at a crossroads..........

[pdx1138]

If she's pushing you into something you don't want...you have to dump her.

 

[Aristippus]

Vatoloco said: "If she doesn't want kids, there's not really a reason for her to want to get married except to 1) not be a social [unmarried] pariah in front of her social circle (family, friends, etc.) and/or 2) ensure her financial future (with or WITHOUT you)."

I'd have to add another reason to this. Many women fear the idea of being alone for the rest of their lives. We are the few men that understand that you can have lifelong love and companionship with a person without having a legal marriage. If there are still a lot of men that equate marriage to commitment, then you know that there are even less women that understand that marriage does not necessarily = commitment.

What the governments did was, they took a social custom that represented 2 people wanting to spend the rest of their lives together and craftily created a situation where they would only recognize a marriage that was entered into UNDER THEIR RULES. This meant that they would only recognize a marriage if the marriage was entered into by signing a contract where THEY, the governments, called the shots.

Women, for the most part, only see what it appears to be on the surface, and what marriage was originally meant to be. An agreement between a man and a woman to spend their lives together and be there for each other. Many women FAIL to see that you're also inviting a 3rd party into your life and that this 3rd party might not always have your best interests in mind.

Many women simply think that marriage means commitment and that their fears of being alone will be gone once a man commits THROUGH MARRIAGE. That the traditional marriage IS THE ONLY ACCEPTABLE MEANS THROUGH WHICH A MAN WILL COMMIT TO HER and therefore, IS THE ONLY MEANS THROUGH WHICH SHE IS GUARANTEED PROTECTION FROM THE POSSIBILITY OF LONELINESS AND ABANDONMENT IN THE FUTURE.

 

[The Duke]

Vatoloco and Aristippus- you guys are dead on. The reasons she wants to be married are:

1. not be a social [unmarried] pariah in front of her social circle (family, friends, etc.)

She has gone so many years unmarried that society thinks something is wrong with her which isn't the case. There's been a few ask her for marriage and she said no because the timing wasn't right or they weren't the right guy. She's been pretty selective which I give her props for. It bothers her to show up at family functions and having to say "this is my boyfriend". She's reached a point in her life she wants more. I can understand why this would bother a woman.

3. Many women simply think that marriage means commitment and that their fears of being alone will be gone once a man commits THROUGH MARRIAGE. That the traditional marriage IS THE ONLY ACCEPTABLE MEANS THROUGH WHICH A MAN WILL COMMIT TO HER and therefore, IS THE ONLY MEANS THROUGH WHICH SHE IS GUARANTEED PROTECTION FROM THE POSSIBILITY OF LONELINESS AND ABANDONMENT IN THE FUTURE.

#3 is exactly what she thinks. She's a dependent personality type and abandonment is one thing those types fear. I've tried to argue that "marriage" doesn't guarantee protection from future abandonment(divorce). But as we know, women see things on the surface and don't look much further. This fear generates so much anxiety in her that it causes problems in our relationship.

She gets upset and acts out because I am not exactly ready to be married, yet I stay away from the marriage route because of her negative actions. She can't keep her fears and anxiety at bay long enough to convince me marriage would be the right path to go. Its like gridlock! I've explained the issue to her and she understands it but her emotions tend to get the best of her and she loses all rational reasoning.

 

[vatoloco]

I've explained the issue to her and she understands it but her emotions tend to get the best of her and she loses all rational reasoning.

SOP in Woman Land.

 

[AW1983]

She gets upset and acts out because I am not exactly ready to be married, yet I stay away from the marriage route because of her negative actions. She can't keep her fears and anxiety at bay long enough to convince me marriage would be the right path to go. Its like gridlock!

Man oh man do I understand this. Going through something very, very similar for a little while now. It's a real catch 22 clusterfvck. In the back of your mind you're just thinking "chill the f out and then maybe this can go where you want eventually!" but the more they stress over it, the more unwelcome (and unintentional on their part) pressure and negative vibes gets put on everything, causing you to (unconsciously) withdraw and second guess.

