Attention wh*res: Pardon me, but I need to let loose for a sec.

jophil28

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edger said:
Colussus, Jophil, "waving" chix over can be effective. I've even read this somewhere in the community, not sure if it was in the "featured articles" section of this site or from David DeAngelo.
Just because "someone" in the PUA community said so does not make it an effective strategy. IT did not work for you did it ? Drop it. IT is a low grade tactic which does not send any worthwhile messages to her about you. YOu should have slowly walked onto the dance floor and danced with her with solid eye contact. Now THAT shows real confidence.

I am wondering why you frequently defend these elements of your "game" when they seem to fail so often.
The proof (or not ) is in the pudding, Edger.
 

edger

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jophil28 said:
Just because "someone" in the PUA community said so does not make it an effective strategy.
Of course. Anyway, I've used it as a tactic way before I found the community..it has worked for me before.
 

backbreaker

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"However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results"

Winston Churchill
 

edger

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backbreaker said:
"However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results"

Winston Churchill
I agree. Always look at the results. If what you're doing is producing no results, then it obviously isn't an effective approach, or you're just not approaching it right.

This is only the second time I've "waved" a chick over, from what I can remember at the moment.
 

edger

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There was also another hottie from that night that was vibing me pretty hardcore, but she was with 2 guys, and I like I've said, I don't approach women when they're with other guys, unless she comes up to me. They ALWAYS have to be with guys when they go out, its ridiculous. Like I've said, this is also a big contributing factor why it's been a federal project snagging and sexing an attractive woman with regularity.
 

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I wanted to share a little insight about "gestures"...

Waving is a form of non-verbal communication, but many of the same rules apply to gestures as they do to actually speaking.

We say, "ask a woman a question, then shut up and wait for the answer", right? Well, waving translates to: "come on over here". If you smile, it translates to "Hey! Come over here!" But, if you do it with a sexy-type grin, it translates to "Hey, cutie! You should be over here getting your ear massaged by my voice." There's very subtle things that can change the whole meaning of a gesture.

And, just as you would "shut up and wait for an answer", you wave, then give her some time to "answer". You don't give her any more body language to read, you direct your attention elsewhere for a while. If she doesn't show up, she didn't "answer" (one could go so far as to call it a non-verbal sh¡t-test).

In this situation, I've had a lot of luck with non-verbal communications: you can call them on their poor behavior. You look at them with a "duh? are you retarded?" look, then wave them over again.

See, gestures and body language are VERY MUCH like a conversation. She "listens" to what you "say", and should respond. Based on the response, you reply. Did she shake her head "no" in response to the wave? No? Then she was being rude and "ignoring" you "speaking". So, you bust on her for being rude.

Oh, and it helps greatly to actually "speak in your head" while you are making gestures. Your facial expressions will match the gestures better because you will be imagining saying it. Sometimes, you'll actually end up mouthing the words, which helps out immensely. If you mouth enough words, and the chick doesn't understand, it is natural to come over for clarification. I've had entire conversations with chicks without saying a word. In the case of girly on the dance floor, I could also imagine myself using a finger to push my nose up and tilt my head back while issuing the challenge: "too stuck up??"

I think it must be said, that, letting it go with the wave is like saying "hi" after approaching a woman ...and not saying anything else. You have to follow up with more. Of course, the three-second rule applies, also. Too many stares makes the situation awkward, whereas not enough "foreplay" is just as ineffective.

Women are experts at unspoken communications. If you show some mastery, they will be impressed, trust me on this. Locking eyes and being confident enough to "talk" to someone, regardless of who is watching, works their emotions in many ways.

I tend bar, by the way. "Two more?" "Another round?" "Come here and talk in my ear" "$3.50" "NO." "Sit down." "You're done." "Hey there, cutie." "Want to look at my butt?" "Turn around and let me look at your butt first." "This is yours." "You still need to pay." "I see you." "Hold on a second."

You can say a buh-zillion things with only gestures. And, if you are nervous or less-than-confident, it will come across. If you wave someone over and are lame about it, you might be mistaken as waving off a fart.

:nervous:

If you catch and hold a woman's attention with your gestures, and you manage to have an interaction, eventually she'll feel comfortable. And, since she's having fun with the "sign language", at some point she'll wonder how much fun you'd be to actually TALK to.

