Becoming less submissive

[Mazeman11]

The older I get, the less tolerant I've become of immature and flaky behaviour from women. I no longer hesistate to call them out on their BS and don't think twice about completely walking away. I don't mean it or do it in a jaded or angry way. I simply point out bad behaviour and what I expect. I no longer follow the 'super cool and laid back' approach as that gets translated as wussy by today's standards.

Believe it or not, women are actually more drawn to me now and are more attracted than before. There's nothing wrong in being a true man and saying what you think and asking for what you want. Society has conditioned us in a way to become ultra passive and submissive. Every action is comtemplated fearing what the girl might think or how she may react. Time to let loose a litte.

Anyone share the same thoughts?

 

[ketostix]

Yes I have had similar experiences. I've posted before about callling women out on their poor behavior and how it can increase attraction. But it seems like the majority respond with saying it is a bad idea and useless, even counter-productive to call women out. I still stand by my view that it is useful to callwomen out in the proper way and at the proper time. That's how I recall the previous discussions about it anyway. It'd be interesting to see what kind of responses you get.

 

[Mr. Me]

What I've found is that it's useless to *argue* about most things. That just raises their defenses and there are so many ploys that people use, inherently, when arguing (like going off-topic, bringing up old grudges, shifting blame, rationalizations, etc) that it just becomes a routine that always ends up the same way. Arguing can also be counter productive and erode the relationship over time and make you come off as if you're too tightly wound if every little thing sets you off.

I've found that you have to pick your battles wisely. You have to not let them see you sweat. You have to live with minor annoyances because no one's perfect and save the heavy guns for what really deserves that attention.

I've found that using humor sends the message while not escalating the situation.

I've found that, when needed, a direct, calm, non-accusatory, assertive statement does the job and to not be concerned that it contradicts her, as your self-worth HAS to be the priority. If she respects you, if she knows you're fair and reasonable, she won't have a problem with it.

I've found that we can't expect or control what others do, but we can control ourselves and set reasonable boundaries for ourselves that we must maintain from the start. If the other person chooses to intentionally violate our boundaries, then there's a good reason to drop that person from your world.

I've found that if, when in the first date period with a new woman, if she flakes, she's really not that interested, if at all, and calling her out on it means you're admonishing someone who doesn't care. And if they don't care, then you sound like a squeaking wheel to them, and it's best to use your time and energy on higher interest women, hands down.

 

[STR8UP]

Where does this "if you don't say something a chick will think you're a pu$$y" thing come from? That's not how it works. This is in YOUR head, not hers.

Once again, unless you have leverage, it is useless to try to "put a woman in her place". Indifference is the most powerful tool you have with women.

So if you are in a relationship and she does something minor, yea, you need to address poor behavior. This is usually BEST accomplished without words, because when you get into a verbal sparring match with a chick via LOGIC, you will lose. Women are not logical therefore you can't expect to "win".

The best thing to do is to let your actions (or inaction) speak for you. Very seldom will a woman own up to her actions so you have to train her by giving a consequence to her actions- withdrawing your attention.

If you are cutting a chick out of your life words are equally as useless. Trying to verbally express your dissatisfaction only serves to make you look and feel weak.

Women are like children that lack accountability. Doing a takeaway is infinitely more productive than even the most eloquent choice of words.

 

[Mazeman11]

I am by no means advocating to get into argument mode and try to rationalize bad behavior. A simple, calm and assertive way is what I support.

Mr. Me, I agree with what you said:

"a direct, calm, non-accusatory, assertive statement does the job and to not be concerned that it contradicts her".

But there is a fine line here where guys get confused and don't know which route to take. I've found being "too passive" is almost as bad as being too aggressive.

What if you're encountered with a situation where a girl leads you on for a while then drop the LJBF line or says she's not looking for something serious. How do you handle that?

 

[Unbridled_Phoenix]

Mazeman, I think being too passive is worse than being too aggressive. When you were too aggressive, you were being a man. Or at least a bigger man than too passive guy.

LJBF is almost universally to be rejected. Only agree to an LJBF if your interest in her has dropped as well but you think a friendship with her would be beneficial to you in some way. If you can agree to an LJBF without feeling like you are compromising in any way, you are not playing the role of a pvssy, because you really don't care, but you know a friendship with her could benefit you in any way (other women, social & economic advancement, etc.).
However, this is rare because 9.9 out of 10 times its the guy didn't create or sustain interest but he's really wanting her and shes using the oldest line in the book to get rid of him. This guy, who will like to start looking back and seeing where he got it right, he will respect himself too much to pretend to want to be her girlfriend, and he will move on.

"Not looking for something serious" sounds alot like an LJBF, but it could also mean she just wants to fvck. An old friend from high school contacted me a couple weeks ago, we met up last night, and she flat out told me that she had just gotten out of a relationship and wanted to start fvcking. I just got out of one awhile ago, I'm catching wind in my next and greatest swinging bachelor phase, h3ll I'm gonna fvck 'er.

Anyway, in relation to the original post, I've become the same way, but it drives women nuts and I feel more like a man. Disagreeing with women is very powerful, you get in a little back and forth with them, and when you sense they are really starting to think you're an *******, you say "Look, I'm not trying to change your mind. I'm just saying how I feel about it." You just put her in a tension loop buddy!

But that is in a conversational/conflicting opinion context.

If she has disrespected you or behaved badly, STR8UP is right, Indifference and withdrawing yourself is the only response to it. You do not reward her behavior by giving her more attention and arguing with her, you pay attention to building your castle and other women, when you get around to them.

 

[Mazeman11]

More thoughts?

 

[Igetit!]

What if you're encountered with a situation where a girl leads you on for a while then drop the LJBF line or says she's not looking for something serious. How do you handle that?

If this situation happens,it means that YOU screwed up from the initial meeting,that YOU messed up from the very beginning. The usual situation where this happens is when a guy likes a girl,but he's too shy or afraid to let her know his interest because he fears rejection. So he keeps hanging around her and hanging around her until one day he finally finds the courage to ask her out,but by that time it's too late. She's already gotten used to you in a non-romantic/non-sexual way because of all that time you spent hanging out with her. That's when she'll pull the LJBF card.

You see the first part of your sentence where you said that you "encountered a situation where a girl leads you on for a while..."? That should never had happened. If she "leads you on",then your chances with her were loooong over with waaay before she pulled the friendzone thing on you. You just didn't realize it probably because you were too busy being nervous and scared about how to ask her out.

I know how to avoid the friendzone thing,but if I were to some how fall into it,how would I handle thesituation? I'd say ok,then I'd probably never see her again. If I want to have a relationship,then I'm going to spend my time trying to find a girl I like and who likes me,not hanging around her being her "friend".