Beginners guide to becoming WEALTHY

[Duffdog]

Okay well then if that's the case then LIFE is too risky for you then because you NEVER KNOW what can happen to you if you walk out your front door lol.

IF you plan professionally and diligently, you can avoid MOST and MAJOR things that have a high POTENTIAL of happening.

Yes, *anything* can happen of course, hell giant cats can come raining from the sky and can piss over all of your **** lol, but when you do proper planning you want to stay realistic and plan for what has an actual POTENTIAL of happening.
Like this recession that you so cleverly predicted? Oh, wait...

Gee wheez, duh lol.






Duffdog I don't have time to give you a more detailed breakdown from 2008/2009 but you can look at this chart from the Bureau of Labor Stats website: http://www.bls.gov/emp/empmajorindustry.htm. This was created in 07 and is projected to 2016, again I can provide a more current version but you can use this to see my point. If you scroll down the Federal and State/Local Governments DO NOT employ 50% of the labor force by a LONG SHOT.

The employment is mostly provided by the private sector and MAJORITY of the private sector are classified as SMALL BUSINESSES based on the number of employees and revenue that they have.

PLUS Duffdog to even state that the Government provides over 50% of employment doesn't make any sense. Government does not have any money, the only money that Government has is what they TAX like hell from us. So it's impossible for your claim of Government "creating over half of the jobs" to even be accurate. Now Government can of course PRINT money but that's another issue.
I think its cute how you found some random chart which doesn't back up anything you said. Notice how the "jobs" are undefined...couldn't possibly be because they do not fall under "small business" label like you claim they do...no, of course not. By the way, thanks for the tip about the Gov't not having any money. Do you realize how ridiculous you sound right now?



Well Duffdog go back and re-read what I posted, I listed a lot MORE things than just WORK HARD. You can work and work and work doing the WRONG things and get no where. What I stressed was proper MANAGEMENT and there's a lot of things included in proper management from where to start the business, from when to start it, from what to sell, from how much inventory to carry, from how much financing you need, from how to handle taxes, from what to buy (if you do RE), etc., etc.
And, if you could quickly re-read what I wrote, wherein you will find that you can do everything right and still fail. It happens all the time and will continue to happen. Or, you could do everything wrong and make billions. There is NO surefire way to predict anything.

What you are saying, from my observation, is that you just "so happened" to have made the right investments and THAT'S why you are successful? So now since you see yourself as "lucky," then that means everyone who aspires to have success in business must also be as LUCKY as you were?
Yep. Now your getting it.

That's incorrect. I don't know the history of the investments you made and how you came to them, sometimes it takes years of mistakes to make a business profitable and sometimes it doesn't, there is no SET rules on success in this area. You can come in at the right time, at the right location, and make a killing and a guy that's been trying to invest for years might not have figured it out properly and thus doesn't have the success you have achieved. This doesn't mean that success in business is based on luck, the example I just described is more an exception to the rule if ANYTHING.

Oh, well now you are getting all wishy washy on me. You cannot have it both ways, either wealth is a result of something that you can control or it is not. Pick one and stick with it.

For example, a novice stock investor can decide to get into the market at the right time in the right stock, and that stock could just RANDOMLY go up and that investor could be a huge OVERNIGHT success. Now would it be ACCURATE for that investor to go and tell other investors not to spend time and money on financial education, etc., because it's all based on random luck?
Well, since you put it that way, yes. From the perception of everyone watching, this guy is better than gold. That makes whatever advise he offers more valuable than a 50yr investor who can't seem to make his first million. Even if he said: "throw a dart at the WSJ and invest your life savings in that stock", it is still a zillion times more valuable than what an experienced poor guy says.

Lol, give me a break. What I just described DOES happen, but it DOES NOT happen all the time.
show all work. Please provide your full regression analysis of every stock millionaire who has ever existed which shows unequivocally that every stock choice ever made had absolutely nothing to do with luck.

If there ever was a "formula" for business success, I believe it's proper MANAGEMENT, financial education, creativity, and other related things that I went over earlier.

I'm sure that you are not going to make the claim that management success is only given its label AFTER the company has made profits...not before? Which is quite coincidental since two companies can have the same management style and one can fail while the other prospers. I like how you mentioned "creativity" in your closing remark. I wonder how someone "learns" creativity...oh, wait, they don't. They have to be lucky enough to have been born creative.

truth

 

[The Message Boy]

Like this recession that you so cleverly predicted? Oh, wait...

Lol, when did I say that you can predict when a recession will happen? I said when you are a competent business owner you consider recessions as a possibility to make plans for them should they occur.

There are businesses that have went out of business as a result of this recession but MAJORITY of businesses are still going strong. A number of them might have had sales declines, but they are far from going under because they properly planned for things like this.

I think its cute how you found some random chart which doesn't back up anything you said. Notice how the "jobs" are undefined...couldn't possibly be because they do not fall under "small business" label like you claim they do...no, of course not. By the way, thanks for the tip about the Gov't not having any money. Do you realize how ridiculous you sound right now?

That chart is in no way a random chart, it's directly from the Bureau of Labor, broken down by employment sector so the "jobs" are not undefined. And I don't have time to pull up statistics that prove small businesses create most of the employment in this country any competent business person knows that. Google it.

