your head, you are creating it. In other words, it does not come from the woman. If you can feel love for one woman, you can feel it for another.

Feeling love can be nice and good fun. But like any emotion, keep it under control -- do not get intoxicated by it. Don't forget what it really is.

Loving a woman is fine, as is showing her. What causes the problems is when you attach love to the concept of "The One". Showing her your love will be a disaster if you have the perspective that "she is your one and only eternal source of love". You are not only showing her "your love" in this case, but also showing her "her power over you".

Much better to communicate: "I love you, but I could easily love another woman, so don't stop earning it." You can communicate this by believing it -- she will sense it.
 

jophil28

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Duffdog said:
... there is no challenge left for the female and she becomes the one in control of the relationship. That is something you don't want, ever.
UNfortunately THAT control is exactly what most women seek, and feel entitled to have "as of right". This sets the scene for either an inevitable power struggle or a capitulation by the guy who then justifies his obedience by claiming to be wanting, " just a peaceful life".
Most of us have been there once to our detriment.
 

Zunder

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Rollo Tomassi said:
The best way is by NOT reverting to being an AFC. I realize that sounds Zen and simplistic, but the best way to express a healthy love is to first kill your inner AFC. Once you've done this Game isn't Game, it's who you are. If you think that once you're in a LTR that you can at last drop your facade, relax and be the 'real you', then the Game is only a role you play from a script. You've missed the point and have failed to kill the AFC in you.

Expressing love isn't inherently AFC, it's the motivation behind that expression that makes it chumpish or DJ.
Good points Rollo.

Ok, Rollo - so you are married (I think?) - do you keep negging your lady, even after all those years together?
I know negging is but one little part of Game, but I just used it as example.

And, Rollo (& any other DJs in a LTR), have you ever just told your lady directly "I love you"?
 

Zunder

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jophil28 said:
UNfortunately THAT control is exactly what most women seek, and feel entitled to have "as of right". This sets the scene for either an inevitable power struggle or a capitulation by the guy who then justifies his obedience by claiming to be wanting, " just a peaceful life".
Most of us have been there once to our detriment.
Yeah see - this is what I mean.
How can you truly be "in love" without ceding at least some power to the lady?
I can see no other way - even for seasoned DJ's, to get around this.
You can not have a "loving" LTR without the ceding the woman some responsablitiy. there must be something, even ONE thing in the LTR that you rely upon her for - and she knows that you do - but your relationship is strong enough that she still doesn't want to run off and fvck the gardener.
 

jophil28

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Zunder said:
Yeah see - this is what I mean.
How can you truly be "in love" without ceding at least some power to the lady?
I can see no other way - even for seasoned DJ's, to get around this.
You can not have a "loving" LTR without the ceding the woman some responsablitiy. there must be something, even ONE thing in the LTR that you rely upon her for - and she knows that you do - but your relationship is strong enough that she still doesn't want to run off and fvck the gardener.
You maintain power and control by doing what all skilled negotiators do, and that is to give a little ground to get a lot more for yourself.. Preferably, give away what you can comfortably live without. That means firstly being clear with yourself about what YOU must have ...The non-negotiables. Then be willing to give her control of those things which matter little to you -the fluffy stuff.
You probably don't want to deal with that lightweight stuff anyways.

The problems usually arise in relationships when the guy and the woman are fighting over the same piece of ground. When that armwrestle remains unresolved because they fought to a draw, the competition shifts to another issue and so on until the relationship becomes a War of the Roses with all the seething resentment and callous revenge that two warring people indulge themselves in.

Now that's no fun.
 
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guru1000

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Zunder said:
Yeah see - this is what I mean.
How can you truly be "in love" without ceding at least some power to the lady?
I can see no other way - even for seasoned DJ's, to get around this.
You can not have a "loving" LTR without the ceding the woman some responsablitiy. there must be something, even ONE thing in the LTR that you rely upon her for - and she knows that you do - but your relationship is strong enough that she still doesn't want to run off and fvck the gardener.
A Don Juan can love and appreciate. An AFC pretending to be a DJ cannot truly love because he is constantly falling in love.

Understand the difference?

"In love" is an inappropriate phrase. Love on the other hand which is a mutually rewarding bond with a compatible candidate is child's play for a DJ. A Don Juan does not worry about his women running off with the gardener. A Don Juan knows his VALUE and loves without compromising himself.

The very premise of this thread does truly show you still have your training wheels on. But in your path to becoming a DJ, always remember a Don Juan doesn't need game, he is the game.
 

