At what point does money become irrelevant?

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When I was married between my spouse and I we made ~750k US a year full comp, base salaries amounted to ~525k.

I out earned her by almost 6 figs.

I left that career to pursue my current one which pays a fraction of the aforementioned, I am 1000% happier.
I’ll add that you need to grind to max income you can possibly achieve for 5-10 years, then you can let off the throttle and find something you’ve always wanted to do.

I’m on the way to make that combined base salary in a couple of years. After, I’m going to invest in a fishing boat, start my own charter and enjoy the smiles on people’s faces when I land them on tunas
 

BackInTheGame78

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Agree with what others have said here. For me I wanted to buy my freedom and provide for my family simultaneously.

I’ve got the 6 figure income and the million+ net worth already. I drive a luxury car, which I have not to impress others but because going 125+ with the top down from time to time is fun. The car is for me (it’s comfortable for 2 but the backseat is a luxurious after thought, lol.) And my guy and I make combined around 500K.

I have friends and people I know who are worth tens or even hundreds of millions, they can afford most anything in a material sense, a yacht, a 40M SF house near the Battery, second homes, investments, you name it. It’s just stuff. I collect Art & love good jewelry and well curated nice things, but it’s still all just stuff.

My philosophy has always been to buy quality things because I like them, take care of them, and keep them. I also like timeless things that are designer but not logo adorned. I have several pairs of Gucci or Prada shoes that I bought 20+ years ago, worn them everywhere including walking all over NYC, had them resoled, still wear them & still get compliments on them. Ditto expensive timeless dresses & blouses.

We both work remote and have business travel, which we combine for pleasure as much as possible. I’m on a flight to MIA right now for a meeting tomorrow there. My guy is in FL on business already this week so he’s joining me in MIA and we’ll stay the weekend with 2/3 expenses picked up by business.
We have gear for skiing, gear for his sport, and travel for those things.

And two of my kids are grown & Ive given them each an entry level car & an education including private schools.

I’ve got an income real estate portfolio and could retire tomorrow altogether but at a reduced lifestyle, so I’m still working (but with a satisfactory arrangement) until I can truly afford my current lifestyle outright and have finished paying for college for my kids.

It is all about your personal priorities and quality of life. We live in a consumer driven lifestyle in the West. There’s always a new “it” thing. So what.

Your life is defined by the experiences you have and the quality of your relationships, friends, family, lover, etc. It’s not about things. Having money can buy you freedom & experiences, so it’s a great tool wielded wisely.

But to pursue it for sake of money alone is an empty pursuit, it’s an ancient issue, and is addressed in ancient religious texts including the Bible for that reason.

Food for thought.
There are a lot of people who pursue money because they think it will help them find happiness...then once they get it they become depressed as they find out that it doesn't and then realize what it actually cost them.
 

BeExcellent

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There are a lot of people who pursue money because they think it will help them find happiness...then once they get it they become depressed as they find out that it doesn't and then realize what it actually cost them.
Agreed. There certainly are associated costs and those costs are time and relationships along the way. I’ve been fortunate in that working remote since 2000 I was able to arrange my life as advantageously as possible. And the luxury of affording a house husband when the kids were all small was a huge net positive, eventual divorce notwithstanding. I missed a lot of moments but their father didn’t. That was the trade off. And he’s a loving nuturing father, which many men are not.

I knew very soon after college that the 8-5 or later grind was not for me. Stultifying. The travel in my career keeps me fresh & curious about new places and at home the office is there, whatever hours as long as work gets done. It’s allowed me to expose my kids to places & experiences along the way (we often traveled as a family.)

I’ve studiously avoided management. That would tie me to my desk more, no thanks, and I’ve forgone some career advancement and higher income as well as a result. That’s Ok. I have tremendous work ethic, but on my terms if that makes sense. I get up when I wake up, I don’t do rush hour and if I want to grab coffee or lunch or workout during the day, I do. I’ve coached my son’s soccer team (a blast!) when I had a more local role.

In my view you must decide what is most important and you must allow time for your own fulfillment along the way. Delayed gratification and immense discipline to accomplish success (however one defines it) is great, but not to the point of being so out of balance that self care and personal relationships and health suffer. That’s overboard and unhealthy.

