Attraction: can it REALLY be built, or does it already have to somewhat be there?

[Entropy4]

OK, this is my last reply because this is getting out of hand, and I think my viewpoint has been distorted quite a bit.

If you look at my first answer way back on the first page, I said this:

the short answer to your question is both. Yes, you build attraction, but factors such as your looks, wealth, status, social circle, etc., can speed up or slow down that attraction process. Sometimes it can slow to the point where you will never be able to get anywhere with the girl no matter what. Other times it speeds up to the point where you can **** her within 20 or 30 minutes of meeting her.

So, to whoever said I must be an idiot because I think a 400 pound guy could pick up a model. No, I don't. I never said that. I'm not discounting these things. I'm not saying ALL you need is techniques or tactics or whatever to get with a women.

But you DO need them. I have had tons of students who are good-looking, successful, smart, kind, and they have no idea how to get a girl. They get girls approaching them and looking at them and they blow it -- EVERY time. What pissed me off so much about this thread is that there are newbies who have their lifestyle and look put together, but they don't know how to interact with women well. What they NEED is to be shoved into set after set to learn how to take advantage of the attraction they already have. This is the majority of the guys I work with.

What I've been responding to is the idea that whatever these guys say doesn't matter because the girl already made her choice "in the first five seconds". Bull****. These girls DID make their choice. They liked these guys. And then 30 minutes later, they've blown it. What does that tell you? What do you think they need to work on, looking "cooler"?

In conclusion:
- In building attraction, I don't discount lifestyle or how you present yourself, and how those relate to attraction. Again, see post #1 above.
- But don't tell me that conversational tools and tactics don't matter, because I've seen way too many guys blow it AFTER the girl has been interested in talking to them. I have also seen countless of examples of guys getting a girl after she showed NO initial interest in him.
- That's why I think guys who are starting out need to do as many approaches as possible -- to develop these conversation skills. Oh, and you DON'T have to wait for eye contact from a girl to open her successfully. That's bull****.
- RealSupreme: I don't really care about your "success" and am amused by how fervent you are to prove it. It seems you've been successful with women. Whatever, that's cool, I'm not here to get into an internet **** race. I'll take that at face value and believe you. Regardless, I disagree with what you say. I don't want to create a retarded "guru" feud here -- I think all of sosuave.com would appreciate if we spare them. And again, I'd like to remind you, you don't know my company or what we do/have done, so you don't have much room to talk. You can hypothesize all you want, but you're just making yourself look defensive and reactive in the process. If you must know, the asian I'm talking about works for Asian Playboy -- but that probably doesn't mean much to you. If you reply from now on, maybe you should spend some time answering my arguments and points, rather and going on for two pages on how lame you THINK I may be, based off a blog and a picture or two.

 

[ketostix]

OK, this is my last reply because this is getting out of hand, and I think my viewpoint has been distorted quite a bit.

If you look at my first answer way back on the first page, I said this:



So, to whoever said I must be an idiot because I think a 400 pound guy could pick up a model. No, I don't. I never said that. I'm not discounting these things. I'm not saying ALL you need is techniques or tactics or whatever to get with a women.

But you DO need them. I have had tons of students who are good-looking, successful, smart, kind, and they have no idea how to get a girl. They get girls approaching them and looking at them and they blow it -- EVERY time. What pissed me off so much about this thread is that there are newbies who have their lifestyle and look put together, but they don't know how to interact with women well. What they NEED is to be shoved into set after set to learn how to take advantage of the attraction they already have. This is the majority of the guys I work with.

What I've been responding to is the idea that whatever these guys say doesn't matter because the girl already made her choice "in the first five seconds". Bull****. These girls DID make their choice. They liked these guys. And then 30 minutes later, they've blown it. What does that tell you? What do you think they need to work on, looking "cooler"?

In conclusion:
- In building attraction, I don't discount lifestyle or how you present yourself, and how those relate to attraction. Again, see post #1 above.
- But don't tell me that conversational tools and tactics don't matter, because I've seen way too many guys blow it AFTER the girl has been interested in talking to them. I have also seen countless of examples of guys getting a girl after she showed NO initial interest in him.
- That's why I think guys who are starting out need to do as many approaches as possible -- to develop these conversation skills. Oh, and you DON'T have to wait for eye contact from a girl to open her successfully. That's bull****.
- RealSupreme: I don't really care about your "success" and am amused by how fervent you are to prove it. It seems you've been successful with women. Whatever, that's cool, I'm not here to get into an internet **** race. I'll take that at face value and believe you. Regardless, I disagree with what you say. I don't want to create a retarded "guru" feud here -- I think all of sosuave.com would appreciate if we spare them. And again, I'd like to remind you, you don't know my company or what we do/have done, so you don't have much room to talk. You can hypothesize all you want, but you're just making yourself look defensive and reactive in the process. If you must know, the asian I'm talking about works for Asian Playboy -- but that probably doesn't mean much to you. If you reply from now on, maybe you should spend some time answering my arguments and points, rather and going on for two pages on how lame you THINK I may be, based off a blog and a picture or two.

