being assertive appears full on/desperate/clingy/needy

[DonGorgon]

With women thinking they are the prize due to the way that all other men treat them and how they were brought up

and with us being told to take the "prize" mentality...

I say no one gets nothing.

Well when you have 25 men in a bar to every 1 woman there women become the prize simply by demand and supply rules, with men taking more and more desperate steps to win the competition for the very limited number of women available in the bar... there is no way around that...

Womens attitude comes directly from the fact that they have an unlimited supply of suters so you dont really matter unless you are "Brad Pitt"

 

[PhenomX]

Well when you have 25 men in a bar to every 1 woman there women become the prize simply by demand and supply rules, with men taking more and more desperate steps to win the competition for the very limited number of women available in the bar... there is no way around that...

Womens attitude comes directly from the fact that they have an unlimited supply of suters so you dont really matter unless you are "Brad Pitt"

yes i agree, and THAT attitude results in some of the stuff said here not true. HOWEVER i agree totally withthe whole "prize mentality"....that really is the way to go whether you have one girl or if you are in abundance of women.

Haha, i didn't mean a sausagefest, im talking about in a 1:1 ratio, girls will tend to prize men who are only in their social circles.

I'll give you an example.

My best friend went to a different high school than i do, and i went to one of the parties with kids from his high school. he told me to come along because he was easily one of the most (if not the most) popular guy at the party, and i would easily pull girls being with him as long as i stayed myself (fairly social). out in public we usually wingman for each other and we're about equal gamewise, so we're great tgether.

to make a long story short, i met alot of new people (mostly guys, because the guys were more open to 'whos the new guy with the popular dude?') and made new friends..... girls would approach us but none even bothered to talk to me.

it had nothing to do with looks or mindset or any "subconscious" dialogue. i'm a man of style so i dress well and i have a real cute face so i'm not a turnoff no matter what the girls tastes are.

i ended up pulling two numbers only because i got sick and tired of no girls approaching me so i just said "fvck it" and chatted a few girls up who were fairly isolated.

the whole point im trying to say is that although its great to "be the great catch", no matter how much you prize yourself, girls won't approach much and ask you out, even if your value is fairly high (in my situation my value was fairly high because i was with my real popular friend. i still pulled two numbers but i was never approached).

granted, it was high school, but the same concept applies.

you cant truly play the "abundance" mindset unless u are actually talking to the girl, and thats where the contradiction lies because you have to go up to approach her.

how are you in abundance if you have to approach the girl in the firt placE?

 

[slaog]

you cant truly play the "abundance" mindset unless u are actually talking to the girl, and thats where the contradiction lies because you have to go up to approach her.

how are you in abundance if you have to approach the girl in the firt placE?

You can approach women but that doesn't mean you are chasing them. You're seeing are they good enough for you and you don't need them.

You are also just being social and not looking for women for dates but are open to the possibility.

 

[WC2]

Ok. Which "pick-Up Theory" did you copy and paste this response from? mystery, tyler, max, style?

That is fckin ridiculous.

1) dont make plans with an HB(wtf) say woman or girl. So how the fcuk do you get to know a person if you dont make plans to meet?? please enlighten everyone you MASTER PUA!!!!! BS!!!

2) So, when your mom, sisters, and movies says treat a woman respectfully, open doors for them, make her feel like a strong confident women is ALL BS??
No, YOU SIR ARE FULL OF BS

3) Hot, confident, and attractive women get hit on by hundreds of guys??BS!!
please ask a 100 attractive women on the street today and see if they even get hit on by guys twice a week. They fckin DONT. most guys just hoot and howler like drunk construction workers.

4) "Do you know what this chick is waiting for? She's waiting for her dreams to come true: a real man; a man who demonstrates (not talks) higher value; a man who is cool and confident and who has his choice of dozens of chicks. A man she has to chase in hopes of getting his attention; and if she's lucky and works real hard, maybe she'll get a tiny slice of his time in which she'll try to impress him. But oh, no, what does she get? A long line of AFC's with flowers in hand asking her to go out with them. All of them displaying lower value"

This is again ridiculous. What the hell are you even talking about?? Please explain in great detail.

