"Average Joe"

[Sting]

Good looking guys are often the beneficiaries of positive reinforcement from a very young age. As a result, they become "natural" PUAs/DJs. Men who grew up fat, suffered from severe acne, skinny, woefully poor eyesight, etc... ("dorks") were the recipients of negative reinforcement.

Accordingly, no matter how much a man tries to change from being a dork (e.g., makes millions, new clothes, etc...) he will never be able to change the fact that he was a dork when he was younger. The psychological conditioning is ingrained. As a result, it's likely that such a man won't/can't radically change his looks even after he becomes wealthy (e.g., plastic surgery, steroids/hGH for muscle growth, etc...).

Any man who is serious about completely changing himself from a "reformed dork" to a PUA/DJ needs to go beyond simply learning how to play the game, getting a haircut and updating his wardrobe. He needs to radically makeover everything in his life; nothing should be "off the table."

It is an important caveat to the foregoing advice that undergoing a radical change should be for yourself, not for simply attracting women. If you're contemplating doing so just to get laid, you're doing it for the wrong reason.

 

[Kineti[C]harm]

That would be wrong.

 

[elvis aint dead yet]

That's the problem with people, this site, and everything in general.

For some people, it's not just as simple as, GO OUT and PICK UP CHICS.

There might be some psychological things affecting that person from moving on.

I once dated this women whose mom abandoned her at a young age. She might have gotten over it, but it left sever scars on this persons life. And the girls was 24 when I was dating her. I might have told her she needs to get over it and move on with her life, but I grew up with both my parents around, so I really don't know what she felt, no matter how much I listened, researched, etc.

While this might be what is being said, it relates because, some families aren't as nice as everybody elses.

Some people are called losers, fat, scum, never gonna amount to anything, skinny, why can't you be like your sibling, nerds, dorks, stupid jock, and so on. I've had friends whose parents said these same exact things to their children. It was kind of disturbing in a way.

ANd it is esp disturbing if the kid is overweight and already insecure about himself.

True he might grow up, become a millionaire, lose 100 pounds and so on, but that's rarely the case. Some people do wind up doing great things, but those people who are the HOT DJ guys back in school wind up doing great things too.

There are plenty of people who go to High School reunions to show off what they look like, who they are dating, how much they are making and what they do 10-20-30 years later. And you know what usually happens, in many cases, it's like they are back in high school all over again.

Telling somebody like me to go out and pick up chics back in the day would work, but telling somebody who has sever emotional scars from childhood to do the same, isn't always the best medicine.

But hey, why should most of the people on this site worry. Many of you refuse to date women with emotional problems and/or scars.

Well then, for the majority of the people on this site, AVG GUYS who might be DJs or AFCs, why should anybody date you if you have emotional problems and scars?

 

[Sting]

Originally posted by Kineti[C]harm
That would be wrong.

You're entitled to your opinion. That's why this is a discussion board. Without different opinions, there wouldn't be any discussion. On the other hand, I would have appreciated some reasoning for why my posting was wrong.

Now, with that out of the way, here are some links to various "makeover" resources:

(for finding a new hairstyle -- pay site)
http://www.thehairstyler.com/

http://www.focusonstyle.com/mensmetrosexualmakeover.htm

"Celebrities, male models, and the idle rich or luckily well-informed have always managed to look better than the average Joe. Perhaps, that's how they got to where they are in the first place? But the one thing that they share is a little extra time in paying attention to their skin, having the right haircut, wearing clothes that fit, and not being ashamed of it. Keep in mind, women do appreciate men who take care of themselves that's not such a big deal if you figure how to master what works for you."

"Before you start the visual revamping, you need to clear out the cerebral attic. Who wants this makeover, you or your wife? If you are not comfortable in your own skin, nothing you wear will make you feel great. Conversely, always stay within what you feel comfortable wearing to avoid raising the suspicions that there's a fashion victim in need of style resuscitation."

http://www.cottoninc.com/DNR/homepage.cfm?PAGE=3730

http://www.askmen.com/fashion/trends_60/91_fashion_men.html

"Despite what Sprite will try to tell you, image is everything.
You judge others via first impressions, and the image they portray is part of those first impressions. By the same token, your look is part of what makes you, well, you. Are you ready for to change the way you look, at least a little? Well, every now and then, you should put at least a little effort into your image, and take the way you look to a whole new level."

http://www.dfwnetmall.com/yatesmakeover.htm

http://www.nbc5i.com/money/2643885/detail.html

And as for undergoing plastic surgery as an "extreme makeover":

http://extratv.warnerbros.com/refra...nerbros.com/dailynews/rxtra/02_01/02_02b.html

http://www.cnn.com/2000/fyi/teachers.offcampus/10/12/buffed.men/
"One 42-year-old New York business executive calls it "the best thing I ever did." Larry -- he prefers his last name be withheld -- says he has had eyelid and nose adjustments, Botox injections to reduce forehead lines and liposuction. "There are certain areas I just couldn't lose through diet and exercise."

