Be REAL

[FlyGuy]

When you understand who you are (not who women, or sosuavers, or mASFers tell you to be) then you start radiating things that NATURALLY compell women to you.

Sorry man, but for some guys it takes more than just an understanding of self. For a lot of guys here its not necessarily just a problem of being yourself. Many times it is ALSO about not having skills that you need to actually GET to the point where a woman can see your true self.

Building confidence and improving your self image can be achieved through learning skills. Approaching women and carrying on an interesting conversation are skills. Setting up a date is a skill. Dressing well is a skill. Kissing and getting physical with a girl is a skill too. Some guys have learned these things intuitively through the years. Guys like me have had problems in one or more areas for various reasons.

Being myself, I didn't think clothes were that important. I thought that jeans and a t-shirt were just fine, why should I bother spending a bunch of money on clothes or waste my time figuring out what other people thought was "cool"? Being myself, I never wanted to lift wieghts. Why should it matter how strong I am in this world where intelligence seems vastly more important? Its not like I need to kill my dinner in melee combat. Being myself, I never wanted to learn how to dance because I didn't like the music in clubs and I never had fun dancing. Besides, being myself I simply didn't fit in with the "in" crowd. Etc.

These are just a few personal examples. These were not problems that were a result of NOT being myself... they were a direct result of it! You don't think that how you dress matters to women? You don't think that a nice physique matters? You don't think that a girl will care if you have poor social skills? Come on man, we both know that these things DO matter! These things won't necessarily attract women by themselves (although they can), but they will definitely PREVENT you from attracting women if you don't work on them.

What you call gimmicks and tricks, I call stepping stones for building these social skills. Being ****y/funny is one way of developing a sense of humor (one particular style), which you can INTEGRATE into yourself and find your own way of developing that aspect of yourself. And as we know, women like a guy with a sense of humor. Heck, nobody likes a stick in the mud

You don't have to use the ****y/funny approach but it is a way to start working on it. The more you work on it the more you integrate it into yourself and find your own ways of expressing it, you become more confident in yourself during conversation and interactions with women, etc.

Following the rule about not calling too often or too soon is a way to kill off some of the desperate behaviors that can drive women away, like calling four times a night and leaving two messages. Call it challenge, call it whatever. It doesn't matter. We all know that if a girl likes you it won't matter if you call the next day or next week after getting her number. But for guys that are not experienced in the dating game it is a good way to make sure they don't let their nerves get the better of them and chase the girl off before they even setup the date!

Of course, you can take any of these ideas TOO far and end up driving away the girl. Everything in moderation.

The women in my life (my mom, sisters, etc.) told me for YEARS to just be myself in order to find a girlfriend. Needless to say, their advice didn't work. It hasn't worked for a lot of guys. What they should have told me was to improve myself, my self image, and my social skills. That's what this site is about. I'm still going to be myself, I'm just going to be the best that I possibly can.

 

[Survivor]

Originally posted by xblitz44x
The self improvement thing is great. I'm all about that. But the theory that if you ACT like a challenge, and ACT busy, and ACT confident, that it'll just all of a sudden 'happen' is silly. To be truely confident is to be confident in yourself, not in strategies and tricks that you picked up from a website.

-Blitz

Great thread, blitz. I'm certainly in agreement with you. But I'd have to respectfully disagree with that one last statement.

For those us like myself who at one time were die-hard "AFC"s, acting busy and acting confident were all an important part of learning what doesn't work. Again, I go back to the "waiting four days" example.

Let's say a newbie lucks up and gets a home phone number from a girl he's admired since freshman year. Then, like a good little DJ, he waits a prescribed four days....and waits...and waits.

Will waiting help him get the girl? Nah, not really. For getting the girl, the "wait four days" rule is useless. But that's not the point. Because after a while, the newbie gets tired of waiting. He makes the decision for himself that obsessing over a girl is a waste of time and finds more productive things to do with his life. So, in an indirect, roundabout way, the classic "rules" of this site DO teach the individuality needed to be successful with women. Yes, blitz, its does "happen", just not all of a sudden. Growing up takes time. Theres no way of getting around that fact of life.

