Attention Ho & BPD = Same thing?

betterthandead

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oh and you think MEN can't be ATTENTION HOS themselves or be BIPOLAR?

Read some posts on this site, there's a couple of users who have those personality quirks.
 

PTC

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jophil28 said:
The problems usually begin when YOU move into a mindset of wanting an LTR. They sense that you "want more" from them now... Involvement, commitment, loyalty, exclusivity, respect and regular and spontaneous sex and they are disturbed that you want these things freely given by her as a matter of course. . With a 'healthy" women these aspects flow freely, but with a BPD women these things are TOOLS and OBJECTS of barter that she uses to reward or punish you in accordance with how she feels toward you. She rations you in some weird and arbitrary way what is extremely confusing because it does not resemble previously observed feminine behavior in other womenn.

The inevitable resentments and power struggles then begin and they never end.
Mine did this to me. I had her ring from the previous time we were together. Everything was cool at first but she then started leaving suttle hints about how much she missed her ring and when she was ever going to get it again. I finally told her, in a nice matter, that she was going to have to prove to me that it was really what she wanted. I jst wanted to make sure his time. As soon as I said that she smarted off to me telling me that if thats the way it was going to be then she was not going to have sex with me anymore.
 

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KontrollerX said:
"Is that just my impression, or do you think there's any truth to such a link between looks and BPD?"

The Cluster B Personality Disordered people in general seem to be extremely out of the ordinary in range of attractiveness and we must keep in mind that this is a male oriented forum and as such we tend to only focus on the female Cluster B PD sufferers. The truth is that looks seem to correlate to male and female sufferers alike.

How it goes is this. Females tend to be more often BPD or HPD sufferers and males tend to be either Narcissistic Personality Disordered people or Anti Social Personality Disordered people who were previously known as being a psychopath or sociopath. Anyway its mostly been discovered that more often than not it is the HPD's that tend to look the most stunning out of all four types on average but yeah for these disorders good looks seems to usually be part of the package across the board. Not always but I would say on average for the Cluster B Personality Disordered.

Robert Hare the world expert on sociopaths has called them an interspecies predator and I myself have often thought of these people as being kind of like a venus fly trap or someother pretty plant that attracts an unwitting victim into its clutches so that it may devour them for nourishment.

Perhaps if looks really do correlate to these personality disorders its the result of some kind of evolutionary survival mechanism to attract people to them but in their case its not food sustenance they seek out like a predatory plant but emotional sustenance ie the vampiring of emotions they lack within themselves which they can get momentarily from their victims. The momentary satisfaction and inability to hold onto the stolen emotions creates their desire to go and "feed" again and again.

"Is it possible that BPD is partly triggered by the way people treat a good looking person?"

If you mean could any good looking person out there be turned into a BPD by how they are treated for being so good looking my answer would be a definite no.

These personality disorders are cultivated and created by childhood/infant emotional trauma from the interaction or lack there of with a parent usually the mother or even slight and subtle brain injury in the womb.
In short a normal person cannot be turned into one of these people.
Having been deeply involved with one of these people however you can certainly get psychologically damaged, get PTSD and also pick up many of the BPD's negative traits but with hard work and a good therapist you can reduce all of the pain and mental destruction you've gone through to only a regular emotional wound like say the death of a pet over time. Even with therapy and helping oneself in all the healthy ways possible however it usually takes a solid year or two of that to process all of the pain and injustice of the relationship and recover.

"Is it possible that many potential BPD sufferers avoid they syndrome, as they quickly realize that no one is going to take any crazy crap from some ugly chick?"

Well they all hide their true colors at first in a jekyll and hyde manner whether they are ugly or pretty is irrelevant as they all put on the sweet societal acceptable face to you at first.

It is only after you are hooked that the dark true side of their personality emerges to suck the emotional life force right out of you. Its done in a very subtle and gradual way like a frog slowly being boiled alive that doesn't know it is in danger because of how gradual the process of heating and boiling was.

Anyway to conclude and directly answer your question a BPD cannot avoid their condition as like you and I with our personalitys BPD is a personality that is theirs so its unfortunately not something they can be cured of just like we cannot be cured of our natural personalitys. The most they can hope for is to manage the disorder and recover from its horribly negative traits the best they can and the disorder is so resistant to change I think being in the axis II category for this reason not all of them can hope to improve much. Its sadly a luck based recovery even for those who genuinely come to want to be helped. Which means some get better and some just can't. Its sad.