And, if you could quickly re-read what I wrote, wherein you will find that you can do everything right and still fail. It happens all the time and will continue to happen. Or, you could do everything wrong and make billions. There is NO surefire way to predict anything.

No one EVER said in this thread that there is a surefire way to succeed at ANYTHING, there's always risk. What I said was wrong with your posts is that you relate success with LUCK and that's incorrect.

If you would say business is risky and you could fail that's one thing and I would agree with that.

But when you go off saying that any success in business is based on luck or rolling the dice ONLY and not experience, management, knowledge, creativity, etc., you are incorrect.

Well, since you put it that way, yes. From the perception of everyone watching, this guy is better than gold. That makes whatever advise he offers more valuable than a 50yr investor who can't seem to make his first million. Even if he said: "throw a dart at the WSJ and invest your life savings in that stock", it is still a zillion times more valuable than what an experienced poor guy says.

You missed the point of that example. He has no advice to offer because he just literally walked in, picked a random stock, and invested in it.

show all work. Please provide your full regression analysis of every stock millionaire who has ever existed which shows unequivocally that every stock choice ever made had absolutely nothing to do with luck.

Lol, sure when I find 20,000 hours of free time I'll be glad to provide you that information from all over the world.

I'm sure that you are not going to make the claim that management success is only given its label AFTER the company has made profits...not before? Which is quite coincidental since two companies can have the same management style and one can fail while the other prospers.

There's so many things that go into managing a business that is so far and beyond someone's "style." There are so many things to consider on why one business succeeds and one fails it will take an entire thread or possibility and entire FORUM to list all of the possibilities. Come on.

I like how you mentioned "creativity" in your closing remark. I wonder how someone "learns" creativity...oh, wait, they don't. They have to be lucky enough to have been born creative.

That's true. And this supports the claim I made earlier in my criticism of Gurus who preach that just anybody can walk in and be a successful business owner or investor. So I agree with you on that. However, to conclude that "luck" or "gambling" is the basis of all business success is totally off base and that's really all I disagree with you on. But yeah, of course you could do everything right and something else could come up that you didn't plan for that could take you down, of course that could happen. But you also need to consider common sense and take a look at all of the realistic possibilities of what could happen not the "sky is falling" bull crap or similar.

 

[synergy1]

I forgot about this thread! Good times, even thought I am not at my first million yet!

on luck. **** happens, good and bad. Is it the gateway to rags or riches? Probably not, but most millionaires probably work their asses off when they are beset by bad times, and take full advantage of the good times. Just in my life, I can cite how luck may potentially be an opportunity to wealth. Within the past few months, I was approached with an idea for a company which has since gotten started and acquired funding to get going. its not much, but enough for salaries, some equipment and enough to get our idea rolling. They decided since my role was integral that I should be a part owner. The lucky part was being in the right place at the right time, and the non luck aspect was diligently working hard for the past 10 years and earning a sterling reputation as a good engineer.

lastly, one of my posts a number of years back talked about a speculative trading account. Dumb Idea. you don't make money trading chump change when commissions and capitol gains taxes errode profits. Index funds outperform short term trading in a 20 year window, and you need to put a whole 10 minutes into researching them. The basic point here is this; playing the stock market was a dumb idea. Don't get me wrong, still think investing is a great way to go since common stock issues still out perform all other equity classes.

Goals are simple. Be a millionaire by the early 30s, and be able to retire by my 40s. ( not that I will). now...to get to it!!!

 

[synergy1]

This thread was started in 2003 on the premise of getting rich. There has been a lot of back and forth on various semantics and ideals, but very little in terms of significant milestones, achievements, setbacks, and actual numerical figures to back up some very huge claims.. Str8, care to quantify your success? Has your business been profitable? Are you a millionaire yet?

Lets put some actual money where our mouths are. I am curious as to anyone's actual success following this method.

 

[TheHumanist]

Machiavelli elegantly said in his final chapters of The Prince that luck make up half the factors to success, but we have to take full responsibility for the other half. Even if it greater than that, we still need to.

Luck is where preparation meets opportunity. If a person is not prepared at all, in any form, to take advantage of an opportunity, that it will all go to waste. Sure, hard work doesn't always translate to wealth. However, without it, it will never come. Str8up did not get a formal education, but I'm pretty damn sure that he put in tons of time and energy to learn how to handle it. Hard work comes in more than one form. If Str8up or anyone else never even tried to venture, they would never got even as far as they did. The greater majority who reached wealth, was through a combination of both, sometimes more luck and sometimes more work, but a combination. More stock brokers hit it big by careful analysis and study than just by randomly choosing stocks.

Business endeavors doesn't make it by sheer blink luck. Luck, yes, but without the preparation, planning, research, vision, and everything, it would have folded... or need even more luck.

 

[STR8UP]

Sure, hard work doesn't always translate to wealth. However, without it, it will never come. Str8up did not get a formal education, but I'm pretty damn sure that he put in tons of time and energy to learn how to handle it. Hard work comes in more than one form. If Str8up or anyone else never even tried to venture, they would never got even as far as they did.

When it comes to money, it is often a matter of the blind leading the blind.

Where do most people get their financial education from? Usually it's the parents (most of whom aren't wealthy). For me, my parents always told me to ask my uncle, who has been a bank VP for years. Certainly someone who works around STACKS and STACKS of money should know a thing or two about it, no?