5) Hey pea brain. Your post is complete non-sense. Instead of posting concepts that are 3-4 years old and reading tons opf material. Why dont you actually go out in the field and really find out what REAL women want.



ONE WORD: Dumbass

Well we can see here who is ignorant to the way women work. Still taking advice from movies and romance novels, terd?

Look, I'm not one to pick on someone but I feel I'm doing a good deed here by telling you that everything you believe about women is most likely just not true. And that's why you're here.

Instead of going against the grain why not just take in some knowledge? Like you, I was not to keen on how women work a few years back. However, I didn't try to go against the grain.

Take my advice and learn from not only your experiences, but others.

DonS gave you some good advice and you've closed up your mind to it. Sadly, what he has said is for the most part correct. Setting up a "date" with a woman you don't really know that well is lame. Dates come later on when you've built some rapport and she's shown some decent interest in you.

A lot of us have been around long enough to know what works and what doesn't. Fairytail fantasies and dates usually don't work. Not until she's seen that you are a valuable male, at least.

Take some time to read up and keep an open mind.

 

[drak_ool]

even though DonS frames his response in a very aggressive way (we re all here to help each other, not tear into each other... in the end you both look childish) he has the right idea.

Try not to ask a girl out on an "official date". That would make her feel trapped, especially if her interest level is not too high (yet!), she will mumble a response under pressure and then when the time for the "date" comes around, she will flake, and you will get angry.

Instead, like DonS suggested, frame your question in a different way: make her understand that you will be engaging in a fun/interesting activity with or without her, but that she is welcome to join you. To increase even more the likelihood that she will come, you can also give her the possibility to bring a friend (it will make her more secure) but in that case you need some solid wingmen so that her friend gets hit on and doesn't become a co.ckblock.

Of course DonS, ideally you want girls chasing you, etc. not the other way around, but not every girl that you talk to at the bar for 5 min will do that, regardless of whether she is a super hottie or just good looking. AND if you really want to nail the cream of the crop you will have to do some chasing, unless you are a movie star or some other sort of famous millionaire.

 

[pete101]

Its really about having a prize mindset. You're getting confused because you're trying tactics to act like the prize. BE the prize and you'll behave like the prize.

When you have a prize mindset you won't care about women flaking because you're the prize and they're missing out. This mindset has the effect of women wanting to chase you more. They now know that you have high value and that is very attractive to them.

You create attraction by your mindset. Have a high value mindset and you'll behave like a high value person. Women look for high value men so naturally they'll be attracted to you.

It's not really about chat up lines etc it's subconscious communication that comes naturally if you believe you are the prize. PUA's try to learn all this stuff but the best way is to become the prize instead of learning and trying to act like it when you believe you are not.

how do i learn to become a prize?

are there things i should do to send me on this path?

 

[true romance]

Pete

Did you ever read the DJ bible? if not please do read.

Not sure where your state of AFC is ? I would not start pushing for date etc..you might get turn down, get flake and you will get frustrated..and come here ask for how do I..?
spend couple months just surround yourself with women, dance class, yoga, co-ed sport..just make conversation..don't hit on them or ask for a date..observe..you will learn a lot. Make a good effort on your part, take note. Build yourself a social circle, keep your life busy and interesting

Live life you always wanted, travel, hobbies, learn new skills, new language, hit the gym, sport..etc..stop focus on chicks, focus on yourself.

The results will be there, you will see it

 

[pete101]

i've been reading through the DJ bible but i can't find the section which gives me a play by play on what to do on a date..

see i have no problems getting numbers approaching etc but it's my date technique where i mess up and unless i have someone watching me and hearing what i say i can't seem to figure out where exactly i'm going wrong and i overanalyze everything cos i keep having failed dates.. :-s

can you point me in the right direction to what i should read for date tips?