Anyway I just want to give out another public service announcement for any AFC's out there that might be reading this post and want to give it a try and get with one of these women and think they'll be the one to "save her" where jophil, myself, persistant exaction and everyone else failed...

And that announcement is you will end up with so much emotional trauma, pain, and missplaced guilt over it you may seriously consider taking your life (many have) at the end of the experience because she will screw you over so badly.

A movie thats ending sums up the emotional pain I think myself and others whose stories I've read have gone through is the ending of the movie Godfather III where Michael Corleone's daughter has just been shot and killed.

Watch how he reacts and cries out. Thats how you will feel inside exactly and there will be no one in public life who understands what you are going through.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgYnp8bsX-Q

Only us and support forums. Thats all you can hope for from society. A therapists chair and online forums. No one in real life will understand your pain and be able to empathize with you in the proper context because they will view your pain like the pain at the end of a normal relationship but it will be far worse of a pain so without further ado here is the ending to Godfather III if you haven't watched the movie before or need a refresher course. It might seem silly but I am deadly serious. Consider the pain that is conveyed at the ending. That is the pain that will be in your future should you not heed our warning and progress with a Cluster B Personality Disordered human being.
Good post KontrollerX. This chick had me feeling like this. For two months i felt like the world had ended. Its a feeling hard to explain but it took everything i had just to get thru each day,...sometimes minutes. Some nights I just wanted to get in my car and run it into a tree. But I just knew that if i just kept going it would get better. All i could think about was my little girl to help me thru it. I would never wish that feeling onto anybody. The worst thing about it for me was that I was feeling all this pain and she didn't give a sh!t. How can you tell somebpdy you love them one minute and not care whether they live or die the next. But as my counsler told me, their pain comes later when they've seen that your moving on and getting your life back.
 

jophil28

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Danger said:
Jophil and other BPD experts....

Is there any way to properly train a BPD woman? It sounds like the answer is a "chorus of no's".

I also once dated a woman that exhibited some of these traits but not all. Are there degrees of BPD?
One of the ways that you can judge whether you are in a relationship with a Cluster B psycho is to take her history. If she reports a cycle of troubled and broken relationships then she is NOT a good candidate for one with you . Just let her talk about her past - and sound symapthetic when she prattles on with the crud about "I was a perfect wife and he was a loser" ..Listen closely and if you hear a PATTERN of wreckage then dump her aSS. You are being drawn towards joining her in her next train wreck..

Wrecking relationships is what she does - it is all about HER !
 

KontrollerX

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Yes there are degrees of BPD's but the main thing with it is the fear of abandonment which you can never ease no matter what you do.

This fear is why they sabotage their relationships.

They sabotage their relationships because they cannot take the pain of another loss like how they viewed their parents to of abandoned them as a child so they do a pre-emptive strike against you by ending the relationship or cheating on you and leaving you when you get too emotionally close to them.

This is why they most often stay with the men who for the longest periods of time are able to keep their distance from the BPD but even then the BPD just keeps getting crazier and crazier and trying ever harder to mindgame the guy who is being distant. Jealousy games, cheating, cheating with your best friend, anything to get you emotional and potentially under their control.

This is why we all advocate so strongly you disconnect or do not even consider trying to "train" a BPD and get a fvck buddy scenario going because the only ones that can tame them are sociopaths who are better at this game than them and have no emotions from which the BPD could manipulate them with.

Bible Belt a normal guy is only so good dealing with BPD's these days because he has been through emotional hell in his life because of a brutal divorce from his wife then he may of experienced a BPD unaware that there were women like that in the world and then went through the pain of that, then recovered from all of the pain he can now persue them and stay absolutely emotionally cold towards them because he knows what they are and where the relationship will lead if he lets them into his heart.

AFC's constantly come to this site with no options wondering how to tame a BPD and we tell them to disengage and get some real normal options for themselves and then they wouldn't be going for the sole single BPD female that was the first in forever to pay any attention to them at all.

A guy like Bible Belt is an exception to the rule with them only because he has been through so much sh!t in his life. Most guys coming here and reading his posts think they can do what he does too with BPD's but these guys don't know themselves and their emotions as well as Bible Belt knows his and doubts can spring up in their mind as the BPD manipulates them to where these AFC's will begin to think they were just being paranoid to think their little BPD sweety could be mentally ill and right when they let their guard down is when the emotional vampire sinks her fangs in.

So yeah when you are on the hunt only go after normal chicks.

To become the exception to the rule and be able to keep a BPD as a fvck buddy you have to be able to cut all emotions off surrounding her and prepare for the games to begin and never waiver in your emotional coldness and lack of attachment for her. Most guys cannot do this, most guys will get attached and hurt which is why we do not recommend this for the guys that come here and ask about it.

