Attraction and friendship

[becker]

I was just thinking about these girls who I have as friends, and basically, what it seems like is that girls generally won't be friends with a guy that they don't find attractive, and the same goes vice versa. By "friends", I mean hanging out at least away from whatever social setting that you might be forced to see each other in (school, work, etc). If she calls you and wants to do something, then she probably finds you at least attractive enough to be a potential BF, even if she doesn't act on it right away.

What happens is that I may not find a girl "friend" as attractive as she may find me, which means that she'll probably ask me to do stuff more than I'll ask her. Then, another girl who I find attractive may not find me as attractive, so I'll probably be asking her to do stuff more than she asks me. I think this is sort of like the ladder theory, now that I think of it.

I guess the point is, maybe that girl "friend" of yours finds you attractive so she's hanging with you, so don't just give up because you feel like you might be in the LJBF zone. Things may get more involved but only over time. I was never a big believer in that crap anyways, because I've had more girls want to be more than friends when it was clearly an LJBF situation from both ends.

 

[usdaprime]

I was just thinking about these girls who I have as friends, and basically, what it seems like is that girls generally won't be friends with a guy that they don't find attractive, and the same goes vice versa. By "friends", I mean hanging out at least away from whatever social setting that you might be forced to see each other in (school, work, etc). If she calls you and wants to do something, then she probably finds you at least attractive enough to be a potential BF, even if she doesn't act on it right away.

Interesting is this a fact? I guess I better get my game on with some of my female friends.

 

[E-Z Rider]

This is very true.

While you shouldn't set out to make a girl you're attracted to your friend (this is THE primary AFC mistake), you also shouldn't count them out.

When I have a girl "friend"...I really don't hang out with them much at all. Not one on one at least. I usually don't care, and I'd have more fun hanging out with the guys anyways. I would hang out with her in a group or if she initiates it, but I'd never initiate it. And I NEVER call just to talk. I NEVER become an emotional tampon.

So, just as there is a misconception here amongst many about jerk vs. nice guy, there is also one about the friend zone. What makes the "friend zone" is an AFC perspective, check it out, it's not that these chicks happen to be their friends, it's that they

1) Find a girl attractive and start to worship her, become obsessed with her- and only her- and put her on a pedestal,

2) They actively try to make her their "friend" and not a "girlfriend" with hopes that being friends first will eventually make her their girlfriend, and

3) They talk to her too much, initiate too many things, and become her emotional tampon.

You can be friends with a girl without doing those things...and in THAT case, the chick really is just as much a potential candidate as any other.

Plus if you're an LTR guy, having a chick who you already know and who already knows you can be very nice situation.

So guys, don't count out your female friends. And don't avoid making female friends. Just DON'T do the AFC bullsh!t with them. And if you decide to make a move on a friend chick, don't do it in such a way that creates this huge wierd vibe if she turns you down. Just take it cooly.

Moreover, your female friends should mostly be more along the lines of aquantainces than real 'friends'. Most chicks make sucky real friends, but are nice as aquantainces. It's cool to have close female friends, but those are the ones less likely for you to hook up with.

Hope this makes sense, and helps- -E-Z

 

[Man2000]

I think you might be right...

I agree with this, as did someone else in a former post with a different subject heading.

I believe it's a very harsh test. A test to see if you are a man. A man for her or not.

The woman sees something about you she likes. So, she keeps you around. To pass the test, you have to prove yourself, by making a real move on her, when she is "ready". You'll see signs of her readiness, because you'll know her so well, that there will be a suddle change in her.

Failing, means you are her emotional tampon, and a chump in her eyes.

If I'm reading the DJ advice correct, you really shouldn't put yourself through such a risky situation. It's degrading to involve yourself in such a test. And, it takes away time from other women who might have more interest in you.

In the past, I had female friends, and when I look back, I was using these DJ techniques on these friends with out even knowing it. Slowly letting them fall in love with me. Some of these women would express deep emotion for me in suddle ways.

In conclusion, you can make a female friend into something more, over time. But, you have to make the choice if you want to be put through such an emotional wringer.

I've got a great memory, and I can remember the reactions, and behaviors of my female friends of the past. And, most of them started to show high interest after a long period of hanging out, and long talks. If they have a boyfriend, their interest in me sky rocketed when they seemed to be having doubts about their relationships.