I can tell you that this assumption is not only 100% FALSE in most cases, but it is often the conservative banker types who are the most ingrained in the middle class mindset.

My uncle doesn't do bad for himself. Hell, he's an uber alpha, been single his entire life....he might have managed to sock away a couple mil for all I know. But I do know one thing, and that is that he is still working a 40 hour workweek in his 60's. NOT where I personally want to be at that age.

On formal education-

I started college a year out of high school. Scored honors level on my placement exams in everything but math (go figure). I stayed in for about a year. Got good grades. Felt like I was wasting my time and dropped out.

That is when my REAL education began. I poured drinks for several years. I started a lawn care business. I learned about real estate and started buying properties. I started a retail/service business. I dabbled in stocks from long term to day trading. I have tried my hand at show promotion. Gained lots of experience in marketing, branding, and video production. Taught myself photoshop so I could produce the fortune 500 quality graphic design that I demand for my businesses. Currently producing a series of instructional videos and line of products in the health/cosmetics industry.

I will put my education up against ANY college grad. Dollar for dollar, the knowledge that I have obtained will pay me more than you could ever learn in a classroom. Some people use their degree as a means to an end, I use my real world experience.

For example, I am currently working closely with a multi million dollar web based company with MY new business. They love me to death. They currently sell 3 products that I manufacture, soon to be 4. I could roll out a dozen more tomorrow and they would order every single one of them.

The first time I met the owners and management, we instantly clicked. Like minds think alike. They are very successful, and although my products are new, they recognized a winner and picked up my line instantly.

Do you think they gave even a passing thought to my level of formal education? Of course not. In my world, degrees don't matter. My personality, experience, and success do.

I'm not knocking formal education. We need people to be doctors and engineers and teacher, etc. But I don't want to be any of those. I want to run businesses and invest. I don't want to punch a clock. I bust my ass and fall flat on my face so I don't have to.

 

[The Message Boy]

This is an awesome ass thread lol. :yes:

In my world, degrees don't matter. My personality, experience, and success do.

Amen. Even though I'll be done with two Bachelor Degrees in April and then go on to start my MBA program, I'm only getting these Degrees for further credibility and image enchancements to my clients, but I don't need them at all. Matter of fact, the "education" is really not useful at all and the crap they teach most of the time is just canned crap that doesn't even apply to anything lol.

I've been in business for about one year and a half now and I love it. I've been a little frustrated this year but I'm getting it going. I have a passive residual income built up right now that averages around $2,000 to $2,500 a month, it's not alot but I could sit back and just continue to support the clients I have and live off this income for awhile if I wanted.

My goal is to get well over a six figure income, basically around $8,000 to $10,000 a month. I know I will get there because I know if I was able to get the 50 clients that I have now I can EASILY go and get more and I'm doing that currently.

I'm not a RE or Stock guy but I've been thinking about going into that.

Str8up and others, can I ask you, do you guys know of other great investments that offer a good return besides the following:

> Stocks
> RE
> Bonds
> Mutual Funds
> Land
> Gold

In other words, what are other great investments? Or what books can I read to learn of other types of investments that are typically less known?

 

[synergy1]

I am really curious why str8 did not actually respond to anything regarding the success of his method? He started the R/E venture 6 long years ago with the goals of getting rich quickly under the tutelage of Robert Kiyofraudski, but has done nothing to bolster outrageous claims except argue back and forth with people clearly more intelligent and successful than he was. His only cheering section where wide eyed teenagers who don't know the difference between a call option and a put option. I hope to god or any higher power that they don't take his advice and live off debt like str8 did (is).

Kids, read a real book about money like "The Intelligent Investor" by Benjamin Graham. Str8 wouldn't touch that with a 10 foot pole since he would be utterly and completely lost and uninterested after the first paragraph. Its quite dry and doesn't make promises of riches over night, but it illuminates exactly how our market works, and what makes a corporations valuable and profitable which in turn makes it worth holding as a security. Warren Buffet considered this book his bible, and developed his value investing techniques while at Columbia University ( see, that pesky college thing does pay off) under Benjamin Graham.

I don't have a problem with guilt about money. The way I see it is that my money represents an enormous number of claim checks on society. It's like I have these little pieces of paper that I can turn into consumption. If I wanted to, I could hire 10,000 people to do nothing but paint my picture every day for the rest of my life. And the GNP would go up. But the utility of the product would be zilch, and I would be keeping those 10,000 people from doing AIDS research, or teaching, or nursing. I don't do that though. I don't use very many of those claim checks. There's nothing material I want very much. And I'm going to give virtually all of those claim checks to charity when my wife and I die.

This topic was touched upon when duffdog was owning str8 in a verbal exchange back in march.

 

[Duffdog]

In my world, degrees don't matter.

This just sums up everything you have written Str8up. In the real world, they matter. Would you trust some engineer to design a bridge for you based on his personality? One thing that bugs me about the owners of this internet start up that you are working with is that they have absolutely no regard for education. You mean to tell me that in their entire organization, there is nobody who is required to have a degree? As a purely cautionary message to you (and in no way condescending); That is fvcking stupid! I can't believe that any reputable company would bet their entire existence on a series of "hunches" based on the perceived interpersonal traits of one of their vendors.

