At what point does money become irrelevant?

[itouchyou]

This debate of $200k being middle class vs upper class has too much nuance to be a black and white issue.

1) where are we talking about?
2) is this household income or individual?

For an individual, $200k is upper class in cities that are not NYC/SF/Boston.
For a household, $200k is middle class or upper middle class no matter where you live. In NYC/SF/Boston if you're raising a family on $200k I'd say that's solid middle class.

Not only that, but we aren't taking into account net worth. If someone makes $200k in NYC/SF/Boston but they have multiple six or seven figures in net worth and assets that are producing cash for them, then yea I'd say that could be upper class.

Individuals pulling in $200k in NYC/SF/Boston, they'd be taking home $9k after 401k/roth and spending $4k for a decent one bedroom, perhaps $3k for dining/vacations/clothes/toys, leaving $2k left over. It's an upper class lifestyle, but not an upper class financial situation.


I think for individuals in NYC/SF/Boston, $300k is the number where money becomes irrelevant. For households I'd say $400k.

 

[jaygreenb]

This debate of $200k being middle class vs upper class has too much nuance to be a black and white issue.

1) where are we talking about?
2) is this household income or individual?

For an individual, $200k is upper class in cities that are not NYC/SF/Boston.
For a household, $200k is middle class or upper middle class no matter where you live. In NYC/SF/Boston if you're raising a family on $200k I'd say that's solid middle class.

Not only that, but we aren't taking into account net worth. If someone makes $200k in NYC/SF/Boston but they have multiple six or seven figures in net worth and assets that are producing cash for them, then yea I'd say that could be upper class.

Individuals pulling in $200k in NYC/SF/Boston, they'd be taking home $9k after 401k/roth and spending $4k for a decent one bedroom, perhaps $3k for dining/vacations/clothes/toys, leaving $2k left over. It's an upper class lifestyle, but not an upper class financial situation.


I think for individuals in NYC/SF/Boston, $300k is the number where money becomes irrelevant. For households I'd say $400k.

We are going back and forth about NYC specifically. Net Worth certainly matters a lot but a lot less cut and dry and many variables. Rough estimate would say top 10% net worth and income in that area, probably fair to factor in age for NW

New York City is considerably wealthier, with the top 20% earning an average of $295,662. Meanwhile, the top 5% earn $585,902. Thus, the top 10% earn somewhere in between the two, with the average being around $440,000.

 

[member160292]

Surprisingly, Hawaii has the highest median income threshold. How are people making money over there? REIT?

 

[BackInTheGame78]

This is a pretty weird statement and not really true. I have been on two sides the poor side and the recent rich side, Im pretty happy to be on the rich side. It takes lot of bourden from your shoulders that can take away your happiness. People really underestimate the Power of Money. Those guys you mention are more likely to have a traumatic past/ underlying psychological problems and most importantly really the minority of the rich People that feel like that compared to all other People.
The statement is normally used so People with no money actually feel better

Ask all the people with money who are alcoholics, drug users, are estranged from their kids or end up committing suicide how much that money helped them to become happy.

Money simply gives you more choices, but it's up to you to make the right choices. Many people don't. Having good financial skills to make money doesn't mean you have to have good decision making skills in other areas of your life. The people who are most focused on becoming rich are also the ones who have to by definition have lesser focuses on other areas of their lives. The same way a pro athlete, bodybuilder, inventor, etc has lesser focuses on other areas of their life. Usually these are relationships with friends and family that suffer the most.

That's just the truth. If you want to pretend it's not then I suggest you see what you want to see and hear what you want to hear. I know plenty of people personally who it is true for.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

The epitome of automatics is a Submariner: new they’re 26k; anyone can get a used one for less than half of that, even less with a little blood on it.

No, that is how I dress. I wear nice dress clothes and dress shoes every day. 99% of people have no idea what my dress shoes cost. I tailor a lot of it. I was more referencing the 150k+ autos, designer clothes with name brands plastered everywhere and 10k+ watches. Something people who are not rich would assume rich people wear

 

[jaygreenb]

Ask all the people with money who are alcoholics, drug users, are estranged from their kids or end up committing suicide how much that money helped them to become happy.