It's a tough one man...you don't want to "submit to their frame", but on the other hand a good woman who is attractive WILL expect to get married at some point. I will be watching this thread with great interest. Would like to hear more from the happily married guys on their take...

 

[betheman]

women generally have a 2 year window pre marriage, beyond that, your days are usually numbered, men..its about 4-5 years. huge disparity!
however women will pull the 'sh!t or get off the pot" stunt, does that sound like love or as it does to me...give me what Im due now!
if you are being pressured, the reasons for you being with ehr arent completely based in love and mutual respect.

 

[backbreaker]

here is my general rule of thumb in this situation


The ONLY way a man should ever get married, ever. EVER. no exceptions. is if it'ss 100% his idea and no pressure from anyone else.


in other words, a woman's actions should convince you "damn.. i can't lose this woman i want her to be a part of my life" and this has to be 100% on you with no outside influences. You have to say damn.. you know if i were drawing up the perfect wife, she's it.


anytime a woman has to ask you to marry her, it's like a guy asking a girl is she attracted to him. if you have to ask, you aren't worthy. she hasn't done enough for you to get the idea yourself to want to lock her down.

i dated my wife for almost 3 yeras before asking her to marry me and not once did she ever put my feet to the fire about the issue. I mean, we talked about it, she's a woman of course she wanted it but she made it clear it wasn't worht losing me over in her eyes if i didn't want it, none of my other actions didn't do anything to indicate i was half way out the door. i asked her to marry me beucase i wanted to marry her. i want to spend the rest of my life with my wife. nothign would make me happier in that regard. that might change, but that's how i felt and that's how i feel.

you don't feel like that. you feel liek you will lose a girl if you don't take the level to the next step. what i am saying is, if she was worth taking to the next step youw ould have done so already.

 

[Down Low]

I have a pretty good chic with some old fashion values that I would like to hang onto. . . . She is in her 30's and never married... I don't want kids and neither does she. She already had one who is pretty much grown up so the kid thing is a non issue.

You're so full of sh1t you stink.

Go ahead. Get mad. I don't care. It'll be good for you. You need a good hard kick in the pants to get you riled up and thinking about how to defend yourself.

Old-fashioned values? Dude, she's a slvt who got knocked up by some player back when she was young and pretty. Now she's at the very end of her fertile years -- and desperate. She now has zero marriage market value. What kind of idiot marries a woman with zero wife value?

She doesn't want kids? Dude, she can't have kids anymore. Besides, she already had another man's kid long ago, has gone through parenting, and doesn't give a sh1t anymore. It's you who is still young, can be a first-time father, and has plenty of time to make a passel of kids.

And I'm just going to ignore as stupid as fvck the idea that she doesn't want to cash in on you and go her own way as soon as her bastard kid turns 18 and can be thrown out. She's thinking about her future. Are you?

She wants you to do the right thing? OK. Dump her. Get rid of the middle-aged hag and trade up for an actual, here-and-now, young and pretty, old-fashioned girl that this one only pretends that she used to be. Dammit man! Can't you see that she's threatening to dump you and get another fool if you don't bend over and take it up the azz now? She dares to do that because she has other men in mind -- she's already stroking them and lining them up. Start spinning plates yourself.

Jesus fvcking Christ! You're young! She's way too old and way too experienced for you.

EDIT: BTW, stop bragging about being a slvt-wh0re. It's unbecoming. Besides, no way no how any man has a tenth of the self-humiliation of modern women who opened every orifice to diseased goo from strangers, and whose bodies responded by flowing pus for months.

 

[HeMan]

my ex had very similar qualities to your girlfriend..
she kept hasseling me to marry her and it was very stressful time as i really loved her but was worried to marry her because things about her behaviour worried me
she was EXTREMELY dependent and i guess very controlling. she kept threatening me about moving back to her home country everytime we had an argument
eventually after a big fight i told her i would not marry her and she flipped and trashed my office
be careful, sounds like your girlfriend has some deep issues that will not go away with marriage

 

[scrouds]

This shhit makes me think of this
http://www.quickmeme.com/Overly-Attached-Girlfriend/

Enjoy!