Your list of failed (and maybe continuing to fail) enterprises which did not work out in your favor are a testament to the fact that acquiring wealth is pretty much just a gamble. What will you gamble on next Str8up? More importantly, how many ventures will you halfway accomplish in your life before you realize that it is far more rewarding to just stick to something that you do well.

Speaking of doing something well, the original charter of the University system in California advises that there should be adequate depth and breadth of study available to students so that they might more fully understand their chosen path in life. This is something that I think you may have benefited from had you stayed in school. But, I know that its just going to fall on deaf ears as you move away from one failed enterprise and toward another one...maybe failing, maybe not... sure sounds like a gamble!

I wish you LUCK-- I'm positive you will need it!

 

[STR8UP]

I am really curious why str8 did not actually respond to anything regarding the success of his method? He started the R/E venture 6 long years ago with the goals of getting rich quickly under the tutelage of Robert Kiyofraudski, but has done nothing to bolster outrageous claims except argue back and forth with people clearly more intelligent and successful than he was.

Clearly more intelligent and successful huh? Um, okay.

I don't discuss my specific finances with anyone but my business partner. Not even friends or family. Got it?

Lets just say that the principles outlined in the original post are as sound today as they were back then.

Another thing that Those Who Have Never Been There will never understand- physical wealth ebbs and flows. The second you stop sticking your neck out and risking a loss, you stop growing. You can have all of the MONEY in the world, or you can have no money, but the one thing that no one can ever take away from you is your knowledge and wisdom, which will allow you to prevail in the end.

But to people like you it is all about money. You criticize my type for worshiping money, when it is you who is a slave to it. You don't understand it and you never will, because your narrow minded approach (as evidenced by calling "fraud" to worthwhile information) will always keep you thinking like 95% of people think, which will keep you from achieving what the other 5% achieve.

So if you glossed over the fact that I did say that it isn't always peaches and cream, that is your problem. It isn't a straight climb to the top. And if you REREAD the post, you will see that nowhere is there ever a "get rich quick" claim. "Get rich quicker than the average person", yes. There is a HUGE difference. But you might not be intelligent enough to grasp that.

Kids, read a real book about money like "The Intelligent Investor" by Benjamin Graham. Str8 wouldn't touch that with a 10 foot pole since he would be utterly and completely lost and uninterested after the first paragraph. Its quite dry and doesn't make promises of riches over night, but it illuminates exactly how our market works, and what makes a corporations valuable and profitable which in turn makes it worth holding as a security.

I am not familiar with this book, but if it sheds light on the stock market, it might be of value to someone who is interested in pursuing that route.

Unlike you, I won't discount information until I have reviewed it. In your narrow minded world, only the information that syncs with your middle class mindset is allowed to filter past your "B.S." detector.

And I'm PRETTY SURE that no matter what is in that book, it wouldn't have saved the majority of investors who followed the advice from the recent bloodbath that the stock market took right along with business and real estate.

This would be the "x" factor, to which duffdog refers, and it is real, no doubt, but what he fails to comprehend is that even if the stock, real estate, or business investor took a hit during the recent recession, THE WORLD DOESN'T END. In duffdogs mind, IT'S OVER.

And that is steaming crock of bullsh!t. You get punched in the face, you fall down, then you get right back up to fight. But that concept is lost on someone who believes that everything is out of your control.

You get hit time and time again, but what matters is that you live to fight another day, stronger and smarter. You go from working with thousands of dollars to working with tens of thousand to working with hundreds of thousands to working with millions, all the while learning from your failures. Each venture gets bigger, and you take on more risk when you venture into uncharted territory. You go from losing small amounts of money to losing larger and larger amounts of money, to being able to profit a small amount on a large operation, to finally being able to profit handsomely from your combined efforts.

This topic was touched upon when duffdog was owning str8 in a verbal exchange back in march.

If you call his hoodoo voodoo approach to wealth and investing "owning" then I suppose so.

I would hope that anyone who no longer believes in the tooth fairy would see it for what it is, but if not then the "luck" crew can be content living their lives wishing and hoping. I don't care either way.

 

[STR8UP]

This just sums up everything you have written Str8up. In the real world, they matter.

No, in the world of employee/employer relations they matter. In the world of business owner to business owner they have no merit, aside from status posturing.

Would you trust some engineer to design a bridge for you based on his personality?

I already explained that it is necessary for SOME people to have degrees, but it isn't necessary to have a degree to build wealth. If your life's calling is building bridges or removing cancerous tumors, by all means go for, but it's not for me.....

One thing that bugs me about the owners of this internet start up that you are working with is that they have absolutely no regard for education.

That is not what I said. I said that MY education was of no consequence.

You mean to tell me that in their entire organization, there is nobody who is required to have a degree?

Required? I don't know, I didn't hire their staff.

The point is, the person at the TOP does not need a degree. There is no degree required to be an investor or business owner. The owner doesn't have a degree, from what I gather, but he DOES have many years of experience in the business. Did he hire people who have degrees? Probably, but that beside the point.

I'm pretty sure if he heard you talk about luck the way you do he would be happy to tell you about the ten years he put into the business before it really started to pay off, and he would also be offended at the idea that his years of experience and hard work are discounted by someone claiming his success (during the worst economy since the great depression, no less) was all due to "luck".