But, I would suddenly lose interest when they got needy. And, it would always result in them acting slightly wierd, and even flustered. I believe they were wondering why the chump is all of a sudden not interested. They were thinking, WTF???

Also, I would feel used, because I was the emotional support, and some other guy was getting the sex. So, in essence, female friends aren't being fair with thier boyfriends, or their male friends (yes, I know it's not about being fair-"The post that changed my ways").

And, "I" wasn't being fair, because I should have been a man, and made the choice for her.

Also, they seemed to hate me, because they felt rejected by me. Because I wouldn't make moves on them. They gave me such perfect opportunities for it too. I just didn't want to be involved in a cheat.

I try not to be friends with women, but, it's hard. I usually am attracted to them pyhsically, and then I connect with them emotionally. I'm very easy to be friends with. So, in the last few years, I've made no effort, or very little effort when a woman wants to be my friend. This only results in them wanting to see me more!!! It's a catch 22.

Men and women can't really be friends. Only in very specific situations, and if you both are willing to hold back on the attraction part. Because the attraction can grow in one or both of you.

Yes, I think you can wait, and help a female friend realize you are the man for her. Especially, if you behave like a DJ. The question is: Are you willing to wait???

Another question: If your friend has a boyfriend/husband, do you think this is morally right? (I know some of you don't care about morals, and I don't judge you for that-I am bound by mine for my own reasons)

Mind you, this is coming from a long time AFC. Just sharing my experiences.

 

[516]

As someone with several female friends, I am going to agree with basically all of Becker's original post.

Yes, I think you can wait, and help a female friend realize you are the man for her. Especially, if you behave like a DJ. The question is: Are you willing to wait???

Man2000-- This is basically what I have been doing w/ one of my female friends/aquaintances. I dont see her or talk to her all that much, but we have alot of fun when we see or talk to eachother. In between, I am dating several other women.

 

[CLOONEY]

For all you guys who have a female "friend" and you wanna get some action. I wouldnt hold my breath, you are probably just that, a FRIEND. If she finds you physically attractive something COULD happen if you work your magic right, if she doesnt find you physically attractive, you are stuck! You might get lucky one time and get a kiss when she is drunk, haha, but other than that you are just her friend, use her for social proof, but dont expect to go anywhere with her.

 

[becker]

I'm glad to hear that I'm not alone on this. From my experience, this will work out great if you both happen to find each other attractive. Then you have a good chance to move beyond the friend thing.

The bottom line is that a girl who wants to be around you but acts as though you are a friend (especially one with a BF who does this) most likely finds you attractive, otherwise she probably wouldn't make any extra effort to be around you. I have some girl "friends" who I can hang with if I want, but I pretty much never call up because I don't quite find them that attractive. I'm sure most people are that way when it comes to friends of the opposite sex.

It's sort of the opposite with friends of the same sex. You never make friends based on how attracted you are to them. It's a double standard, but not totally unreasonable since 2 people of the opposite sex always have potential to be together whereas it's totally different with people of the same sex (unless you're gay of course).

 

[Man2000]

516,

I hope things work out. You seem to understand what becker, e-z rider, and myself are saying.

Clooney,

I hear what you are saying, and that's why I don't give much time to female friends. It's not worth it. I'd rather be more direct with women if I find them attractive, or just not even bother with them.

But, when you say, "don't expect to go anywhere with her", it has backfired on me. I mean, I used to have very close female friends in my past, and purposly did not expect anything. One night, a friend of mine wanted me to get high with her at her house late at night. She then proceded to tell me how much she loved me, and that she left her boyfriend. (I guess this is like your drunk scenario?) She told me the exact minute she fell for me, and that she wished I would have liked her back. I told her that I was attracted to her, but, that I thought we were supposed to be friends. And, that I didn't think I had a chance, since she had a boyfriend. She said with smirk, "Well, your stupid." I now realize that I was very stupid!

We stopped talking after that night, and when I saw her a few months later, she seemed angry and disappointed in me.

I guess, if want to try making a friend into a girlfriend, you have to be prepared for the worst. Make the move when it's time, and if she shoots you down, just accept it.