And look. It’s not over if you don’t “make it” by age 30 or 35.

Arrange your life to your advantage.

Four hour work week anyone? Good book to read by the way. Tim Ferris is the author.
 

FlirtLife

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For those comparing yourselves to high income, high NW posters here : look down. Almost a third of Americans have $0 or less. You're ahead of 100,000,000 people by having more money than debt.

"When it comes to Americans’ actual net worth, 31% say their net worth is $0 or in the negative, meaning their total amount of liabilities meets or exceeds their assets."
 

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Stoic

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$175k is not chump change op even if you live in a high cost of living area.

I travel quite a bit. I am self employed and am a very high income earner and have steadily invested. My girlfriend now as of only a couple of years ago earned less than $200 per month for a business administrative position in the Philippines and worked no less harder than me.
So I always put that in perspective and am grateful for having a natural disposition to being ambitious and working hard but also living in a country where you get rewarded for those efforts.
 

Reincarnated

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I've heard the 75k thrown around as the point where anything above that does not reduce financial stress. Personally I believe that's probably true, recently hitting that number. I've also heard that you should grind your way up the ladder until 35, maximizing income growth, and then at that point stepping back and evaluating what you really want/what gives you purpose.
 

RazorRambo24

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It all depends on lifestyle. There's nothing more to it. If you know what to do with money, your money will only compound and help grow you to newer heights.. There's a big difference between someone who makes a lot of money but is locked down to a corporate entity for 40-50 hours a week and guys like me who own and manage our own businesses.

I've been making well over 6 figures (being modest rn since i have had 7 figure years) and I haven't bought a really nice car till this year . I still live in the same apartment I've been in the past few years, whic his a nice luxury apartment but I could have bought a house already if I wanted.. while I have been paying attention to the market in various places I don't really have an urge to make the jump just yet.

But what I have done was spend alot of money going out eating at nice restaurants, getting VIP bottleservice/table service at nice clubs, traveling a bit, going to see sporting events, buying designer clothes, etc. I don't buy tons of electronics or leisurely things.. or just go crazy and buy a new car every 6 months or any of that.

Money affords you alot of different opportunities.. If you have time, interests/hobbies and are extroverted, you'll find ways to enjoy the money you earn. When it comes to my primary business, I don't cheap out. I spend alot on investing back into the business, marketing, and taking care of all the people I work with and who work for us.

The only thing I will say is the more money i make, the more private I become to the world outside my own bubble. Yes, I do have an Instagram where I kinda showoff some of my lifestyle but its set to private so I vet who I allow to follow me. This is becuas eas a brand owner I gotta take alot of responsibility--

One of my dreams was to own a gym.. but does taht mean I'm going to dish out alot of dough to pursue that? Not really because I don't know the ins and outs of that business. I also have a dream of opening up a restaurant and also a nightclub.. but I know that the restaurant business is one of the most difficult industries to get into. Do i have the possibilities to do these things? Up till my mid 20's I had no clue where I ws headed in life and was just riding the waves.. so now that I got the abundance of wealth , I like to stay level headed.

The biggest difference between my friends that make$150k-200k a year and myself is that they watch their pockets way more than I do..Some of them are still paying off student loans. Myself, I spend fruitfully because I got it like that, but only fruitfully on things that I can cherish well like nice clothes, traveling, good food. Some of these guys spend $1000-2000 on a weekend and then try to be careful the rest of the month.. I don't blame them though, but it goes to show you the difference between the low end of 6 figures living in a big expensive city and upwards of 6 figures into the 7 figures category. There's months where I've spent 20-30k just on dining out//shopping and doing fun stuff and I don't even flinch about it.
 

BackInTheGame78

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$175k is not chump change op even if you live in a high cost of living area.

I travel quite a bit. I am self employed and am a very high income earner and have steadily invested. My girlfriend now as of only a couple of years ago earned less than $200 per month for a business administrative position in the Philippines and worked no less harder than me.
So I always put that in perspective and am grateful for having a natural disposition to being ambitious and working hard but also living in a country where you get rewarded for those efforts.
70% of the world lives on $900 a month or less. People need perspective. Everyone looks towards those who have more than them, but there are far more people on this planet that have far less.