Can you learn some things in college that are useful? Certainly. But you can also fall into the trap where you rely on your degree to fit into a slot in society rather than using it as a tool in your overall arsenal.

As a purely cautionary message to you (and in no way condescending); That is fvcking stupid! I can't believe that any reputable company would bet their entire existence on a series of "hunches" based on the perceived interpersonal traits of one of their vendors.

What? Bet their existence on traits of vendors? What the hell are you talking about?

I said that as far as I am concerned, my education is irrelevant. They bought my products based upon the quality of the products and my reputation in the industry.

Your list of failed (and maybe continuing to fail) enterprises which did not work out in your favor are a testament to the fact that acquiring wealth is pretty much just a gamble. What will you gamble on next Str8up? More importantly, how many ventures will you halfway accomplish in your life before you realize that it is far more rewarding to just stick to something that you do well.

And there you have it folks.

It is so much better to resolve yourself to mediocrity than to strive for greatness.

FYI- I have spend more than a decade "figuring out what I do well".

A buddy of mine that I went to h/s with is is a CPA who works for a major corporation. He will be droning away at the calculator until he's old and grey. No thanks.

Is an 18 yr old equipped with the tools he needs to decide what he REALLY wants to be for the next 50 years?

You have an economics degree, yet you work in some type of production, no? Hmmm......

I would rather spend 20 years trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up than regretting 50 years doing something that I THOUGHT I wanted to do when I was a teenager.

I think I'm done with this thread.

In true SS fashion, it has degenerated into the proverbial barrel of crabs. If any of the thousands of people who read this thread wants to take this info and explore their options with business and investing more thoroughly, I encourage you to do so. My life wouldn't have been the same had I not pursued my dreams.

To the rest of you who would rather listen to the naysayers talk about "fraud" and "luck", well, that's your path, and I hope you make he best of it.

I only have about 30 more posts until I retire from Sosuave forever. I'm not going to waste them arguing with people with a bunch of self-limiting beliefs.

I wish you the best, no matter what path you choose to take.

Peace out.

 

[Teflon_Mcgee]

Required? I don't know, I didn't hire their staff.

The point is, the person at the TOP does not need a degree. There is no degree required to be an investor or business owner. The owner doesn't have a degree, from what I gather, but he DOES have many years of experience in the business. Did he hire people who have degrees? Probably, but that beside the point.Peace out.

This is funny.
And to further illustrate the point (for Duffdog):

I'm currently working on a Masters degree in Engineering. How's that for education?

The funny thing is I whish I would have quite school 3 years ago.
(okay maybe not because I do love engineering)

The more experience I gain the more I realize that in order to meet my financial goals my degree plays absolutley no part
(as I aspire for slightly more than being stuck at a low 6 figures.)

What do I mean by this?
Well, I work for a medical device company. I'm finishing the design of a product. This product is going to be built for less than $100 and will sell for over $1000.

When I show the company owner my progress, I have to explain crazy stuff (like why I put a USB port on compared to a RS232 port.)

I work for this guy.
And I think that's all I need to say. If you don't get my point then we live in two different worlds.

I'd rather higher the guy with the degree and let him make me money than be the guy with the degree making somebody else money in return for a measly paycheck.

FWIW, I'm currently looking at business opportunities in fields so far removed from engineering that it's almost laughable an engineer would even think about them. So much for my degree....

 

[synergy1]

Teflon, word, I have my masters in engineering too. Many talk about how expensive college is, and the detractors talk about it being a waste of money. Alas, I did well enough in undergraduate and was likable so the university offered to pay for my entire education! I made money and got a masters in engineering...sweet!

str8, what a bag of wind. You didn't/ can't even answer my simple question without posting two pages of pure nonsensical mumbo jumbo. The truth is, you haven't earned crap. your true wealth ( assets less liabilities) is probably less than mine right now. Honestly, its not my business but you are advocating to these kids to build credit in ways like this:

Step 1- Borrow $1,000 on your credit card. You have $1,000in your hand.
Step 2- Deposit this $1,000 in a bank account. Go back a week later and borrow AGAINST your bank account. You OWE $1,000, but you have $1,000 on deposit. You walk out of the bank with $1,000 again.
Step 3- Repeat step 2 at a different bank. Again you walk away with $1,000
Step 4- Make a few payments on both loans (you made sure you can afford to cover these payments before you signed the papers!)
Step 5- You still have the $1,000 you borrowed from the last bank. Take this to bank #1 and pay off the first loan. Remember, you still have a $1,000 account at this bank!
Step 6- Use the money in the account at bank #1 to pay off the loan at bank #2. You still have an account at bank #2 that contains $1,000.
Step 7- Use the $1,000 that is in bank #2 account to pay off your credit card. Everything is paid!

Face it, you aren't a revolutionary. You stayed in the game when the going was good and banks were lending to any mouth breathing neanderthal. Now you are working as a middle man peddling another product. You have no true talent and will continue to be a middle man until your later years.

And if you REREAD the post, you will see that nowhere is there ever a "get rich quick" claim

Debt is not the ONLY way to become wealthy, but if used properly it is a very powerful way to build wealth quickly.

Since you talk so much, you also seem to contradict yourself a lot.