 

[SharinganUser]

Just keep doing what you've been doing to get to that point. There is no real technique. You fail because you are overanalyzing everything. Don't think just do.

 

[slaog]

i've been reading through the DJ bible but i can't find the section which gives me a play by play on what to do on a date..

see i have no problems getting numbers approaching etc but it's my date technique where i mess up and unless i have someone watching me and hearing what i say i can't seem to figure out where exactly i'm going wrong and i overanalyze everything cos i keep having failed dates.. :-s

can you point me in the right direction to what i should read for date tips?

You're missing the point pete. It's not about a set of play by play instructions, it's about developing a DJ mindset. Do that and you won't need instructions and besides that women know if a man is genuine (DJ) or just acting (PUA).

 

[broken dreams]

is this like playin hard to get ?
I flake on girls all the time. they respond well after my flake. I show interest but feel she isnt really into me?
I try to pull back and act unneedy unaffected. abundance mentaLity.
I think women with low self esteem that say to themselves I dont deserve a man to love me,etc etc. this type of game of playing hard to get and getting them to chase you is effective.
If she has high self esteem and you disapear, she will have another guy in 2minutes.

Im experimenting with this now.

hotter girls are more sexually confident women but know when they get old like their moms they lose that edge of pvssy power.

seven and below have **** going for them but are not that hot,are more soffisticated and complex when you game them IMO.
I just say that they are sexy and have awesome personality.
and that im curious how adventurous they really are, sexually.

Im tryign to break off when they see you as needy and clingy and just want you as friends, you act unreactive and leave disappear for awhile.
when you see her again you changed for yourself , and I know she will **** test yoiu to see if you are congruent or just a facade cover up.
once you break that and you build attraction act uninterested but with statement of intent. I think it could work. Im reviewing tynan's book btw.

being able to walk away aka silence is golden is showing uneedy, being cool and congruent.
as per tyler's post onn playing hard to get:
spike buying temperature , take away pull back... acuse her of sexual coming on to you. pull back spike buying temperature all over again.

like winning you over.

 

[get1]

hopefully I can help you to some extent. I do understand what you're asking.

AND in terms of a quick fix unfortunately one doesn't exist. When I started I initially struggled to get numbers, then to get answers, then to get dates, then to have girls arrive at dates and so on. It is all a process imo.

When looking at flaking I think we should look at the several types separately. In your original message you talked about flaking in terms of a girl not finalising a date or time, this is the first type. Second type is making plans and then not showing or cancelling in the last minute.

I suppose for you the first step is to build attraction enough over the phone before you even suggest a catch up. Remembering that girls are emotion driven so a high interest girl when you meet her could start low interest when you have her on the phone..maybe she has had a bad day at work. You need to remind her of why she gave you her number in the first place and be the guy who can change her emotional state. Use references to when you met, tell her about how amazing your day was, tell her a story about how you took your mate with you to something and how they she had no idea (suggest competition).

Only once you have done this mention a catch up,, usually she will suggest it,. Ask what are you up to this week? She will usually ask back. Say something like, "work, dinners, coffees, lunches, gym. All the obligations, you know." Then perhaps say hey I've gotta go (insert activity here) but what are you doing thursday? Suggest a day you know she is free from when you asked her what she is doing. Then use either a direct approach or an inirect one like DonS suggested.

If she hesitates simply say, that's OK, nevermind. I'll talk to you next week or so. NEVER demand an answer but if she doesn't commit say never mind, i'll call you soon. Call a week later, say I have wednesday night free. If she doesn't do it the following week or skip a week.

There is a time to be assertive but not when making the initial date, maybe if she flakes on the date and cancels last minute..i've slept with several girls who i have taken this approach with in this situation but remember actions speak louder than words.

 

[trd323]

Well we can see here who is ignorant to the way women work. Still taking advice from movies and romance novels, terd?