Instead of being upset for what you don't have, more people should be thankful for what they do have. You didn't control where you were born, be thankful it was where you are at and not a third world country.
 

jaygreenb

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It all depends on lifestyle. There's nothing more to it. If you know what to do with money, your money will only compound and help grow you to newer heights.. There's a big difference between someone who makes a lot of money but is locked down to a corporate entity for 40-50 hours a week and guys like me who own and manage our own businesses.

I've been making well over 6 figures (being modest rn since i have had 7 figure years) and I haven't bought a really nice car till this year . I still live in the same apartment I've been in the past few years, whic his a nice luxury apartment but I could have bought a house already if I wanted.. while I have been paying attention to the market in various places I don't really have an urge to make the jump just yet.

But what I have done was spend alot of money going out eating at nice restaurants, getting VIP bottleservice/table service at nice clubs, traveling a bit, going to see sporting events, buying designer clothes, etc. I don't buy tons of electronics or leisurely things.. or just go crazy and buy a new car every 6 months or any of that.

Money affords you alot of different opportunities.. If you have time, interests/hobbies and are extroverted, you'll find ways to enjoy the money you earn. When it comes to my primary business, I don't cheap out. I spend alot on investing back into the business, marketing, and taking care of all the people I work with and who work for us.

The only thing I will say is the more money i make, the more private I become to the world outside my own bubble. Yes, I do have an Instagram where I kinda showoff some of my lifestyle but its set to private so I vet who I allow to follow me. This is becuas eas a brand owner I gotta take alot of responsibility--

One of my dreams was to own a gym.. but does taht mean I'm going to dish out alot of dough to pursue that? Not really because I don't know the ins and outs of that business. I also have a dream of opening up a restaurant and also a nightclub.. but I know that the restaurant business is one of the most difficult industries to get into. Do i have the possibilities to do these things? Up till my mid 20's I had no clue where I ws headed in life and was just riding the waves.. so now that I got the abundance of wealth , I like to stay level headed.

The biggest difference between my friends that make$150k-200k a year and myself is that they watch their pockets way more than I do..Some of them are still paying off student loans. Myself, I spend fruitfully because I got it like that, but only fruitfully on things that I can cherish well like nice clothes, traveling, good food. Some of these guys spend $1000-2000 on a weekend and then try to be careful the rest of the month.. I don't blame them though, but it goes to show you the difference between the low end of 6 figures living in a big expensive city and upwards of 6 figures into the 7 figures category. There's months where I've spent 20-30k just on dining out//shopping and doing fun stuff and I don't even flinch about it.
The best thing you can do long term is when you start making more money do not upgrade your lifestyle and aggressively invest for the next 5-10yrs. Once you reach upper 6- low7 figure net worth in liquid assets you start to reach escape velocity where a 5-10% return is really meaningful and you have many years for it to compound. When you start doing the luxury buys and lifestyle you basically eat up those income increases. It is also a lot harder to dial your lifestyle back when you get used to living that way. "A luxury once tasted becomes a necessity"
 

RazorRambo24

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The best thing you can do long term is when you start making more money do not upgrade your lifestyle and aggressively invest for the next 5-10yrs. Once you reach upper 6- low7 figure net worth in liquid assets you start to reach escape velocity where a 5-10% return is really meaningful and you have many years for it to compound. When you start doing the luxury buys and lifestyle you basically eat up those income increases. It is also a lot harder to dial your lifestyle back when you get used to living that way. "A luxury once tasted becomes a necessity"
100% agree. My personal finance accountant has it all down to percentages when it comes to what I can comfortably spend. Its the same with stuff like credit utilization, if you stay below a certain % of your overall credit allowance it benefits your credit score greatly. I grew up super poor but I learned the value of money very well so I can never see myself just blowing money carelessly. I got friends who send me houses I should buy all the time and tell me about the market for years and I don't feel the need to buy a house even though it was a dream of mine..
 

Bingo-Player

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Money isn't real its just something which we use to trade we could paint numbers on rocks and have the same system

Economic output is real which is increasingly becoming worryingly similar to old fashioned slavery

How much of your time and labour are your prepared to sacrifice in the never ending pursuit of consumer goods ?