 

[strong like bull]

its sad how such a great thread deteriorates into petty arguments.

the bottom line, is that his original info and concepts are sound and true. you can disagree in opinion, such as... "i dont think id be happy investing in real estate."

but to disagree in fact, such as... "its ridiculous to build wealth through real estate." is ignorance. it is PROVEN, even in TODAYS market to be one of the most powerful tools/skills you can have. building a real estate business has been and will always be one of the most profitable business on earth.

the concept of buying property, then leveraging to acquire more property is as timeless and solid as you can get. it applies in any market, up down or sideways. str8 even pointed it out, for those who couldnt figure it on their own, those arent concepts that hes claiming as HIS creation. but offering helpful information to others who may be interested in expanding their horizons and learning more about real estate.

times and strategies change, as with any business, but the core concept will always remain true.


second, the difference between an employee mindset and the business owner or investor mindset. this is something that every man deserves to at least KNOW about. even if he doesnt want to take advantage of it. the reality of the world is that traditional, formal education shapes you up to be a good, responsible, on-time employee. if you look at how the school system is structured, you will see how long-term it conditions people to be yes-men, following their teachers (bosses) instructions, while having minimal original thought of their own when it comes to making big decisions.

its a natural path from school into the corporate world... because those companies are the ones that need the most employees. you transition from one mans system into another. working for someone else, having to ask permission when you need time off or want to be with your family, begging for a raise when you need more money because your wife is pregnant, etc. most important of all, being obedient to your boss.

now ask any successful BUSINESS OWNER or INVESTOR and they will tell you that one of the first things you need to do if you want to go into business for YOURSELF, is to UNLEARN all that traditional crap. you have to break down those self limiting structures because success in business/investing requires an open, creative, driven, rebellious and unrelenting mindset.

which is exactly why so many business owners (even the ones i know) barely made it out of high school, yet make ten times as much as any college-grad employee.

my point is that this isnt about RIGHT or WRONG. thats whats deteriorating this thread. people stopped debating facts and started attacking personal beliefs. its not about right or wrong, but what YOU want to do with your life.

if you want to be a doctor, engineer, lawyer, astronaut... you better take your butt to school. get your papers straight and go for your career. if thats what you want to do, then do it.

but make no mistake. you will be an employee. you will answer to a boss. your job security is ultimately in someone elses hands. and most likely wont be on a path to wealth, because you most likely wont be allowed that position in the company. if you are ok with that, so be it.

but not everyone is ok with that. a lot of people are RESENTFUL of having to answer to another man; having to ask him permission to do the things he wants or to get the things he needs for his family. THIS THREAD is for those men. the men who look their bosses and think to themselves, "i could do that idiots job ten times better than him". guys who know in their heart, an employee position will ultimately limit them in their goals of life.

again, not right or wrong. but there is a difference that needs to be respected. this thread is ultimately for those men who want to create their own ventures, be their own boss, override organizations, life live on their OWN terms, set their own standards of job security, decide for themselves what their salary should be, and in the end decide how wealthy they want to be.

business owners dont go to a thread about engineers and call them stupid for wanting to be engineers. the same shouldnt happen here.

if you have something valuable to contribute, then contribute. if you have insight, lets hear it. if you want to challenge a position, for christs sake at least have some ground to stand on before throwing around your opinions as if they were truths. because they arent.

-SLB

 

[The Message Boy]

if you have something valuable to contribute, then contribute. if you have insight, lets hear it. if you want to challenge a position, for christs sake at least have some ground to stand on before throwing around your opinions as if they were truths. because they arent.

Thank YOU!

Lol, I couldn't believe I was actually having a debate with Duffdog about the fact that small businesses create majority of the employment in this country.

I will make a longer reply a little later but Str8up did mention that he's leaving this site when he gets to 1,000 posts, well, I think you should still contribute to this thread.

Those that are actually IN business KNOW what you are talking about. While it's mostly motivational talk, to those in business it's food for the soul, similar to how a church song is to a devoted Christian.

So I want more threads like this.

And there is ALOT of accurate information in this thread, my only problem with it is that it also didn't include the DAY TO DAY realities of running a business. But perhaps that's not the purpose of this thread? If the purpose was just pure motivational and to set the mental framework this thread ACCOMPLISHED that.

synergy1 says :

Face it, you aren't a revolutionary. You stayed in the game when the going was good and banks were lending to any mouth breathing neanderthal. Now you are working as a middle man peddling another product. You have no true talent and will continue to be a middle man until your later years.

This is just not a fair assessment of Str8up's professional ventures. You know NOTHING about his successes and or failures because even to quote yourself, Str8up refused to go into details of his professional successes.

And why should he? Is it really anybody's business?

I believe the purpose of this thread was to set the mental framework and it did that, I would like to see MORE threads like this and I would like Str8up to stick around to contribute.

 

[synergy1]

This is just not a fair assessment of Str8up's professional ventures. You know NOTHING about his successes and or failures because even to quote yourself, Str8up refused to go into details of his professional successes.

And why should he? Is it really anybody's business?

I believe the purpose of this thread was to set the mental framework and it did that, I would like to see MORE threads like this and I would like Str8up to stick around to contribute.

This is because nothing he has said is substantiated by anything Factual. Any body can stand on a soap box and start telling beginners how to get rich, but without anything to back it up, what is the point? I am not asking for detailed cash flow diagrams, projected earnings, and net equity holdings as that would be going over the line, as you said. I wanted to know the overall success rate of his ideas, but instead he shoots back with a bunch of unintelligible sentances that aren't even in paragraph form.