 

[JulieWatson31]

I wish that I have never got married but she was yapping and 'dripping like a tap' each and every day pushing me into it after she had just moved into my property with no assets of her own.

Nobody can take torture like that so I finally said OK.

I was AFC and dominated and should have just said no. She took money and assets etc and abused me for a long time.

Thank God (literally) for forums like this as now I have changed my whole mentality.

You will deeply regret it. 100%.

 

[kimberleah]

My ltr of 1.5years has been pushing the marriage agenda the past several months. She is in her 30's and never married so she still believes in the fairy tale. She doesn't want any big expensive ceremony or fancy diamond ring.

She knows I'm not big on marriage but I'm not against it. Anytime there is an argument, the marriage thing comes up. I've told her I am willing, but just not right now. Then she throws the I don't love her crap at me and I don't give her the affection she wants.

It has come to the point that even if we were married I'm not sure she would be happy. Since marriage wasn't my idea and she is the one pursueing it then any attempt I would make would be invalid. I can't win.

She sent me this song by Brandy.
"Almost Doesn't Count"


Almost made you love me
Almost made you cry
Almost made you happy, baby
Didn't I didn't I
You almost had me thinkin'
You were turned around
But everybody knows
Almost doesn't count

Almost heard you saying
You were finally free
What was always missing for you, baby
You'd found it in me
But you can't get to heaven
Half off the ground
Everybody knows
Almost doesn't count

I can't keep on lovin' you
One foot outside the door
I hear a funny hesitation
Of a heart that's never really sure
Can't keep on tryin'
If you're looking for more
Than all that I could give you
Than what you came here for

Gonna find me somebody
Not afraid to let go
Want a no doubt be there kind of man
You came real close
But everytime you built me up
You only let me down
And everybody knows
Almost doesn't count

Maybe you'll be sorry
Maybe you'll be cold
Maybe you'll come runnin' back, baby
From the cruel cruel world
Almost convince me
You're gonna stick around
But everybody knows
Almost doesn't count

So maybe I'll be here
Maybe I'll see ya around
That's the way it goes
Almost doesn't count


Do I stay in this or bail? Its like if things aren't on her terms she gets upset. I've told her that I'm not going to string her along just to keep her. I'm not that kind of person. She just doesn't have faith I suppose. She's made a bunch of sacrifices to be with me but those were all her choice. Yet I get to hear how she gave up so much and I gave up nothing.

Deep down I think I know what to do, but I just hate to throw away a pretty solid girl. Maybe she's not as solid as I think.....

The whole reason I'm not rushing into marriage is because I'm a rational and methodical thinker. I want to be convinced that its with out a doubt the right thing to do for both of us. She's a typical woman(irrational and emotional) so you can't count on her to make the right choices. I'm not interested in another failed marriage.

If I'm good enough to have then why am I not good enough to wait on?

See women have this thing called a biological clock. After your mid 30's, your fertility drastically drops down.
I am sure shes picking up on the fact that youre exploiting her. You dont plan on getting married. No man wants to get married- men are just forced to. BUT- you dont want to be alone. You want to feed her breadcrumbs here and there to shut her up so she doesnt leave you (heaven forbid, a woman you clearly dont value wanting to leave you) but you dont want to marry her.

Honestly, shes right. If she is not good enough for you now, she will NEVER be good enough for you period. So thats the reverse question to your ending question.

Men always have stuff to ***** about- I dont know where this women are the *****y ones myth came from. The same is true for men- no matter what you do...its not enough.

 

[The Duke]

kimberleah- like a true woman.....you choose to hear what you want to hear!

Reread what I have written and you will see. Then make something else up!

 

[kimberleah]

kimberleah- like a true woman.....you choose to hear what you want to hear!

Reread what I have written and you will see. Then make something else up!

If you sounded like a man simply hesistant to get married I wouldnt write that. But the way you describe yourself- it does not sound like that. However, I do not know you in real life and I can only go off of what you wrote.