Create self-fulfilling prophecies. Always assume the positive. Assume she likes you. Assume she wants to talk to you. Assume she wants to go out with you. When you think positive, positive things happen.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

Zunder

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guru1000 said:
A Don Juan can love and appreciate. An AFC pretending to be a DJ cannot truly love because he is constantly falling in love.

Understand the difference?

"In love" is an inappropriate phrase. Love on the other hand which is a mutually rewarding bond with a compatible candidate is child's play for a DJ. A Don Juan does not worry about his women running off with the gardener. A Don Juan knows his VALUE and loves without compromising himself.

The very premise of this thread does truly show you still have your training wheels on. But in your path to becoming a DJ, always remember a Don Juan doesn't need game, he is the game.
Fair enough.
But the whole point of this thread is to find out how much is ceded by those DJ's that truly love their woman. or women, as the case may be.

I suppose you are correct with your training wheels comment - when my inner and outer game balance and become who I am - then perhaps I will be ready for true love in the DJ way with no fear of slipping into AFChood again.

But - I still can't help feeling that "love" as most viewed it in the 20th, and view it now 21st century, is some bullsh1t commodity invented by Hollywood.
 

fertileTurtle

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Love is God. Or is it God is love?
 

Rollo Tomassi

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Zunder said:
Ok, Rollo - so you are married (I think?) - do you keep negging your lady, even after all those years together?
I know negging is but one little part of Game, but I just used it as example.

And, Rollo (& any other DJs in a LTR), have you ever just told your lady directly "I love you"?
Yes and yes. I've been happily married for 13 years, of course I've told Mrs. Tomassi I love her thousands of times, I'm a Man not a robot. You can be in love and still maintain the frame. You can be in love and still use C&F. I give my wife sh!t all the time, but that's the nature of our relationship. We don't walk on egg shells with each other. So yes, I do use Negs with Mrs. Tomassi, but it's not like I'm stiffly thinking "hmm, I wonder if now would be an appropriate time to apply a neg with my wife in order to achieve maximal sexual output later?" Heheh,..it's just natural. And in doing so it sends the message to her that I'm comfortable enough to know she'll take my doing so as a form of affection, not an insult. If you're with a girl who you feel you have to walk on egg shells around it's time to find another girl.
 

Warrior74

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Here is something I got on email that has some interesting points about love.


There was once a man who didn't believe in love. This was an ordinary man just like you and me, but what made this man special was his way of thinking: He thought love doesn't exist. Of course, he had a lot of experience trying to find love, and he observed the people around him. Much of his life had been spent searching for love, only to find that love didn't exist.

Wherever this man went, he would tell people of his thoughts and opinions on love. This man was highly intelligent, and he was very convincing. What he said was the love is just like a drug; it makes you very high, but it creates a strong need. You can become highly addicted to love, but what happens when you don't receive your daily doses of love? Just like a drug, you need your everyday doses.

He used to say that most relationships between lovers are just like a relationship between a drug addict and the one who provides the drugs. The one who has the biggest need is like the drug addict; the one who has a little need is like the provider. The one who has the little need is the one who controls the whole relationship. You can see this dynamic so clearly because usually in every relationship there is one who loves the most and the other who doesn't love as much. You can see the way they manipulate each other, their actions and reactions, and they are just like the provider and the drug addict.

The drug addict, the one who has the biggest need, lives in constant fear that perhaps he will not be able to get the next dosage of love, or the drug. The drug addict thinks, "What am I going to do if she leaves me?" That fear makes the drug addict very possessive. "That's mine!" The addict becomes jealous and demanding, because the fear of not having the next dosage. The provider can control and manipulate the one who needs the drug by giving more doses, fewer doses, or no doses at all. The one who has the biggest need completely surrenders and will whatever he can to avoid being abandoned.

The man went on explain to everyone why love doesn't exist, and how what humans call 'love' is nothing but a fear relationship based on control. So many promises are made to each other: to live together forever, to love and respect each other, through the good times and the bad times but after marriage, you can see that none of these promises are kept.

What you find is a war of control to see who will manipulate whom. Who will be the provider? And who will have the addiction. You find that a few months later, the respect that they swear to have for each other is gone. You can see the resentment, the emotional poison, how they hurt each other, little by little, and it grows and grows, until they don't know when the love stops. They stay together because they are afraid to be alone, afraid of the opinions and judgments of others, and also afraid of their judgments and opinions. But where is the love?

The man went on and on about all the reasons why he believed love doesn't exist.