At the beginning of the thread, he said by age 30 he was living off credit cards. Later on in the thread, he said he was operating in debt and living off money he didn't have. He might have the mental fortitude to withstand that pressure, but these beginners with no experience might not. I know it was mentioned earlier, but there are people who kill themselves over these kind of things. Speaking from personal experience: One of my friends at my last employer had over 1 million net worth all invested in in stock securities back when no one in the markets could do any wrong. He and his co workers had their retirement houses planned and their kids college education allocated until the 2001 bear market that basically annihilated their entire portfolio. One of his co workers was found dead with a self inflicted gun shot to the head.

Lastly, I want to even make it clear that I am not attacking his fundamental ideas. Part of my long term plan is to build a portfolio of small rental homes near college campuses ( paid in full with cash of course), and than rent them out to generate a small income stream for my later years. This will, of course be one of many equity vehicles I will elect to utilize. Do I think he has all bad ideas? no. do I think that he is promoting downright dangerous ideologies that might hurt others? yes.

 

[Duffdog]

but to disagree in fact, such as... "its ridiculous to build wealth through real estate." is ignorance. it is PROVEN, even in TODAYS market to be one of the most powerful tools/skills you can have. building a real estate business has been and will always be one of the most profitable business on earth.

This was true back when the market was moving in a positive direction. Now, its not. The 'leveraging' you are mentioning will soon disappear as the cycle of alt-a foreclosures and corporate real estate foreclosures take place. The cycles of credit expansion/contraction as it pertains to real estate now are far longer than the previous cycles in this country. It is unfortunate that this is the case, as there are many who are sitting on the sidelines waiting for the "recovery"...sadly, this recovery will not follow the classical definition due to the massive overextension of credit in the real estate markets. An astute investor would realize that the recovery cycle for this recession is not due for a very long time (+5 yrs) and will use this time to fund other projects which can create a systemic cash flow. Though it will be lower than the real estate boom cash flow of a few years ago.

The tips, principles and methods outlined by str8up in the original post are nothing more than a cursory examination of the current markets by a layman during a positive point in the economy. They are not "correct" insofar as any average person can look at the sky and say it is blue. Yes, it is "blue" to someone who doesn't understand refraction of light. It is the same with "investors" who jump on any bandwagon that they understand simply because they lack the mental power to sufficiently understand why large changes in the economy take place and how to utilize them for financial gains. Instead, these investors cling to a set of beliefs simply because that is ALL THAT THEY CAN DO, they really do not have the ability to look at financial market changes and explicate why these changes take place.

This creates a problem. While I am attempting to dumb-down economic concepts enough so that the uneducated can possibly understand them and use them for their own personal gains, there continues to be these little minions who cling to small unmeaningful details in an effort to "prove" that they actually have something to say. A good example is the employment sectors in this country. Whether or not someone found a stupid chart that proves who employs or does not employ the most people makes no difference at all. It just sort of reminds me of the little kid trying to butt into the conversation just so that he has something...anything to say.

And for the record, str8up does not have any new ideas. They are simply recycled concepts from any basic investing course-- or currently, those concepts are read by any finance major in college. So, while it seems that str8up has some sort of "key", you could learn everything he has learned in one semester of college with regards to real estate investing. Or, you could spend 10 years floundering about and eventually stumble on the concepts found in the most basic freshman finance course.

Your choice.

 

[Unbridled_Phoenix]

Popular courses in college:

Cog-in-the-wheel 101
Entitlement 302
Socialist Brainwashing 456

I've come a long way since college, but I was never anywhere near as bad as most of the turds I went to school with. I grew up on a farm and served in the USMC before all that. These kids in college today are fvcking worthless, they all think someone should pay them 50k to dress up and play with their facebook and cell phone all day. It's all a big game.

I think college does more to tell you why something cannot be done, hence the striking reality of education playing little if any role in the stories of the most successful people on earth. They succeeded because they didn't have a book full of reasons why they couldn't.

In that regard, I strive to "unlearn what I have learned."

This world always has, and shall it ever, belong to the dreamers with the guts to make their dreams reality. To those who take nothing and make it something.

 

[synergy1]

maybe your major or college was a joke, but my curriculum had virtually no time for any evil socialist agenda. Engineers would have 20 hours of homework easily on the first week of classes, none of it had to do with the evil shaming brainwashing communist party.

He is right, so many kids squander their time in college and waste a ton of money doing it. They go only for the sake of going to experience a college life, get laid and party a lot. At the same time, a good number pursue fields which require a collaborative effort in order to understand higher level concepts and applications. Thankfully, all that effort has paid off in the form of very marketable applicable skills which will likely ( but not necessarily) get me to my first million and beyond.

 

[STR8UP]

its sad how such a great thread deteriorates into petty arguments.

Kind of like when the moralists get their feathers in a ruffle over the idea that a womans actions might be heavily influenced by her monkey brain....

the bottom line, is that his original info and concepts are sound and true. you can disagree in opinion, such as... "i dont think id be happy investing in real estate."

but to disagree in fact, such as... "its ridiculous to build wealth through real estate." is ignorance. it is PROVEN, even in TODAYS market to be one of the most powerful tools/skills you can have. building a real estate business has been and will always be one of the most profitable business on earth.