1% of the male population ever truly wants to get married. What guy would willingly give up his freedom and ability to sleep with other women? If marriages were open for men (which means the guy can sleep around but the woman cant) perhaps more would jump on ship because alot of men dont want to be alone for the rest of their life yet want to sleep around. However, in our country with the way it is set up...Society forces men to get married that is why it happens. Any guy who says he really wants to get married is lying to himself...which is why I will never act like your girlfriend and why I will never get married in the first place.

 

[Epimanes]

However, in our country with the way it is set up...Society forces men to get married that is why it happens. Any guy who says he really wants to get married is lying to himself...which is why I will never act like your girlfriend and why I will never get married in the first place.

Kimber... you are in fact wrong. Just thought I would point that out in case you didnt know it already.

 

[betheman]

1% of the male population ever truly wants to get married.

sauce please?

 

[kimberleah]

Vatoloco and Aristippus- you guys are dead on. The reasons she wants to be married are:

1. not be a social [unmarried] pariah in front of her social circle (family, friends, etc.)

She has gone so many years unmarried that society thinks something is wrong with her which isn't the case. There's been a few ask her for marriage and she said no because the timing wasn't right or they weren't the right guy. She's been pretty selective which I give her props for. It bothers her to show up at family functions and having to say "this is my boyfriend". She's reached a point in her life she wants more. I can understand why this would bother a woman.

3. Many women simply think that marriage means commitment and that their fears of being alone will be gone once a man commits THROUGH MARRIAGE. That the traditional marriage IS THE ONLY ACCEPTABLE MEANS THROUGH WHICH A MAN WILL COMMIT TO HER and therefore, IS THE ONLY MEANS THROUGH WHICH SHE IS GUARANTEED PROTECTION FROM THE POSSIBILITY OF LONELINESS AND ABANDONMENT IN THE FUTURE.

#3 is exactly what she thinks. She's a dependent personality type and abandonment is one thing those types fear. I've tried to argue that "marriage" doesn't guarantee protection from future abandonment(divorce). But as we know, women see things on the surface and don't look much further. This fear generates so much anxiety in her that it causes problems in our relationship.

She gets upset and acts out because I am not exactly ready to be married, yet I stay away from the marriage route because of her negative actions. She can't keep her fears and anxiety at bay long enough to convince me marriage would be the right path to go. Its like gridlock! I've explained the issue to her and she understands it but her emotions tend to get the best of her and she loses all rational reasoning.

I am a woman and I throughly agree with this. If women knew what was good for them theyd never get married. This is the 21st century. We do not need your money anymore and we can get sex outside of a marriage without stigma. Men are really only good for occasional company and to bear children.

99% of men are this earth are way too selfish, shallow, emotionally immature to be with a woman for the rest of their life and not start treating her like **** or wanting to be with someone else for no reason at all.

I have a friend who is thinking about getting married and I just sent her an email with this link in it...I told her she needs to get inside the head of a guy (she thinks I am crazy for never wanting to get married...I am bookmarking this site for any girl who thinks a guy is marriage material)

 

[drak_ool]

Do I stay in this or bail? Its like if things aren't on her terms she gets upset.

Boom! you've answered your own question!

You know it yourself that if you marry this girl you better be ready to bow your head down in front of her until you either divorce or completely stop producing testosterone. And that's without mentioning how at her age her looks will rapidly decline, as well as the frequency of sex.

Now, by all means, if this scenario sounds appealing to you, go for it! But if you truly are a rational thinker, you might want to ponder this over one more time.

 

[Down Low]

Let's assume for the sake of argument that "Kim" isn't a fag troll.

A woman agrees that the OP should not get married.

A woman says that she, and all other women, are looking only for the richest, most handsome, most charismatic 1% of men. And that's all women -- not just the richest, most beautiful, most charming 1% of women. The broke-ass, fugly, dried-up, 55-year-old skanks with hep and HIV -- the most imperfect women -- all deserve only perfect men. In other words, a woman agrees that women have screwed-up expectations that are not based on the realities of their bad decisions and immoral behaviors.