Guys should really feel comfortable doing this; you are completely unaccountable and can "say" anything because, if she comes over, you can always joke that she's imagining things or that she misunderstood. :)
 

STR8UP

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edger said:
They ALWAYS have to be with guys when they go out, its ridiculous. Like I've said, this is also a big contributing factor why it's been a federal project snagging and sexing an attractive woman with regularity.
When I go out there are women in my group more often than not. Don't let that hinder you. You can tell if a woman is "with" someone or not by the body language. And even then it's hard to tell sometimes. The AW I know....when we go out people assume we are together just because of the way we interact with each other, but nothing could be further from the truth. If she gave some dude her number it's no sweat off my back.

Point is, don't assume that a woman who is out with men is attached to any of them. Especially if it's a group thing.
 

thirdtimescharm

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Just another viewpoint...those of you who are labeling women as "Attention wh*res," in effect, passing judgment on another person's actions, without really knowing anything about them, or why they might be reacting a certain way to some stimulus, might be better served in looking at themselves and asking "Why does this bother me?"
 

edger

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STR8UP said:
When I go out there are women in my group more often than not. Don't let that hinder you. You can tell if a woman is "with" someone or not by the body language. And even then it's hard to tell sometimes. The AW I know....when we go out people assume we are together just because of the way we interact with each other, but nothing could be further from the truth. If she gave some dude her number it's no sweat off my back.

Point is, don't assume that a woman who is out with men is attached to any of them. Especially if it's a group thing.
Yes, sometimes you can tell if a guy and a girl are involved with each other either as f*ck buddies or as boyfriend/girlfriend. The thing is, even if they're not and they're just platonic friends(not sexually involved with each other at all)I still don't feel right talking to a woman. It feels weird, I feel funny. I'd rather do it where the guy isn't in my presence. Plus, also, I don't like to do it because of the risk of a possible confrontation. You never know with some of these guys. Sometimes they get jealous or can go into protective mode with these women.

Str8up, your situation is such proof that even if a woman has no sexual attraction to a guy, she'll still act like you two are f*cking. For example: like grinding, putting her arms around you, getting close to you, etc. Women are such c*ck-teases, it's f*cked up. I don't know why you spend time with this woman. She's a piece of sh*t, because if she had any consideration for you or respect for you, she wouldn't torture and c*ck-tease you.
 

thissucks003

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edger said:
Yes, sometimes you can tell if a guy and a girl are involved with each other either as f*ck buddies or as boyfriend/girlfriend. The thing is, even if they're not and they're just platonic friends(not sexually involved with each other at all)I still don't feel right talking to a woman. It feels weird, I feel funny. I'd rather do it where the guy isn't in my presence. Plus, also, I don't like to do it because of the risk of a possible confrontation. You never know with some of these guys. Sometimes they get jealous or can go into protective mode with these women.

Str8up, your situation is such proof that even if a woman has no sexual attraction to a guy, she'll still act like you two are f*cking. For example: like grinding, putting her arms around you, getting close to you, etc. Women are such c*ck-teases, it's f*cked up. I don't know why you spend time with this woman. She's a piece of sh*t, because if she had any consideration for you or respect for you, she wouldn't torture and c*ck-tease you.
Edger,

It seems all of your frustration and mistakes at pickup are outside of yourself. The truth is that all of this could be cured by yourself.

I used to make make excuses of why I didn't approach, make a move, make a commitment, etc... The end result was many years of frustration and wasted time and money. The only thing that will help you cure your approach anxiety is to approach. If this is too difficult, then have a wingman to help you out. If this is too unnerving, then take a bootcamp. I did myself and it help me overcome most of my approach fears.

Good Luck
 

STR8UP

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edger said:
Yes, sometimes you can tell if a guy and a girl are involved with each other either as f*ck buddies or as boyfriend/girlfriend. The thing is, even if they're not and they're just platonic friends(not sexually involved with each other at all)I still don't feel right talking to a woman. It feels weird, I feel funny. I'd rather do it where the guy isn't in my presence. Plus, also, I don't like to do it because of the risk of a possible confrontation. You never know with some of these guys. Sometimes they get jealous or can go into protective mode with these women.
Agreed. However, if you are the social type you can work your way in by opening the guy, then you have "social proof".

