Beginning with the game. Tips for starting?

[SandHawk]

Alright, I'm going to start out with improving my game with a wingman and practicing cold approaching. But, I'm currently wondering about my approach to improving my skillset.

How did you guys start out? Did you pick a certain quality to work on(For instance, open and build attraction), or did you attempt to work on several key steps at the same time?

I think that laying the bar too low will not provide proper stimulation to improve my skillset, but that putting the bar too high will make it near impossible to be conscious about what I'm doing wrong in a certain area.

I'm going PU'ing tonight with a wing and I had the idea to work on my openers and A1/A2 stage. Get the social hook, negging the target and then build some comfort with them. My goal is to open at least 4 sets and attain a conversation for at least 5 minutes. This will allow me to work on my openers, my negs(About which I'm very unsure) and some basic conversational skills.

 

[WhtRbt]

check out the dj bootcamp http://www.jbspencer.com/djb/

 

[horaholic]

Personally, I think you should scrap the MM. All it does is make you a pick up robot. Plus, its too widely known, and easy to spot. Having a couple of openers for 'training wheels' might be a good idea, though. Check out this site for stuff like that: http://seductiondatabase.com/. Its full of stories, openers, games and stuff. I just dont understand how people can get away with "can I ask you opinion, for one second?" It sounds so rehearsed, and stupid. There are some things to take out of MM, dont get me wrong. I like asking how the set knows each other. I just dont think you need such an intricate 'system.' You'll end up getting too inside your head, analyzing, and screwing up. It's better to open yourself up and show the girl, your BEST self, than to create some image using calculated stories.

Anyway, personnal preferences aside, you need to figure out where your weak points are, and confront them. If you have trouble opening, work on that, and that alone. Take it step by step. Have your wing run distractions on any obstacles. Your opener doesnt matter! Walking up and saying "hi, Im so and so," is just as good as anything else, IF you have the confidence, and energy behind it. The only problem with that opener, is what to talk about afterwards. But you get that problem with anything else, too. I think your first step would be to open as many sets as possible, take them as long as you can, and the next day, start your own journal on here, and write down everything you remember in your journal! This is important, because, you can see for yourself where you need improvement, and others can give their input.

I learn more from reading peoples improvement journals than I do from anything else. Check out snowplows, and Jon024 (this dude does an AMAZING transformation, and imo one of, if not, the best pua on here. He doesnt use any technique either.) Starting your own will help you immensely.

 

[SandHawk]

One of the reasons I'm currently using MM is because he has a lot of background information on the process. I read parts of the DJ Bible last year around this time, and I did implement various things of it into my personality. I've become a much more flirty person and someone that's known by many people(Where as before, noone would have noticed me). I'm more comfortable being around people and people allow me to kino them up.

I don't intend to solely focus on MM, but his approach on openers and initially disarming the girl seem very good to me(Note: I don't have enough information from other sources to tell if that's indeed correct). Even if I intend to resort to just saying "Hi", some of his tactics still seem good, such as initially disarming the girl with a neg. I tried a few openers thursday night, and to be honest, they do seem to work pretty good. I opened quite a few good sets. One of the biggest drawbacks of MM to me is the fact that he tells you to create an 'avatar'. But doing so doesn't mean you'll become a more sociable person with understanding of how social dynamics work. It just means you put on a mask and become a totally different person who acts and behaves in a total different manner than that you would yourself. After you come home or during class, when not playing the game, you'll fall back into the person you were before, the AFC. He doesn't seem to be focused on changing personality, but on creating a fake image of yourself.

I also don't intend to go around with made up stories before hand. I've done enough in my life to actually have interesting stories to tell without lying. I just need to work on my storytelling skills and anticipate if a girl is becoming bored with the story.

I went out thursdaynight with a wing. And while we didn't do a lot of winging(In fact, I believe we walked in each other's way at various points because we both suffered from the same problem: Lack of material to keep the girl occupied). However, it was our goal to practice openers and reach the social hook stage. While I crash and burned horribly in most sets, I did have 2 sets where I actually reached a point where the girl was actually working to get validation. One of my biggest mistakes I made is a girl that came up to me with the remark that I looked familiar, that she knew me from TV. I should have done something with that, but I had absolutely no material to hook her(Or for that matter, any idea on what to say about it).

We decided to go and wing more often, so I might aswell keep a journal on how things progress. I'll also start reading the DJB and combine the knowledge from several sources.

Any ideas on how to improve my talking skills? Probably just practice, practice, practice.