OK but I think you are changing your argument. No one said, well at least I never said you didn't need tactics or verbal skills to amplify or capitalize on attraction. What I said is that won't create attraction that isn't already there from the start. See a female is observing you and sizing you up before you or she approaches. The exception would be if for whatever reason the woman just didn't notice you because it's a crowded bar. Another exception would be she would be attracted to you but when she observed you it looked like you had no SP or something like that, but when you approach your buddies come out of no where and SP. I wouldn't consider this an exception though really because attraction was there but just not everything needed to create interest.

 

[Mavrick]

Yes, attraction can be built, but it doesn't start with a good line or anything like that. You have to change yourself into the man that women desire and then go do the attraction.

Women love a good personality, decisiveness, and leadership. They like a strong psyche as opposed to a good physique, but it does help. You can dress like a dork, but if you are the man, you can get the girl. Ever heard the saying "The man makes the clothes"? That's what this is basically about. You have to be intriguing.

I've seen some of the ugliest and fattest guys with the hottest women.

 

[DonGorgon]

Instant attraction can occur randomly, but for it to evolve into deep long term attraction and dedication requires time and interaction.

Women can pretend / decide to be attracted to you for your money etc. but if a natural chemistry does not for such a relationship will not have trust and dedication from her side.

 

[Entropy4]

OK but I think you are changing your argument. No one said, well at least I never said you didn't need tactics or verbal skills to amplify or capitalize on attraction. What I said is that won't create attraction that isn't already there from the start. See a female is observing you and sizing you up before you or she approaches. The exception would be if for whatever reason the woman just didn't notice you because it's a crowded bar. Another exception would be she would be attracted to you but when she observed you it looked like you had no SP or something like that, but when you approach your buddies come out of no where and SP. I wouldn't consider this an exception though really because attraction was there but just not everything needed to create interest.

It seems like you and I are describing the same thing with different definitions of attraction. Again, refer to my post WAY before all this nonsense started. The posts that set me off were the ones saying that you should wait for attraction BEFORE you approach. I don't know if that was you.

 

[ketostix]

The posts that set me off were the ones saying that you should wait for attraction BEFORE you approach. I don't know if that was you.

That wasn't me. In fact I said that not every girl that's interested in you will necessarily let you know. I also said that even if you see a female showing signs of attraction you still have to amplify attraction and capitalize on it. I'm just saying you can't create attraction with words alone
when when a woman is less than neutral or not attracted in the first place. Words aren't what causes attraction.

 

[DJVladdy]

no wutang, not end of story. You're a whiny little bytch, who's trying to drag OTHERS down to your pathetic self-hating level. Now THAT'S end of story.

 

[Entropy4]

no wutang, not end of story. You're a whiny little bytch, who's trying to drag OTHERS down to your pathetic self-hating level. Now THAT'S end of story.

Seconded.

 

[schttrj]

OK but I think you are changing your argument. No one said, well at least I never said you didn't need tactics or verbal skills to amplify or capitalize on attraction. What I said is that won't create attraction that isn't already there from the start. See a female is observing you and sizing you up before you or she approaches. The exception would be if for whatever reason the woman just didn't notice you because it's a crowded bar. Another exception would be she would be attracted to you but when she observed you it looked like you had no SP or something like that, but when you approach your buddies come out of no where and SP. I wouldn't consider this an exception though really because attraction was there but just not everything needed to create interest.

well, so the result of all this debate is:

1) when a girl notices you, attraction has got to be there instantly if u want to take it further with your game.

2) if she hasnt noticed u yet, u can still make a cold approach and see if u can build up the attraction if she is open and such.

i dont know who changed the course of the argument but ---> entropy, if i m right, u said attraction can be built from the SCRATCH and even built when a girl says to you,"u made a very bad first impression" and such. but u r forgetting one thing, to all of u guys, HE MADE AN IMPRESSION EVEN IF IT IS BAD. thats what matters.

 

[Being_the_Don]

I agree also. It is so unfortunate that smart marketers have fool so many with those claims of I was a short fat balding guy and now I date models.

Yeah they date em now cause they got doe in their pockets making money off the suckers on the internet.

I have listened to a audio program about internet marketing. They recommended this field because it was target rich. That means full of pleebs with money in their hands and ready to buy. Now the people they are recommending this field too have nothing to do with seduction.

Google seduction and you will get a ton of ads all mimicing each other.

Then you hear the famed attraction isn't a choice. What you didn't hear was that yeah it can be that way due to ancient programming with women to seek out the dominant males within a environment. Which has nothing to do with how it is being used.

