Attraction.

[hawk29]

I just read an interesting concept from radiodude which said that attraction is either there or not. If it was ever there, but you've starved it off, it's just dormant.

My question is WITHOUT games (ie no contact, mind f-ing, etc), what do you guys think can be done to reawaken dormant attraction? We are talking about in the context of a LTR where the couple - ie ME - is very much in the power struggle phase of the relationship. We are arguing about stuff all the time, generally annoyed with each other, etc. Clearly neither of us is feeling attraction right now (and definitely not from her end). I know its not me per se - we were hot. But this context and situation has understandably harmed that connection.

However, I do want to figure out the boundaries of these issues to determine whether we could be compatible for the long term, and thus refuse to just walk because intimacy is down. I know a part of it will just be talking everything out like she says, but I'm just wondering what else can be done. I like the suggestion of trying to get back to a place where things related to me are enjoyable. The problem is we do have problems right now...we can't just avoid these hard talks that are approaching. And I'm not just going to ditch her because of the power struggle - I'll never have the relationship I want if I keep trying to control these women. I know we can find either a solution or the answer that we are just not compatible people. But in the interim, how can I be most attractive. Strong viewpoint, strong expression? That kinda stuff?

Need good examples of stuff that has worked. Not theories. I don't have the time to be trying stuff right now. Stage 2 of relationships is exhausting enough...

 

[ThatMysteriousGuy]

Need good examples of stuff that has worked. Not theories. I don't have the time to be trying stuff right now. Stage 2 of relationships is exhausting enough...

"Talking everything out" doesn't work. She's mistaken. That means "I want to talk" in ******** and that's normal for a woman to say that. The real issues won't be stated because they're about "feelings". So, don't put much effort into trying to try to read between the lines when she's emotionally upset. Women do think they can talk things out but they always end up getting emotional and not processing the logical content at all.

I'll just concentrate on the arguing. Get that out of the way and you'll be able to see more clearly what the problems are. This is aimed at an LTR you're trying to stop from going over the cliff so some stuff IS NOT USEFUL FOR DATING SITUATIONS. (Like if she's being a biatch and trying to provoke an argument on the third date, that's completely different)

STOP ARGUING. DO NOT ARGUE.

State your point in two short sentences AT MOST and let her run with whatever she's going to say. Make sure that you're in a non-threatening position like sitting a distance away. Do not approach her. Do not get up. Do not threaten "whatever" like leaving her or going to the bar. Do not EVER touch a woman in any way when she's pissed. If she gets upset that you're not getting into the argument, tell her that she has your full attention and you don't see how another escalating argument will help your relationship. Then, let her go with whatever again.

STOP GETTING PROVOKED BY WHAT SHE SAYS.

No matter what she says, it is NOT AT ALL PERSONAL. Ever. It's about feelings she can't express clearly. When a woman starts to see a) she can't provoke you, and b) you're immune no matter what insults she hurls (or whatever) she'll feel bad about it if you don't react by hurling something back. Since you're not escalating an argument, and she's the one "being bad" and out of control, the argument won't blur out in her mind and she won't have anything to hold on to where you were wrong in the argument. She'll spend more time searching her feelings rather than being angry at one sentence you said in the heat of the argument. This is good for your relationship and her as well.

Again, pound this in your head. It's not about you, it's about her feelings.

DON'T TRY TO CONVINCE HER OF THINGS LOGICALLY. It's pointless. She feels how she feels, that's it.

If you do all three of those things you'll notice you're actually controlling yourself and she will notice that in a subtle way that will effect her in a more positive way. Really. Keep your cool. No more arguing. Your head will be clear and you can pay attention to what emotions she's flipping through and how she's acting with body motions.

And, maybe (probably) you'll find that one of the biggest issues is that she's emotionally bothered that she can entice you into an argument & losing your composure at will :nono: Don't lose your composure anymore. She'll like that even if she biatches about it and starts up with "don't you care anymore?"...ignore that, seriously. Emotional arguing is her battleground and you'll always lose. She'll just be thrown off that you're acting more Alpha (like you were earlier in the relationship? )

"But in the interim, how can I be most attractive. Strong viewpoint, strong expression? That kinda stuff?

That should help quite a bit. You're being dominant in a "you can't control me emotionally" way. Your value will go up. Talks are fine if they're about financial matters or whatever, but as soon as you can see her arming up and getting emotional, you have to stop talking and start paying attention.

 

[Sandow]

Once it starts going downhill, and she starts losing attraction, it's usually over. Sorry to be so grim about that but that is usually the truth. There is little you can do to rescue this relationship. That is just the nature of relationships to end.

