Being human gets in the way...

[Egoist]

Late night ramblings after a weird weekend:

Its funny but no matter how hard I try, I still have the nice side of me that's always going to be there. Not AFC, not DJ, just human.

Morals? Weaknesses? I don't know, but it goes beyond just being good or bad or AFC. Like there are certain things I just can't do because of the way I am. Or things that I can't stop doing. I feel bad for people. I have this urge to protect those weaker than me. No matter what happens I will still be a gentleman to women, whether they are 18 or 80. Why is that?

Ok, I'll give you a couple of examples so you see what i mean.

-I open doors, pull out chairs, help with coats, open car doors, etc for women. Not just cute women, all women. I am not a "nice guy" but I still do crap like that. Hell, I am even courteous to guys and people in general. I often do nice crap for people just because. And I am actually a pretty selfish, ambitious bastard. But the nice stuff that I do, i just do.. I would treat my employees to food on my own dime. I would bring in some article I saw that I knew would be interesting to a buddy.

-I give women the benefit of the doubt. Even those who maybe a little bit on the wrong side. I treat them like there is at least some good/purity in them and act accordingly. However, at the first sign of a betrayal I will just walk away. In a way, I guess I see and encourage the best in people, particularly women. Stupid? AFC? I kinda seem to trust my "person detector" lately. I don't give 90% of women any time or patience, they either bore or annoy me, but those who i think are good, i give this strange "trust"-type thing.

-I also take on a protector/defender role. My poor little sorta-oneitis chick may be confusing, but I feel responsible for her. Like even though she is not mine, I have to protect and defend her because, well i don't know - she is open and honest with me and there is something about her that makes me want to kill anyone that hurts her. Naive? AFC? Perhaps...

-In relationships, I still put deserving women on a pedestal. I mean I actually enjoy treating them well. At the same time, I have learned how to remain a man while do it. I am actually not this worried about this part - know I can handle it.

So you get my point? I know the game well, I mean the interaction between sexes, the evolutionary psychology and biology, but I still can't really control the human part of me that well. I mean yes, I am my own person, I don't need a woman to be happy, I know how to play the game, but I still do things that I am sure many on here would deem unworthy of a DJ.




What do you think?

I actually thought about this a lot lately.. Interesting how this lifestyle makes you analyze what you'd never normally think about.

 

[Jamo]

I think having a balance, (which you seem to have in your post) makes you a true winner.

 

[Reiki]

What do you think?

I think you are being you, and you enjoy being you. Which is a great achievement. That gives you confidence.

 

[WestCoaster]

I agree with JonJack and others here, especially Jon in that don't look for affirmation from a message board. As much as I like this one, it's definitely not always a good place to seek advice, lots of snap judgements go on here. Being classy in a lost art, many women don't even know how to respond when doors are opened for them, but I still open them.

I read on this site once where a guy and his cyber buddies were laughing at the thought of opening the car door for a woman on a date (in no way, shape or form does the founder of this site advocate that) and they were all laughing about it. In 10 years you'll see these guys "sarging" (hate that term) in a lounge, talking about their miserable second wife who just divorced them ... seen it 100 times.

 

[JC9]

I think you have it right Egoist.

A lot of people will avoid doing something, like buying a gift for a girl, because they think it's AFC and to be avoided at all costs.

AFC isn't an action, it's the motivation behind it.

If you do something because you enjoy doing it, and don't have some hidden motive for it, then it's all good.

It's not weakness to to be nice, it's weakness to hide who you are and what you want behind a mask of niceness.

 

[Egoist]

good replies so far guys.

I would like to see what the elder statesmen have to say (paging desdinova and rollo tomassi?)

 

[DarkLight]

I feel you.
Been trying to sort this issue/perspective out myself lately.

Ever since I can remember I've been on the path of heart. Meditating, etc. Sh!t when everyone else was doing keg stands in college, I was meditating alone in India, travelling for a year.

So walking the path w. heart, and then bringing into play some of the physcological dynamics of the game, sort of fvck w. me. Like the nice thing. I enjoy being nice. I like to enrich others lives, etc.. But then its percieved as I'm just giving away my value, and not being "the catch" "the challenge"... cause I want to give them my heart, and improve them, etc. The paths so far have created some confusion in me, to that regard.

But I could imagine, that its just that I haven't walked far enough in either way... to realize they don't conflict with eachother at all. And are actually parallel and mutually supportive.

I feel a lot of what you said Egoist. And would like to hear more from the older men in here as well. With their experience of further travels on these roads.

Oh, and JC9... well said man. Gleamed some insight from this...

AFC isn't an action, it's the motivation behind it.

If you do something because you enjoy doing it, and don't have some hidden motive for it, then it's all good.

It's not weakness to to be nice, it's weakness to hide who you are and what you want behind a mask of niceness.

 

[WestCoaster]

I would say I'm a classic Nice Guy. I completely understand DJ dynamics, but often have a tough time putting them into practice. I wasn't raised to be a jerk or bad boy; my dad is far from that, a great guy to everyone and highly respected in his community.