"There's no question we're a youth-driven economy nowadays," he says. "I travel all the time. People are making first impressions about what I say and do based on how I look."

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/news/specialsegments_Nov02/020503_ss_heissovain.html



Now for an opposing perspective, see this link:

http://userpages.umbc.edu/~jb2/es ps.html

 

[wheelin&dealin]

Did the average joe have down syndrome? Or did he just have two lazy eyes? Because that guy wasn't working at full mental capacity.

 

[Sting]

Originally posted by elvis aint dead yet
There might be some psychological things affecting that person from moving on.

Exactly. Sometimes you need to completely transform yourself psychologically and physically to become someone else to escape a past that was not a result of your own choices. If you have the time and the money to do it, by all means do so. Remember, you only get one life, so let it be a life of your choosing.

 

[Thoroughbred]

To those of you who haven't noticed- most women will go for good looks over money. I am talking about women that aren't materialstic. Even a lot of golddiggers will have guys they are attracted to physically. That is the way it should be, they should be into your looks otherwise you are being used for money.

I guess you didn't really watch the show, but the good looking guy was way more confident than the average joe. The average joe was VERY insecure, especially on that last date where he got all pissed because Melena was thinking about the other guy.

 

[Thoroughbred]

It is true about a guy's past. Even when you do change, your past is still there. You can look different, but you might still FEEL the same way you did when you were young. Which is another thing to think about. But, really there is nothing better when it comes to women than being good looking.

 

[Thoroughbred]

I remember there was a study done recently. It showed that good looking teachers are better instructors than bad looking ones. I think it also had something to do with height. This is because people pay more attention to someone with looks. And, I have to agree. Back in school, what would you rather have? A hot teacher or an ugly one? I know which one I would pay attention to.

 

[white_hype]

i saw most of the average joes and here is my take on it (the right take):

the adam guy (dork) lost because he acts more like a best friend... hes really goofy, always crackign jokes, goofy smile, talks weird, has no idea how to be intimate with a woman.. and he named eveyrthing in his bar after that chick... THEY ONLY WENT ON LIKE 4 DATES, WTF

jason (pretty boy) won b/c good looks, knew how to handle a girl (intimate), didnt act all goofy, laid back, calm, collective, cool

even though jason won, i dont think he should have, he had no personality

i think she picked him because she saw that adam had no chance of a future with her, and thought jason would be cool to hook up with a few times... THEY WILL NOT BE IN A SERIOUS RELATIONSHIP, hes aloser

 

[Thoroughbred]

Think of it this way white hype- jason was the best one or one of the best out of the guys, which is not saying much, but that is why he got picked by her.

In the beginning a chick is not thinking about getting all serious anyway, so I don't think she was really thinking about just hooking up with him a few times like you say.

 

[white_hype]

Originally posted by Thoroughbred
Think of it this way white hype- jason was the best one or one of the best out of the guys, which is not saying much, but that is why he got picked by her.

In the beginning a chick is not thinking about getting all serious anyway, so I don't think she was really thinking about just hooking up with him a few times like you say.

nice way of summing it up, yea thats what i ment

best of the bunch of losers lol... its like you have to go to a chinese restaurant and you hate chinese so you just pick what seems ok even though you will hate it/never eat it

 

[Thoroughbred]

Umm, the thing is I'm pretty sure she doesn't see him as a loser. I think she is into him. It really looked to me like she dug him a lot, and she had made up her mind a long time before the very end. With everything she said, she sees him as a great catch.

 

[becker]

Originally posted by Drex
Hey Becker if you think Meleena was a 7 and the Hawaii chick is only a 4 then I'd love for you to post some links to pictures of women you think are 9-10s. Meleena was a friggan knockout, she was like an 8.5 on a bad day, and easily a 9 on a good day. Did you see her ass when she was getting that massage at the spa??? Or all those times she was in a bathing suit....

I think that Milena was definitely much hotter than how the Hawaii girl looked. I didn't find the Hawaii girl that attractive to be honest. That one girl that you had posted about that was your ex-oneitis seemed better looking than Milena too. Milena was cute, and I certainly wouldn't be complaining too much with a girl like that.

Jessica Alba is my idea of a 10. I have yet to see a girl who is as hot as her anywhere. Search the internet if you don't know who she is.

 

[golf299]

the guy who won, not an afc??

he was just on Leno and melanna was talking about how she's "working on him". then she goes on to tell how shes got him using teeth whitening strips and plucking his eyebrows...

please...

 

[Thoroughbred]

huh? how is whitening your teeth and plucking your eyebrows AFC? Girls always want to do crap like that with guys. I don't see how that is in any way AFC though. You saw everything Adam did? That was pretty bad.

 

[becker]

All I saw was Adam doing a pretty good job with the C+F and the pretty boy sitting back and waiting for Milena to fall for him. Both were somewhat insecure, although Adam certainly has a reason to be, with his looks. The guy is a pretty ugly dude, sorry to say. You're not going to get that many women swooning over you with a face like that.