If someone instead tells this newbie directly, "You don't need all those rules. The problem is that you're a desperate wuss who needs to get a life! You need to be secure in who you are as an individual. You're a wimp and you need to toughen up.",...unfortunately his EGO (this word alone deserves its own post) will not allow him to accept such good advice. Because to accept such advice would also mean doing things that require more humility and hard work than he's willing to commit to, such as accepting full responsibility for his failures and improving himself such that he does gain the respect of the women he admires.

So for some us, the lesson must be taught passively through ..."rules". Yes, they are silly, inefficient, and they certainly won't get anyone laid. But the "rules" exist because some of us have to learn the hard way.

You see, by following the "rules" of this website, I did something that I had never done before...I TOOK ACTION! None of the good advice I was given beforehand had motivated me to do such. At least with the bad advice, I was actually doing something, and finding out for myself what did and didn't work. Its not too far of a stretch to think that that was the case for alot of guys here. So don't be so quick to bash all of the "strategies" and "tricks". Lets not forget, what's obvious to us now wasn't so obvious 3-5 years ago.

I think what you're trying to do is bypass the reality of the male ego. Sure, it would be nice if everyone immediately owned up to their weaknesses and diligently worked on them irregardless of what others thought of them. But like STR8UP said in another post, if that was the case, we'd all be millionares.

 

[FlyGuy]

IMO its not just about the Ego either... when your self image is fvcked up, when you have no social skills, etc. then you may not even know HOW to become confident and have fun in social settings. That was my case at least and I know others have experienced this too. Its not that I couldn't admit that I was to blame all these years for my own failure, its just that I didn't know even where to begin and I didn't have the self esteem I needed to keep going in the face of adversity.

Blitz, you said that confidence won't just happen through acting... you're right! But it can happen through self improvment and work. Having rules can build confidence until the rules aren't needed anymore. Call it a crutch if you want. You have to stand before you can run

I think we're just getting caught up in semmantics and philosophy, at least we agree that in the end you WILL be yourself - your fully realized, confident self. That will be what attracts women, and you will do it naturally by being yourself.

 

[JustDoItAlways]

I personally think the "rules" and the "tricks" and the "techniques" and adopting a winning "philosophy" ALL WORK.

You might as well use ALL of them. Throwing them out to "just be yourself" is one of those things that doesn't work.

Just take each of the little tricks one at a time and decide if they are worth using or not. If they work for you, adopt them in your personal style.

One example is the use of "Social Proof". This little trick just happens to work dam4 good, but most guys do not naturally understand this little technique. Most guys think that making her a little jealous, having her see you with another girl is just going to drive her away. Why, because this is how it works in our minds. We see a girl flirting with all the guys in the bar and most of us are turned off. But a woman's reaction to this is completely opposite. She is turned on.

Now some guys understand Social Proof instinctively. But most of the rest of us need to learn this little trick from a website like this or from friends, then try it out and see how well it works. Maybe we need to use it many times before it becomes ingrained in our natural style.

This is the way I look at it.

And other more sophisticated techniques like speed seduction and patterns, well those work too. You can't use them all the time and this alone is not going to get you into a girl's pants. But there are times when a good pattern used at the right time in the right way has such a huge impact on the girl. I know I have gotten laid because of them. After all, they are not much different than what use to be called "sweet talk" which was the most successful pick-up strategy over the last several decades. I don't use the canned patterns any more, because a little situation-specific sweet talk used at the right time goes even farther as well. I've adopted the techniques of speed seduction to my personal style.

This is the way I look at it.

 

[STR8UP]

Hey, great post. I love to see an intelligent discussion come around from time to time.

Not sure where it was but I read that we ALL have a great personality hiding underneath our inhibitions, but it's VERY true. Gimme a few shots of liquid courage and I'm a different person. Sad but true.

The problem I face is that my spidey-sense gets in the way. When I meet someone new I don't show any of my cards, cause I simply don't like most people. This gets in the way of getting into the click that cultivates making other connections. You might not like Suzy or Jim but get in good with them and they might introduce you to their friend Jenny.

As for the ego thing- yea, until you become enlightened to the fact that it is YOU who is responsible for your ultimate success or failure in ANY and EVERY aspect of life you will NEVER improve your situation.

 

[jive]

Originally posted by Survivor
... So, in an indirect, roundabout way, the classic "rules" of this site DO teach the individuality needed to be successful with women. Yes, blitz, its does "happen", just not all of a sudden. Growing up takes time. Theres no way of getting around that fact of life.