 

[schttrj]

ok listen now, i'm not going to write too much but i guarantee u'd benefit by paying heed to what i say.

remember, while opening, it's how you keep the ball rolling that matters.
just a little confident "hi" or "hello" will do. but you need to keep it going with the answer that you get from the girl.

now, instantly establish that "give you a hard playful time" frame. the sooner the better. but you should learn when to get serious with your replies since by then you would have entered the comfort/rapport phase. attraction needs just a couple of mins normally!

then another thing, keep escalating...go physical as soon as u can...but don't be creepy or weird...just keep moving gradually and in a normal manner.

and another thing i would like to note here, if you are the average looking guy, then you are lucky and you are better off than a good looking guy. i repeat here, you are BETTER OFF. believe me, i'm a good looking guy, at least from teh reactions that i get from the girls.
if you are average looking and you approach and flirt, you are sweet and you are different from others, which is a good thing. but if you are good looking and you flirt or get physical soon, then you are a player and believe me, a skilled player neva lets other know that he is a player. he loses the real and trust factor, and you would have a problem getting quality high value girls other than the shallow chicks who want to sleep with a good looking guy. so if you are goodlooking, keep it REAL. not too flirting, or touching her. just talk with her and give her a little hard time and mostly a indifferent yet comfort or rapport and she is yours.

 

[xdreamz]

you learn the most from watching guys that are successful with women do it for a start. they should show you that they are non hesitant which is key in my opinion. there are many ways and styles/methods you can start approaching like indirect or direct. i've learned to approach indirectly but have tried direct lines such as 'you're cute' that work well. its not really important what you say but how you bring it and what you bring it into - just go with the flow. for example if im talking to a chick i should be leading the interaction into something a step further to a position where im more likely to get what I want done. be bold. the greater the risk the greater the reward. read books from the proffesionals at it, i won't go into detail into which ones because they all have their strengths and weaknesses. i learned a lot from juggler, mystery and deangelo for example. lastly, dont get worried or shooken up by failure because even the best go through it but you should go through some beginners luck at first like I did so handle.

 

[horaholic]

There's no need to disarm them. All you need to do is make them like you really fast. Think about this. Have you ever seen the extremely social guy that talks to everyone whether they want to or not? He's usually somewhat obnoxious, but he goes straight into the pack of girls, and they may get freaked out or be a bytch for a second, but he keeps going, and within a half a minute, they are drawn into his world, and like him.

When you have a canned opener, it gives you a momentary boost of false confidence. Thats why they work. It's not because the target is disarmed, its because you showed confidence. If you're a cool guy, they will drop their sheilds quickly anyway. Go to the RSDnation link on my sig, and go to the success stories section, and read some of the stuff there. Rsd started out similar to MM, then scrapped the whole method, and started over by being a natural from the get go, and it works way better.

90% of this game is developing a thick skin to rejection. You dont truly develop that with canned openers. Yeah, its nice to have something to say beforehand, but its nicer to be a fun and energetic guy from the get-go, who has no problem running up to a chick and yelling "I need a date tonight!" and literally picking her up, and carrying her off.

 

[IamtheAlphamale]

Basically it comes down to this. Each action you make changes you. If you decide not to do something, depending what it is, it will make you less confident and vice versa. Now considering this you can just make yourself more and more confident.

Strategy = crutch. Therefore deciding not to use any type of strategies or telling any lies makes you much stronger in the long run. What helps you now may make you weaker in the long run.

 

[SandHawk]

Well, my goal is to become a natural. So yes, perhaps I should lay out a strategy to follow.

Have you guys any pointers on how to keep a set running once I opened it? Because that's where my biggest issue lies.

EDIT: Thanks for all the pointers up till now! These have been useful.

 

[horaholic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0omMTu9Ax8&feature=related

Here is a perfect example of why we should avoid routines. There is plenty of useful info you can pick up from MM, or style. Style's system is easier than MM, because its not so scripted, and 'scientific.' Keeping the set running is where Im having trouble too. You need to go in, and make an impression. Once they accept you, think of a random question to ask them about themselves. (have a couple good questions in your arsenal) Chicks love to talk about themselves. If they like you, they will ask you questions back. The seduction database has a bunch of ideas for keeping sets running. Its 90% crap, but some things are pretty good, just dont rely on them, and dont be their source of 'entertainment.' Learn a couple magic tricks, just to keep their interest. SPARINGLY use these, or you're a court jester.

If I remember to, I always get a thumb-war match going. It generates attraction. Get Kino going asap.

There are certain planned things that are useful, but you should strive for sponanaeity. It comes with practice, and its more about opening yourself up enough to not be afraid to say whatever you want. Girls respect that, even if they dont like what you say. They like men who arent afraid to go for it.

Try this next time you're out: Approach a set (preferably all female) and say "Im the reigning thumb war champ of this bar. Who wants to take me me on?"