Look, I'm not one to pick on someone but I feel I'm doing a good deed here by telling you that everything you believe about women is most likely just not true. And that's why you're here.

Instead of going against the grain why not just take in some knowledge? Like you, I was not to keen on how women work a few years back. However, I didn't try to go against the grain.

Take my advice and learn from not only your experiences, but others.

DonS gave you some good advice and you've closed up your mind to it. Sadly, what he has said is for the most part correct. Setting up a "date" with a woman you don't really know that well is lame. Dates come later on when you've built some rapport and she's shown some decent interest in you.

A lot of us have been around long enough to know what works and what doesn't. Fairytail fantasies and dates usually don't work. Not until she's seen that you are a valuable male, at least.

Take some time to read up and keep an open mind.

HAHAHAHAHAHA. How do I know that that is all theory is because I have said every single thing you wrote. I have all mystery's dvds and have the annhilation method by style, I have jugglers ebook, and all of tyler durden's (RSD) blog on seduction lair (might be too old for you to remember this forum). Seduction lair is where all this started, its the forum that mystery, style, and TD started.

I have went through ALL the methods. Yes, opinion openers work, mystery' kiss close works, yes styles kiss close works, peacocking works. All of theior published work has "helped" men. But in my opinion it has also hurt a lot of people in the community, including myself.

I have learned through many MEN and have discussed in different lairs with men that have the same mentallity as mine. and PICK_UP is hurting a lot more men than helping them. The community has changed from helping men to making the most profitable business.

At this moment in my life no one can change my views. I have become the man i have always wanted to be. The nice guy that still gets 10s without using a single routine and telling women that they are gorgeous and amazing creatures, IMPERFECT BUT BEAUTIFUL.

I dont think what the next step is or I should not call a girl because it is too needy. A girl will know if you are confident or not.

You can fake confidence, but what happens after you bang her and you have to be yourself. You were never really yourself, you are what a guru said you should be.

Oh, I liked you making fun of my screen name instead of trd you say turd. LOL LOL LOL LOL.

 

[Single_Sucks]

it's like u can't win.. u

well, yes, that is the essence of it....when a girl does not fancy you...theres nothing you can do

Fear not though my friend, when a girl DOES fancy you it's the opposite, incredibly easy to succeed.

Just keep your dignity at all times, for yourself

 

[DonGorgon]

If a woman wants you she will have you... anything else means NO!

 

[Single_Sucks]

....which is why you must focus on increasing your desirability to maximum. This is something that in my own 'inner game' I like to call 'advertising'. Just advertise yourself like mad in front of the girl you like.

 

[DonJuan11]

ok women flake we know that and they give flakey answers and don't commit to a time on the phone and will give u answers like 'i'll let u know' or 'maybe next week'

what i've found is that if i try to be assertive and say something like 'well give me a yes/no now, i got things to do, people to see and can't wait around for u to give me an answer tomorrow, obviously i'd like to meet u cos i think you're cool but i'm a busy guy i got other plans in waiting'

it's like u can't win.. u try to be assertive u get called full on. u say 'cool, let me know' u just get walked over.

You have to be affirmative and definite in what you want do with her. Girls love definite plans and that you know what you want to do with them.

--------------------------------------------------

"Care to join me Sat at 6:00 pm for salsa dancing. I would love to dance with you"
"Maybe next week, I'm busy this week."

Option A: "You have to let me know right now. I need a yes or no. I'm a very busy guy and I cannot wait for an answer as I have more important people to do stuff with." (translation: You can go to hell if you don't give me a yes. I cannot be held in suspense because your "yes" or "no" answer will determine my mood over the next few days and if I should hit on other girls)

Option B: "That's unfortunate, I would have loved to dance with you. Well, let me know when you are less busy, I would be delighted to spend time with you" (translation: I'm learning something fun, I like you and want you to join me in doing the fun thing. If you have better things to do, no problem, I will do it by myself and maybe next time you can join me.)

----------------------------------------------------------

What option do you think will have her call you next week?