A woman says that she can get sex outside of marriage. In other words, she agrees with what I posted here.

 

[The Duke]

ok back to the original topic..............got this email from my ltr.

Hi,

I just can't go on living like this anymore. We are on two totally different pages as far as what we are looking for in life. It truly saddens me that I have to leave. I just don't see any other way as long as you have your views about marriage/commitment/living arrangements/where to live/etc, and I have mine. I appreciate everything you have ever done for me. It's just not getting any better (I really thought yesterday that if I tried my hardest to put a little distance between us, it would help me not be so clingy and so pushy - honest to god that's what I was thinking and trying to do to help this situation - not to be mean or spiteful which I didn't think I was being?). But, you didn't want to give that any time as I guess you want your cake and eat it too - let me fall more and more into you, and love you deeper and deeper each day only for a maybe we'll be together and be committed, move, etc. I personally do not think that's fair to me at all. I should have known this would be the outcome last year when you looked right into my eyes and said you NEVER wanted marriage. But, I played the fool, and while I didn't show the most Faith in us or you I certainly held out and held up my hopes things would change ;-(( Things are only getting worse for us, b/c I have been going through almost a year of emotions over it all, and it started w/sadness, but the sadness is turning into anger now. If you really loved, and wanted to be w/me long-term we would be more serious by now (a year and a half into this relationship). I don't/won't be wasting another year holding onto that "Hope". I love you more than I have ever loved anyone, but I have done the shack up thing just as you have done the marriage thing. Difference for me was I saw something in you I never had quite felt before (something worth taking a risk for which I have never been willing to do!), and that was wanting more than the "shack up". But, you are content w/it, and you probably would be forever if I never had said anything about my true feelings. I'm really sorry I ever brought it up, but you have to understand (or try to at least), I was so happy, excited, and full of joy when I realized the level of love I felt for you, and yes, I got ahead of myself, but I don't feel that your heart has time-lines, and when you feel something, you let that person know (life is way too short not to!!!). People get married after a week, and some after 10 years, and I bet the 10 year waits have just if not more issues in the marriages than the week long courtships do (it's all about what's important to the two people and what's most important in their lives - not how long they wait to commit)!! I always said, and heard when you know, you just know....sucks that I know, and you still don't. That tells me we aren't right for one another which hurts the most. Bottom line is it took me a while, but I see now where I stand w/you, and how things w/you will be if I stay. That won't make me happy, and you one day caving in and marrying me, b/c it's just what I want won't make me happy either - what girl in her right mind would want to get a guy like that!!?? Not me, that's for sure -after I waited my entire adult life to feel it.

I haven't been myself for over a year now - you hurt me (not your fault, just how you feel), and when I get my feelings hurt, it never ends well). So, the only thing I can think to do is release you from this torture I am putting you through - in turn, I will stop hurting every single day having something dangling in front of me I now know I will never have.

I hurts like hell to think you would marry the type of person you did, and I'm sure you weren't w/the other girls you were with to just pass time - I'm sure you stayed w/them w/the thought of one day committing to them as well. But, I for some reason am just not good enough (?). What I have to remember is I'm not good enough for you....not every guy in the world (hard to see it now, but I know it's true)!!

I still love you, and will for a long time (you were for a while anyway MY cuteness - I just wasn't enough for you),

We've been together for 1.5yrs now and basically she is done because I'm not jumping on the marriage wagon soon enough for her wishes. I told her I would be down for marriage, just no time soon. Part of me thinks it would work with us, but the other part knows that anytime you let the female guide the ship you end up crashing like the Titanic. I just wish she would not have pushed the marriage thing.......it would have happened naturally soon enough. I am not one of these pussbags that keeps feeding a girl bs just to give her false hope.

I've always wondered why a woman will give up the best thing she ever had going just so she can be married on her terms?

Kind of sad, but I am not going to be pushed into marriage. She has a lot of great qualities but marriage is a huge risk for a man and there were a few things she needed to convince me of before I was certain enough to go down that road. Its almost like she wasn't willing to step up and proove it.