The one day this man was walking in a park, and there on a bench was a beautiful lady who was crying. When he saw her crying, felt curiosity. Sitting beside her, he asked if he could help her. He asked why she was crying. You can imagine his surprise when she told him she was crying because love doesn't exist. "This is amazing--a woman who believes that love doesn't exist!" Of course he wanted to know more about her.

He asked her why she felt that love doesn't exist and she told him about her marriage and how she and her husband had both lost respect for each other. She told him about how they hurt each other, and at a certain point she discovered that she didn't love him and that he didn't love her either. 'But the children need a father, and that was my excuse to stay and to do whatever I could to support him. Now the children are grown up and they have left. I no longer have any excuse to stay with him....There is no sense to look around for something that doesn't exist. That is why I am crying.'

Understanding her very well, he embraced her and said, "you are right; love doesn't exist. We look for love, we open our heart and we become vulnerable, just to find selfishness. That hurts us even if we don't think we will be hurt. It doesn't matter how many relationships we have; the same thing happens again and again. Why even search for love any longer?"

They were so much alike, and they became the best friends ever. It was a wonderful relationship. They respected each other, and they never put each other down. With every step they took together, they were happy. There was no envy or jealousy, there was no control, and there was no possessiveness. The relationship kept growing and growing. They loved to be together, because when they were together, they had a lot of fun. When they were not together, they missed each other.

One day when the man was out of town, he had the weirdest idea. He was thinking, 'Hmm, maybe what I feel for her is love. But this is so different from what I have ever felt before. It's not what the poets say it is, it's not what religion says it is, because I am not responsible for her. I don't take anything from her; I don't have the need for her to take care of me; I don't need to blame her for my difficulties or to take my dramas to her. We have the best time together; we enjoy each other. I respect the way she thinks, the way she feels. She doesn't embarrass me; she doesn't bother me at all. I don't feel jealous when she's with other people; I don't feel envy when she is successful. Perhaps love does exist, but it's not what everyone thinks love is.'

He could hardly wait to go back home and talk to her, to let her know about his weird idea. As soon as he started talking, she knew exactly what he was talking about. She felt the same way. They decided to become lovers and to live together, and it was amazing that things didn't change. They still respected each other, they were still supportive of each other, and the love grew more and more.

The man's heart was so full with all the love he felt that one night a great miracle happened. He was looking at the stars and he found the most beautiful one, and his love was so big that the star started coming down from the sky and soon that star was in his hands. Then a second miracle happened, and his soul merged with that star. He was intensely happy, and he could hardly wait to go to the woman and put that star in her hands to prove his love for her. As soon as he put the star in her hands, she felt a moment of doubt. This love was overwhelming, and in that moment, the star fell from her hands and broke in a million of little pieces.

Now there is an old man walking around the world swearing that love doesn't exist. And there is a beautiful old woman at home waiting for a man, shedding a tear for a paradise that once she had in her hands, but for one moment of doubt, she let it go. This is the story about the man who didn't believe in love.

Who made the mistake? Do you want to guess what went wrong? The mistake was on the man's part in thinking he could give the woman his happiness. The star was his happiness, and his mistake was to put his happiness in her hands. Happiness never comes from outside of us. He was happy because of the love coming out of him; she was happy because of the love coming out of her. But as soon as he made her responsible for his happiness, she broke the star because she could not be responsible for his happiness.

No matter how much the woman loved him, she could never make him happy because she could never know what he had in his mind. She could never know what his expectations were, because she could not know his dreams.

If you take your happiness, and put it in someone's hands, sooner or later, she is going to break it. If you give your happiness to someone else, she can always take it away. Then if happiness can only come from inside of you and is the result of your love, you are responsible for your own happiness. WE CAN NEVER MAKE ANYONE RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR HAPPINESS, but when we go to the church to get married, the first thing we do is exchange rings. We put our star in each other's hands, expecting that she is going to make you happy, and you are going to make her happy. It doesn't matter how much you love someone, you are never going to be what that person wants you to be.
That is the mistake most of us make right from the beginning. WE BASE OUR HAPPINESS ON OUR PARTNER AND IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY. We make all those promises that we cannot keep, and we set ourselves up to fail.
 

Zunder

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Warrior74, that was A1 fvckn excellent. i don't know who wrote yout that email, but they have summed up articulately what I have never been able to quite put my ifnger on.
Thanks mate.
 

Don't always be the one putting yourself out for her. Don't always be the one putting all the effort and work into the relationship. Let her, and expect her, to treat you as well as you treat her, and to improve the quality of your life.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

Luminescence

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Warrior74's post is (I believe) a piece from a book called ''the mastery of love'' by don miguel ruiz.
 
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