The toughest part for me in this whole DJ stuff is the challenge/aloof/neg-hits thing. What this board has taught me is to take more ownership of myself, quit getting oneitis, and quit taking myself so seriously. Some of the PUA stuff here is tough to grasp if you haven't done it your whole life ... I actually kind of admire from afar some of the big time DJ's here (that is if they aren't lying about themselves).

Also, this board has greatly doubled or tripled my dating ... even if I struggle with the neg-hit/aloof stuff. The articles and DJ Bible are real eye-openers, as is all of Rollo Tomassi's stuff ... material that isn't out there for the general public.

One thing you don't want to do is become so enamoured with this stuff that you lose your humanity and become one of these pathetic 50-year old losers, trying to hit on women with their multiple divorces behind them. Trust me, there are a lot of these guys, and many guys on this site are just lounge lizards in training.

The key is having confidence and plenty of it and not apologizing for who you are. You can be a nice guy if you do that; if you're a wimp, that's when things go south. (Been there, done that ... I was a royal AFC back in the day.)

 

[JC9]

So walking the path w. heart, and then bringing into play some of the physcological dynamics of the game, sort of fvck w. me. Like the nice thing. I enjoy being nice. I like to enrich others lives, etc.. But then its percieved as I'm just giving away my value, and not being "the catch" "the challenge"... cause I want to give them my heart, and improve them, etc. The paths so far have created some confusion in me, to that regard.

This can be a tricky path, and is something I have spent a lot of time on.

Wanting to give your heart, and improve someone is a good ideal. However, it must come from them feeling your actions and learning from them. It can be very detrimental to try and express your heart with words, and it can be counter-productive to try and improve people through words.

From what I see as the true aspects of a DJ, that of action and being the best man you can be, are closely entwined to the way of the heart as you put it.

The tactics for being a Pickup Artist can deviate from it a bit, but the root of a DJ in my mind is similar to your path.

 

[DarkLight]

Word up!
I feel you guys on these last 2 posts (JC9 & WestCoaster).

I've long since realized the truth of actions speak louder than words. Most all my relating to this effect is through behaivor, touch, looks, mind, etc. I only use words to bring more life/power to any of the above listed. Say in a manner of fortifying the truth of the unspoken actions.

Besides that and more back to the thread topic... on top of the difficulty with utilizing some of the dynamics established here (neg-hits, DHV) cause of my character and the path therof... how do you guys who walk towards divinity (per se) find it in yourself to employ such tactics?

Not that there bad... but I would just like to gleam your perspective with such attitudes/tactics from a solid path of heart. In hopes that something is illuminated within myself, finding enough accord in your vision to accept it, grow, and then be able to employ such maneuvers easier. Thus gaining its benefits without sacryficing my spirit's way.

Your responses are much appreciated!

 

[ElChoclo]

I don't want to take on the negative role here Egoist, since you have shared your thoughts with us. But, I wonder whether you have ever wanted to put a fat ugly girl on a pedestal. The P word is a very dangerous one for a man.

I recall reading a self appraisal by a guy who had gone for a so called "mail order" bride. He acknowledged that he had a rescuer mentality, but sometimes self awareness seems to stop at the point where some trait is recognised, but no action taken to deal with it. I recall someone else commenting on the rescuer mentality in relation to the "mail order" women, and he made the remark that they always want to rescue the beautiful ones, but not the unattractive ones. Hence my question.

I think you used the description "worthy" for those you wish to put on a pedestal. JC9 quite rightly points out that the motivation is the significant element not the action.

It just seems to me that tendencies towards AFCism are so powerful in many men that it is just unsafe for them to entertain any of the ideas or concepts which ordinarily are associated with it. Reformed alcoholics don't ever take booze do they?

 

[Egoist]

I don't want to take on the negative role here Egoist, since you have shared your thoughts with us. But, I wonder whether you have ever wanted to put a fat ugly girl on a pedestal. The P word is a very dangerous one for a man.

I recall reading a self appraisal by a guy who had gone for a so called "mail order" bride. He acknowledged that he had a rescuer mentality, but sometimes self awareness seems to stop at the point where some trait is recognised, but no action taken to deal with it. I recall someone else commenting on the rescuer mentality in relation to the "mail order" women, and he made the remark that they always want to rescue the beautiful ones, but not the unattractive ones. Hence my question.

I think you used the description "worthy" for those you wish to put on a pedestal. JC9 quite rightly points out that the motivation is the significant element not the action.

It just seems to me that tendencies towards AFCism are so powerful in many men that it is just unsafe for them to entertain any of the ideas or concepts which ordinarily are associated with it. Reformed alcoholics don't ever take booze do they?

ya i know what you mean.

Lucky for me, i am sort of a realist. I always trust my brain above any emotions. So I'm ok with choosing people. I am also VERY quick to next the wrong kind. And super picky. Chicks that are deserving are truly rare, i meet them like once in a blue moon..