Money simply gives you more choices, but it's up to you to make the right choices. Many people don't. Having good financial skills to make money doesn't mean you have to have good decision making skills in other areas of your life. The people who are most focused on becoming rich are also the ones who have to by definition have lesser focuses on other areas of their lives. The same way a pro athlete, bodybuilder, inventor, etc has lesser focuses on other areas of their life. Usually these are relationships with friends and family that suffer the most.

That's just the truth. If you want to pretend it's not then I suggest you see what you want to see and hear what you want to hear. I know plenty of people personally who it is true for.

I never really thought about the breakdowns by class so just looked it up. So many variables especially when you factor in occupations and who your peers/neighbors are. Anyway, interesting. Can definitely attest that having money is better than not having it but it is far from a guarantee of happiness. You can have periods of high imbalances but long term can't neglect important areas.

'Keeping Up With The Joneses' Could Lead To Suicide

www.businessinsider.com

Suicide rates across income levels: Retrospective cohort data on 1 million participants collected between 2003 and 2013 in South Korea - PMC

The relation of income and socioeconomic status with suicide rates remains unclear. Most previous studies have focused on the relationship between suicide rates and macroeconomic factors (e.g., economic growth rate). Therefore, we aimed to identify ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Frontiers | Associations of Suicide Rates With Socioeconomic Status and Social Isolation: Findings From Longitudinal Register and Census Data

Suicide represents a major challenge to public mental health. In order to provide empirical evidence for prevention strategies, we hypothesized current level...

www.frontiersin.org

 

[jaygreenb]

The epitome of automatics is a Submariner: new they’re 26k; anyone can get a used one for less than half of that, even less with a little blood on it.

Watch market was raging when everything else was, heard it fell off a cliff lately but I do not really follow it. At the peak of everything I was considering getting a daydate, probably a great top indicator in retrospect lol I am not that flashy but can appreciate fine craftsmanship

 

[jaygreenb]

I’m surrounded with People who are rich and my Circle consist of people with money and non of them go through this. This is what I already said those guys you mention are already damaged People like a woman who was going through 100 body counts and thinks she is wife material, either that or they just want to appear humble to protect self-image. A men with Money will be always happier than without or less money. Sorry but only People who are wealthy can understand this and this all is The truth

If you are 26, what type of biz/careers does your circle have? just curious. As a man, there is definitely some fulfilment drawn from being higher up in the food chain, having expertise, authority and recognized as successful

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

There’s rich and there’s ghetto rich.

True affluence is understated.

Women assume I’m loaded, I’m not.

The reason they do is because I dress well, understated, good pair of recraftable Fords or whatever, dark jeans, a skate shirt, shortsleeved, pressed - always. I’m not cheap, but I am also not a baller.

Find your style, stick to it.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I’m surrounded with People who are rich and my Circle consist of people with money and non of them go through this. This is what I already said those guys you mention are already damaged People like a woman who was going through 100 body counts and thinks she is wife material, either that or they just want to appear humble to protect self-image. A men with Money will be always happier than without or less money. Sorry but only People who are wealthy can understand this and this all is The truth

Well she is likely far richer than you and agrees with my point.

Shark Tank's Barbara Corcoran: Money doesn't make you happy | Fortune

If you think more money would make you happier, the "Shark Tank" star has some bad news for you.

www.google.com

 

[itouchyou]

The epitome of automatics is a Submariner: new they’re 26k; anyone can get a used one for less than half of that, even less with a little blood on it.

Where do you live where a new submariner is 26k? If you manage to snag one from an official dealer they are 11k. Grey market goes for 15k.

 

[AAAgent]

Where do you live where a new submariner is 26k? If you manage to snag one from an official dealer they are 11k. Grey market goes for 15k.

I went to the store earlier this year and it was around $12k. Not sure where the $26k comes from. The estimated wait time was 1 year though. I'm still on the list.

 

[itouchyou]

I went to the store earlier this year and it was around $12k. Not sure where the $26k comes from. The estimated wait time was 1 year though. I'm still on the list.

I did not know that they could estimate wait times. Interesting.. is it based on location? I am on the list also as of last month.

 

[AAAgent]

I did not know that they could estimate wait times. Interesting.. is it based on location? I am on the list also as of last month.