The real question you need to ask is " how much is enough for me "

I buy and sell stuff online

People effectively pay me to send them crap they don't really need they do the economic output for me I can just sit around all day doing whatever I want whilst managing the logistics of it

I don't live in a mansion , and I don't really have a luxury car

But I have a comfortable bed , a tv and a basic car to take me wherever I need to go

That is enough for me to be honest and the best part is I get to avoid the slavery of real working
 

jaygreenb

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Money isn't real its just something which we use to trade we could paint numbers on rocks and have the same system

Economic output is real which is increasingly becoming worryingly similar to old fashioned slavery

How much of your time and labour are your prepared to sacrifice in the never ending pursuit of consumer goods ?

The real question you need to ask is " how much is enough for me "

I buy and sell stuff online

People effectively pay me to send them crap they don't really need they do the economic output for me I can just sit around all day doing whatever I want whilst managing the logistics of it

I don't live in a mansion , and I don't really have a luxury car

But I have a comfortable bed , a tv and a basic car to take me wherever I need to go

That is enough for me to be honest and the best part is I get to avoid the slavery of real working
You are correct that money is just a shared belief that it does in fact have value. It is however an integral piece of society both positively and negatively. This will be oversimplified but money is basically stored energy and a form of communication. You are paid for your labor and that energy can then be transferred to other goods and services. With commodity money that energy is used to mine, drill, farm etc It is a very important piece in efficient commerce and also a nations prosperity. Many advancements in history have had a standard sound money component to facilitate trade. On the flip side, almost every great civilization that fell the corruption of the money was also present. This is why you see many resource rich countries unable to get past 3rd world level. Just about every fiat system through history has failed. humans always get greedy and screw it up at some point. If you think of money like a battery, the power loss(purchasing power) over time is the addition to the money supply. In a gold backed system, average supply is limited to mining constraints that averaged around 2% yearly. In a fiat system there are no limits or constraints and that effectively destroys price signals(communication). Since rocks are not scarce it is essentially a fiat system. A lot of human behavior changes based on monetary policy across many parts of people's lives.

How much is enough is a different question for everyone one. For a lot of people, it is not to purchase more consumer goods but the freedom to live life as they choose, focus on things fulfilling and to help those they care about. . Not being forced to work at something they do not enjoy to make ends meet each month. There are many people who fall into the consumer trap but that isn't the goal for everyone who accumulates wealth.
 

RBK

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More money you make the more/expensive stuff you buy.

Keep your bills low.

I know families making 350k+ a year and are broke because they overspend.

My goal at 45 is to have enough assets that pay for my debts.
 

eli77

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Interesting topic i've always said if it came to $5 million dollars and having the chance to be 18 again knowing what I know now I will go with 18 again check out this video.https://youtu.be/-ra34dUWcmw
 

eli77

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I used to hear that any additional earnings past $70k doesn't produce additional satisfaction/happiness...but that figure is outdated. Adjusted for inflation I believe it's around $120k or so, which I think is a reasonable goal. Crazy thing is that $120k isn't even that much nowadays...
Where did you read that at?
 

FlexpertHamilton

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Where did you read that at?
Jordan Peterson has mentioned it a few times and I remember hearing it in general. I don't think it holds much weight either way.
 

AAAgent

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I have been looking at friends of mine who are in pretty high positions. Account Director, Chief of Product, Vice President @ Investment Bank, etc. These guys live in SF or NYC and their salaries are all $300-$500k. Meanwhile I'm working remotely making a mere $175k in comparison. We are all 34-35 years old.

Comparison is the thief of joy - while these guys didn't get to where they are without struggle, they're living a different life (I assume).

It makes me question, what are they able to do with their money that I'm not? I might be dating a doctor soon and I realized collectively if we married we would be pulling in $425-$500k. Crazy to think about, but even at my current income levels I'm able to afford expensive watches, cars, clothes, eat out, etc. Even if I dated a simple girl making $125k/year we'd still be pulling in $300k.

Does the money just become savings at that point? Does it significantly improve one's lifestyle? All I can think of is that at a certain point all you really get are bigger homes in better neighborhoods and potentially better vacations.. but I'm just not seeing what else it affords.