Its a very psychologically taxing balancing act and far too much work when you can have an easier time of gaming a normal chick in comparison.
 

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why would you want to TRAIN them? what is keeping you from ditching unhealthy people in your life and adding healthy ones?
 

drmeathead

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I went through the ringer with my ex about two years ago. I found about this BPD the hard way...most of it post-relationship. It took me awhile to get back to where I was. I thought I was this jaded cool cat who could and did handle any thing that came my way.

I then ran into this girl about 2 months ago. The BPD bells went off in my head but in my arrogance I figured I could tame her. I thought I had her under control. Well I lost. My head was up my ass after about 6 dates. It got ugly for me. I embarassed myself.

STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM THESE WOMEN. YOU CANT WIN UNLESS YOU ARE CRAZIER THAN THEY ARE. To paraphrase from The Bible, "What profit does a man make if he gains the world but loses his soul."
 

jophil28

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spook120 said:
WHOA! You just described my BPD ex! Two husbands and three kids, supposedly molested when young, stunningly beautiful, unbelievable sex the first night, clingy to the extreme, hated other attractive women and left me with a huge hole in my life that took 2 years to mend.
That is the same movie we have all played a starring role in.

Some Early Alerts -

* Unstable personal life with men ( But NEVER their own fault)
Unstable in an extreme way. Cheating, drugs, booze, frequent breakups and makeups, sex as power games,huge levels of conflict. Dramatics stories from her past which resemble soap opera situations.

* Stunningly beautiful, a preoccupation with their appearance, Sexualized conversations in the first few weeks. Very flirty in a 'practised ' way.

*Eager to please you and eager to be with you. At the extreme end of the sweet, demure, and nice scale. An 'ideal' women with NO apparent flaws.

* Tells stories of childhood abuse or abandonment in a dispassionate style.
Tells stories of abuse and abandonment by ex husband or ex b/f.

* Portrays herself as 'victim' to abusive or cruel men. Relates to men with an extreme love/ hate .

* Hypervigilance - scared of everything and on high alert. Highly fearful of everyday occurences. High levels of mistrust and suspicion toward men.

* Shows extreme jealousy toward another woman when the situation was benign. Has a very high need to be the center of your attention.
wants to merge with you rapidly and uses sex to achieve that end.

These are a few early warning signs that indicate that you may be seeing a PD woman. Some of these behaviors resemble normal female behavior. BUT with a PD everything is exaggerated or extreme. However the high functioners are experts at playing it down and appearing 'normal" however there is always a strange sense that, "she is too good to be true". You think that you have found the "perfect" woman.
The reason that you feel this vibe is because she is a phony . Your instincts are telling you so.
 

drmeathead

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Blue Phoenix said:
Come on guys, do some research. There are about 10.0000 repeated topics about this.
What skin is it off your back if someone wants to discuss this topic? A BPD girl can totally rip apart your world. While reading other people's threads, it isnt the same as your situation. Unless you have been through a BPD relationship and the mess that your life becomes, you dont understand the need to want to communicate your feelings and emotions. You have so many all at once, the need to share and get feedback on them is major part of the healing process.

This thread was labeled clearly, why read it and then gripe about what the content herewithin contained?
 

Blue Phoenix

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drmeathead said:
What skin is it off your back if someone wants to discuss this topic? A BPD girl can totally rip apart your world. While reading other people's threads, it isnt the same as your situation. Unless you have been through a BPD relationship and the mess that your life becomes, you dont understand the need to want to communicate your feelings and emotions. You have so many all at once, the need to share and get feedback on them is major part of the healing process.

This thread was labeled clearly, why read it and then gripe about what the content herewithin contained?
Man, I see your point but I BET the answers here are pretty much the same as the other topics (about the same issue). If the point is only to "vent" it´s ok, yet the cases are way similar. The connection, the frustation, the fears, etc. Why not condense everything on the same topic? Why disperse? I´m not saying not to post about it, but to post in the correspondent topic, which would still be relevant and open to more debates about it.

*A person that suffers from a BPD girl in the USA is not that different from one that suffers from a BPD person in Spain. Well, that´s what I think.

What I mean is that sosuave has become waaayyy complicated to "navigate". You see the same topics being posted 10.000000 times over and over and It´s really a burden. It´s no surprise that the old posters don´t post that much. Most members are "newbies". This is a serious problem here in sosuave. Everything has been watered-down.