If someone instead tells this newbie directly, "You don't need all those rules. The problem is that you're a desperate wuss who needs to get a life! You need to be secure in who you are as an individual. You're a wimp and you need to toughen up.",...unfortunately his EGO (this word alone deserves its own post) will not allow him to accept such good advice. Because to accept such advice would also mean doing things that require more humility and hard work than he's willing to commit to, such as accepting full responsibility for his failures and improving himself such that he does gain the respect of the women he admires.

So for some us, the lesson must be taught passively through ..."rules". Yes, they are silly, inefficient, and they certainly won't get anyone laid. But the "rules" exist because some of us have to learn the hard way.

You see, by following the "rules" of this website, I did something that I had never done before...I TOOK ACTION! None of the good advice I was given beforehand had motivated me to do such. At least with the bad advice, I was actually doing something, and finding out for myself what did and didn't work. Its not too far of a stretch to think that that was the case for alot of guys here. So don't be so quick to bash all of the "strategies" and "tricks". Lets not forget, what's obvious to us now wasn't so obvious 3-5 years ago.

I think what you're trying to do is bypass the reality of the male ego. Sure, it would be nice if everyone immediately owned up to their weaknesses and diligently worked on them irregardless of what others thought of them. But like STR8UP said in another post, if that was the case, we'd all be millionares.

Good post survivor, I totally agree.

 

[comote]

I “sort of” agree with you Blitz. I believe in order to be successful in any arena you have to learn how to make the actions that make one successful part of your nature. Yes, you are successful now, after a year of being here and other websites and learning everything they have to say about picking up women.
Of course when you meet a woman you should not be asking yourself a million questions about how to act, but through absorbing the material here and learning from your various experiences with them you have learned what works for you and what doesn’t. The end result is that you are a man who doesn’t need rules to know how to pick up women because you have internalized them. In my opinion intuition is really just a result of all of our past knowledge and experiences coming together in our subconscience to provide a guess as to what will happen. With this reasoning I have learned I should trust my intuition in all regards.
I hate to use a math analogy but after taking derivatives for going on ten years I do not need rules to take a derivative, but when I first started I did. At this point in my life taking a derivative is almost instinct. What if as a math teacher I told students they do not need the rules because I don’t, I just do it naturally, I would not be a very good teacher.
Same goes for the newbies here. Something needs to tell them not to profess love on the first date or talk about marriage and her being the one on the second date. Why, they have not had the huge build up of intuition that someone who has learned has.
I said it best in a post somewhere else,
Yes your advice sounds a lot like be yourself, but who honestly wakes up and says
“ I want to be a huge ***** today”
so we are teaching people they do not want to be pussies.

 

[ShortTimer]

Originally posted by FlyGuy
Its not that I couldn't admit that I was to blame all these years for my own failure, its just that I didn't know even where to begin and I didn't have the self esteem I needed to keep going in the face of adversity.

This pretty much sums up why "just being yourself" doesn't work in practice.

 

[Oxide]

Wow! All this time i've been working on myself, noticing unusal things (from what this forum suggests) .. then post my ideas...

and 5 months later i realze that i'm exactly where my bro's here were a year ago... damn i knew motu and blitz are my kind of guys!


Fuking crazy. Same thing. Word for word.

this forum isnt as lost afterall.

 

[TitaniumFireBEAR]

This ties into That.

I'll follow up with Xblitz and agree with 100% of what he says. Having gotten into the drugdery of Seduction, Hypnosis, NLP, DYD/CF, etc I have a good 'feel' of what works and what doesn't.

First off...engaging and entertaining these systems opened my eyes. Perhaps they're a part of who I am subconsciously, perhaps not. I don't bother to 'think' that through or kick my analysis by paralysis into high gear. Instead, I took Mr. Fingers advice and did 2 things.

1. Learned to love life. I stopped analyzing situations. At best we can only make an INFORMED decision. There is NEVER perfect information. Doctors operate without proper knowledge of the outcome. Presidents make life changing decisions based on cabinet advice and crappy intel. Cruise liners constantly correct course as they travel to a destination. Weather men forecast weather in %. So why should we stress our lives as if every decision is life or death?