I ask because I'm not challenged in my career and am thinking of jumping to something else to reach higher income levels, but I have a feeling the juice isn't worth the squeeze at that point.
Short answer. Probably around $20m networth with residual income coming in that covers all your expenses and cost. This would be an amount for a family to live comfortably off of in upper middle class lifestyle. $50m and you'll be able to live upper class life with family. Remove the family and you can probably ball out with $20m net worth. The goal is financial freedom enough to live the lifestyle you want. But having this without discipline is meaningless. I made millions, and spent millions. A few million is still not enough to ball out. You'll be done in a year.

Really depends on your age and circumstances.

It's not about salary as much as it is about networth. Salary allows you to sustain your lifestyle now but networth will allow you to sustain in larger perspective. Having a fully paid off nice house, nice car, and businesses with residual income is a huge difference from someone who doesn't own a car and rents. That's like putting $5-$10k back into your pocket to play with monthly.

In theory, what your friends with double the salary you have can do and what you can do is not much different. More money ideally leads to more assets, more assets ideally leads to more income, and more income ideally leads to financial freedom.

your gravy train on $175k can end with losing your job. there's more freedom if you have more assets, especially ones that generate income.
 

AAAgent

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There are a lot of people who pursue money because they think it will help them find happiness...then once they get it they become depressed as they find out that it doesn't and then realize what it actually cost them.
exactly. Money doesn't buy happiness.

I made a lot of money real quickly when I hit 30 and no one was around for me to spend it with. I didn't even know how to spend that much at that point. I tried to buy a lot of stuff and I didn't know where to put it all the stuff and some stuff wasn't necessary. I didn't want a large home, didn't know where I could park my lambo without worrying about it, couldn't go on vacations with friends that were always busy and working, and worse, I started to get fat and unmotivated.

I gambled for a bit. That was stupid. Went to strip clubs and that was also stupid. No one to go out to eat with, etc. Tried to be cool and do all the cool things rich people do. Realized eventually it was all pretty stupid and I didn't have enough to be crazy rich anyway.

Eventually I focused on a passion, went to work, developed more skills, knowledge, and experience. My salary now reflects someone with my net worth.

Most self accomplished people either find something useful to apply themselves to, or they devolve into degenerate's, or they settle down and retire. At a certain point of wealth accumulation, the cost benefit of money starts to diminish significantly. From $50m to $5bn, both can live extremely well off lives with no needs being unfulfilled. Nice cars and houses can both be afforded. Good education, cars, girls can be acquired. The main difference is if you want your own private jet/plan instead of chartering one, or a yacht.

drinking $200 bottle of wines, nice watches, collectibles, vacations, etc. are all within reach.

The grind to $1m in assets is extremely difficult and first hurdle.

The grind to $10m-$20m in assets is probably the next big hurdle.
 

FlexpertHamilton

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This argument about whether money buys happiness is really silly and has way more nuance.

No wealthy person has ever thought "if only I could to live paycheck to paycheck and take the bus to work at a factory, I'd be happy."

Having wealth provides security and removes almost ALL small problems/stress from your life. You no longer have to worry about health, bills, self-care, emergency expenses, etc. While there is an increased burden when you have that kind of money (for instance, finding the best healthcare) it's relatively moot. When you're broke, you have tons of little problems that constantly get in the way.

That said, chasing money obviously will not lead to happiness, in the same way as chasing a career/corporate ladder, as most of us know. But take a broke person and give them $5m (assuming they're emotionally stable and wise enough to use the money properly) and the odds they won't be happier is almost zero. It won't fix any of your deeper problems, and in fact these deeper issues may only be amplified (for instance, drug addictions).

Personally I always prioritize health over money, after all health is wealth. I won't even work a job if it starts before 9am or requires weekends. I literally just walked away from a job that pays $31/hr with 6% 401k matching, in spite of being technically "broke" (debts from college etc) because it was too stressful, and I've done that before and will probably do it again.

There are two ways to live your life - either work really hard "grind", save early, and retire early, OR do a more slow burn and accept you may have to work later into your life (but maybe not). The benefit of the latter route is you can find ways of making money along the way that is actually somewhat enjoyable or satisfying, while developing skills, connections, creativity to make money on your own. The issue with the former route is the increased stress and the fact that you'll be wasting the best years of your life (30-50) working, only to retire with fewer hobbies, skills, passions, etc and you're left wondering "what now?" Of course it's not this black or white, but generally this is the two main paths most people take.
 
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