Str8up, your situation is such proof that even if a woman has no sexual attraction to a guy, she'll still act like you two are f*cking. For example: like grinding, putting her arms around you, getting close to you, etc. Women are such c*ck-teases, it's f*cked up. I don't know why you spend time with this woman. She's a piece of sh*t, because if she had any consideration for you or respect for you, she wouldn't torture and c*ck-tease you.
I didn't way there was no sexual attraction. This particular woman recently came straight out and told me that we need to have a few drinks and do the deed. If anything I am the one who has kept this from escalating. She even makes comments about how I never try to get in her pants, haha

I know the type of woman you are talking about though. The thing is, these women only have as much power over you as you allow them. you getting upset about the way they are....you are handing it to them on a silver platter.

You can allow AW's into your life, you just can't get sucked into their vortex. The second you do, it's time to cut them out of your life.
 

edger

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STR8UP said:
you getting upset about the way they are....you are handing it to them on a silver platter.
No, you are handing it over to them on a silver plate if you SHOW them you're getting upset over it. It's going to piss every guy off when he comes across a c*ck-tease like this. The key is, you need to not let them see that it pisses you off.

And also, your attention wh*re friend, by a text-book definition of how a woman is as we know it here on SoSuave, then she should've become turned off by you by now because you haven't made a move on her. I'm surprised you haven't turned her off, that's interesting...because we all know that when we don't make a move on a woman, that she see's us as shy, inexperienced, or as less of a man - a weakness.
 

edger

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thissucks003 said:
Edger,

It seems all of your frustration and mistakes at pickup are outside of yourself. The truth is that all of this could be cured by yourself.

I used to make make excuses of why I didn't approach, make a move, make a commitment, etc... The end result was many years of frustration and wasted time and money. The only thing that will help you cure your approach anxiety is to approach. If this is too difficult, then have a wingman to help you out. If this is too unnerving, then take a bootcamp. I did myself and it help me overcome most of my approach fears.

Good Luck
What makes you think I have approach anxiety? Lol. Where you getting this? All I'm saying, is that, I don't approach women when they're out with guys, and also when it's not the right moment as with this chick from over the weekend. Remember I said she was "dancing" while vibing me? It would've been stupid to have approached her while she was dancing because then I would've had to have started dancing with her, and I wasn't feeling the music. Plus, it's also not a right time to approach a chick when she's dancing, unless of course you plan on dancing with her. I have no problem approaching women..once I get that vibe, I'm all over it. Once in a while, I'll cold-approach too.
 

madslackin

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edger said:
All I'm saying, is that, I don't approach women when they're out with guys, and also when it's not the right moment as with this chick from over the weekend. Remember I said she was "dancing" while vibing me? It would've been stupid to have approached her while she was dancing because then I would've had to have started dancing with her, and I wasn't feeling the music. Plus, it's also not a right time to approach a chick when she's dancing, unless of course you plan on dancing with her. I have no problem approaching women..once I get that vibe, I'm all over it. Once in a while, I'll cold-approach too.
edger, what is your point?
 

STR8UP

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This is where you are missing the point.

I don't need to cut my AW friend out of my life, because she has no power to sway me one way or the other. That's what I am talking about. This type of woman is only dangerous if you let them be dangerous. She's an AW in every sense of the word, but it DOESN'T piss me off. That's what I am getting at.

I have known her for a good 8 years, and have not had sex with her, but that doesn't bother me. I could take it or leave it. I am not attracted to her for a relationship, and although she is physically attractive, she's a year or so older than I am which basically rules out any potential anyway, so I have no emotional attachment to her. This means that even if she were to dig into her AW bag of tricks to try to use them on me, they wouldn't work.

edger said:
And also, your attention wh*re friend, by a text-book definition of how a woman is as we know it here on SoSuave, then she should've become turned off by you by now because you haven't made a move on her. I'm surprised you haven't turned her off, that's interesting...because we all know that when we don't make a move on a woman, that she see's us as shy, inexperienced, or as less of a man - a weakness.
How do I explain the fact that she is not turned off by me?