2. Live in the now. Quiet the "iD." Stop wondering about the person not next to you. Don't bother with work that's unfinished elsewhere. If you're with your pals playing XBOX, play XBOX. If you should be doing something more important, do it. Don't analyze it. Life isn't something placed under a microscope that was meant for dissection. It is meant for enjoyment.

Sometime ago, i ceased buying self-help books. The only 'self' I was 'helping' were the new writers I continued to buy from. I maintain the highest stable of books, including the Bible and a few others and puruse those until I've soaked myself in their knowledge. It does no good to spend another $20 on a book which won't quench my knowledge thirst if I haven't extracted all I can from the previous book. THIS, I found was a problem of MINE. And I've eradicated it since then.

What becoming yourself is and being yourself means.........

IS

....become who you want to become. If who you are isn't getting you where you want, work on it. Work on your logic, your thoughts, your beliefs, your values, your body, your mind, and your spirit. Work on your education, your spending habits, your hobbies, work to learn languages, martial arts, etc.

BEING that person will automatically make you attractive because you'll have accomplished more than most. THAT's what's attractive. Not alpha or beta. Not this or that. But being some disattached from the normal social institutions. Someone with a LIFE. Alot of people believe they have one, but they don't. They cave to whims and fancies. They crumble at marketing and at people's requests. They don't follow their own path. They don't venture a venture. A LIFE IS SOMETHING YOU MAKE. Your parents gave you the GIFT of it, now MAKE something of IT.

You're like a piece a playdough to be molded into whatever you desire. Nobody knows what you're capable of but you, so go do it!

In so many situations, I very well could have employed CF or any other tactic, but as previously explained before, you don't realize if you're just out to meet people and have fun. Pretty much every date, every hook up, and every girl I've come to the fortunate pleasure of knowing, was nonchalantly through some randomness of just being social. It's carried over to a network of Hooters girls (not that that's a prize), as well as many other beautiful fems with grand potential.

Many of my friends go with the mentality that "I have to pick up this chick" and do it in such a way that they sling some game at her. Many times it works, because they're great friends, yet in the presence of someone down for life, it falters. It's 'felt', it's meant to be social. Slinging game or seduction or hypnosis is hardly workable on a short street conversation with a girl who's wearing only a T Shirt and booty shorts with no bra (recent meet n greet).

I'm not going to describe a tactic...because there isn't one method or approach that works uniformly. I've witnessed bosses and friends, accomplished folk who are able to get what they want whenever they want in an ethical way do it time and time again. Being you now might not get you where you want, but then again, that would be too easy and WE ALL WOULD HAVE WHAT WE DESIRE. Be who you need to be to get what you want.

Not only do you get the benefit of personal growth and greater happiness, but now you have done something with yourself and your life, and that's infinitely more important than any woman, any PU, sex, drugs, or rock n roll. Knowing you can create and repeat results with some control is the greatest pleasure we have. I liken much of life to a video game (but no killing cops you vice city fans). How so?

Well, whenever I first started, I'd suck at most games unless I employed a cheat code. Well, in life we have cheat codes, too. In vice city, you can get weapons, money, or turn the cops off, but what happens? Many types OTHER things screw up too, like the ending, etc. In life, cheating the code is like taking a short cut to success. There isn't one worthy of the goal. Yet, if you play the game through enough, you'll beat it, and you'll be a master. It works the same in life, in dating, in working out. Consistency of defined and progressive action will lead you to your ultimate goal.

Being persistant works, but if you're persistantly pounding your head against a rock, it will come time for surgery. Instead work to get yourself pounding the girl of your dreams who wants to POUND you back. It can happen, you have to belief. If you don't belief, you won't attempt it, and you won't even know what you could have done.


End.


.02 Courtesy of B.E.A.R.

 

[babemaster2000]

Alright, so basically we should:

BECOME a man, then

UNDERSTAND attraction, with that we should,

INCORPORATE them into our personality so they become second nature, and finally

BE ourselves

 

[Oxide]

babe.. lemme fix that up:

Alright, so basically we should:

BECOME a man, then

BE ourselves

 

[Sardaukar]

I wouldn't take any advice that posts a link in his sig to seducingwomen101 written by a girl-power *****.

 

[Oxide]

...and i feel sorry for you Sardaukar

 

[Sardaukar]

And I feel sorrier for you. Destini9 could probably take a dump in your mouth and you'd eat it up with a smile like a good boy.