I have interviewed tons of women on this subject which is why I push my way of doing the dating game.

Here is the ultimate secret that the guru's don't want you to know.

"Women know within 5 seconds of meeting you if they will have sex with you or not."

That's true, but women are often much more subtle at this, so often times you probably WON'T catch them looking at you.

And once that initial impression is made you can rarely get back lost ground if your in the not catagory.

What the guru's also don't want you to know is:

"Women do the choosing"

This is true but only to an extent. Men also do the choosing. Think of how many women might be attracted to you but whom you would not even give the time of day. YOU have chosen not to be with them.

I am fortunate that I was schooled in this by masters of the game before I came accross it's opposite belief.

A lot of guys who have insecure complexes running around like to run around yelling that women are stupid and this and that.

Sorry to wake you up but that isn't so. Women are actually very intelligent and sensitive. They have this inner radar that the guru's don't want you to know about.

They get a gut feeling for a person.


They can smell fear on a man at 50 paces practically.

I know someone is gonna disagree with my almost 30 years at this games worth of experience and learning. That is ok. I don't really care.

For those of you still reading, I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news but if women are not feeling you period, there is NO way you can come back from that.

They may talk to you if they are not feeling any kind of sexual vibe for you but that only puts you in friend zone.

By now there is someone hoping to get out of friendzone here reading desperately. Sorry again but that rarely happens. When it does the girl feels guilty and makes the guy promise not to mention it or they have gotten drunk and did something stupid more often than not.

So women must feel some level of attraction for you for her even to go out with you. The secret is that this happens within seconds of meeting you if not before.

I know you guys have been barraged with stuff from the PUA community that yells at you to just keep trying and sarge harder and do a boyfriend destroyer and on and on and on.

What do those guys do?

Read what one PUA instructor in Europe wrote to me the other day:



Who does he hang out with:



Notice he says they are successful. Not very successful. But not at what they are preaching. But good old fashioned game methods.

Women will look at men they are interested in. You just have to catch em at it.

What do you do if they are not giving up eye contact?

That means you got a real problem in your game that needs to be addressed. You won't find it in running up in her face yelling stories at her while she is rolling her eyes.

You will find it either in your inner or outter game.

Outter as in how you look. If you show up in a printed nerdy teeshirt and skinny jeans and flat stomper tennis shoes on...and you start running around trying to be sociable up in hotties faces you might just get spit on like someone on here had happen.

This is true, appearance matters a lot. How you carry yourself including looks, mannerisms, voice, etc. What it all boils down to is confidence, women tend to be attracted to men who won't fold under pressure. It's innate and traces its origins back to mate selection where women selected men who could protect them and deal with hardships.

How would you like for her to show up in run down tennis shoes and a old dirty skirt...no make up and bad hair?

It's the same for women.

People with low standards will settle for low standards.

Look like a winner and they will start noticing you.

Responses in bold. BTW, someone here was actually spit on?

 

[Being_the_Don]

Entropy, I pretty much agree with everything you said (except what contradicted my previous point)

Let me play semantics here. What does "somewhat there" mean?

I thought about that long and hard. You see, this girl that I really liked in high school who I never got to hook up with told me (after the fact) that she thought I was a "dream boat." She just wouldn't date me because I was a dweeb, and would ruin her "popular" image. In spite of that, we're still on speaking terms.

See, I thought that she blew me out because she didn't have ANY attraction for me. The fact of the matter is, she was attracted but didn't want to date me because I had low social value. Bless her soul, she's a freakin high school girl dating all the popular jocks. She just didn't want to go through the grief of her friends saying "why are you that dweeb's girlfriend?"

Someone like that is of low value herself if all she cares about is what others think of her.

Entropy, I agree with you that action has to be taken to get a girl. Anyone who doesn't believe that is a dumbfuck, hell, EVERYONE here knows that. However, I have this belief that raw physical attraction comes from how someone looks, and as long as everything works out socially, BAM, you have a hookup.

It's also possible to be with someone who is NOT attracted to you PHYSICALLY. What these women want is something else like security, money or in the case of some people a GREEN CARD. (I just had to add that one. )

Responses in bold.

 

[Rebound Material]

WOW...im reading all these responses and yea...I love you guys!:rockon:

 

[AlekNovy]

Doesn't matter

It's fun to was philosophical on it.

But it's all about how it relates to action.

If you know that a certain number of women respond to you, then you know you on average need to talk to a certain number of women to have it click with one.

If your average is improving when you change certain factors, you're changing what you control... whether you call it "creating attraction", or "being attractive (inner game).

Although i believe all of that stuff that people call "creating attraction" is just "logistics", i.e. creating and giving her the opportunity and excuse she needs to get funky with ya.