I think new posts should be created only if it´s about something new or different to avoid dispertion and lack of organization. Do some search on attention wh0res and you will see what I mean.
 

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Well the problems with your idea Blue Phoenix (though well intentioned I'm sure) is a lot of guys come here and make a post about a girlfriend or wife they have had a consistent amount of overwhelming trouble with and they literally had no idea that these personality disorders existed at all.

They understandably want immediate answers from people who may know exactly what they are dealing with and you can't get that from the search feature here if you don't know what it is you are looking for in the first place can you?

The answer is no you can't.

Also these people have specific questions they want answered that have bothered them about the relationship for some time and you can't get immediate relief to your questions once again if you have to spend hours going through a search feature hoping someone else has answered your specific question before. Its just not practical when you can ask a question and get an immediate answer rather than sift through thousands of ancient forum posts hoping to find what you are looking for with no direct involvement of other former victims of these people you may be looking for in order to empathize with you.

These type of women are a Sosuave epidemic.

Persistant Exaction made a brilliant post about why this is a while ago and he said perhaps these women are not a widespread phenomenon in society and we only hear about them so often on forums like these because guys who don't run into problem women obviously wouldn't be seeking out such a place as this for answers.

What he said may be true or maybe they are a big epidemic in society.

Who really knows?

In anycase these disordered people are a relevant issue for men and women out in the field to avoid and there are new posters and young people coming here all of the time that need to be warned that these predators are out there and these young people by the thousands read the new threads that are created regularly and perhaps learn to avoid these types themselves as a result.

Something such young people and new posters would not do if their only option for learning about these people were to use the search feature.

After all how are you going to learn more about something if you never were made aware it existed in the first place?

Bottom line is though its sad to see a new victim of one of these people come here and make a heartbreaking post about their experience it is also highly educational for the thousands of lurkers who read the topic that is made.

I do sympathize with you about forum clutter and the quality issue but the fact of the matter is the post limit the admin set up here hasn't improved the quality of the posts any nor would locking certain threads help.

The only thing that I have ever seen improve a forum's quality is a sudden influx of new and highly entertaining posters or posters who learn and grow and come to be highly regarded among the community they take a part in.

Sosuave probably needs this to happen again but yeah until that happens again the quality will continue to diminish and no amount of complaining, setting post limits or locking threads is going to change that.

One last thing I will say in favor for your idea Blue Phoenix is maybe what should be done here about these personality disorder topics is the mods allow a new poster to make at least one topic about what they've gone through and then get our opinions on it and some explanations and anymore topics made by them later about going back to the nutjob or getting with a new nutjob and wanting our help should then be locked and the mod who does the locking puts a link to BPDfamily.org in their topic or PM's it to them and tells them to go there to talk more about it as the urge to continually need the relationship talked about over and over again is known as processing and it is a natural recovery mechanism for post traumatic stress disorder which these PD relationships so often create in their victims.

Handling the issue that way allows the mods here to cut down on clutter while still allowing us to help a guy identify what he's been dealing with in his life.
 

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Blue Phoenix said:
Come on guys, do some research. There are about 10.0000 repeated topics about this.

new information is added to the database all the time. this is the Internet. We can just keep adding good information. Don't try to alter or stifle the "natural order" of the forum. :D
 

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Kontroller X said:

A lot of guys come here and make a post about a girlfriend or wife they have had a consistent amount of overwhelming trouble with and they literally had no idea that these personality disorders existed at all.
Well, in this case I agree with you! :eek:

My source of "knowledge" has been askmen.com. At least there it´s something organized. I know it´s not the same as the forum but...

:cool:
 

drmeathead

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Wow I learn something everytime I come here about BPD and I feel I am reasonably well read on it. The whole processing mechanism. I did talk about my ex BPD girl ALL the time. People, even family, were annoyed. Wow I thought I was just weak minded or something. I didnt realize it was a natural coping mechanism. I feel better now knowing this. I also feel better in calling my undiagosed ex and then this one from last month BPDers. Thanks KontrollerX.
 
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KontrollerX said:
They use a lot of superlatives in... first 2 months of the relationship, RUN! lol
 

jophil28

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KontrollerX said:
They sabotage their relationships because they cannot take the pain of another loss like how they viewed their parents to of abandoned them as a child so they do a pre-emptive strike against you by ending the relationship or cheating on you and leaving you when you get too emotionally close to them.