However, the only thing that I have ever done ( or in this case NOT done) that seemed to work is going no contact. If you give her the fear of losing you (especially everything she has invested in you) she will freak out. I'm not saying this will save your relationship (in my opinion it will be done) but it will give her the "missing" factor and she will start developing attraction for you again. However this is usually only a temporary form of attraction. But hey its something, and you never know...

 

[DonHo]

games?

What can be done WITHOUT games? Nothing. Sounds like you're whipped and letting her in the driver's seat. The only thing you can do is back WAY off. That means be unavailable, don't respond as much, don't contact her, go out with your friends, let her contact you, take up a hobby if you don't have one, don't cave in to her wimpy attempts to spend time with you, stay busy and don't be a pvssy. Any contact with you should only be positive. These are basically the steps to "get your ex back". Do some research online. If you crumble early it will never work. Go read David DeAngelo on attraction. If you think you can salvage your relationship by not doing the above, you're kidding yourself.

 

[ThatMysteriousGuy]

The "no contact" rule is specifically for men who are unable to cut off a relationship that is over without being wishy-washy/AFC about it. It's not about punishing the woman or manipulating her into being more attracted. It's about the MAN lacking the strength to find a middle ground to end the relationship in a way that's beneficial to both parties.

Using no contact in a way to "pull the rug" out from under the feet of a woman's emotional security because things aren't automagically the way the man wants is pure emotional manipulative control and will not make a relationship better. She'll resent it and punish that cruelty severely in the end.

"No contact" in a serious relationship is no different than a man putting his fingers in his ears and saying "nyah nyah, I can't hear you"

"No contact" in a serious relationship is no different than a child not getting his way and holding his breath until he turns blue to "show them".

I really wish that people would understand that "no contact" isn't about getting what you want, it's specifically for men who are too weak to deal with breaking up with women in a rational & useful manner.

 

[hawk29]

Thank you, thatmysteriousguy. I sometimes feel like I'm going crazy when I'm on this site...like all these suggestions about no contact in the middle of a loving relationships (or what could be) are somehow going to make these women come around. Or do anything but preserve the last big of ego left. All no contact does is make them miss you; then you come back and 2 weeks later it's all back to the same thing. No solution, more time wasted. That's why I've been standing in there, trying to read the environment and this girl who yes, I love (and no I don't believe love = whipped. I stand up to her when I have to and when I feel she has pushed to far. And I do have walking power and she knows that because I will say I just need time to think, take the time, and that does effect her.)

I do think you're right though. In addition to being a bit more assertive outside of the 'arguing' I need to stop taking this all so personally. And cut arguing about what's done is done. I have made mistakes; she has; we have. Our communication has revolved around not trying to hurt each other instead of the facts about who we are (we were good friends before all this started so the stakes are high). I know that we're both just trying to establish whether we can be individuals and happy in this; I can't fault her for her feelings and I don't want to manipulate her in any way (as I would prefer to not be divorced in 2 years!). I know I've made mistakes and did not DJ when I needed to; I'm rectifying that now by being less possessive and more independent (I totally got caught up in the romance...and forgot that ALWAYS ends at some point...at least until all the issues of different personalities are sorted out). But the fact is she has leftover feelings from that period. I know those feelings are not intentional. And I know I can only show so much independence until she just feels left (which again, resolves nothing). So.....I have backed way off without distancing. I still engage her in 'good' stuff but if she starts to get upset or sensitive, I just let it go for the time being. I do my own thing, have done well with getting a good life back (I do think that kinda freaked her out). But it may very well be too late. We are going to have a big talk this weekend; we both want it. Not to end it, but to get the stuff out. We've spent months playing happy instead of being happy. I think it was that ambiguity which caused me to pull in.

I just wasn't acting very smart and I guess I'm just mad at myself. I totally let this happen by not keeping our respective individualities intact. Now we're both scrambling to find that. But it may very well be to late. At least for now we may need to go our respective ways, find ourselves again, and see what the future brings. I actually do care way to much to do much else. But no contact? That would be cruel. Weekend trips to remember what you have are one thing. Leaving in the middle of a period where decisions haven't been made and both want to at least hear the other out - no. I would never kill her trust in men or humans like that.

Strength, clarity of want/need, pursuit of those, a good individual life, listening and understanding, and stopping my part in the argument...I agree...these are what I should be doing anyhow, so why not start now.

(Sorry for the length. I'm really trying to figure out how to be a GOOD man here. Not just someone who gets a lot of ass.)

 

[ThatMysteriousGuy]

"But no contact? That would be cruel. Weekend trips to remember what you have are one thing. Leaving in the middle of a period where decisions haven't been made and both want to at least hear the other out - no. I would never kill her trust in men or humans like that. "

Good for you. Waste not, want not, and all that. That's being a real MAN.