It might have to do with the fact that we lost touch for a few years, then when we did make contact again I was on my way to the top of the food chain, and she saw a different man than she knew when we were back in our late 20's.

The thing is, and you can call this AFC or whatever, but I enjoy the sexual tension that we have without fukking. If she starts grabbing my d!ck when we are out having a couple of drinks, sometimes I will play along, sometimes I tell her to keep her hands to herself. It's a big game to me, and since i don't really care whether or not I fukk her, I think it messes with her head and keeps her interested in the possibility of it happening.
 

thissucks003

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edger said:
What makes you think I have approach anxiety? Lol. Where you getting this? All I'm saying, is that, I don't approach women when they're out with guys, and also when it's not the right moment as with this chick from over the weekend. Remember I said she was "dancing" while vibing me? It would've been stupid to have approached her while she was dancing because then I would've had to have started dancing with her, and I wasn't feeling the music. Plus, it's also not a right time to approach a chick when she's dancing, unless of course you plan on dancing with her. I have no problem approaching women..once I get that vibe, I'm all over it. Once in a while, I'll cold-approach too.
How do I know? I know because I lived it! I used to make every excuse in the book as to why I couldn't talk to a girl. She dancing with friends, she is talking to guys in her group, she is with her mom, etc... Those are all excuses! You can face up to reality head on that you are nervous to approach girls, or you can keep doing what isn't working and live a very frustrating life. I wasted way too many years of my life making excuses. I am only pointing this out so that you don't do the the same mistakes as I did. It is ok to be nervous, everyone is. The successful person acknowledges it, and takes charge of it. Be the successful person!
 

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thissucks003 said:
I wasted way too many years of my life making excuses. I am only pointing this out so that you don't do the the same mistakes as I did. It is ok to be nervous, everyone is. The successful person acknowledges it, and takes charge of it. Be the successful person!
I don't recall if it was Pook or Señor Fingers that wrote about embracing those "butterflies" in your stomach from being nervous and using them to enhance your state. Those feeling are actually good and prove you are living life!

Regardless of whether it applies to edger or not, it's still good stuff!:up:
 

edger

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thissucks003 said:
How do I know? I know because I lived it! I used to make every excuse in the book as to why I couldn't talk to a girl. She dancing with friends, she is talking to guys in her group, she is with her mom, etc... Those are all excuses! You can face up to reality head on that you are nervous to approach girls, or you can keep doing what isn't working and live a very frustrating life. I wasted way too many years of my life making excuses. I am only pointing this out so that you don't do the the same mistakes as I did. It is ok to be nervous, everyone is. The successful person acknowledges it, and takes charge of it. Be the successful person!
Whatever man, if you say I'm nervous, then I'm nervous...whatever line of thought floats your boat. If I was nervous, I'd have no problem telling you so, honestly. I don't wish to hide behind anything and put on a facade. Everything I relay to you guys here is in total honesty. Of course everyone, like you said, gets a little nervous before they strike up a conversation with a hottie, that I will tell you is definitely true with me, BUT it never gets so bad to a point where it halts me from taking action. How can you not understand why I'd be hessitant and not feel comfortable approaching a chick who's with one or more guys? It's an awkward situation. If you like to put yourself in awkward situations like that, then hey, what can I tell ya, more power to ya. If you like to end up with a black eye too, then more power to ya.

How can you also not see how it's a lame idea to approach a woman when she's in the middle of dancing, just to talk to her and not dance? As I said, if you plan to dance with her, then I'd say yeah, most definitely, approach her. But if that's not the case, then you're gonna look like an idiot who's inexperienced and doesn't know what he's doing. Very simple to understand. I don't know why you can't grasp it.
 

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Hey Edger,

All women love attention. So in a way you could classify them all as AWs. But I'll agree that nightclubs are one of the places that attracts the most extreme of the AWs.

Nightclubs are great for checking out hot women, but they're one of the worst places for picking them up.

The best places to meet girls are places where they aren't really expecting to be hit on, and where you can talk to them easily. Places where you won't be the umpteenth guy in the last 30 minutes to hit on them.

For example - grocery store, laundromat, bookstore, coffee shop, beach, museum, cafe, shopping mall, cultural event (anything from Renaissance fair to Hot Rod show).


I think you get the idea. You'll have better luck in casual situations.
 
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