This is why they most often stay with the men who for the longest periods of time are able to keep their distance from the BPD but even then the BPD just keeps getting crazier and crazier and trying ever harder to mindgame the guy who is being distant. Jealousy games, cheating, cheating with your best friend, anything to get you emotional and potentially under their control.

.
This describes the BPDs mindset and her behavior precisely.

The second para is particularly instructive.
The greatest tragedy for HEALTHY men who unknowingly become involved with a BPD woman is that they are treated the worst because they naturally attempt to form a close bond with this woman that they have fallen for.
The BPD experiences this desire for closer involvement and committment as SMOTHERING and ENGULFMENT of her,and reacts with the most bizarre mindgames to provoke drama and conflict and create some "distance" for HERSELF. In this sense the BPD act in the opposite way to normal woman and this is why a relationship with a BPD often feels as if the world is flipped on its head.
BPDs crave a kind of childish, fawning, attention filled relationship with a man WITHOUT any obligation on her part to play the part of an adult partner .

Their behavior largely resembles that of a promiscuious, ditzy, 16 year old who has NO clue about the world of adult relationships.. Of course they do know - Mine was 47 years old and often said to me " I have the emotions of a child "..She was right. And her behavior reflected her emotional underdevelopment BUT she knew what was OK and not OK because she insisted that I comply with a strict adult moral code - she just did not want to do so herself.
 

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Awesome information, guys! I'm now convinced that my ex-gf has BPD. And all along I thought she was just a selfish, manipulative, lying, cheating, bar skank! This makes everything better. No really. It's a whole lot easier to forgive one who has hurt you when you realize this is a mental disorder and not something you should take personally.

But as was mentioned previously, when it comes to nexting her due to issues and baggage, it really doesn't matter why she is screwed up. Once you determine a girl is damaged, you next her and move on to one who isn't. :up:
 

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steve38 said:
But as was mentioned previously, when it comes to nexting her due to issues and baggage, it really doesn't matter why she is screwed up. Once you determine a girl is damaged, you next her and move on to one who isn't. :up:
True, however it helps if you are switched on to the signs and symptoms of Cluster B behavior in women so that you can NAME it and DUMP if it ever comes along again.. These women WILL abuse you in some way and show significant disrespect to you in the first few months. THat is CERTAIN.
The knowledge that you gain here about these PD women may save you from a year or more of being towed along on HER rollercoaster in the most painful and bewildering way.

BPD women are hateful twisted creatures who lust after the power that they are convinced that their pvssy brings them.

One early sign of a BPD woman can be her 'cool and detached ' sexuality and the way that she "dangles " it at you. Unlike normal women, she can fvkk with little true emotion.
 

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Great post as always jophil.

Another reason its important for knowledgeable guys like you and I and a few others who've went through this experience to spread awareness about these disorders is because the knowledge literally saves lives.

There was a doctor I read about not long ago that had a wife, a family and of course he was having a succesful career as a doctor but then he encountered a BPD who lured him away from his wife, got the emotions out of him that she needed and discarded him coldly and with no explanation as the Cluster B horror story so often goes.

During the ensuing chaos of the relationship I believe I read he lost his job and his family as his wife divorced him and having no family left to turn to and being doubly overwhelmed with a false love sickness addiction for the BPD that was long gone off fvcking some other guy that formerly successful doctor killed himself.

Now its true the doctor cheated on his wife and was wrong for that but still the story and others I have read reveal that these people aren't just a danger to other's mental health but other people's lives both through screwing the other person's mind up similarly to theirs to the point they commit suicide as well quite literally through the cold callousness of their disorder literally killing someone.

I have read stories about BPD's attempting to kill men by driving their cars into guy's houses trying to kill the guy and themselves, I read a story about a BPD making fun of her past victim for killing himself over her to her new victim as they lay in bed after having sex and even on this forum I think I read Bible Belt say that one of his BPD ex's killed someone in a drunk driving episode and pretty much got off with a slap on the wrist.

I'm not a religious man but I can't help but think of the term evil surrounding these women much like jophil often uses it.

There's a phrase in the Bible that says "The devil comes to steal, to kill and destroy" and that you must put on the full armor of god to avoid all of his traps.

Well its similar with BPD's.

They will destroy your mind and body if you allow them to by giving you an STD or literally sucking the emotional life right out of you until you contemplate killing yourself and possibly no longer contemplating and going through with it.

Young people, middle aged people and old people that are lurking please take in all of the knowledge jophil and I have to offer about these people in our various posts so that you can avoid them at all costs.

They are not your one true love, they are the walking dead and all they will bring to your life is death.

Emotional and possibly physical.

Stay away.
 
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