I didn't ask how they calculated wait times but they have an internal database and a waitlist based off that waitlist i'm assuming.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

Where do you live where a new submariner is 26k? If you manage to snag one from an official dealer they are 11k. Grey market goes for 15k.

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[Pierce Manhammer]

There are different models, the cheapest can be had for less.

 

[Fruitbat]

I made £140,000 total package last year which is $179,000.

after taxes though it’s more like £94,000 or $120,000.

I’ve had to pay some serious bills for my house as it’s a state (renovating). I have about $10,000 in actual liquid savings I can call on. Much is tied up in pension provision.

I try to explain to my wife that I’m top 10% earners but she still says “you don’t earn that much and you’re not wealthy”.

She says she’ll only give up work to be a housewife if I can hand her $2,700 a month as an allowance.

There are lots of women I feel who would be very proud of a man making that money.

Women are born complainers. Most I’ve been with have been similar. Whatever You’ve done they are looking and desperately trying to find someone with more so they can feel miserable. They have to feel miserable at all costs!

It grinds me down a bit because realistically I dont think its possible in my career to earn much more - perhaps another 40k if im really lucky. I'm experienced and good at my job. I am kind of at the limit of what's possible.

Nothing makes me more pissed off than when she scoffs at my earnings and says "i dont see you earn much and you're still poor. you have a mortgage. you should own your own property"

Asian wives have a really high expectation. while she is loyal, doesn't drink and has a lot of good qualities, she has never once shown gratitude for what i do, never said well done and always acts like she's had to settle for a life of poverty because I'm not a multi millionaire and sadly my family are poor as church mice so its taken me till middle age to get anywhere. i didn't have a house deposit or money for a business, a lot of asian men seem to get given family money and im being compared to them.

 

[jaygreenb]

I made £140,000 total package last year which is $179,000.

after taxes though it’s more like £94,000 or $120,000.

I’ve had to pay some serious bills for my house as it’s a state (renovating). I have about $10,000 in actual liquid savings I can call on. Much is tied up in pension provision.

I try to explain to my wife that I’m top 10% earners but she still says “you don’t earn that much and you’re not wealthy”.

She says she’ll only give up work to be a housewife if I can hand her $2,700 a month as an allowance.

There are lots of women I feel who would be very proud of a man making that money.

Women are born complainers. Most I’ve been with have been similar. Whatever You’ve done they are looking and desperately trying to find someone with more so they can feel miserable. They have to feel miserable at all costs!

It grinds me down a bit because realistically I dont think its possible in my career to earn much more - perhaps another 40k if im really lucky. I'm experienced and good at my job. I am kind of at the limit of what's possible.

Nothing makes me more pissed off than when she scoffs at my earnings and says "i dont see you earn much and you're still poor. you have a mortgage. you should own your own property"

Asian wives have a really high expectation. while she is loyal, doesn't drink and has a lot of good qualities, she has never once shown gratitude for what i do, never said well done and always acts like she's had to settle for a life of poverty because I'm not a multi millionaire and sadly my family are poor as church mice so its taken me till middle age to get anywhere. i didn't have a house deposit or money for a business, a lot of asian men seem to get given family money and im being compared to them.

Do you have kids with her?

 

[eli77]

I don't really value early retirement. I have lived a semi retired life due to being able to consistently work only 5-10 hours a week for the past 5 years in my late 20s/early 30s. I don't like it because I feel like I'm not utilizing my mind. Feels like being unemployed.

I would rather find something I'm interested in and do that until the day I die. Maybe on a part time basis as I'm older, but never to the point where I'm not doing anything at all.

What did you do?

 

[itouchyou]

What did you do?

I was in engineering consulting for 10+ years.. from 2018-2022 I had a monopoly on my service and basically shut out anyone from working on my client, and I was able to get away with it because I gained a huge efficiency on the work and was 100% billable, client was also very happy with my work. Would basically charge market value for projects but complete them in 20% of the time. Higher ups didn't want to jeopardize that. 2022 - present I'm at a different firm where there are no hardcore engineering folks so they basically let me sit on the sidelines while they started their new business unit. It's complete luck, nothing special. I'm about to leave to a company that's going to make me work a full 40+.