Just as the beta/AFC masses must defend their ego investments in the mating matrix, so must the "educated masses" defend their long lifelong belief that the only way to succeed is to go to college, get the best degree you can, and work until you are old.

It is even tougher for people to lose their ignorant beliefs about money than it is for them to lose their ignorant beliefs about women. It's easy to discount the idea that there might be a few shortcuts to building wealth when you have a steady job that brings you a paycheck, and all of your friends and family are doing the same thing, making ends meet.

It isn't like with women, where it might be an all or nothing proposition. You can be comfortably (or uncomfortably) middle class pretty easily. Unless you are hungry enough to seek out the knowledge, you will never find it.

the concept of buying property, then leveraging to acquire more property is as timeless and solid as you can get. it applies in any market, up down or sideways.

Of course the detractors will all point to the recent market conditions and say "There! See! I told you so...you were WRONG!". They will totally gloss over the fact that I made it very clear that you only buy when you can get something that pays for itself, and if you were to have followed that advice, you wouldn't have anything to worry about in an up or a down economy.

They will shout "HA! I told you so! Look at the economy! You would have been a fool to have invested in anything in the past 5 years!", like they had some sort of crystal ball. Hindsight is 20/20. Let's all crawl into a cave and hide from the world.

We are in the middle of (hopefully soon coming out of) the worst recession of our lifetime. Businesses closed, jobs were lost (yes, even by those with college degrees), and it's pretty bad all around. I took a hit just like almost everyone I know. But you know what? It doesn't matter. Cause I take it in stride. I know that the whims of the economy mean little in the grand scheme of things.

And yes, the concepts that I outlined have been used for hundreds if not thousands of years in some form or another, and yes, they do work. Is there anything that is fool proof? Is it impossible to ever get caught in a downturn? Of course not. If you want guarantees you put your money into a savings account or buy bonds that barely keep up with inflation.

Fact is, a lot of these guys are scared. "OMG! What if I lose a thousand dollars?" If you are petrified to lose a thousand bucks (which most people are) then you sure as hell aren't going to have the stomach to lose more than what some people make in a lifetime.

So these folks can content themselves to earning a paycheck, believing their degree makes them immune to the ills of the economy, chucking away a few hundred bucks a month until they are "of retirement age". I'm not content with that. No one has to be.

second, the difference between an employee mindset and the business owner or investor mindset. this is something that every man deserves to at least KNOW about.

Absolutely. If you are AWARE of the world on the other side but choose not to partake it is one thing. But guys like this would rather deny its existence or its credibility than to open their mind beyond what their parents taught them.

str8, what a bag of wind. You didn't/ can't even answer my simple question without posting two pages of pure nonsensical mumbo jumbo. The truth is, you haven't earned crap. your true wealth ( assets less liabilities) is probably less than mine right now.

If I told you I am 2 million liquid you would call me a liar, and if I told you I am $1 in the hole you would call me an idiot, so even if I DID discuss these matters with anyone outside of my circle, it would be utterly pointless.

Honestly, its not my business but you are advocating to these kids to build credit in ways like this:

Care to back up your opinion with something other than "That's not the way it is supposed to be done"? How IS it "supposed to be done", Mr. Engineer? Who makes these rules?

My uncle the banker would tell me the same things you do, but I don't want to be like you or him, so I think I will go about things a bit differently.

Now you are working as a middle man peddling another product. You have no true talent and will continue to be a middle man until your later years.

I'm not sure which part of your posterior you pulled this from, but I can assure you that my latest business venture is far from being a "middle man" (like there is something wrong with selling someone elses product- this shows your ignorance). I don't manufacture the product, but I worked with a lab to create it to my specifications, and they manufacture it for me. I built the brand, the entire concept from the ground up. On the information side of it I wrote the entire script of the video that I am working on. All two hours of it. Every single word. And as soon as it is finished, I have retail and wholesale customers ready to start buying it up.

So please, continue grasping for anything to try to belittle me, because in the end it doesn't serve to tear me down, it only serves to make yourself look like a fool.

Since you talk so much, you also seem to contradict yourself a lot.

You take a quote from the end of the 500 reply thread out of context to prove that I advocate "get rich quick" schemes. You are gonna have to try a little harder than that to discredit me.

I believe the purpose of this thread was to set the mental framework and it did that, I would like to see MORE threads like this and I would like Str8up to stick around to contribute.

Setting a mental framework was EXACTLY the purpose of this post.

And I would love to stick around and argue with a bunch of guys who have never tried anything and think they have all of the answers, but I have already made up my mind to GTFO of here when I hit 7000 posts, so someone else will have to write something up. Seems like synergy and duff have an opinion. Maybe they can lead some financial discussions for the benefit of the group.

Whaddya say fellas?

Here ya go....

Part of my long term plan is to build a portfolio of small rental homes near college campuses ( paid in full with cash of course), and than rent them out to generate a small income stream for my later years.

Maybe synergy can start out by making a thread detailing why it is better to save up and pay cash for these properties (because he thinks it is "safer"), how he intents to do that (by scrimping and saving money he has to work his ass off for), and how long he anticipates this taking (forever).

Anyone with a little disciple can pinch pennies their entire life and live comfortably when they turn 60. If that's what you strive for, by all means, listen to these guys.